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  1. #1
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    Santa Cruz 5010 vs. Pivot Mach 4 vs?

    I currently have a Ghost Kato FS7, and I am looking at upgrading to a new bike. My priorities are:
    • Excellent climber with very reduced first gear (because I am _not_ an excellent climber! :-).
    • Light (see above).
    • Stable and nimble on downhills up to moderate speeds (I am not a very fast downhiller, nor will I be).

    I do mostly single track, no jumps, occasionally downhill over roots/rocks.

    I am looking at the Santa Cruz 5010, and at the Pivot Mach 4 Carbon.
    What's the advice about those two?
    How are the Sram shifters of the Santa Cruz? (I always had Shimano so far). Are there options for a drop post on the Pivot, or will I have to have it installed after market? Any general opinions?
    I will go for a demo ride of the 5010 next week. Any other bikes I should be looking at?

    Thanks for the advice...

  2. #2
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    Take a look at the intense Spider. Still some pretty good deals out there on them. I picked up one earlier this year and it is a solid ride. Very similar in spec to the last 5010 (I haven't really looked at the numbers on the new one). The Mach 4 is a fun bike, but probably a little racier than the 5010 or the Spider. Oh, and the Rocky Mountain offerings in this segment look really good as well (Thunderbolt and I think the Altitude). As for the SRAM question, I have ran both and there really isn't that big of a difference in feel to me. I'd run either happily. Upper end SRAM stuff is lighter though and you can go 12 speed for less as I don't think Shimano 12 speed is available in anything but XTR.

  3. #3
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    Any 1x12 will likely get you the low gearing you are looking for, especially if you go 32 tooth up front for a 27.5 or 30 tooth for a 29er. To compare relative gearing, you may find this useful.
    Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator

    The SRAM shifters for 1x12 work fine, in my limited experience. I use 1x11 on a Yeti SB5, which is similar to a last generation 5010, as that's fine for my needs.
    It is highly dependent on where and how you ride. A local bike shop can be helpful to that end.

    Your description of how and where you ride is too generic to be of much use, but maybe you should look at short travel 29ers as well. Also light often = $$$ and you don't mention your budget.

  4. #4
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    For more information, I generally ride fire roads and single tracks up and down the Santa Cruz mountains and around the SF Bay Area in general. I don't do jumps, I don't go fast on downhills, and the most technical things I do are irregular ground with some rocks and roots -- but when it gets hairy I generally step down. I am a bit over 50, and so I need a bit more help on the uphills than other mountain bikers may. For instance, I appreciate very much that the shortest ratio on my Kato FS7 is 26T front and 42T back.

    Indeed, the gear ratio is a problem. I love Giant bikes also, but a 32T in the front with a (say) 11-46 in the back is by far not reduced enough; I would need 30T with 50T in the back, or something like that. At the end of a long hot day, on a long uphill, I really need the ability to take it slower.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    maybe you should look at short travel 29ers as well.
    This looks like what you are looking for, as they are going to give you decent options for weight and efficiency climbing

    Blur, SB100, Sniper, Spark to name a few
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/1" Slicks and a Rack on the Back

  6. #6
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    I demoed a 5010 today and what fun it was! Incredible. Compared to the Ghost, which I always found twitchy, the 5010 was like having a brain connection to the bike, you think of a line, and the bike just follows it in the most natural way! I had a blast! Well, aside from the fact that I nearly died of heat, I had so much fun that I ended up doing a much longer ride than I had planned and I run low on water in a very hot day. But I am now veeery likely to go with the 5010. Many thanks for the comments!

  7. #7
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    Lucapcp

    I hear you man. I am mid 50s. I used to do shuttle rides in CA. I am now in NC and I have to pedal. What's up with that? And I took a 10 year break from my CA riding to my NC riding. So I am 10 years older, and I have to climb.

    So what did I do? I got a lighter CF bike for sure. Then I swapped out the 30T chainring on my XT 1 x 11 drivetrain with a 28T. That helped significantly.

    I did the ratio math, and it gives me better low gearing on my 27.5 bike than I had on my old 26" dinosaur with 3 x 9 gears.

    Oh, and vitamin B12 in my drink during the ride! ;-)

  8. #8
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    BTW - I'm on a Pivot Mach 5.5 and loving it.

    Yes you should definitely demo the Pivot Mach 4.

  9. #9
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    I liked so much my demoing of the Santa Cruz 5010 that I think I will go with it -- especially as the bike store told me I can swap the 32T crank with a 30T (matching or besting the ratio I have now, with the 10-50 in front). After the Ghost experience, a nice bike that really does not fit me well, I really want to demo what I buy. I was almost tempted to swap in a 28T but I decided to save that for a few years from now!

