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  1. #1
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    Banshee Paradox 29er . . .

    Hey everyone I had a quick question and was looking for some peoples opinions on the Banshee Paradox frame. After seeing all the sweet build ups on here and doing a little research it seems like an awesome idea for me to put one together myself, however I live in FL and it seems that most of these builds are being done in the more northern (rocky and ruff terrain) states. I am aware that it is an AM frame but I have also seen it listed as an XC. I don't want to over due it but the frame looks like an extremely comfortable ride a little more laid back than some of the serious xc bikes I see all over the place down here and super durable. I'm not a racer so I don't need a cutting edge super light bike. I ride mainly at Santos, Alafia and Carter Road. I would appreciate any info I can get of people who are somewhat familiar with these riding spots, they're not what you would expect to find in FL. I like to ride aggressively, I like the dh trails that FL has to offer and I also like the steep challenging climbs . . . any info would be much appreciated !!! Thank you
    Last edited by dirtrider410; 03-07-2010 at 05:18 PM. Reason: mis named the frame

  2. #2
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    no idea what terrain is like down in FL. I ride in the mid-atlantic. Can't possibly say enough good things about this bike. Its simply the most well-balanced (from a geometry and weight bias standpoint) hardtail I've ever ridden. I wouldn't really say its a race bike, though I will race it a handful of times. I think its strengths lie in its ability to handle technical ups and downs both at super low rock crawl speed and wide open speed. you can pump it through turns, you can pop it off lips just as easy as any 26in bike- its just fun.

  3. #3
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    ^^^what he said^^^

  4. #4
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    thanx guys for the comments I pulled the trigger earlier today should have the frame in a little over a week

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider410
    Hey everyone I had a quick question and was looking for some peoples opinions on the Banshee Paradox frame. After seeing all the sweet build ups on here and doing a little research it seems like an awesome idea for me to put one together myself, however I live in FL and it seems that most of these builds are being done in the more northern (rocky and ruff terrain) states. I am aware that it is an AM frame but I have also seen it listed as an XC. I don't want to over due it but the frame looks like an extremely comfortable ride a little more laid back than some of the serious xc bikes I see all over the place down here and super durable. I'm not a racer so I don't need a cutting edge super light bike. I ride mainly at Santos, Alafia and Carter Road. I would appreciate any info I can get of people who are somewhat familiar with these riding spots, they're not what you would expect to find in FL. I like to ride aggressively, I like the dh trails that FL has to offer and I also like the steep challenging climbs . . . any info would be much appreciated !!! Thank you
    Alafia was my regular ride every weekend. Got me Sultan with that trail system in mind. Paradox will be perfect there. I have seen several other SS 29er riders there, including a Niner or two and at least one Redline.

    When I build up my 29er SS, I will have to bring it down there for a ride.
    Crunchy. Even in mud.

  6. #6
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    I know the Paradox has busted onto the 29er scene as an "extreme" AM rig, but coming from a history of 26er AM hardtails it is right on the mark. I think I am aligned with your preference for a trail friendly bike, not an overbuilt beast. The Paradox won't disappoint. I think the biggest thing it has done to 29ers is to show that they can indeed handle aggressively. But IMO it handles very well despite the numbers on paper. I have not ridden another 29er that would manual, be light in the front end, and yet still climb well. For a 1st effort Banshee really knocked it out the park

    Post up once you have it built
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    For a 1st effort Banshee really knocked it out the park

    Post up once you have it built
    They sure the ---- did...............CF.

  8. #8
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    Do any Paradox owners find the BB height a bit low with all that travel?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal_jack
    Do any Paradox owners find the BB height a bit low with all that travel?
    No, I am not getting nearly as many pedal strikes as I do on my Heckler (a 13.5in bb ht). If you are in the saddle the bike has a fairly rearward weight distro, so the fork doesn't sag much. Maybe if you were out of the saddle doing a 1x9 it could be an issue, but I haven't found that to be an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  10. #10
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    I come from a racing background (light bikes with steep angles). I no longer race as it's too expensive and all day rides with your crew is where it's at for me. After getting my Paradox, my perspective on bike geometry (on paper that is) has completely changed. The Paradox does it all and plain ole' rips. I love it for the New England trails I ride. I have no idea what FL trails have to offer.

