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  1. #1
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    29er frames for drop-bar?

    With Salsa Fargo or Singular Gryphon there are some 29er frames for drop-bar. So the head tube is heigher and the top tube shorter - but not enough to compensate the longer distance to the grips of drop-bar. So the "reach" is longer.

    But is it possible to move the body behind the saddle on steep downhills? Or is it only possible to ride a kind of "cyclocross-style" with these drop-bar frames?

  2. #2
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    On a bike properly set up for drop bars, the drops will roughly be in the same place as the grip section would be on a flat bar. A lot of the bike I see in this forum are not set up that way.

    Drop bars on mtn bikes is not a new thing. Mtn bikes were being used with drop bars back in the 70s. Want to get a better idea how a drop bar should be set up on a mtn bike, search the vintage retro classic forum.

    And yes, you can get behind the saddle.

    Here is a VRCer that goes by Filletbrazed on a 25 year old bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck
    With Salsa Fargo or Singular Gryphon there are some 29er frames for drop-bar. So the head tube is heigher and the top tube shorter - but not enough to compensate the longer distance to the grips of drop-bar. So the "reach" is longer.

    But is it possible to move the body behind the saddle on steep downhills? Or is it only possible to ride a kind of "cyclocross-style" with these drop-bar frames?

    You are not entirely correct about hand position, depending on the bars used.

    With a "dirt-drop" style bar (woodchipper, midge, WTB by Nitto dirt-drops, etc) the way the drop and flare works out my hands are the same amount forward as they would be on a flat bar (and closer than on bar-ends). Yes, they are lower, but not farther forward, so I use a stem with a healthy rise.

    I can get behind the saddle fine.

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    i have been riding drops off road for over 25 years. referencing back - there were/are 2 schools of thought on drop bar style and placement. the "ibis" style - which used to use a cinelli road bar manually flared out is one. the other, which is the one you see most of time nowadays, is the "wtb" school of thought, which uses the dramatic widely flared and angled drop.

    with the modern version of the wtb-style, such as with the midge, or the woodchipper bars, the post above is pretty well spot on. the primary position is on the drops.

    but with the ibis-style, the bar is lower, and the go-to position is primary the hoods. the nitto dirt-drop was actually of this school of thought, and is in fact quite different from the other off-road bars such as the midge/woodchipper/wtb. numerous ordinary road bars will work in this school of thought - ( i like the flat-top bontragers, and the ritchey bio-max, for example ). anyway, after position the hoods as the primary position, the set-up and stem/height then splits the difference between the tops and drops. i am not sure why this style of dirt-drop hasn't transferred from the 80's to the modern day - but it bugs me when people get on as if the mega-flare and super-high drop is the only one out there - it isn't and it never was. this ibis-style drop had as much to do with early off-road drops as the other style - probably more. i find it much more versatile than the squat mega-flare style. but, whatever works.

    finally, no problem getting to wherever you need to be position wise - 2 examples of the ibis-style dirt drop - me and my kid :




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    I always thought descending on a fargo was one if it's strong points. The stance you're in (in the drops) creates a really good position to get behind the saddle. Braking is meh...at times though, under fast/bumpy descent, and having to be in the hooks. I thought about putting cross levers backwards facing on the back of the drops at one point and time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T mon T
    position the hoods as the primary position, the set-up and stem/height then splits the difference between the tops and drops.
    Right, so you still wind up with the hoods and drops higher than if you were setting up a road bike for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by T mon T
    i am not sure why this style of dirt-drop hasn't transferred from the 80's to the modern day - but it bugs me when people get on as if the mega-flare and super-high drop is the only one out there - it isn't and it never was. this ibis-style drop had as much to do with early off-road drops as the other style - probably more. i find it much more versatile than the squat mega-flare style. but, whatever works.
    Probably the same reason people don't ride flat bars and long low stems anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprintcarblue
    I always thought descending on a fargo was one if it's strong points. The stance you're in (in the drops) creates a really good position to get behind the saddle. Braking is meh...at times though, under fast/bumpy descent, and having to be in the hooks. I thought about putting cross levers backwards facing on the back of the drops at one point and time.
    "In the drops" and the "hooks" are the same thing and where I want to be for braking and descending.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck
    With Salsa Fargo or Singular Gryphon there are some 29er frames for drop-bar. So the head tube is heigher and the top tube shorter - but not enough to compensate the longer distance to the grips of drop-bar. So the "reach" is longer.

    But is it possible to move the body behind the saddle on steep downhills? Or is it only possible to ride a kind of "cyclocross-style" with these drop-bar frames?


    You use a stem that puts your hands where you need them
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52
    Probably the same reason people don't ride flat bars and long low stems anymore.
    What?

  10. #10
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    Slide the hoods down!!!

