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  1. #1
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    Velvet vs Revelation vs other?

    Hey, I'm looking to buy a 140-150mm fork that wont brake the bank for my new 650b hardtail build (burly am hardtail). These two forks seem to be at the top of my list with regards to price and performance. Does anyone have experience with both? Which would you recommend and why? Other options include the upcoming Mattoc and perhaps a White Bros Loop. I want to be able to fit a 2.4 tire up front so most 26" forks wont work.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    I have a Revelation dual position air and it's been a great fork. The dual air (not dual position) is essentially a Reba/Sid, which are fantastically simple and reliable, and have great trail manners.

  3. #3
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    Thanks! I'm leaning towards the Revelation because getting service for Rock Shox forks here is a bit easier than X-Fusion (Live in Sweden). I'll see if I can get a revelation on sale soon.

  4. #4
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    I'm currently running a Velvet 15mm QR @ 140mm on my converted Mojo SL. This is the 4th fork I've run with 650b wheels on this bike after a Fox Float 140 QR, an '09 Revelation 140/20mm Maxle (like the original Pike) Motion Control that had been Pushed, and a 2010 150mm/20mm Maxle Revelation XX. Both Rev's were 26" forks that I was running up to a 2.35 Nevegal on. All of these forks have straight 1&1/8 steerers.

    I'll start by saying I'm very happy with the Velvet. Fit/Finish/Materials are top notch.... the only other fork of this group that can match it in this regard was the latest Revelation.

    Weight-wise.....comparing the 150 Rev to the Velvet, the Revelation is lighter. I can't tell you exactly how much because it wasn't really an apples to apples comparison just due to logistics, but my Revelation weighed exactly 75 grams less than the Velvet despite the fact that it had a longer steerer tube, star nut installed (the Velvet did not), an extra 10mm travel, a 20mm thru, and the handlebar remote included. I guess you'd have to expect the 27.5 version to be slightly heavier than the 26, but considering all the items that the Rev had working against it in the weight department, I was really surprised to see that it was lighter than the Velvet....had to double take.

    Stiffness.... No question... the Revelation wins here. The Velvet is very good, but does not quite match the Rev in lateral stiffness when the going gets super techy. I can't say how much stiffness a current 27.5 Revelation would gain with the tapered steerer, vs loose with the smaller 15mm axle, but I'd bet a couple Ben Franklins that it will still be stiffer than the comparable Velvet. The Revelation chassis is solid AND light.

    Damping: I'm a compulsive twiddler, and was not convinced that I'd be happy with the limited adjustments on the Velvet, but it's actually really good. The mid-valve works as claimed, and allows a low enough air pressure to use full travel, while still staying up in the travel. I would not call it particularly plush in the small bump department, but I don't mean that in a bad way....it's not plush in the same way a well sorted sports car is not plush...firm and high performance. It is hands down the "best performance with zero twiddling" that I've ever gotten out of any fork. HOWEVER, the dual circuit rock shox dampers (which my first Revelation had, and the second one did not) could be tuned to work like the Velvet does, or could be tuned to be super stiff and racy, or suuuuuper plush, or more plush initially than the Velvet but with similar mid stroke support. However, you have to take the time to understand and experiment with the settings to access all that performance.

    Other comments.

    The Velvet will take big tires, but go really big and you will have to limit the travel to 130mm to prevent shoulder knobs from hitting the angled crown on full bottom-out.

    At the same travel the Velvet has about 5mm shorter axle to crown dimension, and both forks use 42mm offset, which is really good IMO with a head angle in the 67-68 deg range.

    I bought the Velvet because I wanted to get a proper 650b fork that would accept all the new fat tires that my conversion forks wouldn't, but I didn't want to sink tons of money because I want to replace the current bike soon and pass it down to my son. That made the price of the Velvet impossible to pass up (I paid $350 for it), and other than noticing a small loss in stiffness that I adjusted to pretty quickly, it's been all bliss....AMAZING PRODUCT FOR THE MONEY, and competitive with the competition even if it cost twice as much. However, I think the current Revelation platform is one of the masterpiece bike parts of the last 5 years, and would have been my choice without a moment's thought if I'd been in a position to throw $750 bucks at this bike.

