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  1. #1
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    What Large Volume 650b Tires Clear a TRc and X-Fusion Velvet?

    I'm going for the 650b conversion on my TRc. But before spending $60-$80 per tire, I'd like to know what large volume tires clear.

    I like aggro tread and high volume and would hate to spend those dollars if there werent much clearance. The Schwalbe NN and R. Ralphs look good on their website but what widths are they? From the pictures, it looks like the NN is good for front and RR for rear.

    What tires have been tried and trued?
    Last edited by myitch; 11-20-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Largest I've had in the back of the TRc is a 2.35 Nevegal and the new 2.35 Nobby Nic.....maybe 7mm of clearance, dry weather only.

  3. #3
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    What rim was the tire on? How you liking that 650b TRc and NN tire? What you have up front?
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  4. #4
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    Probably had one, if not the first conversions I know of back in September last year.

    First off with American Classics and RaRa then I had 2 sets of Stans Crest/Hope hubs again with RaRa for trailriding and the 2nd set of wheels with 2.35 Nevegals for shuttle days.

    Both tyres I mentioned in the my other post are on Stans Crest.

  5. #5
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    Which Velvet, which year? I have a 2011 (or 2010) Velvet RL without the 605b shim and when fully compressed, a NeoMoto 2.3 on Alex XD Lite (a narrow rim) just clears the crown. With the shim installed, you should have plenty of clearance for the biggest tires.

  6. #6
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    The new NN 2.35" tire measures 2.3" with my caliper so width is no issue. About 711mm tall though (almost 28") and this is where you'll need to shim the shock even more on a TRc if you want to run that tire. The Velvet or a regular Fox fork would need to be shimmed or you would have crown contact at bottom out.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    The new NN 2.35" tire measures 2.3" with my caliper so width is no issue. About 711mm tall though (almost 28") and this is where you'll need to shim the shock even more on a TRc if you want to run that tire. The Velvet or a regular Fox fork would need to be shimmed or you would have crown contact at bottom out.
    What do you mean even 'more'? More than what? I plan to run a NN or HD on the rear of my TRc so your words of experience are appreciated.
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  8. #8
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    Even more?
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Even more?
    This goes back to history. You should be able to find threads about rear shock shimming for NeoMoto 2.3 clearance for a bunch of frames. Neo 2.3 used to be the benchmark tire for conversions. I am guessing that by even more, Skidad means more than what was discussed in the past as sufficient for it.

  10. #10
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    Everything I've read so far states that the nobby nic 2.35's are much bigger than the neo-moto. As someone who is looking to B a TRc, I' think I'm going to go nobby nic 2.25 in rear b/c I THINK what skidad meant is that the schwalbe tires are bigger than the pacenti's thus requiring more travel limitations.
    from what I read from a poster's conversion, Shimming the shock 3mm reduces travel by almost 10mm. I don't want to loose any more travel than that.

  11. #11
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    Oh, that's what I was afraid of, losing more travel to accommodate bigger meats. We're already going to have to shock shim for any 650b tire. It's not like 125mm is a ton of travel already and to lose more is just not worth it. I think I'll have to go the 2.25 route also for NN. Now that might be too small compared to the 2.35 HD I plan for up front. It might be a motocross bike...

    Just how much bigger are the 2.35 NN than the largest Neo Moto anywaz?
    Wait a minute. On bikediscount (Germany) the NN's aren't available in a 2.25. Are they elsewhere?
    Last edited by myitch; 11-26-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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    I have a NN coming on Wed. so I'll take some before and after pics of the difference in clearance (currently on a Neo moto 2.3) I don't plan on adding more than the 3mm of shims I already have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Wait a minute. On bikediscount (Germany) the NN's aren't available in a 2.25. Are they elsewhere?
    Yup, here you go - Schwalbe Nobby Nic 650b/27.5"" x 2.25 Tubeless Ready Folding Pacestar Tires - Pro Bike Supply

