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  1. #1
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    Specialized's statement/stance on 650b 2013

    The 650b question near the bottom of http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/ar...unched-34567/…

    As for going over to the much-hyped new wheel size of 650b (27.5in), Specialized openly said that they were reluctant to make the switch while there’s limited size-specific equipment available (forks, wheels, tyres, and so on) to let them do what they want.

    On top of that, they also remarked on the minimal difference you get jumping from 26in to 650b wheels compared to going from 26in to 29in wheels.

    Although there are no 650b machines for 2013, Specialized were quick to point out they wouldn’t rule it out in the future.

  2. #2
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    "Innovate or die"

    Pretty hard to innovate when you are waiting for everyone else to make stuff for you to use.

    Does that mean they only have one option left?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    As for going over to the much-hyped new wheel size of 650b (27.5in), Specialized openly said that they were reluctant to make the switch while there’s limited size-specific equipment available (forks, wheels, tyres, and so on) to let them do what they want.
    I thought Specialized had their own lines of forks, wheels and tires..what else do they need?
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    "limited size-specific equipment available (forks, wheels, tyres, and so on) to let them do what they want. "

    Is this not a "zombie" excuse that went out window when Fox, RS, Enve, Schwalbe, Hutchinson to name a few companies, started selling 650b components this year.

    Spec's excuse might have made sense in 2010 and 2011, but not now.

    They are correct that the jump from 26 to 27.5 is not as dramatic as from 26 to 29. So what? Not all of characteristics of 29 are desirable. Which is one of the reasons for a middle size wheel.

    They will rule 27.5" in when and if other bike companies sell a lot of 27.5" bikes in 2013.

    Meanwhile Spec, Trek, Giant, Santa Cruz etc will market 29" while fans of their 26" bikes keep converting them to 27.5" with all those "unavailable" components. Missed opportunities there.


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  5. #5
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    specialized died for me in the 90's

    they are just copy cats of everything. very conservative and nothing "special" at all.....

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    Buy an Intense.. I know I want one of the new Tracer 27s!

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    As much as I love my Epic, I do not love Specialized. They are always followers, NEVER innovators. They love to jump on bandwagons late and use their massive marketing ability to make people think they did it first and better than everyone else.
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  8. #8
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    Its funny how some of us have been running 650b Spec bikes for a while now. And how the bike came alive when the new hoops and tires went on.

    That said my next bike will not have an S on the head tube.

  9. #9
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    Spec came along late in the game with 29ers. But once in, they did very well. Watching and waiting has worked for them before.

  10. #10
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    I think its refreshing that S not jumping the bandwagon basically says, "wait a minute - does anyone really need this marginal product?" And changing the wheel size following Gary Fisher intro of 29, is that really innovation anymore - I think its a no-brainer and more than anything just a way to make us want a new bike - which I always do anyway..

  11. #11
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    They will make one. Similar excuse they used with 29ers. They will come to the market with a well thought out 650B.

  12. #12
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    Aaaannnd....then sue everyone on their Rolodex that was doing it successfully, with the technology that they didn't invent.
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    And then we eat them."

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    Yep. Or they'll file patent applications for stuff already patented which they know about but won't mention on the application as prior art. Specialized is tooo invested in 29ers now to admit they went the wrong way on larger wheel sizes. But after all their team riders spend the whole season losing on 29ers to 650b riders, they will change their tune.
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    .... loosing to someone with 1.5" less dia wheels, you mean? If this continues, someone may start racing on 26" ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelH View Post
    .... loosing to someone with 1.5" less dia wheels, you mean? If this continues, someone may start racing on 26" ;-)
    Dang ... they should start racing with 36r's then. That thing should fly on the course with wheels of that size !!!

  16. #16
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    There is a large investment in designing and releasing a new product especially for a company like specialized that has interest in keeping their name intact. That being said, they said the same thing about 29ers and look where we are.
    They are still winning on 29ers
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    They are still winning on 29ers
    When the 650b guy isn't there Just j/k ...

  18. #18
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelH View Post
    .... loosing to someone with 1.5" less dia wheels, you mean? If this continues, someone may start racing on 26" ;-)
    You're a looser baby.... (no. 1 misspelled word in English? I think so)
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  19. #19
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    as much as i am a fan of 650b i think specs approach is smart. see how it plays out, and develop something well thought out if the market takes off. because despite more niche brands taking off the true test really come in 2013.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    They will make one. Similar excuse they used with 29ers. They will come to the market with a well thought out 650B.
    I agree 100%. In fact they have a bunch of prototypes riding around places without
    the S badges, being quietly tested by S employees. Its being tight-lipped with bikes
    not being ridden at famous bike parks or on popular trails.

