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  1. #1
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    Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?

    Civilian appears to have been acquired by, and become the house brand of, Competitive Cyclist/Backcountry.com. Civilian has some interesting bikes on their site (and on CC), but I'm really intrigued by the Luddite. <http://www.ridecvln.com/bikes/luddite/>

    The Luddite is a steel frame SS that can also be run with gears. Because it has an oversized headtube (and takes a tapered fork), the closest bike on the market is the Salsa El Mar.

    Weight is not listed for the Luddite, and I haven't seen any reviews or other information about them. I'm not even sure this bike is available to ship yet. Hoping somebody has seen one or ridden one or has some more info.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    I too am interested in more about this brand, I haven't been able to find much...

  3. #3
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    Linky here:

    2012 Civilian Luddite - Competitive Cyclist

    Looks nice, comes stock with a carbon fork. But the msrp is steep for what you get though. I can only figure that they do an immediate "sale price"

  4. #4
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    Mountain - Civilian - Civilian
    It does seem steep for a SS with mechanical brakes.
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  5. #5
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    I think CC has the chance to deliver some real value in the Civilian bikes, as Civilian is now essentially a direct-to-consumer bike line manufactured and sold by a large, knowledgeable player in the online bike market (Backcountry.com/Competitive Cyclist), much like Salsa Bikes are owned and sold by QBP.

    I'd love to build a Ti Selma, but am still struggling to justify the expense. In addition to the cost of the frame itself, I know the costs would spiral with the "might-as-well's" of the build. Instead, I am looking at buying a complete Salsa El Mar 2, building up an El Mar frame with mid-priced parts, or buying a Civilian Luddite and adding a nice Reba fork with 15mmTA, tapered steerer, and remote lock out.

    The Salsa bikes are a known commodity, but the Luddite looks great, and I know the guys at CC wouldn't make the misstep of offering a clunky bike for the launch of their house brand. But sadly, Civilian has not responded to an email I sent over the weekend, requesting more information about the bike and its weight.

    If anyone has ridden the Civilian hard-tail (the Luddite or Young Turk), please let me know what you think about this bike.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    Yes, I saw the site. It's nice but I couldn't find the weight. Did you find it?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Yes, I saw the site. It's nice but I couldn't find the weight. Did you find it?
    Their configurator page lists it around the 20# range.

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Luddite
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    Their configurator page lists it around the 20# range.

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Luddite
    Thanks. Looks like the XL would be 20.6lbs. Not bad for a steel bike, especially in the $1000 range. I talked to CC and they said the carbon fork is approx 500g, so adding a suspension fork would only add two lbs to the complete bike. For those who may be interested, the WTB wheels weigh approx 1900g, which isn't much heavier than my Stans Flows, and certainly far lighter than the stock wheels that came on my Monocog Flight.

    The Luddite is looking like a bargain for a mid-level bike steel bike, assuming it rides well.

  9. #9
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    Thanks to Gofannon, I found that once you select the frame color and size on the CC website, it takes you to a page listing all of the individual parts on the bike and their respective weights. Looking at this page, it would be easy to shave a pound off this bike to offset the addition of a suspension fork.

    I may be alone in this preference, but I'd rather have good mechanical disc brakes (such as the BB7's) over entry level avid hydros any day of the week. Doubly so on an SS XC bike.

    And considering the parts and weight of this bike, I don't think the msrp is steep. Assuming the ride is as good, it compares quite favorably to the Kona Unit and the Monocog Flight, which are both heavier bikes.

    Finally, if anyone has a suggestion for a reasonably priced and spec'ed lightweight SS which doesn't use an EBB, please let me know. Thanks.