  14. #14
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    dang. $20 more than bikediscount's 2.35 NN. is this the cheapest price around?
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    dang. $20 more than bikediscount's 2.35 NN. is this the cheapest price around?
    How much do the Germans charge for shipping? The last time I ordered RaRas from Germany, shipping was like 50% of the total.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    How much do the Germans charge for shipping? The last time I ordered RaRas from Germany, shipping was like 50% of the total.
    I paid $26.48 shipping on 4 schwalbe evo tires from bike-discount the beginning of the month. (And still am waiting for them to arrive.) Order worked out to $46 a tire shipped.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    This goes back to history. You should be able to find threads about rear shock shimming for NeoMoto 2.3 clearance for a bunch of frames. Neo 2.3 used to be the benchmark tire for conversions. I am guessing that by even more, Skidad means more than what was discussed in the past as sufficient for it.
    Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Thanks StiHacka

    The Nobby Nick 2.35 measures about 711mm in diameter where the Neo Moto measures approx. 698.5mm. A Nevegal 2.35 is approx 704mm and my WTB Wolverine 2.2's are also approx 704mm in diameter.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    I have a NN coming on Wed. so I'll take some before and after pics of the difference in clearance (currently on a Neo moto 2.3) I don't plan on adding more than the 3mm of shims I already have.
    What size you planning on putting back in the rear? Pics would be great and very helpful. My 650b wheels are on the way and I need to order tires soon.

    I plan to go 2.35 HD front and would like a 2.35 NN rear, but I'll wait to see what you're running. Thanks
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  20. #20
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    I test fitted a 2.3 Neo Moto on the rear of my TRc the other day and it was a super tight fit already. I shimmed the shock using 3mm of washers and even then at full compression the tire just buzzes the front derailleur cable and the wheel was somewhat tough to install due to the axle hitting the derailleur hanger when you are trying to put the wheel on.
    If the NN 2.35s are any bigger in diameter than the Neo Motos then I don't think they would fit.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    I test fitted a 2.3 Neo Moto on the rear of my TRc the other day and it was a super tight fit already. I shimmed the shock using 3mm of washers and even then at full compression the tire just buzzes the front derailleur cable and the wheel was somewhat tough to install due to the axle hitting the derailleur hanger when you are trying to put the wheel on.
    If the NN 2.35s are any bigger in diameter than the Neo Motos then I don't think they would fit.
    Well, then. No go on Neo Motos. Thanks for that info.

    What's the "next" biggest tire then for the TRc rear? The NN 2.25? What did Francois use?
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Well, then. No go on Neo Motos. Thanks for that info.

    What's the "next" biggest tire then for the TRc rear? The NN 2.25? What did Francois use?
    The 2.3 Neo Moto works fine on the rear of a TRc. I've bottomed my shock out plenty of times with it and haven't had an issue. It did buzz my Big Air tire inflator that was in my seatpost. I just flipped that upside down. I have pics around this thread or on the SC TRc thread of the tire clearance with the TR. Just off the top of my head it's about .25-.3" of clearance in front of the tire and about the same on the sides.
    I do have my shock shimmed 3 mm's.
    I'm not convinced its needed as I don't think you can achieve full compression of the shock with it aired up. I figured it's cheap and easy insurance so I shimmed it anyways. There is no noticeable change in the ride with the shims.

  23. #23
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    Here is the view of a 2.3 NeoMoto from underneath on a TRc:


  24. #24
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    I have ordered a NN 2.25 recently and I am hoping it will work in RS Lyrik. I'll compare it with the 2.3 Neo when it arrives.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I paid $26.48 shipping on 4 schwalbe evo tires from bike-discount the beginning of the month. (And still am waiting for them to arrive.) Order worked out to $46 a tire shipped.
    Me too - 4 tires (2 folding + 2 wire bead studded) shipped to Canada in just under 3 weeks for $28.