    The big S bike shops superstores aren't even privy to the testing as some minimum wage employee may take a pic of a S 650b post it somewhere and then it will be all over. So I bet the testing is like the military or GM, riding the thing around in flat black or gray somewheres.

    And don't think they didn't send a blue print to China for a rear carbon 650b triangle. Oh I can hear
    a front triangle snapping on their bench and the R&D dudes clapping after 1800lbs of pressure.

    These guys are only 2nd to Giant with bicycle world domination, so they have the bucks.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelH View Post
    "wait a minute - does anyone really need this marginal product?"
    really?
    this is the 650b forum.
    This statement pretty much labels you as a Troll. Please return to the 29er forum...or whatever bridge you normally lurk under.

    my apologies if I misunderstood.

  22. #22
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    The MBA article even mentioned Spez may be trying out their own wheel size , possibly slightly bigger than a 650B. Haven't we already got that. 650A.

    But having all three wheel size bikes I can see where Spez is coming from. You can design a 29er to feel like a 650b and if you get it wrong , vice versa.

    That doesn't get around the other issues of 29er limitaions on large travel bikes and the sizing issue with 29ers and smaller riders.

    The sizing issue is not in the marketing speel for current 650B due to lack of short travel forks, which Spez can get mfg'd themselves.

  23. #23
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    Its truly amazing to me that so many people in this MTB market have to have their hands held and wait for a monolith like Specialized to do something before they will try it. The big four (Trek,Spec,SC,Giant) are going to be slow on the uptake because the have 29ers to sell.
    Why not reward the agility of smaller companies willing that are open to try new things. OR build a set of 27.5" wheels and put them on your current 26" bike if they will fit. Quit reading about it and do it. You may find that you dont have to wait for anyone. ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    really?
    this is the 650b forum.
    This statement pretty much labels you as a Troll. Please return to the 29er forum...or whatever bridge you normally lurk under.

    my apologies if I misunderstood.
    Sorry, the name of the thread is S stance on 650. After having read x postings basically slagging of Specialised, I thought a small portion of understanding was in order.

    I'm happily riding a Scott 26". With regards to 26, 27.5 or 29... quite undecided really. From Norway, where the Trolls come from :-)

  25. #25
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    I saw in the XC forum that specialize is does not have 26" XC bike in their 2013 line-up. So all 29ers or long travel 26. So I get the impression that specilaized is looking at the 650b size, but is sending mixed signals for 2013. Two reasons. 1) To keep selling 29ers. 2) To buy time to work on their own650b.

    I ride a 26' hardtail. Not big fan of the numb feel of 29ers and I am starting to think 650b may be nice mix between teh 26 and 29" wheels for XC or short travel bikes ( HT or under 4") for guys wanting lighter more nimble bike. The reviews I have seen gives me the impression that 650b is the best of 29 and 26 together. Specialized has to experiment with this and find out for themselves. At least learn if the wheel size works and then determine if is is marketable and profitable.

    Personally I am going to sit back and watch and see. I have no need to change my bike or upgrade it right now, but when the time comes maybe 650b will be a clear winner. Maybe the fad will have passed? Who knows? The thing that I do know is that I have no desire to be an early adopter and potentially get stuck with dead end bike parts.
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    I could care less what Specialized does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post

    Personally I am going to sit back and watch and see. I have no need to change my bike or upgrade it right now, but when the time comes maybe 650b will be a clear winner. Maybe the fad will have passed? Who knows? The thing that I do know is that I have no desire to be an early adopter and potentially get stuck with dead end bike parts.
    If you are riding a conversion there are no worries about being "stuck" with dead parts. If 650b goes away, I will ride the crap out of the 650b parts I have until they die. I happen to have extra rims and a lot of tires, so that will be a while. By the time I kill all the 650b parts (just wheels and tires) if replacements are unavailable the bike can be returned to 26" to sell or simply parted out.

    At the very least, if 650b goes away, being an early adopter I have been able to ride for years on the best bike I have ever ridden.
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  28. #28
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    I couldn't care less, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex View Post
    I could care less what Specialized does.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    If you are riding a conversion there are no worries about being "stuck" with dead parts. If 650b goes away, I will ride the crap out of the 650b parts I have until they die. I happen to have extra rims and a lot of tires, so that will be a while. By the time I kill all the 650b parts (just wheels and tires) if replacements are unavailable the bike can be returned to 26" to sell or simply parted out.

    At the very least, if 650b goes away, being an early adopter I have been able to ride for years on the best bike I have ever ridden.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelH View Post

    I'm happily riding a Scott 26". With regards to 26, 27.5 or 29... quite undecided really.
    If you like Scott bikes , you soon will have to decide between 27.5 and 29. 26 is being phased out: starting with 2013 Genius. Only available as 27.5 and 29.