  10. #10
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    I think the weight is only for the kit-everything but the frame so you are looking at another 5 lbs. or so but still no biggy.
    A 20# complete just doesn't sound right
    I could be wrong though. It is nice the Turk one comes with a Reba and the option to SS still. But purchasing a closeout Monocog or similar and a Reba and you are in the same range of quality and value for less money, sans sliding dropouts

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmmorath View Post
    I think the weight is only for the kit-everything but the frame so you are looking at another 5 lbs. or so but still no biggy.
    A 20# complete just doesn't sound right
    I could be wrong though. It is nice the Turk one comes with a Reba and the option to SS still. But purchasing a closeout Monocog or similar and a Reba and you are in the same range of quality and value for less money, sans sliding dropouts
    I think it's for the complete bike because other bikes show pretty standard weights.
    Me. The chosen one. They chose me. And I didn't even graduate from fu**ing high school.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Thanks. Looks like the XL would be 20.6lbs. Not bad for a steel bike, especially in the $1000 range. I talked to CC and they said the carbon fork is approx 500g, so adding a suspension fork would only add two lbs to the complete bike. For those who may be interested, the WTB wheels weigh approx 1900g, which isn't much heavier than my Stans Flows, and certainly far lighter than the stock wheels that came on my Monocog Flight.

    The Luddite is looking like a bargain for a mid-level bike steel bike, assuming it rides well.
    There is no chance that bike complete weighs 20lbs. You've got to add the weight of the frame to the weight of the kit. I'd bet that frame is every bit of 5.7-6lbs.

    Hell, there's a half pound of seatpost that's mis-listed, too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneBadWagon View Post
    There is no chance that bike complete weighs 20lbs. You've got to add the weight of the frame to the weight of the kit. I'd bet that frame is every bit of 5.7-6lbs.
    Agreed. I suspect the bike weighs at least 25lbs.

  14. #14
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    It does have a carbon rigid fork, I would think around 23-24 pounds
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    It does have a carbon rigid fork, I would think around 23-24 pounds
    With those parts? No chance. It says the build kit is 20.6 lbs, so add youre at 26ish. That is not a light kit at all.

  16. #16
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    I think the steel fork on my Monocog Flight weighed about 2 or 3 lbs, which was lighter than I expected at the time I removed it. The carbon fork on the Luddite has a claimed weight 500g (about 1.1lbs), which only eliminates a pound or two off a steel fork. The balance of the components on the Luddite appear to be no lighter than the spec'ed parts on the Monocog Flight, the Kona Unit, or the Salsa El Mar, and in many instances, the Luddite parts are heavier. And while some steel frames are lighter than others, a double butted steel frame in any given size has some minimum weight, and in an XL mass-produced frame, it's probably 5lbs.

    Given there is no magic steel frame, and no flyweight parts listed in the kit, I suspect the Civilian Luddite (and geared Young Turk) weighs within a pound or two of the Unit, Monocog Flight, and Salsa El Mar.

    If the Luddite had a the Reba RL fork at the $1,100 price, it would be a bargain (and unique in the market as a steel SS complete bike with a good suspension fork). But as it stands, it is simply another rigid SS bike with a build kit and weight comparable to the other bikes listed above. I suppose the carbon fork distinguishes it, but I'm too old for a fully rigid bike.

    While the Luddite may be a great bike and an equal value to its competition, I'd rather buy the known El Mar or MC Flight for the same price until the jury is in on the Luddite.

    All that said, if the XL Luddite is, in fact, only 20lbs, I'll buy one and try it.

  17. #17
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    Well, it looks like I may be buying a Luddite.

    Assuming the claimed weight of the kit is correct on Competitive Cyclist, and adding 289g for a 410mm Thomson seatpost (and subtracting the 23g seat post error on the CC site), the total kit has a claimed weight of 7,554g or 16.65 lbs. Add a 5 pound steel frame, and you're still under 22lbs.

    If anybody finds an error in my math or a missing part that should be added to the kit weight, let me know.

    Obviously, a bike on the scale gives its true weight, but the Luddite may be back in the running for me.

  18. #18
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    Here's a better link to the parts list.
    Luddite - Civilian - Civilian

    Here's a link to the listed 85g bottom bracket.
    It's an ounce heavier on their own site.
    2012 SRAM GXP Team Bottom Bracket - Competitive Cyclist

    According to a different site, the cranks are 2 ounces heavier than listed.
    Truvativ CSBB 07 Firex 1.1G 33T 175 Blk Truvativ Cranksets Mountain

    Nevegal listed weight 720g
    According to their own site, 820g.
    2012 Kenda Nevegal DTC 29 Tire - Competitive Cyclist

    This is speculation, but it's listed as a WTB XC wheelset. WTB Speed Disc rims are 550g each, so with hubs/spokes/nipples you're looking at :
    1100g rims
    410g rear hub QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts - Detailed info for QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts,bike hub,QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts, on Alibaba.com
    250g front hub QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub - Detailed info for QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub,front bicycle hub,QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub, on Alibaba.com
    70g nipples
    444g 64 dt swiss 2.0g nipples

    I don't see how that wheelset is less than 2300g.