  26. #26
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    I decided to order a Maxxis Ardent 2.25 for the rear. I hoping that will fit. Those pics of the Neo Moto rear clearance is pretty tight. I don't know if the Ardent will fit and if that Neo Moto clearance is the "norm" but I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's more than the Neo Moto. I'll post pics when I can to help youse out.

    Update: I just saw that Neo Moto picture. I would've gotten that one since it's already proven. Oh well, we'll see how this Ardent fits and rides.
    Last edited by myitch; 11-27-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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  27. #27
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    Update #2: I just installed a 2.35 NN in the rear and shimmed the shock with four 3/8" nylon washers. There's actually more clearance than I thought there'd be. I have about 3mm clearance from the back of the swingarm/BB area and 1mm from my front derailleur cable. I'll update after a trail ride soon.
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  28. #28
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    shimmed the shock with four 3/8" nylon washers
    You shimmed your shock 1.5 inches?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    You shimmed your shock 1.5 inches?
    No, the ID hole is 3/8". The total stack might be about 3mm or so.

    And BTW, my Schwalbe HD fit with plenty of room on the Velvet fork. Nice. Cant wait to ride this puppy.
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  30. #30
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    Ahhh. That makes more since.
    That's how much mine is shimmed. Haven't had a chance
    to mount the NN yet, so good to know it will work in the rear.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    No, the ID hole is 3/8". The total stack might be about 3mm or so.

    And BTW, my Schwalbe HD fit with plenty of room on the Velvet fork. Nice. Cant wait to ride this puppy.
    How much travel do you lose with the 3mm of shims?

    NN 2.35" is as tall as they come so I'm surprised you only had to shim it that much.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    How much travel do you lose with the 3mm of shims?

    NN 2.35" is as tall as they come so I'm surprised you only had to shim it that much.
    I'm not sure how much actual travel I lost but the shock stroke lost about 3/8" from the end. I didn't measure, just an estimate. Not too concerned though.

    I had a short maiden voyage on my newly 650B'd TRc. In a word: AWESOME!
    I rode up my local trail which is littered with sharp-edged rocks, couple of tight turns, fast sections, very small 4" launchers which are great at high speed. I've ridden this trail probably about 1000 times on about 8 different bikes over the years.

    The TRc climbed better than before (with 26" wheels), though with slightly more effort to keep the larger OD going, but easier over the rocks. Going down was a total blast. I had more confidence than before and felt nearly as fast as my HD (with 170mm coil front and 160mm rear). I didn't feel the lost rear shock travel difference.

    Even with the large 2.35 NN in the rear, it never buzzed anything and for sure I used up the rear shock stroke. The clearance is very tight at the yoke of the chainstays, but even with a little sticky mud on the trails, it didn't pack up. The NN's seem to shed the mud pretty well. HD front and NN rear is winner combo!!!

    Man, I am now sold on 650b! The TRc is such a great bike for this and with time, I might feel as fast down this rocky trail as my longer travel Ibis HD. And to think my TRc is 26lbs 7oz vs. my HD at 32lbs 5oz. One happy camper here.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    How much travel do you lose with the 3mm of shims?

    NN 2.35" is as tall as they come so I'm surprised you only had to shim it that much.
    I don't think you lose any travel in real world use.
    Even unshimmed you can't push the o-ring off of the shock shaft. If it is less than before it is imperceptible. I had the TR for 7 months before I made the switch to 650b. It doesn't feel like it has less travel now.

    @Myitch - I know you had some concerns with the RP23. How's it feeling to you?
    Last edited by mestapho; 12-15-2012 at 06:40 AM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    @Myitch - I know you had some concerns with the RP23. How's it feeling to you?
    Eh, mestapho.

    The RP23 seems fine. I like the Monarch on my HD and thought it may improve the TRc also. Its one of those you-don't-know-what-you're-missing-until-you-try-it type of questions. I've read mixed reviews on the Monarch's performance on the TRc.
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