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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Personally I am going to sit back and watch and see. I have no need to change my bike or upgrade it right now, but when the time comes maybe 650b will be a clear winner. Maybe the fad will have passed? Who knows? The thing that I do know is that I have no desire to be an early adopter and potentially get stuck with dead end bike parts.
    Relax. The early adopters did it in 2009 and 2010. At that time, very few forks tires and rims available. Now in 2012, Fox and RS forks, many new tires and rims. 2013 many new bikes.

    It's too late to be an early adopter . Now you would be jumping onto a bandwagon, safe bet that the parts are not dead end.


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    Same as what they said about 29ers, I'm sure they are working away on 650b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    If you are riding a conversion there are no worries about being "stuck" with dead parts. If 650b goes away, I will ride the crap out of the 650b parts I have until they die. I happen to have extra rims and a lot of tires, so that will be a while. By the time I kill all the 650b parts (just wheels and tires) if replacements are unavailable the bike can be returned to 26" to sell or simply parted out.

    At the very least, if 650b goes away, being an early adopter I have been able to ride for years on the best bike I have ever ridden.
    I don't think 650b will ever go away. The big boys will start plugging them out at
    their Taiwan factories soon. But the name 650b may go away as it may be re badged as a 27". (easier to mass market)

  34. #34
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    no 650 from the big s and 650 coming from smaller companies , what is a man to do except get him self a 650 b from one of the smaller guys and make them a big guy..
    Power to the smaller guys.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Relax. The early adopters did it in 2009 and 2010. At that time, very few forks tires and rims available. Now in 2012, Fox and RS forks, many new tires and rims. 2013 many new bikes.

    It's too late to be an early adopter . Now you would be jumping onto a bandwagon, safe bet that the parts are not dead end.


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    650b is not in the bandwagon yet. I have never seena 650b on a trail ever. 29ers are all over the place and getting one of those is jumping on the bandwagon. 650 is still cutting edge stuff. You can't just get 650b tires, wheels, tubes just anywhere right now like you can with 26 or 29. I am not saying it won't get there, but it is not there now.
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    Let's see, Specialized has been around for what,30 years? I just read an interview with Mike S in which he was saying that it is his goal to is to make sure Specialized is a forever company. The effect of not selling 650b for a couple of seasons on the big picture? 0. They have the next 30+ years to continue to sell bikes. I don't think they need to rush anything to market, they are not going away, neither is the wheel size. Plenty of time for new and old customers to come.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    650b is not in the bandwagon yet. I have never seena 650b on a trail ever. 29ers are all over the place and getting one of those is jumping on the bandwagon. 650 is still cutting edge stuff. You can't just get 650b tires, wheels, tubes just anywhere right now like you can with 26 or 29. I am not saying it won't get there, but it is not there now.
    well said. I haven't seen a 650b at a race this year either. I would love to try one out because I do not feel like my position is low enough on my 29er. I have a plan, but I am excited about a 650b.
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  38. #38
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    +2 on this. I've never seen a 650b on the trail (besides mine) and in our metro area of 1,000,000+ people, I've never seen a 650b anything (tire, tube, rim) in a bike shop.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    650b is not in the bandwagon yet. I have never seena 650b on a trail ever. 29ers are all over the place and getting one of those is jumping on the bandwagon. 650 is still cutting edge stuff. You can't just get 650b tires, wheels, tubes just anywhere right now like you can with 26 or 29. I am not saying it won't get there, but it is not there now.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    650b is not in the bandwagon yet. I have never seena 650b on a trail ever. 29ers are all over the place and getting one of those is jumping on the bandwagon. 650 is still cutting edge stuff. You can't just get 650b tires, wheels, tubes just anywhere right now like you can with 26 or 29. I am not saying it won't get there, but it is not there now.
    No reason to split hairs. I would label 29'ers "mainstream". I agree 650b is still in its infancy, but is the new hot trend. I don't think it will disappear in the foreseeable future so that parts will become unavailable. 3 wheel sizes are here to stay.

    P.S. 26" tubes fit 650b for those who use tubes. :-)


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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    +2 on this. I've never seen a 650b on the trail (besides mine) and in our metro area of 1,000,000+ people, I've never seen a 650b anything (tire, tube, rim) in a bike shop.
    Ours is a $5,000,000 a year store. We have sold exactly to items 650B related so far. A pair of Nevegal tires, I bought them.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    Ours is a $5,000,000 a year store. We have sold exactly to items 650B related so far. A pair of Nevegal tires, I bought them.
    What bike brands do you carry? If Spec, Giant, Trek, Santa Cruz, C'dale then by definition you won't be selling 650b bikes in 2013. If any of the microbrews that will be making 650b, I would guess you will sell them out and may even have waiting lists by summer

    No doubt 2013 will be make or break for 650b bikes. If big sales of inventory by the little companies, then those big companies will be selling them 2014 and they will become mainstream. If not, they won't disappear but will remain niche.


