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  1. #1
    Flight Junkie
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    Bar Sweep Question

    I'm going to get a Seven Ti bar made. I like my H-bars a lot and appreciate the hand positions they have. I'm building a FS and need a flat bar. What sweep would you get between 10-16 degrees? Also, if you get more sweep, like 14-16 degrees, do you need a wider bar (I generally use a 26" bar). Thanks
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  2. #2
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    This is all subjective.

    There is really no science to this, it is mostly subjective opinions and observations that have been made.
    The Specs:
    I just picked up a 17 degree Ti bar from Seven in a 680 length. I have been riding on my Long Haul Trucker commuter and really liking it. For road use with a rigid fork and higher tire pressures it could probably have a little more flex. When I ordered the bar I asked them to use a heavier wall tube to make it. so rather than a .035 wall, I asked for a .045. I wanted a wider bar, I weigh 200 lbs. and I wanted the bar to be stiffer than the H-Bar I had been riding.

    The ride:
    As I said the ride is stiff on the road with higher pressures. I am running it on a touring bike with IRC 42 cross tires and around 45 lbs of pressure. This makes for a fairly stiff ride compared to what a .035 walled tube would have ridden. Off-road, especially with a sus fork, I suspect the fork will ride pretty much like a 7075 aluminum bar with a 25.4 clamp, which is what I wanted.

    The Fit:
    Personally I feel that as a bar gets wider it lends itself to more bend. There is no hard formula, such as for every 20mm in width add a degree in bend. It is purely subjective. I have just noticed, as Jeff Jones did when developing his bar, that my hands, wrists, and arms are more comfortable with more bend. A good test for yourself is to take a broomstick and mark a center on it. Put your hands closer to the center. Observe how that feels in a riding position. Then move them further out. Notice the change?

    As a precursor to ordering a 150- ti bar you might try an aluminum one that is available. Such as a Salsa 11 degree, a Syntace, or a Bontrager. I'm sure there are others I'm not mentioning here.

  3. #3
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBIKEAZ
    I'm going to get a Seven Ti bar made. I like my H-bars a lot and appreciate the hand positions they have. I'm building a FS and need a flat bar. What sweep would you get between 10-16 degrees? Also, if you get more sweep, like 14-16 degrees, do you need a wider bar (I generally use a 26" bar). Thanks
    Why do you "need" a flat bar on the FS? If you like the Hbar use an Hbar.

    A bar with more sweep needs a longer stem. The width does not change. If anything you could use a narrower bar when going to more sweep (think Hbar).
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  4. #4
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    Depends on rider, but consider this...

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Why do you "need" a flat bar on the FS? If you like the Hbar use an Hbar.

    A bar with more sweep needs a longer stem. The width does not change. If anything you could use a narrower bar when going to more sweep (think Hbar).
    I think it depends on the rider, the positioning they like and ultimately the length of the riders arms.

    Try this. Put your arms straight out in front of you. Pretend you are putting your hands on a handlebar and the starting position is just outside where the stem clamps the bar. Now move them apart. As you move your hands apart, your arms pivot around your shoulder socket creating an arc. As you can see, as your arms move outward, the angle of your grip on the imaginary bar increases. So my theory is that riders would need greater sweep as your hands move further apart.

    I know this is stupid simple illustration that can be argued but I think it illustrates the point. I still think it depends on the rider.

    Oh and by the way, the bar that JMKM had Seven build is really, really nice.

    Jason

  5. #5
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Jason, I have another flat/riser bar question. Not to pick on Salsa specifically. Almost every company does it. Just that you are here and have been willing to talk openly.

    One of the reasons given for selecting a riser over a flat bar is risers are wider.

    Why don't you spec wider flat bars?

    They can be cut down as needed.

    Is it a marketing concern about weight?
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  6. #6
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    All good questions

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Jason, I have another flat/riser bar question. Not to pick on Salsa specifically. Almost every company does it. Just that you are here and have been willing to talk openly.

    One of the reasons given for selecting a riser over a flat bar is risers are wider.

    Why don't you spec wider flat bars?

    They can be cut down as needed.

    Is it a marketing concern about weight?
    Thanks for the mail Shig.

    While I don't claim to have all the answers, I do have some opinions on this. These are simply my opinions and observations. I'm sure others will have a different take.

    I think that wider flat bars will be brought to market quickly. Salsa already does 660mm. Others are going wider. We are testing wider. How wide? That depends.

    Think about the strength and weight required to make a bar durable enough if you do it in a 710mm width. 700+ is a long lever. In most cases, folks will be cutting that bar down. I say most, definitely not all. The folks that cuts them down, will then have a compromised ride quality because the cut down narrower bar has the wall thicknesses and strength to hold up at 710mm.

    The second reason is that until recently, their hasn't been a huge need. Riser bars with 26" bikes is the norm. With the growth of the 29" market where flat bars make a lot of sense, there is hope that the flat bar segment will grow. I know Salsa would love to offer ton's of flat bars, but we need to be reasonable about both the size and growth of the market. We are committed and doing it, but we aren't selling tons of them. Tooling and carbon molds aren't cheap so we need grow this segment of our offering strategically and carefully otherwise we'll be losing money and won't be able to do these fun 29" projects.

    Anyway, I'll do my best to continue to answer questions.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    Last edited by Salsa Cycles; 12-13-2005 at 08:23 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #7
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa Cycles
    Thanks for the mail Shig.

    While I don't claim to have all the answers, I do have some opinions on this. These are simply my opinions and observations. I'm sure others will have a different take.

    I think that wider flat bars will be brought to market quickly. Salsa already does 660mm. Others are going wider. We are testing wider. How wide? That depends.

    Think about the strength and weight required to make a bar durable enough if you do it in a 710mm width. 700+ is a long lever. In most cases, folks will be cutting that bar down. I say most, definitely not all. The folks that cuts them down, will then have a compromised ride quality because the cut down narrower bar has the wall thicknesses and strength to hold up at 710mm.

    The second reason is that until recently, their hasn't been a huge need. Riser bars with 26" bikes is the norm. With the growth of the 29" market where flat bars make a lot of sense, there is hope that the flat bar segment will grow. I know Salsa would love to offer ton's of flat bars, but we need to be reasonable about both the size and growth of the market. We are committed and doing it, but we aren't selling tons of them. Tooling and carbon molds aren't cheap so we need grow this segment of our offering strategically and carefully otherwise we'll be losing money and won't be able to do these fun 29" projects.

    Anyway, I'll do my best to continue to answer questions.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    Thanks, Jason. I appreciate your willingness to answer.

    Titec use to have the Flat Tracker alloy bar. Same width and sweep as their alloy riser and lighter. The "new" Titec has dropped most of the old designs though.
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