  11. #11
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    man I can't wait to get this thing going I have heard so many good things about this frame, there are some spots here in FL that would really suprise somebody for up north IE santos or alafia or carter road. I know it suprised me, can't wait to get this built and get off my 26er

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the feedback AL29er, I get plenty of pedal strikes on my IH 7p3 and that's just north of 14" static, so hopefully I would have similar results. Probably get less pedal strikes with my GT Peace but of course rigid with about 12+" BB height. Might just drop the hammer on this one, been looking at the Dillinger also, and lately Siren Trauco.

    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    No, I am not getting nearly as many pedal strikes as I do on my Heckler (a 13.5in bb ht). If you are in the saddle the bike has a fairly rearward weight distro, so the fork doesn't sag much. Maybe if you were out of the saddle doing a 1x9 it could be an issue, but I haven't found that to be an issue.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    I think the biggest thing it has done to 29ers is to show that they can indeed handle aggressively. But IMO it handles very well despite the numbers on paper. I have not ridden another 29er that would manual, be light in the front end, and yet still climb well. For a 1st effort Banshee really knocked it out the park
    Just curious here: How many other 29" hardtails have you ridden?

    I just ask because the Karate Monkeys I have ridden have been great handling rigs, and I don't find the numbers on the Paradox to be far off the Monkey with the wheel all the way forward (assuming a 120mm fork).

    They have been out for more than five years.

    My point being that sweet handling 29" rigs have been out for a while, Banshee did not invent anything here. They just listened to what riders wanted and put the time in to get it right on their first try. Not to say the Paradox is not sweet, I think it is.

    It is easy to crank out 29" frames with 17.3" chainstays...not so much when you get to the 16.9" range.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  14. #14
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    Fair points there Eman
    This is only the second 29er HT that I have owned. I have thrown a leg over or done demo rides on half a dozen others. Obviously limited experience there. I have owned about 20 different variations of 26er hardtails though in everything from Ti XC race frames and single speeds to AM hardtails like the Surly Instigator, SC Chameleon, and Specialized Enduro HT.

    I have ridden a KM with 100mm fork on it and have owned 2 1X1 rigs (1 rigid, 1 w/ 100mm MX pro fork). Surly makes a fine trail bike, but the only one that handles well with a long fork IME is the Instigator. Yes, the KM with a longer fork can be ridden. But personally even with the 100mm fork it felt like driving a bus.

    I am not saying you can't bolt a 120mm RS Reba onto other 29er frames. You can. But they won't handle like a frame that was designed around it. Least that is my experience. The BB gets too high. The front steering gets sloppy. Overall it is more of a bear to ride. But some people will suffer through it and maybe even come to appreciate the handling. To each their own.

    There was a good thread not too long ago on a SC Dillinger vs. a Niner EMD with respect to running a 100-110mm fork. My vote was for the Dillinger as it is designed with 100mm in mind, but can run more if desired. Where the Niner was designed around 80mm, but can run more if desired. For tight and twisty single track trails I tend to find that keeping a bike at close to the designed geometry yields the best handling.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider410
    thanx guys for the comments I pulled the trigger earlier today should have the frame in a little over a week
    wow
    glad to hear it man. post pics of it when you receive it ya.
    i'm new to bike riding. but imma learn every bits from mtbr.com!! Montana Rider
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  16. #16
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    The reason thar there is a reaction like this is a simple reason. Surly is more known in the freak aspect of the cycling world. The place where singlespeeder and such exist.

    Banshee is a company that is from the other end of the spectrum. A company that builds bike that are built to be ridden hard and literally beat the shite out of.
    www.teamnfi.blogspot.com



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  17. #17
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    Enduramil, not sure exactly where you are coming in on. But, yes, I agree that Surly has carved out a good niche for itself. That niche is mostly trail bikes, single speeds, and purpose built rigs. The instigator is IMO the only rig in the lineup that walks the line to AM duty. Of course it weighs as much as a FS frame
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enduramil
    The reason thar there is a reaction like this is a simple reason. Surly is more known in the freak aspect of the cycling world. The place where singlespeeder and such exist.

