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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It takes a big man to admit he was wrong.

    I recommend denial. Never happened...
    Here are the questions I have: with all of the different forks and shocks you tried on the frame, what do you think? Seems like a great arena to have developed some pretty sophisticated thoughts on them.

  2. #52
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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    In the nearly immediate wake of the what may as well be the non-official "official" release of the Lunchbox PunkAss6, I invite you to take a trip back in time to when our beloved long-travel 29er chunk-schralping machines were as rare as unobtanium:

    Lenz Sport Behemoth

    I would say you would have a difficult time arguing the Lenz Behemoth was the bike that started it all.

    That thread is full of win - well, except for the lycra. Haha! I kid.....I've ridden with plenty of dudes clad in lycra that could put me to shame on the trail.

    ...back on topic, seems as though the Pike/Monarch or VA is the preferred optimal suss setup. ...I'll be building mine up with the 150 Pike, 51mm offset and a VA. If the VA turns out to be too much for me, I'll swap for a Monarch Plus.

    Brown Santa comes down the chimney tonight. A cold beer and a pile of jerky awaits.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    In the nearly immediate wake of the what may as well be the non-official "official" release of the Lunchbox PunkAss6, I invite you to take a trip back in time to when our beloved long-travel 29er chunk-schralping machines were as rare as unobtanium:

    Lenz Sport Behemoth

    I would say you would have a difficult time arguing the Lenz Behemoth was the bike that started it all.

    That thread is full of win - well, except for the lycra. Haha! I kid.....I've ridden with plenty of dudes clad in lycra that could put me to shame on the trail.

    ...back on topic, seems as though the Pike/Monarch or VA is the preferred optimal suss setup. ...I'll be building mine up with the 150 Pike, 51mm offset and a VA. If the VA turns out to be too much for me, I'll swap for a Monarch Plus.

    Brown Santa comes down the chimney tonight. A cold beer and a pile of jerky awaits.
    Would love to hear your comparison of the VA and Monarch Plus if you get a chance. Not a lot of Vivid Airs on 29ers out there.

  4. #54
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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Would love to hear your comparison of the VA and Monarch Plus if you get a chance. Not a lot of Vivid Airs on 29ers out there.
    I arrived at the decision of the VA on Mikesee's advice - I've ridden neither at this point; had the Fox CTD on my previous Lunchbox. Blew it out after 2 months, had it warrantied, no problems thereafter but I was never really blown away by its performance; it just worked.

    I'll be sure to post up impressions as soon as I get a ride in.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Mikesee chimed in with his thoughts as well.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Here are the questions I have: with all of the different forks and shocks you tried on the frame, what do you think? Seems like a great arena to have developed some pretty sophisticated thoughts on them.
    Happy to share my conclusions, but first you need to ask a more specific question. And please keep in mind that my answer is for me, where I live and ride, and that in no way am I suggesting that this bike (in any configuration) would be ideal for anyone else. Horses for courses and all that.

    Non-disclaimer answer:



    This is the way I've settled on riding it. I *liked* some of the other setups but not the way I *love* this one.

    Cheers,

    MC

  6. #56
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    Hawt!
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Nice looking bike. Is the lower BB the only option now or can you still get the 14" BB. I live in rocky/rooty terrain so I appreciate a higher BB.
    Colin's running a 150 fork with (relatively) small tires, and his BB is at 13.5". I've got a 160 fork with higher volume tires and mine sits at 13.8".

    The first proto had a ~14.15" BB, which is where I'd typically prefer it. I noticed, as did a few of the other testers, that with the tire tucked as tight to the BB as this one is, it was difficult to make pedal/ground contact in all of the 'usual spots'. We surmised that the shorter rear end allowed the rear tire to climb up/over the obstacle before your pedals or bash guard had a chance to get there. Clearly that won't/can't always be the case, but it was happening often enough that it felt right to drop the BB a titch to lower the CoG.

    Make sense?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Happy to share my conclusions, but first you need to ask a more specific question. And please keep in mind that my answer is for me, where I live and ride, and that in no way am I suggesting that this bike (in any configuration) would be ideal for anyone else. Horses for courses and all that.