    Summary.
    If you're a big or aggressive rider, you like to adjust and fine tune things, you have more money to throw at it, and you really don't want to go less than 140-150mm, then the Revelation is the way to go.
    If money's tight, you're a set it and forget it shut up and ride kinda guy, or you've never been one to notice flex in any of your bike parts, then the Velvet can't be beat.

    Either way you'll get a really well built, reliable, solid performing fork.

  5. #5
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    They call the velvet a 80-100mm travel fork on the website now. Says the 140mm travel model is not 27.5 compatible.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck View Post
    They call the velvet a 80-100mm travel fork on the website now. Says the 140mm travel model is not 27.5 compatible.
    RL2 is still listed available in 140mm size that can be limited to work with 650b wheels. It just came back in stock on Universal according to the email I got last week

    The RL2R (remote lockout) version is only sold in 80/100mm, probably because they see the remote feature as being more XC racing oriented and they can help keep the weight down by cutting the stanchions shorter.

    AFAIK the 140mm DLA version has never been listed as 650b compatible because the DLA spring can't accept the internal travel limiter needed to safely use 650b wheels.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for your answers, I'll see if I can score a Rev soon. Since I'm not really in a hurry I can wait until I can get one on sale.

  8. #8
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    The White Brothers Loop has been a great fork for me. I don't know how easy it would be for you to get one over there, but they're worth considering.

  9. #9
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    Another big up for the Revelation. I can confidently blast through drops and the rockiest stuff without thinking too much. Pick a line, aim the bike and try not to hold on too tight. Stiff, light and the RCT3 damper (Motion Control DNA) is really great. Settings of fully open, adjustable low-speed and full low-speed (lockout) are just perfect for me. They call this the 'descenders damper' because it uses more oil that the XX.

    I run the 2.2 Honey Badger in that fork and it's WAY bigger than the 2.3 Nevegal, 2.25 Ardent and 2.3 NeoMoto. No problem for you to drop a 2.5 in there.

    mk
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbildr View Post
    Another big up for the Revelation. I can confidently blast through drops and the rockiest stuff without thinking too much. Pick a line, aim the bike and try not to hold on too tight. Stiff, light and the RCT3 damper (Motion Control DNA) is really great. Settings of fully open, adjustable low-speed and full low-speed (lockout) are just perfect for me. They call this the 'descenders damper' because it uses more oil that the XX.

    I run the 2.2 Honey Badger in that fork and it's WAY bigger than the 2.3 Nevegal, 2.25 Ardent and 2.3 NeoMoto. No problem for you to drop a 2.5 in there.

    mk
    Is this RE: the 2013, or the 2014 Rev.? The LBS just got a 2014 in, which I know has the Rapid Recovery rebound damping of the Pike. Not sure if it gets the Charge damper too.

    I picked up a Velvet recently for next to nothing...$125+ some parts trade. One real ride and so far so good. I have heard many places that it takes 10+ hours to have it really smooth out.

    The one thing I notice is the increased offset.

  11. #11
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    I'd probably go for the 2013 model as it will be cheaper.

  12. #12
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    Last I checked, they were the same price on UniversalCycles.com...not too hard to get a 15% discount there.

    As nice as the 2013 may be, reviews of the new Pike would make me want to go for the 2014, even if it is a little more $$. Plus the diffusion black, w/ black stancions looks awesome.

  13. #13
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    No Charger damper in the Revelation. I have a 2012 WC CSU with 2013 275 lowers so I'm running a franken fork. There are no 275 Revelations available with the carbon CSU so I have a bit of a one-off. Probably the lightest 150 275 fork out there...

