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  1. #1
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    Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?

    Civilian appears to have been acquired by, and become the house brand of, Competitive Cyclist/Backcountry.com. Civilian has some interesting bikes on their site (and on CC), but I'm really intrigued by the Luddite.

    The Luddite is a steel frame SS that can also be run with gears. Because it has an oversized headtube (and takes a tapered fork), the closest bike on the market is the Salsa El Mar.

    Weight is not listed for the Luddite, and I haven't seen any reviews or other information about them. I'm not even sure this bike is available to ship yet. Hoping somebody has seen one or ridden one or has some more info.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    I too am interested in more about this brand, I haven't been able to find much...

  3. #3
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    Linky here:

    2012 Civilian Luddite - Competitive Cyclist

    Looks nice, comes stock with a carbon fork. But the msrp is steep for what you get though. I can only figure that they do an immediate "sale price"

  4. #4
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    Mountain - Civilian - Civilian
    It does seem steep for a SS with mechanical brakes.
    Me. The chosen one. They chose me. And I didn't even graduate from fu**ing high school.

  5. #5
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    I think CC has the chance to deliver some real value in the Civilian bikes, as Civilian is now essentially a direct-to-consumer bike line manufactured and sold by a large, knowledgeable player in the online bike market (Backcountry.com/Competitive Cyclist), much like Salsa Bikes are owned and sold by QBP.

    I'd love to build a Ti Selma, but am still struggling to justify the expense. In addition to the cost of the frame itself, I know the costs would spiral with the "might-as-well's" of the build. Instead, I am looking at buying a complete Salsa El Mar 2, building up an El Mar frame with mid-priced parts, or buying a Civilian Luddite and adding a nice Reba fork with 15mmTA, tapered steerer, and remote lock out.

    The Salsa bikes are a known commodity, but the Luddite looks great, and I know the guys at CC wouldn't make the misstep of offering a clunky bike for the launch of their house brand. But sadly, Civilian has not responded to an email I sent over the weekend, requesting more information about the bike and its weight.

    If anyone has ridden the Civilian hard-tail (the Luddite or Young Turk), please let me know what you think about this bike.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    Yes, I saw the site. It's nice but I couldn't find the weight. Did you find it?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Yes, I saw the site. It's nice but I couldn't find the weight. Did you find it?
    Their configurator page lists it around the 20# range.

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Luddite
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    Their configurator page lists it around the 20# range.

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Luddite
    Thanks. Looks like the XL would be 20.6lbs. Not bad for a steel bike, especially in the $1000 range. I talked to CC and they said the carbon fork is approx 500g, so adding a suspension fork would only add two lbs to the complete bike. For those who may be interested, the WTB wheels weigh approx 1900g, which isn't much heavier than my Stans Flows, and certainly far lighter than the stock wheels that came on my Monocog Flight.

    The Luddite is looking like a bargain for a mid-level bike steel bike, assuming it rides well.

  9. #9
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    Thanks to Gofannon, I found that once you select the frame color and size on the CC website, it takes you to a page listing all of the individual parts on the bike and their respective weights. Looking at this page, it would be easy to shave a pound off this bike to offset the addition of a suspension fork.

    I may be alone in this preference, but I'd rather have good mechanical disc brakes (such as the BB7's) over entry level avid hydros any day of the week. Doubly so on an SS XC bike.

    And considering the parts and weight of this bike, I don't think the msrp is steep. Assuming the ride is as good, it compares quite favorably to the Kona Unit and the Monocog Flight, which are both heavier bikes.

    Finally, if anyone has a suggestion for a reasonably priced and spec'ed lightweight SS which doesn't use an EBB, please let me know. Thanks.

  10. #10
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    I think the weight is only for the kit-everything but the frame so you are looking at another 5 lbs. or so but still no biggy.
    A 20# complete just doesn't sound right
    I could be wrong though. It is nice the Turk one comes with a Reba and the option to SS still. But purchasing a closeout Monocog or similar and a Reba and you are in the same range of quality and value for less money, sans sliding dropouts

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmmorath View Post
    I think the weight is only for the kit-everything but the frame so you are looking at another 5 lbs. or so but still no biggy.
    A 20# complete just doesn't sound right
    I could be wrong though. It is nice the Turk one comes with a Reba and the option to SS still. But purchasing a closeout Monocog or similar and a Reba and you are in the same range of quality and value for less money, sans sliding dropouts
    I think it's for the complete bike because other bikes show pretty standard weights.
    Me. The chosen one. They chose me. And I didn't even graduate from fu**ing high school.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Thanks. Looks like the XL would be 20.6lbs. Not bad for a steel bike, especially in the $1000 range. I talked to CC and they said the carbon fork is approx 500g, so adding a suspension fork would only add two lbs to the complete bike. For those who may be interested, the WTB wheels weigh approx 1900g, which isn't much heavier than my Stans Flows, and certainly far lighter than the stock wheels that came on my Monocog Flight.

    The Luddite is looking like a bargain for a mid-level bike steel bike, assuming it rides well.
    There is no chance that bike complete weighs 20lbs. You've got to add the weight of the frame to the weight of the kit. I'd bet that frame is every bit of 5.7-6lbs.

    Hell, there's a half pound of seatpost that's mis-listed, too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneBadWagon View Post
    There is no chance that bike complete weighs 20lbs. You've got to add the weight of the frame to the weight of the kit. I'd bet that frame is every bit of 5.7-6lbs.
    Agreed. I suspect the bike weighs at least 25lbs.

  14. #14
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    It does have a carbon rigid fork, I would think around 23-24 pounds
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    It does have a carbon rigid fork, I would think around 23-24 pounds
    With those parts? No chance. It says the build kit is 20.6 lbs, so add youre at 26ish. That is not a light kit at all.

  16. #16
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    I think the steel fork on my Monocog Flight weighed about 2 or 3 lbs, which was lighter than I expected at the time I removed it. The carbon fork on the Luddite has a claimed weight 500g (about 1.1lbs), which only eliminates a pound or two off a steel fork. The balance of the components on the Luddite appear to be no lighter than the spec'ed parts on the Monocog Flight, the Kona Unit, or the Salsa El Mar, and in many instances, the Luddite parts are heavier. And while some steel frames are lighter than others, a double butted steel frame in any given size has some minimum weight, and in an XL mass-produced frame, it's probably 5lbs.

    Given there is no magic steel frame, and no flyweight parts listed in the kit, I suspect the Civilian Luddite (and geared Young Turk) weighs within a pound or two of the Unit, Monocog Flight, and Salsa El Mar.

    If the Luddite had a the Reba RL fork at the $1,100 price, it would be a bargain (and unique in the market as a steel SS complete bike with a good suspension fork). But as it stands, it is simply another rigid SS bike with a build kit and weight comparable to the other bikes listed above. I suppose the carbon fork distinguishes it, but I'm too old for a fully rigid bike.

    While the Luddite may be a great bike and an equal value to its competition, I'd rather buy the known El Mar or MC Flight for the same price until the jury is in on the Luddite.

    All that said, if the XL Luddite is, in fact, only 20lbs, I'll buy one and try it.

  17. #17
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    Well, it looks like I may be buying a Luddite.

    Assuming the claimed weight of the kit is correct on Competitive Cyclist, and adding 289g for a 410mm Thomson seatpost (and subtracting the 23g seat post error on the CC site), the total kit has a claimed weight of 7,554g or 16.65 lbs. Add a 5 pound steel frame, and you're still under 22lbs.

    If anybody finds an error in my math or a missing part that should be added to the kit weight, let me know.

    Obviously, a bike on the scale gives its true weight, but the Luddite may be back in the running for me.

  18. #18
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    Here's a better link to the parts list.
    Luddite - Civilian - Civilian

    Here's a link to the listed 85g bottom bracket.
    It's an ounce heavier on their own site.
    2012 SRAM GXP Team Bottom Bracket - Competitive Cyclist

    According to a different site, the cranks are 2 ounces heavier than listed.
    Truvativ CSBB 07 Firex 1.1G 33T 175 Blk Truvativ Cranksets Mountain

    Nevegal listed weight 720g
    According to their own site, 820g.
    2012 Kenda Nevegal DTC 29 Tire - Competitive Cyclist

    This is speculation, but it's listed as a WTB XC wheelset. WTB Speed Disc rims are 550g each, so with hubs/spokes/nipples you're looking at :
    1100g rims
    410g rear hub QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts - Detailed info for QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts,bike hub,QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts, on Alibaba.com
    250g front hub QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub - Detailed info for QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub,front bicycle hub,QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub, on Alibaba.com
    70g nipples
    444g 64 dt swiss 2.0g nipples

    I don't see how that wheelset is less than 2300g.

    Buy it, they apparently have a good return policy. I'd love to see a cheap 22-23lb SS bike on the market.

  19. #19
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    I just went to the Salsa website to look at the El Mar for comparison. Kudos to Salsa for listing the weights of their complete bikes in each frame size! Wish all manufacturers would list weights.

  20. #20
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    I'm just curious why the hell a bike called the Luddite comes with a carbon fork and tapered compatibility...
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I'm just curious why the hell a bike called the Luddite comes with a carbon fork and tapered compatibility...
    Funny. My guess is that the name is a nod to the frame material, lack of gears, and lack of suspension.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    I think it's for the complete bike because other bikes show pretty standard weights.
    If you add up all of the component weights on the young turk model, total component weight comes to 20.00 lb. The "kit totals" weight read 23.99 lb. So, i assume the difference is the steel frame (3.99 lb).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnseltz View Post
    If you add up all of the component weights on the young turk model, total component weight comes to 20.00 lb. The "kit totals" weight read 23.99 lb. So, i assume the difference is the steel frame (3.99 lb).
    < 4 lbs. steel frame?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  24. #24
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    I guarantee this bike is at least 25 lbs or so...you guys thinking the bike is only 20 lbs are out of your mind.

  25. #25
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    Has anyone taken deliver for this 20lb wonderbike that defies math yet?

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