    Non-disclaimer answer:



    This is the way I've settled on riding it. I *liked* some of the other setups but not the way I *love* this one.

    Cheers,

    MC
    That helps as a starting point. I'm assuming the Monarch Plus has a weight advantage with slight performance disadvantages relative to the Vivid Air or Coil? Am I totally wrong? I'm assuming the performance of the heavier shocks wasn't enough to offset the weight penalty? Did you ever try a CCDB(A) on it? Why go with the Pike over the modded Fox 36? Was it the out of the box compatibility, weight, awesome black stanchions, or is the Pike just a better fork altogether?

  9. #59
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    Now we've got a party!

    Mine is a large, I've ridden medium Lenz's before enough to know that I personally wanted a large. That being said, I don't have the chunk/steeps that Mike does so I like a little longer top tube. Plus he's pretty short I'm like a whole 2 1/4 inches taller, at least.

    I have mine set up with the 150mm Pike and M+ at the moment, although I might try the CCDBair again since I already have one. The M+ seems to be a good fit and match for the Pike.

  10. #60
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    So I'm definitely not getting one of these, but if I did, how long would I have to wait for it?

  11. #61
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    Mike could probably answer that more accurately, but I can guarantee you that it is worth the wait. I'm fairly confident in saying that there isn't another bike out there right now like this one since I've owned most of them (except the E29).

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Mike could probably answer that more accurately, but I can guarantee you that it is worth the wait. I'm fairly confident in saying that there isn't another bike out there right now like this one since I've owned most of them (except the E29).
    I have that funny feeling... a feeling you probably get about 6 times a year... that feeling when you see a bike and you realize it's inevitable. Maybe I should just wait until you are ready to sell yours :P

  13. #63
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    Just another comment on the bike: this is the first Lenz I've seen that I didn't think was fugly. In fact, it looks great. That raw finish does wonders. Was never a fan of the 1980s roller rink graphics.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    That helps as a starting point. I'm assuming the Monarch Plus has a weight advantage with slight performance disadvantages relative to the Vivid Air or Coil? Am I totally wrong? I'm assuming the performance of the heavier shocks wasn't enough to offset the weight penalty? Did you ever try a CCDB(A) on it? Why go with the Pike over the modded Fox 36? Was it the out of the box compatibility, weight, awesome black stanchions, or is the Pike just a better fork altogether?
    Can't say that I ever weighed the shocks, but when you factor in all around performance the M+ was/is the clear winner. If I was a shuttle monkey I might feel differently, likewise if this was a park-only bike, but for the all-day/everywhere way that I ride it, I greatly preferred the M+ over all the others mentioned. I ran both H and M tune M+'s, and could make either work. I prefer the H tune because (assuming similar/identical pressures) I sit a bit higher in the travel at any given point. No change in bottom out resistance or small bump sensitivity that I could feel.

    Pike feels worlds better than either air or coil 36's on small stuff, every bit as good on medium and large, is lighter, and has a rational and creak-free wheel removal system.

  15. #65
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    I'm with you on the raw finish. It definitely shoots it into badassery. Me sell a bike? NEVER!

    I always say it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

    Before Mike sent me that infamous teaser email back in the summer, I had resigned to the fact that I was gonna end up getting an Enduro29 even though I've never longed for a Specialized and really didn't want one. I wanted sub-17 inch stays, piggyback shock capabilities and long travel. Thankfully the "Shortbox" came along and saved me.

    I'd much rather hand over my $$$ to Devin than the Evil Empire and get a bike made in the States with a 150mm rearend. Plus it is nice having a bike that not everyone else has.

  16. #66
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    Here's another question: What is the 150mm wide, XX1 compatible rear hub of choice? Why not 157?

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Here's another question: What is the 150mm wide, XX1 compatible rear hub of choice? Why not 157?
    I've got DT 350's, 240's, and 440's laced in 150. Didn't see much (any?) added benefit to the 157's personally, so I stuck with 150. But Devin did ask/offer to do 157, so I'm sure it's on the table if you've got your heart set on it.

