Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 244
  1. #1
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651

    36er Prototype Pictures.

    Hi guys. Here's a few teaser shots and some info on the 36er I've designed. I will be posting more in depth info after QBP's Frostbike this weekend. Enjoy!

    Wheelbase: 46 inches.
    Weight: 36 lbs, (with full Surly flask and holder!)
    Chainstay length: 520 mm
    Drivetrain: 3 X 6, 20-90 gear inches
    Standover height: 30.5 inches
    Top tube length: 24.5 inches

    Pic #1: A line up of 26", 29", and 36" wheels featuring the local Titus rep.
    Pic #2: Photo of the bike next to an 18" Salsa El Mariachi for size comparison.

    My first impressions, it's more fun than I possibly imagined!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  2. #2
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,019
    Yeah, finally pics of a purposely-designed 36" MTB, props for having it done!!

    Please do share any info and pics, details!!!

  3. #3
    Poorly Disguised Poser
    Reputation: unit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,173

    holy poo

    I have seen the Cokers before...but when you put it next to the 29er, the 29er looks like a little bitty bike...the difference is remarkable...looks like a 29er next to a BMX bike in terms of tire size.

    Love to see more of that frame though.

    Too bad you have a very limited selection of tires....at this point....
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  4. #4
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    There is only one tire actually. Coker tires no longer fit Airfoil aluminum rims. We've figured out how to cut our own tread into the slick TA tires easily enough, it actually yields a tire that is over a lb lighter than the Coker, and the tread is much better. The grip so far is unbelievable!
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  5. #5
    Hike it or Bike it!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Hi guys. Here's a few teaser shots and some info on the 36er I've designed. I will be posting more in depth info after QBP's Frostbike this weekend. Enjoy!

    Wheelbase: 46 inches.
    Weight: 36 lbs, (with full Surly flask and holder!)
    Chainstay length: 520 mm
    Drivetrain: 3 X 6, 20-90 gear inches
    Standover height: 30.5 inches
    Top tube length: 24.5 inches

    Pic #1: A line up of 26", 29", and 36" wheels featuring the local Titus rep.
    Pic #2: Photo of the bike next to an 18" Salsa El Mariachi for size comparison.

    My first impressions, it's more fun than I possibly imagined!
    More importantly, how does it ride (outside of being "fun")?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,598
    Holy Moly! I sure hope you have at least an 8" rotor on the front. I suspect that thing could pick up some serious speed going downhill!!!!

  7. #7
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    Quote Originally Posted by SingingSingleTracker
    More importantly, how does it ride (outside of being "fun")?
    The momentum generated by the wheels is astounding. Once up to speed, it takes no energy at all to keep it moving. It really feels like a 29er on crack. Everying is magnified with the larger wheels. They are heavy but no one who has ridden it yet has even commented on that. On hills it is noticable, though the gearing seems fine in this regard. Coming down hills is awesome! I spun out the big gear, (over 90 inches,) last night in town.

    The first thing people say is how surprised by how "normal" it feels. It is stable to a fault, but not hard to corner with at all. It feels much like a motorcycle, where stability in cornering is much higher than that of a bike. It is very confidence insipiring, inspite of the icy roads we have now. With the tires at about 10 psi, I could not make the rear tire slip on clearly icy roads. It's pretty unreal. Curbs are the clearest point of how these things roll over stuff. With lower pressure, the wheels simply pop over them.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  8. #8
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,019
    Are the airfoil rims too tight or too losse fitting for the Coker tires?

    Which tubes are in there, if any?
    The 24hr unicycle distance record was set with a tubeless setup.
    I've read reports that the Schwalbe 28x2.35" tubes work just fine in 36" unicycle wheels, saves like half a pound per wheel, perhaps?

    Will someone ever manage to make one tire out of two? Like joining two really wide 26" tires that clear mud well and roll decently. The frankentire technology (sticking a tread on a shaved bold tire) may also be an option again. We have many 29" options now, so there's less need for frankentires in that size now.
    Please report on head tube angle, fork offset and toe clearance?

  9. #9
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    The tires we are using are a bastardized Wheels TA slick. This tire is 300 grams lighter than the Coker before cutting the tread, and that drops a further 100 grams off the tire.

    The Coker tire REALLY doesn't work with the Aluminum rim anymore. They blow off the rim at any more than 20 psi. It is not an option. The cut slicks do a better job anyway. 29er tubes do work fine. I'm using a standard Bontrager, though I have the rimstrips from Stan to make them tubeless, which we'll be trying wen the weather warms up.


    Jan, this thing would be perfect for your beach races. You'd love it.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  10. #10
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,019
    No kidding, I SO BADLY want a bike like this, for beach racing as well as other stuff!

    Which Stan's strips, custom? Stretching them will narrow them down of course, and may affect stickyness/sealing properties?

