29ers Unite,Tell C'dale theres an interest!

[Angus]

OK, Now that I have decided My next 29er will be the ultra-affordable Redline (deposit already placed) I am now planning for a 29er with gears (other than putting them on my KM). I was at my LBS to check out Orbeas, it's a nice bike, but didn't get that cool feeling from it that I need to drop $1800++ on it. My LBS also carries Cannondales, and It seems to me it would be way easy for C'dale to do a 29er lefty , solving the need to deal with other MFG's for forks. So after leaving the shop I went home and was websurfing on C'dales site and found a Blog for Brad (Brad is teir Nickname for their Big headed dude on their logo's)

one of the Blogs is called "Ask Brad" so I did, and got a response in less than 24 hours (during a weekend to boot) My question and "Brads" response follows........




Brad, you Big head bugger, I have a question that keeps me up at night, I want a Cannondale, and I want it with a Lefty, but I also want it with 29" Wheels, Is it possible for my Dream to become a reality? Keep up the great designs......

The following reply was given for your comment:

Hey Robb, Wish I could give you a yes/no answer, but it's a question that is on the minds of many around here so, quite frankly, there is no answer yet. Here's what I will do, I'm going to pass you wish onto our Product Development Manager.... can't hurt! Cross your fingers. It's a small market but it seems that the interest is growing. Anyone else want to chime in with their thoughts? Thanks for droppin' in Robb. BRAD


So since they asked if anyone else wants to Chime in heres your Chance

http://thebradblog.cannondalecommunity.com/default.asp?item=92805

Lets show them that this market isn't as small as they think.........

[Super E]

There is more on this floating around in cyber space....

http://carlosdajackal.blogspot.com/2...-calories.html
http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com...9er-in-07.html

I would sound off on those 2 blog postings. I know that the folks of C-Dale read them.

If they built one would you ride it for an endurance event bike?

[KERKOVEJ]

There is more on this floating around in cyber space....

http://carlosdajackal.blogspot.com/2...-calories.html
http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com...9er-in-07.html

I would sound off on those 2 blog postings. I know that the folks of C-Dale read them.

[NurdBoy]

Sorry, but I have no Cannondale love...Maybe they can put a motor on it!

[BruceBrown]

Lets show them that this market isn't as small as they think.........

Best to talk to the investment group that bought Cannondale and took them out of bankruptcy. The investors want a return on their investment and have shrewd control of the financial end of Cannondale. Fine, if the Cannondale designers want to come out with new product - but can they convince their owners of the financial implications to introduce a two niner?

Cool for us to have a Cannondale left 29"er, but is it cost effective for the company to market, produce and sell a big hooped version of their product?

Time will tell...

BB

[Angus]

Sorry, but I have no Cannondale love...Maybe they can put a motor on it!

You never heard of a White lie? Wink,Wink,Nudge,Nudge....

[Super E]

Lets show them that this market isn't as small as they think.........

You need to convince a few of the Pros to race on them and win some big XC events first, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels here.

[Go Kart Motzart]

You need to convince a few of the Pros to race on them and win some big XC events first, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels here.

Actually it works the other way around. The pro's will race whatever the manufacturer tells them to. The pro's that get to pick their own bikes are usually the scrub privateers.

[Angus]

Wow all the "Negative Nancies" are Online tonight.
The guy from C'dale asked for others to chime in , he didn't say hey Robb convince Tinker.
Has the 29er crowd already soured? I remember when we were excited when a company,gave any hint of promise.
There was a time when the big 29 Question was asked to companies and all we got was NO.
Hell this time I got a definite maybe, at least it's a step in the right direction, but hey if you don't want more 29er choices just stay negative and they'll go away.......

[djcrb9]

Sorry, but I have no Cannondale love...Maybe they can put a motor on it!

i second that.

[ekoostick]

You need to convince a few of the Pros to race on them and win some big XC events first, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels here.

Tinker isn't the tallest guy I have ever met so I wouldn't hold your breath! Love the motor comment though! I have seen way to many cracked C-dale's in my day to ever give them even a glance. Why not support the new guys that are actually giving you this stuff? On-one, Surly, and Niner are the thoughts in my head! The "big" guys will put something into play soon but why not help the smaller guys get big by supporting them!

[ekoostick]

Wow all the "Negative Nancies" are Online tonight.
The guy from C'dale asked for others to chime in , he didn't say hey Robb convince Tinker.
Has the 29er crowd already soured? I remember when we were excited when a company,gave any hint of promise.
There was a time when the big 29 was asked , to companies and all we got was NO.
Hell this time I got a definite maybe, at least it's a step in the right direction, but hey if you don't want more 29er choices just stay negative and they'll go away.......