    Hope EVO's are currently available in 150 or 157 w/XX1 as well.

  18. #68
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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    Not implying it's the "hub of choice" but I run the Pro II EVO laced to a Salsa Gordo Mikesee built up for my previous Lunchbox.

    Has been great so far, no complaints, stiff and strong.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Frame weight was right around 7.6 lbs w/o shock, bike as pictured above with pedals, sealant etc etc is 29.5 lbs. Not an XC bike, but more than capable for anything you want to throw at it.

    I had a Mammoth, and with the 5 inch rockers on the Lunchbox, I can't tell much in the way of difference in pedaling efficiency. The frame weight difference is about 1.5 lbs between the frames.

    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.

    For me, not being a suspension tuning guru, I appreciate the simplicity of the Monarch plus. I'm sure the DBair would be sublime if I took the time to try and set it up properly.

    Not speaking for Devin, but I very much doubt the geo or numbers on the Mammoth will be changing. Very different bikes with very different design intent.

    My med frame with seat collar, shock hardware, but no shock is 6.8#.

    One more pic from the early days of sussing out this chassis:


  20. #70
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    I am digging this USA made bike!What is the wheelbase and standover on the medium size frame?How wide can we go on the tire size out back?Would be nice to have an optional rear with a little longer stays to fit the surly knard/dirt wizard tires.I am looking for a one bike quiver.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Now we've got a party!

    Mine is a large, I've ridden medium Lenz's before enough to know that I personally wanted a large. That being said, I don't have the chunk/steeps that Mike does so I like a little longer top tube. Plus he's pretty short I'm like a whole 2 1/4 inches taller, at least.

    I have mine set up with the 150mm Pike and M+ at the moment, although I might try the CCDBair again since I already have one. The M+ seems to be a good fit and match for the Pike.
    not pretending I know how tall MC is... so you're what, 6'1"-ish?

    most of the riding I'll be doing won't be the crazy steep/chunk like out west, but I have plenty of trails and places to go to get silly.

  22. #72
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    I'm 6ft ish.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Colin's running a 150 fork with (relatively) small tires, and his BB is at 13.5". I've got a 160 fork with higher volume tires and mine sits at 13.8".

    The first proto had a ~14.15" BB, which is where I'd typically prefer it. I noticed, as did a few of the other testers, that with the tire tucked as tight to the BB as this one is, it was difficult to make pedal/ground contact in all of the 'usual spots'. We surmised that the shorter rear end allowed the rear tire to climb up/over the obstacle before your pedals or bash guard had a chance to get there. Clearly that won't/can't always be the case, but it was happening often enough that it felt right to drop the BB a titch to lower the CoG.

    Make sense?
    I'm glad you put that in writing. When we see this in the Specialized literature next year as one of their "innovations" we'll know who the original author is. Too bad they have probably been in McLaren's wind tunnel testing their new Enduro seat post clamp to sell next years model.

    Back on topic

    Any downsides to chainstays this short for this type of bike? Skittish on the downs? Completely different bike for completely different terrain, but my Atlas made everything easier and much more fun compared to my Rip9 with none of the downside people say about short CS.

    Been looking for a bike for my Snowshoe, WV and WNC trips. Initially, I can't think of a box this bike doesn't check.

  24. #74
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    Mike can chime in as well, but I've found that the front end stays planted better on this one than other bikes I've ridden with over an inch longer stays. You have traction galore, planted front, etc. The only limiting factor is me.

    The only people claiming short stays aren't important are the people not riding 'em.

    I haven't found a downside at all thus far, except I don't have enough time to ride it.

    Downhill stability is improved due to the lower BB and the fact that your front/center is longer with your butt over the rear wheel. The WB is long enough to be stable, but the rear is so short it keeps it lively and maneuverable for everything else.

    It really does tick all the boxes. I'm very picky about ,well everything, and I can't think of one thing that I would want that this one doesn't have.
    Last edited by Colin+M; 10-22-2013 at 05:49 AM. Reason: proofreading fail

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    ...I can't think of a box this bike doesn't check.
    exactly what I said about 2 months and a few dollars ago.

    ;-)

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