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    One of the brands we sell will have a 650b model for 2013, I'm totally excited about it. Lucky for us we sell a big and a microbrew brand.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    One of the brands we sell will have a 650b model for 2013, I'm totally excited about it. Lucky for us we sell a big and a microbrew brand.
    I'd call you wise over "lucky'


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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    really?
    this is the 650b forum.
    This statement pretty much labels you as a Troll. Please return to the 29er forum...or whatever bridge you normally lurk under.

    my apologies if I misunderstood.
    When did MTBR become so close minded?

    Oh wait - its always had dweebs like you.

    Carry on then
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    When did MTBR become so close minded?

    Oh wait - its always had dweebs like you.

    Carry on then
    There is nothing open minded about staring flame wars with stupid blanket statements. Your post is very off topic, if you want to discuss open mindness and intellectual qualities of mtbr audience, I suggest you choose a different forum to do so.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    When did MTBR become so close minded?

    Oh wait - its always had dweebs like you.

    Carry on then
    Calling out a troll is not close minded. Find the right forum, post an on topic comment, and all is well. Go to a forum and post a comment for no reason but to start a fight or to advance an agenda, you will be called out.

    You contribute nothing of value or substance here. Why don't you find a forum you like and carry on? Troll.


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  47. #47
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    I'll be riding and testing two 650b bikes. I'm interested in the wheelsize. I think it has potential

    All I see is the defensiveness of you dwt and you StiHacka and you reformed roadie. ESPECIALLY you dwt. You're hostile to any discussion negative of 650b. Such small mindedness is bewildering. What made you so petty?

    EDIT: or maybe I'm identifying random knee-jerk responses to some perceived slight of something in which all of you are emotionally invested. In which case, I apologize and will resume passive reading and leave everyone to not-so-friendly debates.
    Last edited by LeeL; 07-18-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    All I see is the defensiveness of you dwt and you StiHacka and you reformed roadie. ESPECIALLY you dwt. You're hostile to any discussion negative of 650b. Such small mindedness is bewildering. What made you so petty?
    Not wanting to play devils advocate here but could you point to me where you find anything substantial or at least non-inflammatory in this ?

    .... loosing to someone with 1.5" less dia wheels, you mean? If this continues, someone may start racing on 26" ;-)
    OK, they could have given a better response but when you fish for insults you might get some.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    I'll be riding and testing two 650b bikes. I'm interested in the wheelsize. I think it has potential

    All I see is the defensiveness of you dwt and you StiHacka and you reformed roadie. ESPECIALLY you dwt. You're hostile to any discussion negative of 650b. Such small mindedness is bewildering. What made you so petty?

    EDIT: or maybe I'm identifying random knee-jerk responses to some perceived slight of something in which all of you are emotionally invested. In which case, I apologize and will resume passive reading and leave everyone to not-so-friendly debates.
    Really? First let me get defensive against being accused of being defensive of a wheel size. Count how many of my posts where I said " there is no one size fits all" "there is no best wheel size"; "All 3 wheel sizes have strong and weak points depending on rider skill and size, terrain and intended use of the bike"; "there will always be room for 3 mtb wheel sizes."

    I am indeed hostile to those I perceive as being know it alls or having a superiority complex; 29'er cool aid drinkers; and people who come into a forum trolling and calling people "dweebs" , then accusing others of being hostile.

    Dude, you need to take a good long look in the mirror.


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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsilva View Post
    Not wanting to play devils advocate here but could you point to me where you find anything substantial or at least non-inflammatory in this ?



    OK, they could have given a better response but when you fish for insults you might get some.
    good callout daniel- you're absolutely correct. I fished and it worked vvvvv


    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Really? First let me get defensive against being accused of being defensive of a wheel size. Count how many of my posts where I said " there is no one size fits all" "there is no best wheel size"; "All 3 wheel sizes have strong and weak points depending on rider skill and size, terrain and intended use of the bike"; "there will always be room for 3 mtb wheel sizes."

    I am indeed hostile to those I perceive as being know it alls or having a superiority complex; 29'er cool aid drinkers; and people who come into a forum trolling and calling people "dweebs" , then accusing others of being hostile.

    Dude, you need to take a good long look in the mirror.
    dwt - you're an angry man. Why I don't know. Your comments are hostile and typify the worst of judgementalism. I hope your day improves!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    good callout daniel- you're absolutely correct. I fished and it worked vvvvv
    Yup, you are officially successful in your trolling efforts. Well done!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    good callout daniel- you're absolutely correct. I fished and it worked vvvvv
    I was refering to the quote i posted, you know, the one from AxelH ....? I think that was pretty obvious ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsilva View Post
    I was refering to the quote i posted, you know, the one from AxelH ....? I think that was pretty obvious ....
    Axel's quote was provocative & trite & to be expected. The reactions were knee jerk and disappointingly also trite. I look forward to trying 650b bikes with an open mind.
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    - you're an angry man. Why I don't know. Your comments are hostile and typify the worst of judgementalism. I hope your day improves!
    Because I post on MTBR to give and receive information then have to deal with trolls like you who call people I respect dweebs and who falsely accuse me of being a cool aid drinking 650b fan boi. Live by hostility, Lee, die by hostility.


    Why don't you get back on topic or go away?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    I thought Specialized had their own lines of forks, wheels and tires..what else do they need?
    Yeah, that was my first thought as well.

    I think what they really mean is "We are going to wait for true innovators to get it off the ground, then we'll jump and board and figure out who to sue when they use the letter "S" in their name"
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Yeah, that was my first thought as well.

    I think what they really mean is "We are going to wait for true innovators to get it off the ground, then we'll jump and board and figure out who to sue when they use the letter "S" in their name"
    I don't think that is it at all. They will release a 650b when they are ready and in typical Specialized fashion it will be dialed. It's early early days folks, do you think bike companies as big as the big S, Trek, Giant need to panic getting a 650b to market? You are sadly mistaken if you think the 650b buzz that is on the interweb on enthusiast sites such as MTBR is carring over to bike shops right now, it's not. Crowds of people are not walking in to most LBS and asking about 650b.

    Specialized has been selling bikes for longer than a lot of people on this board have been alive, they are the second biggest bike company in the world, I think they have 650b under control. If 650b indeed has legs, then companies like Specialized view it from a different perspective than the guy on the street who wants a new bike, they are looking long term, big picture. Being late to the 29er party did not negatively effect their business. The bigger the ship the harder it is to steer.

    News Flash: There are pockets of mountain bikers all over the world have haven't even accepted 29ers yet!
    Last edited by Saddle Up; 07-19-2012 at 09:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    I don't think that is it at all. They will release a 650b when they are ready and in typical Specialized fashion it will be dialed. It's early early days folks, do you think bike companies as big as the big S, Trek, Giant need to panic getting a 650b to market? You are sadly mistaken if you think the 650b buzz that is on the interweb on enthusiast sites such as MTBR is carring over to bike shops right now, it's not. Crowds of people are not walking in to most LBS and asking about 650b.

    Specialized has been selling bikes for longer than a lot of people on this board have been alive, they are the second biggest bike company in the world, I think they have 650b under control. If 650b indeed has legs, then companies like Specialized view it from a different perspective than the guy on the street who wants a new bike, they are looking long term, big picture. Being late to the 29er party did not negatively effect their business. The bigger the ship the harder it is to steer.

    News Flash: There are pockets of mountain bikers all over the world have haven't even accepted 29ers yet!
    OK, the part about suing was off topic, but the part about them waiting for others to get it off the ground is not, and what you are saying does not contradict that, but rather explains it and supports it.

    My point was a jab at their claim to be innovators: they are not innovators, they are followers. This is 2012, not 1981.

    FWIW, the owner of my LBS is very exited about 650b.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    I don't think that is it at all. They will release a 650b when they are ready and in typical Specialized fashion it will be dialed. It's early early days folks, do you think bike companies as big as the big S, Trek, Giant need to panic getting a 650b to market? You are sadly mistaken if you think the 650b buzz that is on the interweb on enthusiast sites such as MTBR is carring over to bike shops right now, it's not. Crowds of people are not walking in to most LBS and asking about 650b.

    Specialized has been selling bikes for longer than a lot of people on this board have been alive, they are the second biggest bike company in the world, I think they have 650b under control. If 650b indeed has legs, then companies like Specialized view it from a different perspective than the guy on the street who wants a new bike, they are looking long term, big picture. Being late to the 29er party did not negatively effect their business. The bigger the ship the harder it is to steer.

    News Flash: There are pockets of mountain bikers all over the world have haven't even accepted 29ers yet!
    I think they call it Europe, which has a reputation of being home to weight weenies, thereby ruling out bikes with heavy wagon wheels.

    Maybe Europe will pick up the 650b ball and run with it, and then the combined demand in Europe and the States, will tweak the big companies into selling them. European sales of Scott Genius 700's and scale 27.5's in 2013 will be key


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    Okay, just so we are clear here, 650b is nothing new. How much innovation do we need to make a 650b bicycle? Average consumers are converting 26" bikes successfully. We are not reinventing anything here.

    People are making it sound like companies that are on board with 650b early are pioneering something. I've had 650b wheels on my Surly Troll for nearly a year. Am I an innovator? The reason companies are putting so much effort into 650b early is because it's an easy transition from their 26" product, they can make it happen quickly.

  60. #60
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    How much innovation do we need to make a 29er ? a 26er ? Any bike for that matter ? It's two wheels on a frame. Innovation is not just comming up with something new and/trivial it's also adapting/introducing something that isn't known/widely used in a new environment.

    Hell this is just how Apple operates and yet eveone calls them "innovators".

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    I think some people in this thread are right on.

    Specialized contrary to thier name wants to make and sell bikes to the masses, not specialiized markets. When was the last time you saw a specialized hand driven trike? They are going to follow trends in sales. Specialized has not been the innovator in the market when it comes to wheel size and will probably follow the same strategy with 27.5 as it did with 29. Wait, and then introduce a model or a couple models and see how they sell. S is just reacting to the market. They have basically stopped making 26 inch xc bikes. Not because there are inherenet problems with 26 inch wheels, but because 29 was outselling it. They are fine losing a few sales of people who want a 26 inch xc race bike to smaller companies and focusing on what is selling in mass quanities.
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    650b Stumpy Evo, you heard it here first!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    I'll be riding and testing two 650b bikes. I'm interested in the wheelsize. I think it has potential

    All I see is the defensiveness of you dwt and you StiHacka and you reformed roadie. ESPECIALLY you dwt. You're hostile to any discussion negative of 650b. Such small mindedness is bewildering. What made you so petty?

    EDIT: or maybe I'm identifying random knee-jerk responses to some perceived slight of something in which all of you are emotionally invested. In which case, I apologize and will resume passive reading and leave everyone to not-so-friendly debates.
    LeeL, I sort of see where you are coming from. I enjoy the articles you post here,

    I generally try to save the venom for the people who clearly have no reason to be posting other than to tweak the people who are invested and try to actual share useful info, and most of all, have actually ridden a 650b bike.

    Recently, someone who a while back actually STARTED A THREAD to say 650B was "an ill conceived idea" was posting a new thread to get some info on a 650b conversion. I called him on it. I don't go on 29er, single speed, or any other forum which I have no interest in to criticize and demean people for the hell of it. It is the definition of troll.

    From my experience, the mountain bikers who have drank the 29er Kool Aid are WAY more sensitive about all things wheel-size related.

    And for the record, I don't really consider a wheel size an innovation. The new rear derailleurs with a clutch mechanism is an innovation...

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    650b Stumpy Evo, you heard it here first!
    That would be bad @ss, only in a HT though
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    LeeL, I sort of see where you are coming from. I enjoy the articles you post here,

    I generally try to save the venom for the people who clearly have no reason to be posting other than to tweak the people who are invested and try to actual share useful info, and most of all, have actually ridden a 650b bike.

    Recently, someone who a while back actually STARTED A THREAD to say 650B was "an ill conceived idea" was posting a new thread to get some info on a 650b conversion. I called him on it. I don't go on 29er, single speed, or any other forum which I have no interest in to criticize and demean people for the hell of it. It is the definition of troll.
    Per the suggestions of some on this forum I'd like to get a 26, 650b and 29er version of the same bike and try them out back to back on the same trail. If I can't get that bike with all versions then at least I'd like to source the 26 and 650b versions and try them out. Again - with an open mind but with the caveat that of course my experience will inherently be subjective. Ideally I'd like to try a pedally up and down trail.
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    The vast majority of consumers don't give a rip if someones an innovator, they typically buy on price and/or cool factor. I don't personally like the bikes they make, but if they don't want to make a 650b bike it's there choice. That's the great thing about a free market.
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    Talk about lack of vision! (Specialized)

    I owned about 75 motorcycles and several MTBs. It's interesting to compare the evolution of wheel sizes between the two. In the late 70s the standard (Japanese) motorcycle front wheel was 19", the rare (European) exception being 18" (this discussion excludes the so-called "cruiser" and "chopper" genres).

    In '82 (IIRC) Honda was first with 16" front wheels on their VF750F "race replica." By the next year all four Japanese race replicas had 16" front wheels.

    But 16" was slightly on the small side, with less than ideal stability and tendency to turn-in too quickly in transition modes (felt like the bike was "falling" into turns). For a short time at least one race only GP bike ran 16.5".

    Within a few years virtually all race replicas and race only bikes had transitioned to 17" wheels. 17" is still the universal street bike standard where performance is the primary goal. For stylistic purposes and/or ultra heavy load capacities, front hoops still range from 16" up to 21".

    So in the motorcycle world, they started large (18"-19"), undershot to 16", then settled on 17". Conversely, MTB started with smaller 26", then overshot to 29", and now seems solidly gaining traction (no pun intended) with 27.5 hoops.
    Last edited by ro7939; 05-18-2013 at 12:33 PM.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    "Innovate or die"

    Pretty hard to innovate when you are waiting for everyone else to make stuff for you to use.

    Does that mean they only have one option left?
    well, 2 options at 26" & 29"... but I agree wholeheartedly! a cryin' shame really, I like their stuff and it fits me well.

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    Looks suspiciously like a 27.5 wheel on the front[ where it counts most] of Michal Prokop's Specialized Enduro?
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Looks suspiciously like a 27.5 wheel on the front[ where it counts most] of Michal Prokop's Specialized Enduro?
    24 Bikes of the Enduro World Series - Pinkbike
    You might be right...trying to figure out what that tire is...Honey Badger maybe. Fairly light tread for endure front.

    I know I have posted awhile back in this forum, but now when I read the title, all I can thing is "who the hell cares".

  71. #71
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    Re: Specialized's statement/stance on 650b 2013

    I wonder what kind of fights roadie forums have since they're all on 29ers?

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    there's no fight over there because only very short roadies need and get 650b, and they just get the sympathetic pat on the back. Rude gestures are saved for the disk brake fights. we could try and start one for the Cx riders though.

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    Campy vs. Shimano, 23c vs. 25c tires...

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    I wonder what kind of fights roadie forums have since they're all on 29ers?
    Most road wheels are ~26.5"
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    Merida bikes owns 49 percent of speci and they sell 27.5 in Europe. Doesn't mean anything but giant which is the largest bike company in the world,merida the 3 rd largest in the world make them and about a million other smaller company's make them now they will have to join or be left behind.

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    Re: Specialized's statement/stance on 650b 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Wizard View Post
    Most road wheels are ~26.5"
    Hmm good to know.

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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_rex View Post
    there's no fight over there because only very short roadies need and get 650c, and they just get the sympathetic pat on the back. Rude gestures are saved for the disk brake fights. we could try and start one for the Cx riders though.
    Fixed it for ya.

  78. #78
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    Like others have said, I'll wager Spec will wait to see if 275 will remain strong (which it will), then they will generate a solid bike and release it (like they did with their 29er line).

    Sign me up for a 275 Enduro.

    (Specialized... Please keep the retarded Brain off the bike and go with bar mounted compression lever for the rear shock.)

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    "Innovate or die"

    Pretty hard to innovate when you are waiting for everyone else to make stuff for you to use.

    Does that mean they only have one option left?
    They should change their name to Die Fledermaus because they are taking a "Wait and see" approach to innovation.....
    (yes that is a "the Tick" joke...)
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Like others have said, I'll wager Spec will wait to see if 275 will remain strong (which it will), then they will generate a solid bike and release it (like they did with their 29er line).

    Sign me up for a 275 Enduro.

    (Specialized... Please keep the retarded Brain off the bike and go with bar mounted compression lever for the rear shock.)
    Yup...keep it simple!
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjm_2000 View Post
    Campy vs. Shimano, 23c vs. 25c tires...
    It's been scientifically proven that a 25c tire at 100psi is faster than a 23c tire at 110.

    Blows the mind. More comfort and more speed.
    The arsonist has oddly shaped feet!

  82. #82
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    Like others have said, Spesh will watch and see what happens. While they might not currently see 650B as the logical step now, I'd imagine as sales pick up and the aftermarket for 650B grows (hint wheels/tires/suspension) they'll decide to do something. While yes, they did enter the 29 game later than others you have to admit that their 29er bikes do ride quite well. I would even make the bold claim that they're among the best around. And with the Enduro 29 and whatever they're coming out with next year you can be sure that they're going to keep improving. So let them sit on their laurels a bit and watch the cards get dealt. At the end of the day, they still make a great bike, and I think that if they went 650B they'd want to make sure they invested the time and effort to make it great. Sadly, it does seem like the 26 inch wheel is slowly dying. So it would be wise of any bike company to offer wheelsize alternatives rather than forcing riders onto a 29 bike because they don't offer anything else. I would imagine that if a dude that posts on MTBR knows this, then the folks over at Spesh know it too. And if they don't, well they're going to lose a lot of sales over the next couple years.

    I did just sell my Stumpy evo to buy a new Bronson. After riding both back to back on the same trails the Bronson was far superior in every way. If anything, Specialized needs to move away from the FSR design... There are others out there that do a better job without the need of an annoyance like a brain. While there isn't a perfect suspension design out there, fully active almost always doesn't translate into fully efficient.
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  83. #83
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    650b is sticking. Market research is showing that most potential buyers aren't considering a 29er, are considering a 650b. Just a matter of time!

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    Thinking of wdier bars for my SOLO- Enve or Easton Haven?

    I am thinking of getting some wider bars for my SOLO.
    I have narrowed my choices down to the Enve Riser or the Easton Haven carbon.
    What bar is better? And why?

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    I am thinking of getting some wider bars for my SOLO.
    I have narrowed my choices down to the Enve Riser or the Easton Haven carbon.
    What bar is better? And why?
    I too have a Solo and I run Easton Haven's on them. Very light, stiff and wide enough for trail/AM settings. I like them a lot.

  86. #86
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    I think Giant nailed it, marketing BS or not...

    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    650b is sticking. Market research is showing that most potential buyers aren't considering a 29er, are considering a 650b. Just a matter of time!
    This is absolutely the case. I've got multiple, well established dealer friends who ALL say the same thing, two of which are Specialized dealers. People coming in are NOT asking for 29'ers anymore, just like for the last two years, they weren't asking for 26".

    27.5 is here and it ain't going away.

    IMO, Giant made the killing blow with their moves and marketing, and the hurt is on. Spesh has their work cut out for them.

    I don't care much for their bikes, but I would sure like it if they got their head out of their azz and put out some 27.5 rubber as I love some of their tires...
    Last edited by benja55; 11-07-2013 at 04:12 PM. Reason: mad errors!
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    I am thinking of getting some wider bars for my SOLO.
    I have narrowed my choices down to the Enve Riser or the Easton Haven carbon.
    What bar is better? And why?
    I am thinking of adding a completely off topic post to a six month old thread. Which font should I use? And why?
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    This is absolutely the case. I've got multiple, well established dealer friends who ALL say the same thing, two of which are Specialized dealers. People coming in are NOT asking for 29'ers anymore, just like for the last two years, they weren't asking for 26".

    27.5 is here and it ain't going away.

    IMO, Giant made the killing blow with their moves and marketing, and the hurt is on. Spesh has their work cut out for them.

    I don't care much for their bikes, but I would sure like it if they got their head out of their azz and put out some 27.5 rubber as I love some of their tires...
    Yeah I bet you all money Specialized already has a few 650b's being developed in their secret laboratories. I think most companies will carry 650b and 29ers. 29ers for XC/trail primarily, and 650b for AM and gravity-geared bikes. Of course some overlap too.
    I was surprised to hear Giant say they would phase out their 29ers, I thought having both 29ers and 650b's would be a good thing for them because I don't see 29ers going away ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy f View Post
    I am thinking of adding a completely off topic post to a six month old thread. Which font should I use? And why?
    Comic Sans? It's just a little bigger than Kids font but not half way to full Gothic.

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    Spoke with a Specialized bike shop owner in Seattle, Wa area, and he said his Spec. rep said that 27.5" bikes were coming down the line soon. Look for 2015 to have Stumpjumper and Enduro's in 27.5........Would surprise me if they were not.

  91. #91
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    Specialized's statement/stance on 650b 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    Comic Sans? It's just a little bigger than Kids font but not half way to full Gothic.
    Go all in: Wingdings.
    - -benja- -

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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    This is absolutely the case. I've got multiple, well established dealer friends who ALL say the same thing, two of which are Specialized dealers. People coming in are NOT asking for 29'ers anymore, just like for the last two years, they weren't asking for 26".

    27.5 is here and it ain't going away.

    IMO, Giant made the killing blow with their moves and marketing, and the hurt is on. Spesh has their work cut out for them.

    I don't care much for their bikes, but I would sure like it if they got their head out of their azz and put out some 27.5 rubber as I love some of their tires...
    This. As much as I don't like the company, I tried a bunch of different tires and like theirs the best. So as much as I don't like giving them my money, I need to have confidence in my tires.
    If they had 650B tires out I wouldn't be so hesitant on trying a 650B bike out.
    OG Ripley v2
    Carver 420 TI

  93. #93
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    Specialized's statement/stance on 650b 2013

    This was posted up in a thread in the AM forum, and IMO nails it:

    http://youtu.be/P2zffEvAJEk
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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    Dude, that's effing funny!

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    Frickin' AWESOME!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    I am thinking of getting some wider bars for my SOLO.
    I have narrowed my choices down to the Enve Riser or the Easton Haven carbon.
    What bar is better? And why?
    Specialized's statement/stance on 650b 2013-ralph_wiggum___im_special_by_eduardorivera-d4nmrel.jpg

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