    Buy it, they apparently have a good return policy. I'd love to see a cheap 22-23lb SS bike on the market.

  19. #19
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    I just went to the Salsa website to look at the El Mar for comparison. Kudos to Salsa for listing the weights of their complete bikes in each frame size! Wish all manufacturers would list weights.

  20. #20
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    I'm just curious why the hell a bike called the Luddite comes with a carbon fork and tapered compatibility...
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I'm just curious why the hell a bike called the Luddite comes with a carbon fork and tapered compatibility...
    Funny. My guess is that the name is a nod to the frame material, lack of gears, and lack of suspension.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    I think it's for the complete bike because other bikes show pretty standard weights.
    If you add up all of the component weights on the young turk model, total component weight comes to 20.00 lb. The "kit totals" weight read 23.99 lb. So, i assume the difference is the steel frame (3.99 lb).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnseltz View Post
    If you add up all of the component weights on the young turk model, total component weight comes to 20.00 lb. The "kit totals" weight read 23.99 lb. So, i assume the difference is the steel frame (3.99 lb).
    < 4 lbs. steel frame?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  24. #24
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    I guarantee this bike is at least 25 lbs or so...you guys thinking the bike is only 20 lbs are out of your mind.

  25. #25
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    Has anyone taken deliver for this 20lb wonderbike that defies math yet?

  26. #26
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    Let's just say for instance not all of us here care to bolt a digital scale to our garage rafters. Has anyone taken delivery on a Luddite or a Young Turk? I am interested in how well it handles / rides / sprints / climbs / takes downhill, etc, with as-spec'ed components (of which we can all find separate reviews for here on MTBR). More specifically the Young Turk, but I'll gladly take feedback on the Luddite.

  27. #27
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    there have been a few other posts about this (one started by me) if you do a little digging u might find some needed info hope i could help

  28. #28
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    Hey folks! I've been riding the Luddite for a few weeks now, I'm reviewing it for Singletracks. There will be an On-Test article go up on the site soon, then the final review a few weeks later. The On-Test article has been written and sitting waiting it's turn to get posted for a few weeks, but a bunch of other articles were in line in front of it. It's coming soon though.

    I'll give you a few teasers. It is NOT a 20lbs bike. Mine, size large, weighed 26.6lbs pimp stock out of the box, without pedals. That's using a Feedback Sports digital hanging scale - it is accurate. The carbon fork is pretty sweet. It's a fun bike. You'll have to wait for the rest, sorry. I'll post the links whenever the articles go up.




  29. #29
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    Waiting on that final review....
    HucknRoll has these on sale for $785 shipped. I might just bite the bullet and pick one up.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    Waiting on that final review....
    HucknRoll has these on sale for $785 shipped. I might just bite the bullet and pick one up.
    Anybody else try one out? I also saw this and it seems like a good deal. Thoughts?

  31. #31
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    Can I assume that the Luddite is suspension corrected for a 100mm fork?? I like this bike!
    I love 'Murica!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by djm271@bellsouth.net View Post
    Can I assume that the Luddite is suspension corrected for a 100mm fork?? I like this bike!
    Yep it is. Now, where's that review while there on sale?

  33. #33
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    I did it. I bought it today. I was planning on building up a sir 9, but this is a cheap way to get into SS for now. First order of business is a stock set of ztr arches, a light(er) set of tires, and tubless. That should drop a pound or two easy. I'll post up when I get it put together.
    Last edited by Possum Jones; 06-16-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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  34. #34
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    Does the Huck & Roll sale price include shipping? I was/am planning on building an El Mar or a Selma, but at this price (plus the cost of a cheap rockshox fork), the Luddite may be worth the gamble.