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  14. #14
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    if you don't mind me asking fr0sty, what frame are you going with? thinking of doing a similar build.

  15. #15
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    Hey I'm looking very hard at two frames:

    The upcoming On-One 45650b ( 45650b | Brant Blog | News - As Seen On TV )

    or

    the upcoming Bird Zero ( https://www.facebook.com/birdmtb.co.uk )

    These should fit the bill quite well.

  16. #16
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    And another question...what is the consensus on buying forks used? Yay or nay? (or depends?)

  17. #17
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    Re: Velvet vs Revelation vs other?

    Quote Originally Posted by fr0sty View Post
    And another question...what is the consensus on buying forks used? Yay or nay? (or depends?)
    Most likely you will need to service the fork - clean it, exchange the oil, probably seals. You should also check it for potential scratches. If you can try it before you buy will also help

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Most likely you will need to service the fork - clean it, exchange the oil, probably seals. You should also check it for potential scratches. If you can try it before you buy will also help
    Thanks...I've decided to wait for the Sweep as well. I think that the Sweep and the Revelation will be very close in price but the sweep will be closer to the PIKE in performance and stiffness.

  19. #19
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    I'm on a '13 Revelation solo air 27.5 and waiting patiently for the sweep or an amazing deal on a Pike. No complaints with the Rev but I'm a lightweight although I do quite a bit of jumps and I'm wondering if the creaks I'm starting to hear are coming from the fork.

  20. #20
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    I'm also interested in the 45650b, my other thoughts were the new NS Eccentric that's coming out, or the new Surly Instigator on 27.5s. Can't make up my mind. I've also seen people running longer forks on Kona Explosifs, but I'm worried it will make the bike choppered out.

  21. #21
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    To update this thread, I got a deal on a 13 Revelation that I couldn't say no to. I'll keep you guys updated with how it goes. I have nothing to compare it to, except a Duke XC from about 6 years ago so keep that in mind.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by fr0sty View Post
    To update this thread, I got a deal on a 13 Revelation that I couldn't say no to. I'll keep you guys updated with how it goes. I have nothing to compare it to, except a Duke XC from about 6 years ago so keep that in mind.
    Sheeeeiiiiiite...you'll be blown away.

    So how much is a "couldn't say no" price these days?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Sheeeeiiiiiite...you'll be blown away.

    So how much is a "couldn't say no" price these days?
    $350...(month old).

  24. #24
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    A rev should be fine for a hard tail build. I've been curious to try a X fusion but lack of user serviceability puts me off.
    Love the monarch shock but haven't been won over by the Rev.I've had two revs 2011 and 2013[ still got them in the shed] and they are great for mild terrain. nice big mid range good small bump compliance. Hit anything at speed though and the primative comp damping lets them down.Too much high speed compression and too linear. 2011 Fox Float 150 was similar with too much high speed comp damping.Swore i wasn't going to get another Fox fork unless I could dial up everything. They are all over the park with their ride from year to year , OEM, and travel . I haven't bought another Fox fork until 2013 F36. At least with the Rev the ride is consistant no matter what year, whether it's OEM and travel. From 2011 I've been on Marz and DT Swiss forks and haven't looked back. Superb mid range yet don't have the high speed spikes. Sounds like they may have been working towards that with the Pike ?The Dt swiss forks eat the revs for stiffness too.
    Just waiting for a 650B fork and long travel 29er from either of these companies. The hype on the Pike hasn't got me convinced. I'm sticking to what I know works after trying dozens of forks. I''m now buying bikes to match my current forks , not the other way round.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    ...I've been curious to try a X fusion but lack of user serviceability puts me off.