I am sorry. I have been sour'd by the "big" companies. If the customer is not always right, why keep prodding? Companies like Kona, KHS, Orbea, and many others care about what their shops and customers say and they strive to give them what they want. If Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Giant want to boss their dealers around, why the hell would they ever listen to them? I guess I am on the other side of the fence as a wrench that signs on all the new accounts. If you want me to get into it I will tell you all the companies that don't give two piles of feces about what you or I think. When I call Kona though and get a real person that listens to my customers feedback and feedback that I get on here, that goes along way in my book. In fact I called my guy the other day and he said that Kona has a pretty cool proto type coming down the line. Thats just me, the companies I listed have left a VERY sour taste in my mouth and I would never have them in our shop. Again, thats my opinion and you didn't say C'dale people unite, you asked for 29ers to unite.

[Angus]

Tinker isn't the tallest guy I have ever met so I wouldn't hold your breath! Love the motor comment though! I have seen way to many cracked C-dale's in my day to ever give them even a glance. Why not support the new guys that are actually giving you this stuff? On-one, Surly, and Niner are the thoughts in my head! The "big" guys will put something into play soon but why not help the smaller guys get big by supporting them!

Already have, been on a surly for two years, got a redline coming, but I would really like a nice geared race bike, and if you read my original post I feel the "lefty" is an easy 29er convert for a company like C'dale, and besides of the all the small companies you mentioned Cannodale is the only one who makes their frames in the USA......
so in a way I would be supporting the smaller guy, the guys who live and work in PA making C'dales....

[CdaleTony]

Already have, been on a surly for two years, got a redline coming, but I would really like a nice geared race bike, and if you read my original post I feel the "lefty" is an easy 29er convert for a company like C'dale, and besides of the all the small companies you mentioned Cannodale is the only one who makes their frames in the USA......
so in a way I would be supporting the smaller guy, the guys who live and work in PA making C'dales....

I think the overwhelming sentiment here is 'Who cares who makes it, as long as it is cheap as possible'. That unforutnately preclude inexpensive US made products...

I was out today for a short jaunt with a friend who hasnt biked in a few years..Didnt know what a 29er was...We crossed paths with a couple, and I put my wheel up to the 29"er and both of us were like 'dam thats big'. I knew what they were but never actually did a side by side..The rider seemed to like it on the local trails.
But see, if I get a 29er, it Has to be Cdale, I mean I would need a new handle and everything

CDT

[Bigwheel]

One thing you have to understand is that Cdale was approached at Interbike in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 along with follow up emails about the fact that their fork was a great candidate for conversion to 29" use. They chose to ignore. So if they come online now don't you think it will be kind of anticlimatic? I know it would be for me and I doubt I would ever subscribe to any of their gear as I have avoided their products succesfully for the last 22 years when I had one of their SR 500's which immediately lost the der hanger.

Also look at it this way. A lefty would not be cheap or easily adaptable to other brands of bikes. Wouldn't it be better to get a good working shock that was not a tank and didn't break the bank into the pipeline? What sense is it going to make to put a $700 fork setup on a $400 frame.....

[CdaleTony]

One thing you have to understand is that Cdale was approached at Interbike in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 along with follow up emails about the fact that their fork was a great candidate for conversion to 29" use. They chose to ignore. So if they come online now don't you think it will be kind of anticlimatic? I know it would be for me and I doubt I would ever subscribe to any of their gear as I have avoided their products succesfully for the last 22 years when I had one of their SR 500's which immediately lost the der hanger.

Also look at it this way. A lefty would not be cheap or easily adaptable to other brands of bikes. Wouldn't it be better to get a good working shock that was not a tank and didn't break the bank into the pipeline? What sense is it going to make to put a $700 fork setup on a $400 frame.....

I dont Think the Lefty is a tank...
But yes, Cdale does put 'lesser ( ) forks' on it's less expensive models..F300,F400....So I guess they could have an $800-$2500 line..I dunno..
All I know is reading the 29er forum sporadically, people want more, from more makers..
So, would this decision be soooooo bad?
Does the MTB hobby benefit at all from the ' We were first, back when it was cool----so screw the Big Timer jumpers-on/Johnny come latelys"?
I dont think it does , for MTB as a whole nor the 29er movement in particular. If designs are executed properly than it only helps 29er's, right?
CDT

[Guitar Ted]

One thing you have to understand is that Cdale was approached at Interbike in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 along with follow up emails about the fact that their fork was a great candidate for conversion to 29" use. They chose to ignore. So if they come online now don't you think it will be kind of anticlimatic? I know it would be for me and I doubt I would ever subscribe to any of their gear as I have avoided their products succesfully for the last 22 years when I had one of their SR 500's which immediately lost the der hanger.