    How wide are the rims?

    Do us a favor and mount a stupidly short gear, and see how steep you can climb with that long-ass chainstays? I bet at 10psi you can ride up steep staircases!

    Only real downside I see for larger wheels is that at the lower pressures you'll run, the rims may hit more easily, the volume being bigger to boot.

  11. #11
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    You have to remember that the tires are FOUR PLY!! This changes the PSI scale like you wouldn't believe. The tire are rock hard at 35 psi, and at 10-17 psi they feel pretty normal. With the hub I'm using in the rear, it's hard to get a 34t big ring to work without rubbing the upper der jockey wheel. I'm working on that. The der is simply not designed to move that far down in that short of a space. I had to modify it as well in regards to the low set screw, which would not screww in far enough to stop the der. If a longer screw was used it prevented the der from moving normally to the lower gears. The solution is very simple, but took some time to figure out. I think that combined with the heavier wheels, a gear lower than 22-27 that's on there would be relativly useless. It's simple going to be had to keep the bike going at that low of a speed anyway. That said, with that low of a gear, you could pull stumps!
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  12. #12
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,019
    You're using a Hope SS hub, I presume? Or Profile 6-speed 150mm?
    Yes, it's hard to get a 34t to work then. SRAM is a no-no them, by lack of B-tension spring (if that's how you say that).
    Have you considered a longer derailer hanger? With a custom (say) 40t cog (can be had, really), and then like 32-26-22-18-15 you'd still have a great range.

    On "my" 36" I'll certainly have wide hubs and the longer derailer hanger I just came up with. Or someone will have to make a longer-body derailer.

  13. #13
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    The hubs are 135 front and rear, Surly SS front, Profile 6 spd 135 rear. 150mm makes sense, but hub availability is shoddy at best. I wanted everything on here to be as available as possible. The "simple" solution to the rear der is to have a threaded and tapped "plug" made that would screw into the existing der mount, and move the der out an inch or so. I'm working on that.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  14. #14
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,019
    Moving the hanger out an inch will give you 2 x Pi x 2 = over 12t extra clearance if I am not mistaken. On the lower end shifting might hurt a bit, an 11t already feeling like it was placed where a 23t belongs.
    Half an inch might do the job if you want to stick to a 34t largest cog?

    I have not ridden a 36" more han a couple straights and corners at a bike show, but I think it's not "heavy wheel momentum" keeping you going, but a greatly reduced pulling effect of the uneven terrain on your bike.

    4-ply, wow... If those could be ordered in 2-ply, they'd be totally different again I'm sure.
    Is rolling resistance over smooth pavement now even a benefit over a fast 26/29" tire?
    I can't emphasize enough how much you ROCK daring to do this. You will most certainly not be the last either.

    My 36" wishlist :
    - V-brakes should do fine
    - Really wide hubs, please!
    - Long crank compliant (if the wheels are going to fit me, so are the cranks)
    - sub-30lbs is possible. With alu frame/fork, pounds lighter still.

    Time to come up with a frank/crank design that does away with a bottom bracket. Move the rear wheel as far forward as one wants. :-)

  15. #15
    OMR - Old Man Riding
    Reputation: mtber3737's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    429

    New question here. What about....

    Using a Rohlof hub? Would this work? (Excuse the ignorance)

    Gladshooks!.... that tire is bigger than my inseam

    We aren't easily impressed here in SoCal but that is an awesome bike! A big fun factor

    OLM...
    SoCal
    Older than Dirt!!!

  16. #16
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,019
    Rohloff isn't rated for those gear ratio's I think.

  17. #17
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    9,304
    Nice stuff.

    Where'd you source the spokes? Or did you cut 'em yourself from old fenceposts?!!

    In case no one else has mentioned it, you *really* need a pic of the bike by itself...

    Cheers,

    MC

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    227
    This is just too good to be true!

    Please post some extra pics from the bike + frame, willing to share frame drawings? Any commercial plans with this?

    Please shoot Mark Slate from WTB an Email about this, also with ride report. I'm talking with him about 31" / 32" mountainbike wheels, but he simply thinks it's not going to work ......

  19. #19
    Witty McWitterson
    Reputation: ~martini~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,037
    Sweet!

    Can't wait to take some fancy pics of this beast at the open house! I'm all giddy now....
    Just a regular guy.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ss29er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    205

    It is all that and more!

    I rode that monster Saturday ( I had to leave my first born son as a deposit ) and I must say Ben did a wonderful job of designing this bike. It rides without any unusual quirks at all. For the right application this bike will rock!
    Thanks again.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by ss29er
    For the right application this bike will rock!
    Right application? ...........

  22. #22
    Let's ride
    Reputation: rensho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    7,137
    Anyone make a long travel fork for it yet?

    That's really cool.