    Banshee is a company that is from the other end of the spectrum. A company that builds bike that are built to be ridden hard and literally beat the shite out of.
    I hear where you are coming from, and I think Banshee has really given affordable wings to the "All Mountain" 29" hardtail...whatever that is. Although I seriously doubt that folks are really riding them all that differently from their current "ride it everywhere" rigs.

    Anyhoo...with the demise of the Canfield SS frame, I will likely be ordering a Paradox in the near future, and figuring a way to run it SS with a tensioner.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  19. #19
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    I'll throw in a bit of experience here.
    I've ridden 1st gen Rig, a Niner Sir9, a Spot 29er SS, a Vassago Jabber, and now the Banshee. I have run the 1st gen reba's, fox 100, WB fluid 130, and now the Reba Team 120 TA. I've run the reba 120 on the niner, the jabber, and now the banshee.
    The niner and vassago felt like they had more travel with the 120 fork than the fox 100, but I would not say really rode better (in fact the front pushed a bit too much on the sir9).

    You know what rode really really really well? My old Spot 29er. It was sold as a non-suspension corrected 29er frame. Well, I ran a 1st gen Reba on there at 100 (with the old offset which made the bike even more sluggish). Slacked the bike out a ton. Head tube angle was 67.5. BB height was 13. How did it ride? It was the most amazing descending bike I've been on at that time. Simply amazing. super slack front and the high BB made it incredible easy to throw around at high speed. It was like a bulldozer. If more people rode this bike, they'd would have stopped thinking that 29ers needed steep head angles in the beginning. What was the negative? it was an early frame and had really poor clearance in the rear for anything bigger than a 2.1 and the stand-over with the taller fork was a problem for my short legs. So I sold it. Still miss how incredibly fast it was on the technical DH's. Other negatives, well, in slow speed technical terrain, it was more of a full body workout to get up, over, and around ledgy stuff.

    So now the Banshee - I feel like the geometry of the bike just works for a 120 fork. Its got a ton of the stability of the slacked out Spot (since the BB is lower), but the shorter rear makes it a joy to play with in slow technical sections. Is the BB a bit low? I'd say its the only drawback - but hey - that low BB has just made me time my pedals a bit more and it so much fun to rail around corners. Its very rocky around here and its been something I pay attention to, but don't really see as a negative. For how well it climbs stupid crazy steep chutes without popping up the front wheel, its insane how well easy it is to feather the front end over bigger rocks on the way down. You ca literally wheelie through switchbacks on this thing. As I said above, this is by far the most fun hardtail I've ever been on period.

    Geometry accounts for a lot - is it suspension? no of course not - but the way a bike sets up your weight distribution can make or break the "feel" of a bike. I feel MUCH more confident on technical DH's on this frame than I have on dual suspension 29ers (which in comparison have steeper HTA's and shorter front-centers (BB to front wheel axle measure) - Banshee nailed - and I mean nailed it.

  20. #20
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    Enel - I just ordered one of the forward components EBB's for mine since I want to run it SS as well - waiting on it to come in any day.

    do a search for it - you'll find some info

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayoutside
    Enel - I just ordered one of the forward components EBB's for mine since I want to run it SS as well - waiting on it to come in any day.

    do a search for it - you'll find some info
    Sweet. Thanks for the tip.

    Link:
    http://forwardcomponents.blogspot.co...et-patent.html
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Meh, machining down a $XXX frame for $XX in labor to install a $150 BB that accepts limited crank options seems like a solution seeking a problem. W3rd.
    Professional Amateur. Disagree? Submit your grievances here.

  23. #23
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    Can I interrupt this thread for a second?

    I ordered a Banshee but now On-One announces a Ti 29er AM hardtail with swappable drop outs. What?

    What do I do, sell the frame and wait for the release or just keep the bike that people are raving about now???? Man, I hate bikes.....
    Last edited by jjcools; 03-12-2010 at 08:14 AM.
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

    www.cyclng.com

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Meh, machining down a $XXX frame for $XX in labor to install a $150 BB that accepts limited crank options seems like a solution seeking a problem. W3rd.
    Is the Banshee 73mm BB shell?
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Is the Banshee 73mm BB shell?
    Yep


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