So, it's safe to say that you would never buy a Cannondale, even if they would come out with a bike. Okay, fair enough. You do not have to like them, but their are plenty of others who do, or might if they made a 29"er.

Also look at it this way. A lefty would not be cheap or easily adaptable to other brands of bikes. Wouldn't it be better to get a good working shock that was not a tank and didn't break the bank into the pipeline? What sense is it going to make to put a $700 fork setup on a $400 frame.....

Well, actually I was quoted $1100.00 for a Lefty by a C'dale rep! But what does that matter. If some folks dig the Lefty, then so be it. I believe that several folks have already converted these Lefty forks for 29"er use, on other manufacturers frames. I've seen a Karate Monkey and a Dean on these boards. Couldn't be that difficult. And besides, look at some of the conversions you have done over the years! As for the Lefty being a "tank" as you put it, I'm not so sure that they all are so heavy. They do make several models of it.

I appreciate the fact that you, or someone you know, did some ground work here. I don't suppose that you are too interested in anything I have to add, but thanks for that effort. Perhaps there was a seed planted then, who knows?

I , for one, would love to see this happen. I think the more choices, the better. I think it would be a stepping stone to even better stuff for all 29"er affciandos if C'dale came on line with a 29"er. You do not have to like a C'dale to see that it could be a benefit to have them making a 29"er. I know I do not like every single 29"er design out there, but hey! The more the merrier! It's cool with me.

[Bigwheel]

I dont Think the Lefty is a tank...
But yes, Cdale does put 'lesser ( ) forks' on it's less expensive models..F300,F400....So I guess they could have an $800-$2500 line..I dunno..
All I know is reading the 29er forum sporadically, people want more, from more makers..
So, would this decision be soooooo bad?
Does the MTB hobby benefit at all from the ' We were first, back when it was cool----so screw the Big Timer jumpers-on/Johnny come latelys"?
I dont think it does , for MTB as a whole nor the 29er movement in particular. If designs are executed properly than it only helps 29er's, right?
CDT

I wasn't accusing the Lefty of being a tank, what I would like to see is a fork that is compatable with the major amount of frames already in distribution that works and isn't a tank and is not expensive. The 26" world has this, the 29" world does not.

Wasn't trying to be snobish about the early references to Cannondale. However it is ironic that when the market finally heats up due to the fires being fueled by the smaller builders and companies willing to take a chance, the big guns are more than willing to come in and exploit. Fisher took the initiative years ago to say screw it and make 29" wheeled bikes. Sure, ultimately Gary was the one that got it done, but he is just a guy who likes to ride bikes and not as into the corporate gaming. We approached individuals at Cannondale and other big companies to get them involved but got the cold shoulder.

My latest appeal to a name brand manufacturer resulted in this reply so little has changed.

"Sorry but at this time **** ***** has no plans to enter the 29'er market.
We realize the market for 29" bikes has a rabid following but currently our
resources are pointed in other directions."

[Bigwheel]

I appreciate the fact that you, or someone you know, did some ground work here. I don't suppose that you are too interested in anything I have to add, but thanks for that effort. Perhaps there was a seed planted then, who knows?

Geez Ted, of course I am interested in your comments, you are one of the few people on here that consistantly speaks the voice of reason in your posts.

You have to go back to that first Interbike I guess. We knew that there was something good about the "tire" but we also knew that unless there was a front shock to go along with it no one would pay any attention to the concept. Even though we knew that a rigid fork would work just fine and we used those POS Manitou 700c forks gladly, well kind of gladly.

My job for those years was to research sus forks at Interbike while working the Willits booth. I would go wander around and see what might work and talk to people that I thought might be able to make it happen, get their cards and do follow up after we got back. We all know that because of the fact that 99% of the companies cast their lowers stanchions that 99% of the 26" offerings would not work. Companies that use that method held no interest in doing a casting to supply such a small market, this I found out right away. We contacted WB right away because of the fact that they don't use a casting but at first they were less than acceptive also.

So I started to look at the fringe stuff. RST had some heavy comfort bike forks that had enough room for the "tire" but were tanky and had bad guts. We looked over the Look Carbon fork on display (that ultimately ended up on one of Gary's proto Potts bikes modified by Klein) and saw promise there but it was like a grand a copy and still needed to be modded. The Lefty and Headshok also were considered for obvious reasons and as I said contact was made.

So we ended up modifying some AMP heads and got into some Girven conversions and of course WB kept trying to get better then Marzochhi made a casting. However to this day there is not a reliable somewhat inexpensive shock that is not a tank. The Winwood tried but failed pretty miserably, mainly because of the innards which is sure seems like that could be resolved and the lowers are good to go.