  35. #35
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    Free shipping and no tax unless you live in Utah or Arkansas.
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  36. #36
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    On sale and comes with a free jersey too.

  37. #37
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    I think I might get one. The wife gave me permission to get a bike off of Craigslist/eBay for neighborhood use. I would have to use the secret credit card and get it dirty quick to convince her it is used.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I think I might get one. The wife gave me permission to get a bike off of Craigslist/eBay for neighborhood use. I would have to use the secret credit card and get it dirty quick to convince her it is used.
    I like your style. Report back.

  39. #39
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    I got the geared version - Young Turk a couple weeks ago and am still adjusting to the big wheels. I think it's a lot of bike for the money, other thoughts:

    * Heavy, no exact # yet, doesn't really affect my riding
    * nicely spec'd parts & it fits me well
    * Biggest disappointment is the fork, advertised as 15mm maxle but really a QR - called and *****ed a bit & was credited $100
    * Coming off an older FSR, thrilled to be on a new ride but I can't shake the absent thru axle. Reba is great, do not notice flex on the trail but laterally flexes by hand a bit.
    *I have 5 more weeks to send back if I choose, but most likely will keep it. I do see they have El Mar.s 3's in stock and the future availability of replacement dropouts makes me wonder about Civilian brand

  40. #40
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    For the guys with one of these or the Young Turk, does the rear brake caliper slide with the rear wheel? It looks that way. I have track ends on a bike now and this looks better.

  41. #41
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    Yes, the caliper mounts to the sliding dropout. I need to find out the availability of dropouts in case I tweak a derailleur hanger.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaugbrad View Post
    Yes, the caliper mounts to the sliding dropout. I need to find out the availability of dropouts in case I tweak a derailleur hanger.
    Thanks. Are these sliders specific to each builder? If the company is owned by Backcountry, than they'd be good on warrantees, no?

    Also, has a anybody seen the range of chainstay lengths? They list 17.5, but with sliders it will change. The Salsa El Mar gets a little on the long side when sliding out (18+).
    Last edited by SS Hack; 06-17-2012 at 03:00 PM.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Thanks. Are these sliders specific to each builder? If the company is owned by Backcountry, than they'd be good on warrantees, no?

    Also, has a anybody seen the range of chainstay lengths? They list 17.5, but with sliders it will change. The Salsa El Mar gets a little on the long side when sliding out (18+).
    On competitive cyclist they list the chain stay length as 17.3-18.1 inches. So I would venture to say the chain stays are 18.1 inches when the sliding dropouts are fully slid out.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    On competitive cyclist they list the chain stay length as 17.3-18.1 inches. So I would venture to say the chain stays are 18.1 inches when the sliding dropouts are fully slid out.
    I like the sound of the short end. Not short, not super long. Hopefully we get more intel soon.

  45. #45
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    So want to pull the string and possibly set up as 1x9 with the old 26er sitting in the garage.

    Like the geo short head tube sloping top tube short seat post and long ETT. Now need to decide between sizes I normally like right around a 23" ETT.

    Do you single speeder find that ETT should be equal to what you have on your Full suspension bikes?
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEMIjer View Post
    So want to pull the string and possibly set up as 1x9 with the old 26er sitting in the garage.

    Like the geo short head tube sloping top tube short seat post and long ETT. Now need to decide between sizes I normally like right around a 23" ETT.

    Do you single speeder find that ETT should be equal to what you have on your Full suspension bikes?
    I just ordered a large last night. If you are anywhere near northern va you are welcome to check it out when I get it set up.

  47. #47
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    Must resist urge ...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Must resist urge ...
    My final review will go live tomorrow, if anyone is interested. Here's the On-Test post:

    On Test: Civilian Luddite Singlespeed 29er Mountain Bike | Mountain Bike Blog || SINGLETRACKS.COM

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I just ordered a large last night. If you are anywhere near northern va you are welcome to check it out when I get it set up.
    Actually close to NOVA fredericksburg area, i think I will jsut go medium, tired of beating my Anthem to death this will keep down on maintainence.
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  50. #50
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    will you comment on your fit dgaddis? i see you got a large, how tall are you and howd the geo work out?
    top tube looks longer than im used to

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