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  1. #1
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    29" WHITE WHEEL BATTLE: STANS vs. AM CLASSIC

    Im considering going to white rims and making some adjustments to my Rigid SS.

    I have Stans Rims on my bikes (one with kings and one with DT 240's).

    I have questions:
    • Comments about durability of the AM Classics- RIMS and SS hubs? I weigh 200 with gear on and ride Rigid SS in Neast (live in PA)
    • I dont want white spokes, not really, so what choices do I have- pist pics of your builds- do I really have a good shoice withoug getting a bunch of anodized colored spokes?
    • Has anyone ridden both stans and am classics with comparative ride quality comments? I know spokes, hubs make a difference on the feel but ill go with general info....
    • Do the AM classic hubs seal well with tubless tires and rim tape or will i have to use tubes- that will be a killer.


    Help me decide...

  2. #2
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    Down with whitey!
    This computer system is not intended for use in the operation of nuclear facilities. -Mac

  3. #3
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    Personally, I wouldn't care if the white rims matched my bike so well that they won me an award. The white rims are powdercoated and weigh a fair bit more than the regular black anodized versions.

    As far as hubs go, the American Classics are nice enough, but their engagement is really lacking. Some people on the boards do not think engagement is important, but it is one feature I personally do not like to compromise on. The DT's are also a very nice option if you are looking for a light weight hub the will last for a long time. DT now offers their 36 step star ratchet upgrade kit which is very cool. People who don't mind lower engagement can have it, and those that want to double it can have their preferred setup.

    I just feel the American Classics are step down in terms of performance from either the Kings or the DT's.

  4. #4
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    engagement is VERY key with me on the SS. Kings work great. good to know.

    weight- ill look it up online....if its tiny i dont care really...if ita 1/2-1 lb thats another story..im not a weight weenie but i know what i know about wheels and weight and rolling resistance etc...

  5. #5
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    I just inquired about the weight differences in another thread. Apparently the weight increase per rim is around 30grams, but in another thread someone quoted up to 50-60grams (I have never seen any scale pics or weighed them myself so I can't comment from first hand experience...but the fact that Notubes doesn't list the weights for the powdercoated rims is probably a good indicator). I was considering the white Notubes rims until I found that out, black it is!

    Also using Kings for my next wheel build for the exact same reasons. Depending on your dropout system, you can ditch the fun-bolts on the King SS hubs and have it setup for standard QR which is lighter. If engagement is important, the hub is probably the best place in the wheel to carry the extra weight. I'd also go with a King + Stans combo, and avoid the AC route.

  6. #6
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    Have QR on the stand ss hubs already. this is good info too. thanks.

  7. #7
    veldrijder
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    Quote Originally Posted by nspace
    I was considering the white Notubes rims until I found that out, black it is!
    As nice as the white is, the weight of the powdercoat is just too much for the weight weenie in me.

    Depending on your dropout system, you can ditch the fun-bolts on the King SS hubs and have it setup for standard QR which is lighter.
    Depending how heavy your skewer is the fun-bolts can be lighter (they are hollow, after all) and they are certainly more secure feeling. Fun bolts = 42g - 6g for QR endcaps = 36g. There are not a lot of skewer options in that weight range that aren't bolt on already (then why not use funbolts, right?) or use Ti shafts (not as stiff).

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmoote
    As nice as the white is, the weight of the powdercoat is just too much for the weight weenie in me.
    Plus the white rims cost more. I think it is against the mountain bike rules to pay more for something that adds weight.

  9. #9
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    The set of 355 29ers I have weighed were in the 460-470 gram range. That is a lot of weight for just white powdercoat. The 355's I weighed recently were 415-420gr. So the white samples I weighed were 40-50 grams heavier. For that extra weight you can have powdercoat, or you can have a stiffer rim in the Arch. I would take a black Arch that weighed 470-480 over a white 355 that weighed 460-470.

    The others advice below is very good about the Fun Bolts too. They are awesome.

  10. #10
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    I wan to chime in a point out I9 as a good hub contender. They engage better than CK (I have both and there is a difference) and rolls and rolls. They only gripe I have is i9 you requires you to purchase a cog, lock ring and spacers. With CK all comes inclusive.

  11. #11
    Closekids.com
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    These are going to be hard for me to pass on. Brand new from AC.

    http://www.amclassic.com/products/mt...s/overview.php

    Having a problem w/ the link. It is the new 29er Tubeless. Looks sweet in two colors!
    Last edited by BoomingSooner; 01-25-2010 at 05:18 AM.
    Me to my riding buddy, "Want to ride this afternoon?"
    Him, "I can't. I have to chop this guys foot off at 2".

  12. #12
    Closekids.com
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    By the way, I think you could sneeze 30g.
    Me to my riding buddy, "Want to ride this afternoon?"
    Him, "I can't. I have to chop this guys foot off at 2".

  13. #13
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonw9
    Plus the white rims cost more. I think it is against the mountain bike rules to pay more for something that adds weight.
    +1 on that.