    Make mine a SS please.

  23. #23
    Recovering Weight Weenie
    Reputation: Padre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,766
    I'd REALLY like to see a bike built for someone my size using those wheels...I dare say it would look "normal." At least I'd look more "normal" on it.
    I might be convinced to run rigid on one of those!

  24. #24
    MONKEYMAN
    Reputation: finger51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    792

    I saw this 36" last halloween critical mass

    SS with a nice wicker basket!
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  25. #25
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,019
    Padre, a 200mm DH fork could be reduced to a 80mm (fuzzy math) 36" fork easily!

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sean350's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    312
    More pics, please!
    Wow, I'd love to take that thing for a spin. Sweet.
    -Sean

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fillet-brazed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,696
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Rohloff isn't rated for those gear ratio's I think.

    Just decrease the gear ratio at the chain drive.


    I have a question, do these accelerate as fast as a BMX bike since these wheels will have less RPMs? Also, are these just as good for a 5'2" person like the 29er is?

    Thanks.




  28. #28
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    A Rohloff would be ideal for this bike. I think that that ratios would be just fine. The biggest thing is that Rohloff's are only available in 32 hole drillings. If they offered a 36, I'd have one.

    The spokes are commonly available, if you use the right hubs, and are less money than some high end, double butted, normal offereings.

    For bigger people like Padre, it's really very easy to get a bike with these wheels. This frame could be built far smaller even without many trade offs. I have the designs, and the next one built is going to be for a 5' 8" friend.

    Forks are a dream at this point. White Bothers would be the guys to go to, and I have called them about it. They said for about $5000 plus labor they could do it, but they don't want to. They would have to re-engineer their DH 200 fork, and they said that it might not even work well then.

    The bars and seat are in the exact same positon relative to the ground as on my RX. If a person were to get a 2-3 inc fork made for it, it would invariably have to raise the bars at least 3 inches, plus all the issues of rebuilding the front end of the frame to be strong enough. I don't think that it would be worth it.

    About the "right application," I don't know that there is one. I think that I summed it up best when I said that the bike is fun. It is smooth like nothing I've ever ridden. It's got heavier wheels then some whole bike's I've owned. The wheels are inherently weak, and there's only so much that can be done with that. The tires are the biggest failing point, as anythign with custom tread can't be ever massed produced. In short, the bike should suck in a lot of ways, but it's really fun. The bike litteraly stopped traffic when I was riding it around town yesterday, and I've never owned a bike that has done that. It's not right for anything really, just a lot of fun.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    91
    What WOuld it take to get a set of these plans for a 6'3 guy??

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sean350's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    312
    For suspension (with a crazy high head tube), you could always go the ol' Action-Tec/Headshok route.
    -Sean

  31. #31
    highly visible
    Reputation: GlowBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,185
    I think this could be a great development for tall riders, although for serious MTB it would be better if a 32"-ish came first (not holding my breath).

    But even at 5'7", I want one. Would be awesome for cruising the beach, around town and on dirt roads. Even if I did have to point the stem backwards for proper fit!
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  32. #32
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    Any commercial plans with this?
    I could have custom one's of these pretty easily. I would love if the wheelsize took off, but a great amount of involvement and money would be required to accomplish that. There is no standard 36" size, not real ISO rim measurement. Look at the Coker tire deal. There are two tires out there, and even those don't work with each other! That's a perfect example of this. Like Cloxxki said, think if these tires had normal tread and were two ply? It'd be a different thing all together. That would be really fun. If standard parts could be developed that anyone could source and use, that would be something really cool.

    I have a question, do these accelerate as fast as a BMX bike since these wheels will have less RPMs? Also, are these just as good for a 5'2" person like the 29er is?
    The bike accelerates fairly well all things considered. Nothing really like a BMX bike though.

    The 8" brakes work really well. They feel like 6-7" brakes on a 29er. I am a bit leary of really getting on them, because of the spoke windup, it's noticable. I don't think that there is a way around that, not without using heavier spokes, and those are heavy. The brakes are perfectly fine for the application, maybe too good.

    I've had people as short as 5' 4" ride this. They don't fit, but they could. The bars would be generally high in relation to you seat, that's hard to get around.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  33. #33
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy
    I think this could be a great development for tall riders, although for serious MTB it would be better if a 32"-ish came first (not holding my breath).

    But even at 5'7", I want one. Would be awesome for cruising the beach, around town and on dirt roads. Even if I did have to point the stem backwards for proper fit!
    32 inch wheels really don't exist at all. I think that the advantage to this wheelsize is that basic elements are all here, they just need to be refined. In some ways it's even easier than 29ers, because an okay tire already exists. That means that a mould somewhere exists, and a design could just be altered, not invented.