    On a related note, I note that this year the "fashion" was to have a fairly long first gear in bikes (look e.g. at Giant); for next year's models, I see Giant and others adopting shorter gears for their bikes (Giant is also going with 30T, 10-50).

  10. #10
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    If you're mind is made up, that's cool, but I will say that you won't find a better climbing full-suspension bike than the Mach 4. The pedaling efficiency is second to none.

  11. #11
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    But where can I demo Pivots in the Bay Area?

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  13. #13
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    fwiw, SunRace makes a 11-50 11 speed cassette

    https://factoryjackson.com/2017/04/1...peed-cassette/

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy View Post
    If you're mind is made up, that's cool, but I will say that you won't find a better climbing full-suspension bike than the Mach 4. The pedaling efficiency is second to none.
    I like that bold statement!

    Where would you place the pedaling efficiency of a Pivot Mach 5.5? Do you have any experience on the Mach 5.5?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockohaulic View Post
    I like that bold statement!

    Where would you place the pedaling efficiency of a Pivot Mach 5.5? Do you have any experience on the Mach 5.5?
    Sorry Rockohaulic, I haven't ridden a Mach 5.5, but Pivot's are known for their pedaling efficiency.

  16. #16
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    Was about to post a similar question but came across your thread, what did you go with in the end? Forgive me for hijacking your thread but figure this was a good place to ask!

    I'm looking to upgrade frame from a santacruz blur trc (rolling on 27.5) to a more modern 27.5 w 120 to 130. Needs to be future proof, fun, capable and to a lesser extent race able.

    My top 3 options are 1: Used 2018 5010 frame ($1800usd) / 2: New 2017 Intense spider frame ($1500usd) / 3: New 2018 Rockymountain thunderbolt complete build. (70c roughly 5.5kusd)

    Option 2 offers the best value with some great deals on spider 275c frame sets atm and i have a great selection of parts to throw on it.

    My concern is that as a 2017 model it might be a little outdated and less future proof then a new thunderbolt or 5010?

    Any thoughts on how future proof or relevant the spider is? Everything seems pretty modern on paper even though its a discontinued design. Ie. boost, long reach, slack, great suspension tune, internal routing, etc...

    Any thoughts on performance vs these options? Reviews of the spider are great, very comparable to the 5010 which seems to be comparable to the thunderbolt

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steineken View Post
    Was about to post a similar question but came across your thread, what did you go with in the end? Forgive me for hijacking your thread but figure this was a good place to ask!

    I'm looking to upgrade frame from a santacruz blur trc (rolling on 27.5) to a more modern 27.5 w 120 to 130. Needs to be future proof, fun, capable and to a lesser extent race able.

    My top 3 options are 1: Used 2018 5010 frame ($1800usd) / 2: New 2017 Intense spider frame ($1500usd) / 3: New 2018 Rockymountain thunderbolt complete build. (70c roughly 5.5kusd)

    Option 2 offers the best value with some great deals on spider 275c frame sets atm and i have a great selection of parts to throw on it.

    My concern is that as a 2017 model it might be a little outdated and less future proof then a new thunderbolt or 5010?

    Any thoughts on how future proof or relevant the spider is? Everything seems pretty modern on paper even though its a discontinued design. Ie. boost, long reach, slack, great suspension tune, internal routing, etc...

    Any thoughts on performance vs these options? Reviews of the spider are great, very comparable to the 5010 which seems to be comparable to the thunderbolt
    Brand new XL Carbon CC for 2000$ at CompetitiveCyclist. I love my 5010 V2.

    https://www.competitivecyclist.com/s...oxOjg6NTAxMA==

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockohaulic View Post
    I like that bold statement!

    Where would you place the pedaling efficiency of a Pivot Mach 5.5? Do you have any experience on the Mach 5.5?
    I demoed the 5.5 and prefer my V2 5010. Even in Utah chunk. To me, the 5010 is just more fun with the trail feedback and playfulness. The 5.5 soaked everything up too well. If I got a bigger travel bike like the 5.5 I would def tune the suspension to be more progressive.

  19. #19
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    As for myself, I have a Santa Cruz 5010 on order. I am sure the Ghost is a great bike; it probably just does not fit me well. And so even though there are other great bikes (Pivot, Giant, etc), I decided that it's much wiser for me to go with a bike that I loved after a serious demo (I rode 3 hours on it!). I live close to Santa Cruz the city, so it was simple to reserve a factory demo.

    One time I bought a pair of skis from advice by a person that supposedly was skiing similarly to me, and they were all wrong for me. The next pair I bought, I demoed for half a day first. From now on, I will demo what I buy for both skis and bikes.

  20. #20
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    I have a 2x front ring on my 5010V2. It helps with the climbing when above timberline in Western Colorado.

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