    A few months ago I bought a Dawes Dead Eye and threw on drops--- found that I was reaching too much to reach the brake levers when decending----so I slid the hoods down even inside the drop so when I stand I my fingers fall right onto the brake levers---the best braking control ever!!! Try it you like!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Bold
    A few months ago I bought a Dawes Dead Eye and threw on drops--- found that I was reaching too much to reach the brake levers when decending----so I slid the hoods down even inside the drop so when I stand I my fingers fall right onto the brake levers---the best braking control ever!!! Try it you like!!!!
    Ummmm...that is what I do, mention in my setup tips and is shown in my pics.
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    Just so excited

    Your right- not a new idea Shiggy but it has to be tried to believe- my buddy kept telling me for months to do it on my road bike and finally did- will never go back to traditional hood/bar set-up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Bold
    Your right- not a new idea Shiggy but it has to be tried to believe- my buddy kept telling me for months to do it on my road bike and finally did- will never go back to traditional hood/bar set-up.



    Pics ?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    "In the drops" and the "hooks" are the same thing and where I want to be for braking and descending.

    I guess I should clarify with the woodchippers with the long drop section, being near the curve/brakes versus being towards the back flat section of the bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    What?
    Old school. Take a look at bikes from the late 80s and early 90s. Many set their bikes up back then with looong stems, 135 to 150mm that position the bar way below the saddle height. Obviously longer travel forks impact your ability to set up a bike like that anymore, but it also just wasn't that comfortable after a while.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Bold
    Your right- not a new idea Shiggy but it has to be tried to believe- my buddy kept telling me for months to do it on my road bike and finally did- will never go back to traditional hood/bar set-up.
    Yup, and a lower lever position (though not as low as I use) is actually more traditional. The ultra high pistol grip style high lever on road bikes only became popular after the "brifter" levers came out.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by T mon T
    finally, no problem getting to wherever you need to be position wise

    And why do we see additional brake levers in the upper position?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52
    Old school. Take a look at bikes from the late 80s and early 90s. Many set their bikes up back then with looong stems, 135 to 150mm that position the bar way below the saddle height. Obviously longer travel forks impact your ability to set up a bike like that anymore, but it also just wasn't that comfortable after a while.
    Yes, and people still do that.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    Yes, and people still do that.
    If you say so.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
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  20. #20
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    i've been a fan of drop bars off road longer than i've had them. i got drops on my c'ham in 1983. the stem i used was an L/D and it had two inches of reach, with a lot of rise. when i finally got a flat bar set-up that i liked, i noticed that the brake hoods were right where the flat bars grips were. and that is my favorite position. i used to use cinellis, but i like my salsa bell laps a lot. and as an "older rider" non of my drop bar bikes are without interupters. "ibis drops" are really c'ham drops. charlie started that one too!

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    nope. common misconception.

    cunningham/wtb bars were far more angly, and "squished" than the ibis style - which were oringinaly cinnelli mod 64's cut down an inch, and then gently flared at the drop.
    entirely different set-up. biggest difference being in the c-ham model, the hoods are not used in the traditional road manner wheras on a mod 64 ( or the nitto dirt-drop ) , they are.

  22. #22
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    So the head tube is heigher and the top tube shorter - but not enough to compensate the longer distance to the grips of drop-bar. So the "reach" is longer.
    Not necessarily, it all depends on your individual setup - stem length and height, bars used spacers used. As others have said above, you ideally want your hands in roughly the same position as they would be on a flat bar bike. This means that you will be just as able to get your weight over the back. What it does change though is the position of the hands, and your centre of gravity, in relation to the steering axis. It is this enhanced ability to move the body in relation to the steering axis that give drop barred bikes their unique handling feel. You look at a lot of people who ride drops and you'll notice they have a greater tendency to steer using subtle weight shifts rather than 'steering' the bike with the bars as such.
    Yes - I do own Singular Cycles

  23. #23
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    27 years of drops off road,

    here's a shot of my #7 cunningham, in 1984. converted to drops in '83 when i got my LD from charlie. and my willits 28"er. it fits 29"ers. the 'ham has cinellis, the willits has salsa bell laps and interuptors.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 29er frames for drop-bar?-dscn0721.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images    

  24. #24
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    most excellent.

    .i see what you mean now. i was speaking to the popularized WTB-style drop most commonly assoc with alice B. wide flare, no real effective hoods hand position, unlike what you are on there.


    i too had cut and flared cinelli's in the early 80's. they were not from charlie, but if you wanna say he did it first, fine by me. that is not what he marketed thru wtb, tho. most of us made em' ourselves, but point reyes bikes was selling them, also.

    point being, there are two distinct schools of off-road drop style, use, and set-up. one is traced back to the angly wtb bar, and the other . . . . . first put into production after those early moded cinelli's by nitto . . . . well i say it never went away, and was kept alive mostly by wes w. - perhaps now most commonly seen in the "monster-cross" movement.

    fun stuff, and great pic - thanx a ton.

    PS: i am with you on the interruptors. love them.

  25. #25
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    we see them there cuz they work really well when riding with our hands there. that is the beauty of them, and of drops. as far as the original topic you asked about goes, that position will get you further back behind the saddle than any flat-bar.

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