    The front end of the bike ends up being extreamly similar to a "normal" 29er. Somethgin as short as a 23.5" effective TT should be doable. I bet the standover height on this one is better that most 29ers, even little ones.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  34. #34
    Cold. Blue. Steel.
    Reputation: OneGearGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,707
    HOT damn!!!!
    More than anything, I LOVE the innovation going on here. Keep pushing the envelope!
    29er's didn't "exist" a handful of years ago either, lest not forget. Pushing the edges of what we know and have become familiar with is the only way forward.
    I would love one with full fenders for the ultimate commuting machine. Stick an airhorn on the bars and watchout SUV's!

    Share some more detailed pics if you can.
    Thanks
    OGG
    Spinning and Grinning...

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ss29er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubert
    Right application? ...........
    Fun!!!

  36. #36
    Let's ride
    Reputation: rensho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    7,137
    What about a 29/36?
    Or 26/36?
    Or 36/24/36?

  37. #37
    One wheeled
    Reputation: Dirtsurfer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    There is no standard 36" size, not real ISO rim measurement. Look at the Coker tire deal. There are two tires out there, and even those don't work with each other! That's a perfect example of this.
    I have the "old" Airfoil rim and can run either tire without a problem. I have been running the Coker tire tubeless for four worn tires. The problem is with the rim maunfacturer. A batch awhile ago was too large even for the Coker tire, they cut them down and powder coated them (causing rim brake problems). This new "X" batch should of been rejected but wasn't. My thinking is Uni.com didn't want to step on any toes or have the rim maker cancel out completely. We definately need more tire selection.

  38. #38
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,219

    Thanks for posting this!

    I've been "in the know" on this project for quite awhile now and you have no idea how hard it is for me to keep my mouth shut!

    This is too fun, really. It's like a Pugsley in that you don't really need one, but it makes you smile just looking at it so much you just gotta have one!

    I think this thing would be crazy fast on rolling courses like Iceman Coeth, Chequamegon, or the like. Gravel roads would fly by! Perhaps the ideal Trans Iowa machine?

    I don't know, but it's fun to think about, that's for sure!

    Can't wait to see it in the flesh this weekend!
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

    Blog
    RidingGravel.com

  39. #39
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtsurfer
    I have the "old" Airfoil rim and can run either tire without a problem. I have been running the Coker tire tubeless for four worn tires. The problem is with the rim maunfacturer. A batch awhile ago was too large even for the Coker tire, they cut them down and powder coated them (causing rim brake problems). This new "X" batch should of been rejected but wasn't. My thinking is Uni.com didn't want to step on any toes or have the rim maker cancel out completely. We definately need more tire selection.
    You're absoloutly right. I didn't really want to tell the whole story, but this is my point exatcly. There needs to be a standard to really make this fly.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  40. #40
    mvi
    mvi is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,236
    Too much! Lets go 32"first.

  41. #41
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,551
    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Too much! Lets go 32"first.
    c'mon... i think it's awesome -- totally bleeding edge type of stuff. 29ers were such an easy transition because the wheel size standard existed... this thread reminded me of that fact. there would be so many challenges to overcome to get it into production -- settling a wheel size standard would just be one of them. but it's not impossible. heck, a lot of people still scoff at the thought of a 29er... just think how bunched up their panties would get if you pulled up to a ride on a friggin 36er! i love it!

    it's not the first bike you'd pull outta the shed every single day, but for sand/beach racing and a select handful of other conditions, i suspect it'd be incredible.

    nice work ben, and my thanks to you for sharing it with us. hopefully i'll get a chance to see it in-person soon.

    cheers,
    mg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  42. #42
    Crop Dusting Magistrate
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    600
    My GAWD people.....why don't we just STOP with all this big wheel nonsense and just get rolling on this high-tech Big wheel bike....

    It wasn't me

  43. #43
    Don't be a sheep
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,372
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubert
    Right application? ...........
    That bike would rock on this terrain.




    Good grief......what next.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    456
    I think I saw a clown on this bike at the circus right next to the waterskiing chipmonk.

  45. #45
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,551

    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Howeler
    My GAWD people.....why don't we just STOP with all this big wheel nonsense and just get rolling on this high-tech Big wheel bike....

    now that's what i'm talkin' about...

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davidcopperfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,774

    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! 36" is to small

    I assume that 36" is too small try this. This would be awesome, and try new WB fork for this perhaps DH bike like this flanges, spokes hubs bigger stiffer beefier, stronger

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4
    An Action Tech fork might work well (light and stiff).

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Go Kart Motzart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,239
    Is this a different version of the Dorothy?

  49. #49
    WAWE
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,409
    I want one... just because!

  50. #50
    Recovering Weight Weenie
    Reputation: Padre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    That bike would rock on this terrain.
    Good grief......what next.
    Let's talk when you've actually consumed the Kool-Aid of the 29er thing...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •