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  1. #1
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    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?

    I've been focused on skiing (season started in October) so haven't been spending time on the forums. I'm potentially in the market for a non-faux-bar, light & stiff frame with 150-160 mm travel approx on both ends

    Not interested in modifying a 26er frame, since I'll be running large volume 650b tires.

    Not interested in low-end bikes. Not interested in a reduced travel Mojo HD or converting a 26er w/ skinny tires and/or shock to lower the BB.

    I'm a Turner owner and fan, will demo a Burner when I can & see if 140 could be enough for what I'm after.

    I've owned Intense bikes, not thrilled with the company (and both my local Intense dealers stopped carrying the brand since dealing w/ Intense sucked so much) but I'll keep an open mind about the Carbine.

    For a budget alu bike, my Norco Truax is fine but I'm not feeling the urge to get a 650 Norco frame although I guess that's a backup option.

    I think I heard that Pivot is coming out w/ a 650b Mach 5.7 carbon, correct? That would be a strong candidate.

    I don't recall anything rumored from Santa Cruz.

    What brands am I missing?
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  2. #2
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    found a spec table on mtbr comparing 5 'AM' bikes. nothing new there.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  3. #3
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    need 160mm...

    coil el Guapo or Chilcotin, still waiting. Want to build up some DL31 rims... maybe brant has warmed up to the idea now?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    found a spec table on mtbr comparing 5 'AM' bikes. nothing new there.
    no need here.. 36mm vengeance or fox sounds good to me ~ 66º

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    Rocky Altitude carbon?

  6. #6
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    Ventana Zeus

  7. #7
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    Banshee Spitfire V2 140mm
    Banshee Rune V2 160mm
    Norco Range 160mm
    Norco Sight 140mm
    Scott Genius 150mm
    Rocky Altitude 150mm
    Ventana Zeus is a faux bar but 140/160 convertible
    Lenz Lunchbox 160mm
    Waltworks ???
    Nicolai AM?
    KHS 6600? 140mm

    Others are avaialbe in Europe we don't get here.

    There is NO mention form Pivot regarding a Mach 5.7 with 650B (I wish) Current model (5.7C at least) can fit a smaller 650B tire and the shock has to be shimmed.

    I believe SC will be jumping in soon and I'm hoping for some sweet 650 announcements from Pivot and Ibis perhaps at the Sea Otter classic near the end of April. Would love to also see a 650 Giant Reign. 2014 will be 650B gone wild is my prediction.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    [QUOTE=skidad; 2014 will be 650B gone wild is my prediction.[/QUOTE]

    You are exactly right, I don't think people realize just how big the 650b steamroller is going to be in 2014-15. The floodgates are opening. What we are seeing now is barely a trickle. I predict the death of 26" in anything other than DJ style bikes within those 2 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    You are exactly right, I don't think people realize just how big the 650b steamroller is going to be in 2014-15. The floodgates are opening. What we are seeing now is barely a trickle. I predict the death of 26" in anything other than DJ style bikes within those 2 years.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    need 160mm coil el Guapo or Chilcotin, still waiting. Want to build up some DL31 rims... maybe brant has warmed up to the idea now?
    Add to this 2.4 DHF, BB, MM, Butcher etc. Maybe carbon main frame after seeing the santa cruz carbon nomad vid....maybe.. But no carbon rear tri for me. ~And absolutely NO NEED for 150mm or less travel~

  11. #11
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    "Ventana Zeus"

    Isnt that a feux/four bar? I thought he said no thanks to that.

  12. #12
    dwt
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    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    Subscribed for future pointing and laughing.
    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1361591575.681263.jpg


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    Thanks. OK, confirmed what I thought...very few good options currently. I'd forgotten about the rocky mtn. The Rune is a cool frame--I followed those threads last year--but is too heavy for this application ie overlaps with my truax.

    Guess I have to wait until sea otter.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  14. #14
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    I only do single pivots (aka faux bar), sorry.

    It will be interesting to see what happens this year. There are a lot of bikes being built but many people have no idea that 650b even exists. I don't know of a single shop here in SLC that carries even one 650b bike (to be fair I only regularly visit a couple of them). Either we'll see a lot more offerings next year or it'll be the end. IMO it would have made more sense to appeal to/build for the XC market first (that's where the most people/$ are) but 150+mm travel seems to be what everyone decided the 650b world needed.

    -Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I only do single pivots (aka faux bar), sorry.

    It will be interesting to see what happens this year. There are a lot of bikes being built but many people have no idea that 650b even exists. I don't know of a single shop here in SLC that carries even one 650b bike (to be fair I only regularly visit a couple of them). Either we'll see a lot more offerings next year or it'll be the end. IMO it would have made more sense to appeal to/build for the XC market first (that's where the most people/$ are) but 150+mm travel seems to be what everyone decided the 650b world needed.

    -Walt
    Not to veer off topic, and I'm certainly no expert, but isn't the XC market already pretty thick with 29ers?

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    Sure, but they (29ers, that is) are over-represented on MTBR and among the die-hards. You make most of your money selling bikes to MUCH less hardcore riders who are doing plain-jane XC riding. Those folks are looking to move up/on from an older 26" hardtail or short-travel FS bike. Plenty of opportunity to sell them on a 650b wheel in an XC travel range.

    Selling bikes to "quiver" riders seems like a great idea if you spend all day on MTBR where we're all obsessed, but in the real world most people just have one mountain bike and it's for riding XC.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaspir View Post
    Not to veer off topic, and I'm certainly no expert, but isn't the XC market already pretty thick with 29ers?
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  17. #17
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    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    It will be interesting to see what happens this year. There are a lot of bikes being built but many people have no idea that 650b even exists. I don't know of a single shop here in SLC that carries even one 650b bike (to be fair I only regularly visit a couple of them). Either we'll see a lot more offerings next year or it'll be the end. IMO it would have made more sense to appeal to/build for the XC market first (that's where the most people/$ are) but 150+mm travel seems to be what everyone decided the 650b world needed.
    Interesting indeed. Predictions that 26" will become obsolete and at the same time predictions that 27.5" could be doomed in a year.

    As far as 27.5" for XC market, it seems that the thinking was 29" owns that already, while 27.5" works well in the 5-6" travel area, so build the best bikes for the platform. Scott is the perfect example: did not at all milk Nino Schurter's success on the 27.5" HT and are selling only 29" Scales but no 27.5". No 27.5" Spark planned AFAIK. Meanwhile 26" eliminated from Genius line while the 29" and the 27.5" compete with each other.

    Definitely agree more 27.5" product necessary: Spesh, Trek, Giant and SC bikes needed in XC, trail, AM and even DH models this year or next. That would do the trick in itself to make the wheel size credible and viable. That or continued success in XC racing, and new success in Enduro and DH and the resulting publicity.

    Notwithstanding all the *****ing that the industry is hyping the tweener wheel size and forcing it down the public's throat, the truth is that it is still exotic and cult, popular on MTBR and some of the bike mags. But low supply in the retail shops, not too common on the trails. Yet.


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  18. #18
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    We are selling out of Altitudes before they even hit our showroom floor. If you live in Canada and want a carbon Altitude especially size L you need to go to a dealer now, Rocky is sold out. I've never seen anything like it, never before have we sold bikes before they even went in to production. I live 40kms away from the Rockies, geographical area obviously plays a roll.

    A lot of shops bought one or two bikes just to dip their toes in the water, now they are kicking themselves in the ass. We bought as many as we could. Folks I'm telling you, it's a freight train coming full speed ahead. At the doubter above that subscribed just for laughs, dude you won't even be around in two years, I'll be the one standing here saying "I told you so".

    Major bike companies have seen the future, they have cancelled 26" production runs for 2014 and beyond. The future is 650b and 29er. I'm looking forward to the Rocky Mountain Element 650b.
    Last edited by Saddle Up; 02-23-2013 at 08:10 AM.

  19. #19
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    I'm confused - they are sold out, but you should hurry to your dealer? For what?

    I wonder how many they made, that is quite impressive even for a small company. I guess they're kicking themselves for not making more!

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    We are selling out of Altitudes before they even hit our showroom floor. If you live in Canada and want a carbon Altitude especially size L you need to go to a dealer now, Rocky is sold out. I've never seen anything like it, never before have we sold bikes before they even went in to production. I live 40kms away from the Rockies, geographical area obviously plays a roll.

    A lot of shops bought one or two bikes just to dip their toes in the water, now they are kicking themselves in the ass. We bought as many as we could. Folks I'm telling you, it's a freight train coming full speed ahead. At the doubter above that subscribed just for laughs, dude you won't even be around in two years, I'll be the one standing here saying "I told you so".

    Major bike companies have seen the future, they have cancelled 26" production runs for 2014 and beyond. The future is 650b and 29er. I'm looking forward to the Rocky Mountain Element 650b.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm confused - they are sold out, but you should hurry to your dealer? For what?

    I wonder how many they made, that is quite impressive even for a small company. I guess they're kicking themselves for not making more!

    -Walt
    I get what he is saying, Walt. Shops (and customers) can't order more, but shops that did order haven't gotten them yet, so there is a chance a customer could reserve one of those.

    I ordered mine a month ago, won't see it until April...
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm confused - they are sold out, but you should hurry to your dealer? For what?

    I wonder how many they made, that is quite impressive even for a small company. I guess they're kicking themselves for not making more!

    -Walt
    Dealers buy most of their bikes without pre-orders from riders, otherwise you'd see empty dealer showrooms. Manufacturers require minimum order numbers to qualify as a dealer for a brand.

    For the OP, IMO, the Banshee Rune having optional 26"/27.5" setup looks well designed for covering XC to DH park days. 160mm travel this year and a major upgrade in pivots from traction killing bushings to roller bearings for the 2013 models. And the Norco Range 27.5 (650b) has a very aggressive horst link design which should well balance pedaling and climbing squat with 160mm travel having a high anti-squat rate, and very active rear braking design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    For the OP, IMO, the Banshee Rune having optional 26"/27.5" setup looks well designed for covering XC to DH park days. 160mm travel this year and a major upgrade in pivots from traction killing bushings to roller bearings for the 2013 models. And the Norco Range 27.5 (650b) has a very aggressive horst link design which should well balance pedaling and climbing squat with 160mm travel having a high anti-squat rate, and very active rear braking design.
    Banshee has done a terrific job on the re-design of the new Rune, Spitfire, and Prime. The KS Link suspension is excellent and efficient with performance figures shockingly similar to the DW Link Mojo HD and Giant Reign Maestro. They classify it as VPP but it's action is very different from Intense or SC. A Rune can be built in the 31-32lb range and a Spitfire 27-28lbs. Personally I will most likely be getting the 140mm Spitfire as my next bike. I test rode the Prime 29'er for a day to experience the KS Link and it was awesome IMO.

    Honestly I really thought the new Altitude was gonna be the one for me but I have now ridden 3 Rockies with the horizontal shock setup including the new 29'er Instinct and they have done nothing for me. I also didn't like at all what I saw about the new Altitude on Antonio Osuna's suspension blog. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...tude-2013.html

    Here is the Banshee Rune...much better http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...e-v2-2013.html

    Here is the Norco Range which is also excellent http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...-275-2013.html
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  23. #23
    dwt
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    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post



    I wonder how many they made, that is quite impressive even for a small company. I guess they're kicking themselves for not making more!
    Good news/bad news/ good news.

    Good, that there is hot demand for these bikes. Maybe that will spur the big boys into action.

    Bad, that some of these early adopters sold out so soon. They lost out on sales; unhappy consumers didn't get they wanted and expected 2013. The shops will have no inventory on hand to demo to the curious and expand the demand base.

    Good, the demand might suffer a hit, but it won't go away. More bikes by the current and other bike companies could/should be produced 2014, and the sales should be solid.

    We shall see.



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  24. #24
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    Oh, ok, I get it now. Duh.

    Shops are in my experience pretty conservative about ordering new high end bikes without preorders so if they've really reserved the entire production run already that is *awesome*. I need some true 650b DH tires for my 160mm bike so if lots of them sell that will be a good thing.

    -Walt


    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I get what he is saying, Walt. Shops (and customers) can't order more, but shops that did order haven't gotten them yet, so there is a chance a customer could reserve one of those.

    I ordered mine a month ago, won't see it until April...
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    I think my 150 mm Scott Genius is a great XC as well as Trail machine. I'm not hitting any drops bigger than 3' and the lock out makes for a great climbing rig. I'm sure that any of the FS rigs with lock out (CTD, etc...) will climb well. The bikes are kind of hard to find though, probably because so many savvy Early Adopters are jumping on what is available.. I may still have a line on other Scotts. It will be sweet in a year or two when most or all companies are putting out 650 rigs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    The Rune is a cool frame--I followed those threads last year--but is too heavy for this application ie overlaps with my truax.
    I would thought the Rune would be your first option...

    Perhaps this Cube will fit better.

  27. #27
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    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPhatrick View Post
    I think my 150 mm Scott Genius is a great XC as well as Trail machine. I'm not hitting any drops bigger than 3' and the lock out makes for a great climbing rig. I'm sure that any of the FS rigs with lock out (CTD, etc...) will climb well. The bikes are kind of hard to find though, probably because so many savvy Early Adopters are jumping on what is available.. I may still have a line on other Scotts. It will be sweet in a year or two when most or all companies are putting out 650 rigs.
    I decided not to pull the trigger on a new bike this year; will stand pat with 3 yr old Jamis 650b2 for 2013. Too much effort to find one; prices too high.

    I'm thinking/betting that a year from now there will be more variety to choose from, including Spesh, Trek, Giant, and Santa Cruz. I'm hoping but not holding my breath that the prices will come down.

    I'm dreaming of a sub 25 lbs 140mm or 150mm carbon trailbike @ no more than $4k USD. Dreaming or smoking too much?



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  28. #28
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    Personally, I've never been more happy with any bike that I've had than I am with my Carbine. I rode it as a 26er for about three weeks before I built my main 650b wheel set and it was a great bike, but as a 27.5" bike this thing is exceptional IMO. I run somewhat light components,a Fox 36, a dropper and as big of tires as I can find; My large comes in at 29lbs and that could easily be dropped to sub 28 for races. I do a lot of climbing and descending here in AZ and keep saying there is just nothing more I could want out of a 6" all around bike.
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    Re: Carbine--what big rear tires are you running? How much clearance?

    Re: Rune--as I've said, I'm not interested in a bike that ends up only 1 lb lighter than my nearly new Truax/Totem. My 650b frame purchase would be intended to replace my sub-30 lb Alu nomad. That's why I specifically referenced 150-160 mm rear, and I'm open to 140 if necessary and the geo is low and slack.

    The new Rune is a great frame, just not what I'm looking for
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

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    Whats really cool about converting my Carbine is that I can use my 2012 Fox Float 36 and works mint! sure had to invest in another wheel set and dropouts but all is good,because really still appreciate 26 under certain conditions and can still have that option without having to invest in another complete bike!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    Subscribed for future pointing and laughing.
    Yeah, there's a bet I will gladly take.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Santa Cruz and Kona both have 650b models coming. Kona supposedly has a few models of 650b coming

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    If you want really light, try this version of the Cube

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    So you want a carbon 160mm 27.5?
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    Quote Originally Posted by eranshap View Post
    If you want really light, try this version of the Cube
    Well, we can't get the Cube in the US so the logistics getting one here are most likely not worth it.

    The original poster wants low and slack and would consider 140mm. Turner Burner (and he likes Turner) sure hits the mark there. Banshee Spitfire does also if you want to set it up like that (can also be set up high and steep and also use 26" wheels if so desired). Norco Sight 140 also is pretty low with a 13.3" BB and the head tube can easily handle an angle set. Good thing about the Turner (perhaps the new Banshee also) is if he didn't like it the frame would sell in a heartbeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I only do single pivots (aka faux bar), sorry.

    It will be interesting to see what happens this year. There are a lot of bikes being built but many people have no idea that 650b even exists. I don't know of a single shop here in SLC that carries even one 650b bike (to be fair I only regularly visit a couple of them). Either we'll see a lot more offerings next year or it'll be the end. IMO it would have made more sense to appeal to/build for the XC market first (that's where the most people/$ are) but 150+mm travel seems to be what everyone decided the 650b world needed.

    -Walt
    I was in Jans in PC the other day and they had a few Scott Genius 650b's fyi, very impressive in person.. The 700 sl weighed 25 lbs?!

  37. #37
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    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Well, we can't get the Cube in the US so the logistics getting one here are most likely not worth it..
    One size only left. This is the "low end" model

    http://www.amazon.com/Cube-Stereo-Su...33&sr=1-41


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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I only do single pivots (aka faux bar), sorry.

    It will be interesting to see what happens this year. There are a lot of bikes being built but many people have no idea that 650b even exists. I don't know of a single shop here in SLC that carries even one 650b bike (to be fair I only regularly visit a couple of them). Either we'll see a lot more offerings next year or it'll be the end. IMO it would have made more sense to appeal to/build for the XC market first (that's where the most people/$ are) but 150+mm travel seems to be what everyone decided the 650b world needed.

    -Walt
    Well sort of, it's actually too late now for it to be the end. When manufacturers decided to jump on to 650b it was much more than a 1 year plan. Bikes are planned and designed at least a year ahead of release. Even if 650b just does okay in 2013 it's already too late to put a halt to what is coming in 2014. Get ready for hardtails, and dual suspension XC bikes, etc etc. I know the 2013 riding season has barely even begun but the reality is it's already too late to stop what is being produced for 2014, there simply is not enough time to go back to the drawing board.

  39. #39
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    Turner is also pricey and not nearly as light as some other options.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Turner is also pricey and not nearly as light as some other options.
    Yeah, I guess if he's talking Turner money he just might want to have a look at the Carbon Altitude frame only option. With the Ride 9 adjustable geometry that thing can get low and slack (66.62) for sure + it's 150mm travel....and light.

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    That is a good point, and it's also worth noting that some of the crop of 2010-2011 or so bikes went over poorly (ie showed up for dirt cheap at various internet liquidation sites) without killing the wheel size. It would be interesting to know how many 650b mountain bikes are out there and how many have been selling. Going by MTBR, there must be tons, but I've yet to see one on the trail *ever*.

    Of course, SLC is like 10 years behind everyone. People still stop me on the trail to ask me about my 29er here, as if they're some kind of new and exciting thing.

    -Walt
    Last edited by Walt; 02-24-2013 at 02:08 PM.
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  42. #42
    74 & 29 pilot
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Re: Carbine--what big rear tires are you running? How much clearance?
    Currently the Maxxis Ardent EXO 27.5x2.25. It's the tallest 650b tire I've seen yet and there is 4-6mm to top of new tread by eye balling it with a 12mm spoke nipple, maybe more. The Neo-Moto 2.3 had a little more clearance, but it doesn't hold up well in the rocky SW terrain.
    Last edited by MTB Pilot; 02-24-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I only do single pivots (aka faux bar), sorry.

    It will be interesting to see what happens this year. There are a lot of bikes being built but many people have no idea that 650b even exists. I don't know of a single shop here in SLC that carries even one 650b bike (to be fair I only regularly visit a couple of them). Either we'll see a lot more offerings next year or it'll be the end. IMO it would have made more sense to appeal to/build for the XC market first (that's where the most people/$ are) but 150+mm travel seems to be what everyone decided the 650b world needed.

    -Walt
    Hey Walt,

    You need to come by GO-RIDE.com some time. We have a number of 27.5 bikes in stock and on the way, including demos. Bikes we already have or will be stocking:

    Intense Carbine 275 - already built 4 for customers, 1 demo available more on the way, bike for sale on the floor.

    Ventana Zeus - demo on the floor

    Norco Range - 2 versions for sale on the floor

    Norco Sight - 1 version for sale on the floor, more coming

    Turner Burner - built one for customer, demos as soon as they are available.

    We have also built a number of wheelsets for customers for both custom builds and conversions.
    Giant Reign Adv
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott@GO-RIDE.com View Post
    Hey Walt,

    You need to come by GO-RIDE.com some time. We have a number of 27.5 bikes in stock and on the way, including demos. Bikes we already have or will be stocking:

    Intense Carbine 275 - already built 4 for customers, 1 demo available more on the way, bike for sale on the floor.

    Ventana Zeus - demo on the floor

    Norco Range - 2 versions for sale on the floor

    Norco Sight - 1 version for sale on the floor, more coming

    Turner Burner - built one for customer, demos as soon as they are available.

    We have also built a number of wheelsets for customers for both custom builds and conversions.
    Wait a minute! I thought you were ten years behind?

  45. #45
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    Where are you guys located?
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
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  46. #46
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    It's hilarious.

    -When we moved here people told us about this "crazy" new sandwich shop where people deliver subs on bikes (yeah, heard of Jimmy John's, actually...) and a place where you can get a "big as your head" burrito (Chipotle/Qdoba haven't made it here, I kid you not).
    -People literally (I have had a polite conversation with a fellow about this when he was parking his car) think the bike lanes are where you park.
    -Microbrews (especially crazy stuff like IPAs) are a new beer sensation sweeping the city.
    -I bought some tofu at the grocery store and the checkout girl asked me what it was/what it tasted like/why I was buying it.
    -You can go to a physical store to buy/sell/trade in your CD's! I am not joking!

    And best of all, I can be cool again here because I have a 29er! People literally stop me on the trail and ask about it, which hasn't happened to me in CO for at least 5 or 6 years. If I get around to building myself a 36er I'll cause people to drop dead in shock, I think. My cargo bike has almost caused traffic accidents numerous times due to rubbernecking.

    It's a blast from the past, I tell ya!

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by joetmtb View Post
    Wait a minute! I thought you were ten years behind?
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
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  47. #47
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    That is funny stuff Walt!
    Trust me I do feel your pain. When I went to Moab years ago I was double fisting Budweiser and could never get a decent buzz. Than i was told the Abv was like 2.5%!
    I was shocked and more than a little pissed.

    My Burner frame should be delivered tomorrow. I am coming off several years on small 29ers and think 27.5 is the ticket for me. I will know soon enough!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So...you're grumpy and like to talk about penis's.

  49. #49
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    So how's the crop of 150-160 mm high end 650b FS bikes looking for 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    So...you're grumpy and like to talk about penis's.
    No, I just don't like a-holes


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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    No, I just don't like a-holes


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    More anger and name calling. Maybe it's time to step away and reset.

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