    Although I pay a $3.00 more a 3 Pack for colored BVD's as opposed to the cheaper tighty whiteys. I'll have to throw them on a digital scale and see if the black ones are actually lighter.

  14. #14
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    link does not work. your link suggestion has their site slammed...probably temporary.

    TD! indy.

  15. #15
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    better engagement thank CK's? i must not have paid attention to other posts on I9's. is this a qualified rave or opinion endorsed by at least 3 other posters? which is all it takes to become fact on mtbr!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomingSooner
    By the way, I think you could sneeze 30g.
    Boogers are not rotating weight!

  17. #17
    don't try this at home
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    i'm building up a set of white blunts and CK's. from what i've read they're comparable to flows, but cost less. i'm not a weight weenie, so 30-60 grams isn't gonna make much of difference either way. a sneeze, a haircut or even a shave will save me more weight then getting black rims, which would not match as well as white rims.
    will you rep me?

  18. #18
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    I agree with the Arch vs. 355 in white. If you are going to have the weight make it functional.

  19. #19
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    I've ridden the Stans rims exclusively for the last 3 years. Love them. Arch and Flow for me. I also have the I9 SS hubs, King SS hubs and 240 SS hubs. These have all performed very well over the years. Little to no service on all. You get what you pay for with these three. All laced to Stans wheels. I'm currently lacing another set of King / Flows. The I9 has the best engagement, followed by King, then DT.

    Weight wise, the DT is lighter by about 20 grams over the King. The I9 hub itself is a little heavier, but not much.

    AM Classics? Never ridden, never will. Too many bad reports by others over the years.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  20. #20
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    this thread is def making me think about looking at the I9's. better engagement than kings...and it does not get much better....so when time comes...maybe ill pull the trigger. are the I9's durable like kings? little to no srevice is my style.

  21. #21
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    From Industry Nine's website:

    DRIVER : 120 point, 3 degree engagement, 6 pawl mechanism

    From Chris King's website:

    All of our rear hubs utilize our patented RingDrive™ engagement mechanism. RingDrive™ uses 72 engagement teeth on each drive ring.

    So it is the difference of an engagement point every 3 degrees for I9 vs. 5 degrees for Chris King. Similar weights between the two, similar price, although Chris King ISO SS disc hubs come with lockring, spacers and 18t cog.

  22. #22
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    Durability vs. service

    Both hubs are extremely durable. That being said, both are very high end, race quality hubsets which will possibly need servicing a couple of times per season depending on the enviroment and conditions in which they are being ridden.

    The Chris King hubs feature serviceable bearings with metal and rubber seals. The Ring Drive is also serviceable by a shop possessing the proper tools. There is a lot of argument over which is better, the Ring Drive of the CK which engages all 72 points at once, vs the I9's pawl based engagement. The CK freehub body also rolls on extremely durable needle bearings.

    The I9 hubs utilize high quality ABEC bearings (from what I have seen, maybe that has changed). While not serviceable, the ABEC's are very well sealed, and spin a little more freely than the CK bearings. Also since the I9's utilize traditional pawls, they need servicing a little more often than the Ring Drive. That being said, you can pull their hubs apart with an allen wrench and service the freehub mechanism in the peace of your own home.

    Both are nice, and have their advantages and disadvantages.

  23. #23
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    I agree with everything ia ss157 said. I can't stress enough that with King or I9, you get what you pay for. DT's are very nice and reliable, just lacking the engagement of the other two.

    I ride in AZ, so not a lot of mud, snow or ice to contend with. Stan's rims are bullet proof in the rocks we ride. Easy tubeless set-up is also nice.

    You can't go wrong with either.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  24. #24
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    i have ridden kings for 15 years and stans since they came out....the I9 love is impressive....

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmoote
    As nice as the white is, the weight of the powdercoat is just too much for the weight weenie in me.

    Depending how heavy your skewer is the fun-bolts can be lighter (they are hollow, after all) and they are certainly more secure feeling. Fun bolts = 42g - 6g for QR endcaps = 36g. There are not a lot of skewer options in that weight range that aren't bolt on already (then why not use funbolts, right?) or use Ti shafts (not as stiff).
    Yeah I am definitely going with the black after finding that out. Too much weight just for a colour. And to pay a slightly higher price for it...blah.

    My understanding is the fun-bolts alone, minus the caps, are 42g. How much heavier are the QR caps vs. the threaded bolt on caps? I can't find that data on the King site. I'll also be using KCNC Ti skewers (46g for the set) since I am not very heavy. I can't imagine using bolt-on hubs with the sliding dropouts (I have to remove the rear wheel to put the bike in my trunk a lot of times).

    A few guys here have had problems with the I9 drive mechanism failing. I wish I knew more details. I was originally considering them instead of Kings, but people seem to have a lot of faith in the ring-drive. I love trying new stuff, so I could see if you wanted to give the I9's a shot. I'm sure you would be pleased either way!

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