Obviously you can convert a Lefty to run with a 29" wheel and a 1 1/8" headtube. So if that is what someone wants then I don't see what is stopping them from doing it with or without Cdales blessing. Other than the fact that a new Lefty setup is going to run someone around a grand at least to convert including the fork itself, new front hub and machined parts. The USE fork is that without any hassle. And now a Reba is a third of that and seems to work ok. The new WB IMV fork is promising but spendy. Along with the plethora of rigid forks available from custom makers and the Pace carbon models. A luxury that wasn't around in 99' for sure.

[Go Kart Motzart]

One thing you have to understand is that Cdale was approached at Interbike in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 along with follow up emails about the fact that their fork was a great candidate for conversion to 29" use. They chose to ignore.

The one thing you need to understand is Cannondale sells very few (I mean very few) aftermarket Leftys, so ignoring requests from a very fringe user group for a fork that they might wouldn't be able to sell was probably a good business decision.

However it is ironic that when the market finally heats up due to the fires being fueled by the smaller builders and companies willing to take a chance, the big guns are more than willing to come in and exploit.

That just good business. Large companies don't have the agility that small ones do. Changing an assembly line is a little more involved than adjusting the frame jig.

If I were a product manager for a Specialized or Giant I would still be on the fence about commiting to a line of 29'ers.

[FoShizzle]

i could care less if any more 29er become available....as far as i am concerned, there are plenty excellent choice available right now. the only exception i suppose would be for folks who want more hard core trailbike/DH capability but otherwise, I dont care at all.

[Bigwheel]

The one thing you need to understand is Cannondale sells very few (I mean very few) aftermarket Leftys, so ignoring requests from a very fringe user group for a fork that they might wouldn't be able to sell was probably a good business decision.

That just good business. Large companies don't have the agility that small ones do. Changing an assembly line is a little more involved than adjusting the frame jig.

If I were a product manager for a Specialized or Giant I would still be on the fence about commiting to a line of 29'ers.

What makes you think I don't understand? I understand it perfectly and have for years. And I am also aware of what large corporate "good business" is but I don't have to agree with the principals of either issue and I don't.

[CdaleTony]

The one thing you need to understand is Cannondale sells very few (I mean very few) aftermarket Leftys, so ignoring requests from a very fringe user group for a fork that they might wouldn't be able to sell was probably a good business decision.




That just good business. Large companies don't have the agility that small ones do. Changing an assembly line is a little more involved than adjusting the frame jig.

If I were a product manager for a Specialized or Giant I would still be on the fence about commiting to a line of 29'ers.

I imagine Cdale being DOA and ressuciated once is enough....Perhaps a little gun shy is understandable.
I misread your 'tank' comment, sorry..
I guess being a Cdale fan makes me defensive...Never said they were the end-all be-all, but it was my first bike and it served me well and I wanted to show my support (Made in the US adds a bit for me )
Lets all remember-it's about the riding!
CDT

[Go Kart Motzart]

What makes you think I don't understand?

I was barrowing your phrase of "One thing you have to understand is that...".

It's not just good business at the "large corporate" level, it's good business at any level. If you think the venture might very well lose money then it's probably not where you want to tie up capital, resources, etc.

[Cloxxki]

The problem with the bike industry has always been that it's run by enthousiasts. Some are (self-claimed) intellectuals, some are just "farmers" in to sweat hard and be masculin.

-If any manufacturing company in any BUSINESS sees a competitor come with some off-standard novelty, corporate spies are sent out to investigate, teams of engineers appointed to copy and better it. There must be a very good reason our respectd but hated competitor went through all this trouble to use off-standard parts. We cannot and will not lose out on this, or heads will roll.

-Now, if a big BIKE company see somethin gin their market that is not their own idea, they diss it. No way it's going to work, it's a stupid idea obviously, the new Biopace or bent cranks.

(conversation/thoughts at clueless big bike company)
Did you hear, Gary Fisher is having serious trouble keeping 29"ers in stock. Not a trade secret by far. So SOMEONE is buying these silly bikes. Also not a secret is that hardly any 26" custom bikes seem to be built anymore. So the most demanding customers are all but done making the switch already! What's going on here? And why do I see all these 29" bikes at the trailhead lately? Obviously none were (insert our brand name here). Man, have you notice there's like a dozen and a half of these silly 29" tires on the market already? Maverick is now doing factory conversion, we hear they're selling more forks because of it, no way those customers would have gone 26". white Brothers hardly makes 26" forks anymore. Lenz and Ventana are also pooping out new 29" products liek machine guns.
This is getting WEIRD! Have you ridden a 29"er? I haven't, it doesn't make any sense. Think we should make some? I get increasingly more emails about it...