    ...Hit anything at speed though and the primative comp damping lets them down.Too much high speed compression and too linear. 2011 Fox Float 150 was similar with too much high speed comp damping....
    This is why I love X-Fusion. Excellent racing fork, stays high in its travel, never feels overwhelmed in compression even in some very nasty fast terrain, refuses to dive under braking, and reliable as the day is long.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I've had two revs 2011 and 2013[ still got them in the shed] and they are great for mild terrain. nice big mid range good small bump compliance. Hit anything at speed though and the primative comp damping lets them down.Too much high speed compression and too linear.
    Yes, I noticed the high speed spiking on my first Revelation... higher flow Push damper changed that completely.
    The XX damper is blah for aggressive trail riding and lacks small bump compliance....buying that version was a mistake.... but the chassis is pretty impressive otherwise in terms of weight, stiffness, and overall quality, IMO. I haven't tried a DT fork because they're twice the price.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fr0sty View Post
    Thanks...I've decided to wait for the Sweep as well. I think that the Sweep and the Revelation will be very close in price but the sweep will be closer to the PIKE in performance and stiffness.
    Im running a sweep on a Bird Zero right now and its a great fork. This ones down to a 150mm travel, but it goes as far as 100 (if you're that way inclined). Super easy to adjust the travel BUT a pain to put back together without the special tool to pull the damper back through the CSU. So best get it done at the shop.

    Velvet vs Revelation vs other?-1381534_193939950791563_725664297_n.jpg

    Incase you're interested this will be available as a frame/fork/headset/axle bundle when the frame comes out.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by benpinnick View Post
    Im running a sweep on a Bird Zero right now and its a great fork. This ones down to a 150mm travel, but it goes as far as 100 (if you're that way inclined). Super easy to adjust the travel BUT a pain to put back together without the special tool to pull the damper back through the CSU. So best get it done at the shop.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Incase you're interested this will be available as a frame/fork/headset/axle bundle when the frame comes out.
    Hey Ben, I'm getting my revelation today, but I'll certainly consider the Zero as far as frames are considered! Frame + wheelset bundle would be nice.

  29. #29
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    Yep, frame and wheelset bundle will be available too. With a certain brand of tyres available as frame/wheel/tyre/already tubelessed set up. The forks will be pretty competitively priced too as a bundle, so might be worth looking after those Revs and offloading again later. The Sweeps are almost as good as Pikes... and waaaaay stiffer than Revs (PS I like revs, but the Sweeps are just better).

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by benpinnick View Post
    Yep, frame and wheelset bundle will be available too. With a certain brand of tyres available as frame/wheel/tyre/already tubelessed set up. The forks will be pretty competitively priced too as a bundle, so might be worth looking after those Revs and offloading again later. The Sweeps are almost as good as Pikes... and waaaaay stiffer than Revs (PS I like revs, but the Sweeps are just better).
    Interesting, too bad money is tight...its going to be while till I get a frame but the price of the Rev was too good to pass. Sweep will be at least twice the price regardless...

  31. #31
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    I have to admit that I have ridden only Fox for the last 6+ years...never really had a problem. But I have one of the recall 2013 Talus forks and have heard more and more negative things about Fox. Planning to swap out the Talus (34mm 150mm with remote) for a 2013 Rev 150mm Dual Position that a buddy used until he picked up a Pike. I am very curious to hear what I should expect to feel. I ride an Intense Carbine reasonably aggressively, but I rode the same terrain without a problem on a Superlight (26" wheels) for years. Dropping over a pound by simply changing the fork will mean as much to me as the other benefits considering that I weigh only 140lb!

  32. #32
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    Re: Velvet vs Revelation vs other?

    At 150mm of travel you should go with a Pike...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    At 150mm of travel you should go with a Pike...
    If I could afford it...

  34. #34
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    Re: Velvet vs Revelation vs other?

    Quote Originally Posted by fr0sty View Post
    If I could afford it...
    My reply was for mjj1066.
    You got a great deal on the revelation. :thumbup:
    Nice and light fork, great for a HT.

  35. #35
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    I am getting a really fair deal on the Revelation and cannot justify the additional expense of the Pike...

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