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  1. #1
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    Rim Brakes on a 650 Conversion

    Does anyone know if rim brakes will work on a 650b conversion? Is there a more adjustable 26'' rim brake that will extend out to work with 650b?

    I have tried searching the internet with no luck. Thanks for all your help guys and gals!
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  2. #2
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    some canti brakes will work. you may be able to do some minor filing if they dont clear.

  3. #3
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    Paul Components

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669
    Does anyone know if rim brakes will work on a 650b conversion? Is there a more adjustable 26'' rim brake that will extend out to work with 650b?

    I have tried searching the internet with no luck. Thanks for all your help guys and gals!
    Coincidence I was just thinking the same thing as i was looking at the Bontrager 650 thread. Looks like he's running canti's though.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  4. #4
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    Onza HOX's work, as do the above pictured V's. Actually when you raise the posts that high you might want to use a cantilever compatible lever instead as you're lowering the effective leverage of the V brakes.

  5. #5
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    Thanks a ton guys! Im leaning toward the paul brakes. They are kinda pricey but they are clean looking and light weight.
    I did more research and found that the cane creek direct curve 5 also works.
    I also found this product. = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=263602_263622

    has anyone had experience with this? ^

    you may be able to do some minor filing if they dont clear.
    ^^^thats definitely the least expensive option and might be the route i take.

    use a cantilever compatible lever
    wow, i didnt know there was a difference in the levers i really need to do my research before i throw a ton money into the build.

    Im leaning toward an ebay carbon frame (just like nixon_fiend) and building a lightweight 650b rigid single speed xc monster.

    Thanks for all your help and ill keep yall posted with pics when i get around to the build.
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  6. #6
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    http://www.paulcomp.com/motobmx.html

    On the Paul's brakes they have 2 versions. Use the BMX one as it has way more adjustment.

    Tim

  7. #7
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    Those brake stud mounts for BMX bikes could work also but depends on whether your frame has removable brake studs probably. Many steel frames for example did not.

  8. #8
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    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Those brake stud mounts for BMX bikes could work also but depends on whether your frame has removable brake studs probably. Many steel frames for example did not.
    My VooDoo Bizango has removable/adjustible v-brake studs but not enough adjustment for 650 wheel. Have to go disc in back.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  9. #9
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    The straddle cable on the paul's brakes wont clear the knobs on either the 2.1 neo-moto or the quasi. So I'm afraid they don't work.
    However, there is a set of BMX brakes made by kmk, or is it knt, I can't remember the name, anyway, you can get them on eBay for really cheap, and they work. for 26 to 650b conversions on rim brakes.

  10. #10
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    Thats an option. Though, I have found that most BMX brakes are heavy which would defeat the purpose of the rim brakes in this particular application. Im seriously considering going in the light disk route...
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  11. #11
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    I have some FMF brakes that work, but they were discontinued and I have no idea if they are light or not. How easy is it to find light, rim brake compatible 650b rims anyway?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    I have some FMF brakes that work, but they were discontinued and I have no idea if they are light or not. How easy is it to find light, rim brake compatible 650b rims anyway?
    Yes, that's right they are the FMF brakes and they work really well and I don't think they were that heavy.

    The point of using rim brakes for me was that my conversion frame didn't have disk tabs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jencks
    Yes, that's right they are the FMF brakes and they work really well and I don't think they were that heavy.

    The point of using rim brakes for me was that my conversion frame didn't have disk tabs.
    I have a pair in decent condition- I'd trade if someone needs them.

  14. #14
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    Avid Tri-aligns work great if you can find a set.

    The Pauls are V brakes, but otherwise they look very similar. If noodle clearance is a problem I wonder if they could be reconfigured as old-school cantis? Need to use the appropriate lever of course. Clearance would definitely be ample if it could be done...

  15. #15
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    Avid Tri-Align 3s would be great. The cantilever 1 and 2s, not so much. Actually come to think of it, my Westpine Triple Alignment Cantilevers (its who Avid bought the patented design for the tri-align from) should work well enough also.

    <img src="http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/bikes/strat6.jpg">

  16. #16
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    How easy is it to find light, rim brake compatible 650b rims anyway?
    Haha yeah, it doesnt seem like there is much of a market for 650b rim brake rims. I feel like disks might be the way to go if i can fork over the coin for em.

    ill keep my eye out for a retro set Avid Tri ali. 3s.
    Im weary about pauls. they are expensive and might not work.
    Im gonna steer clear of BMX brakes. too heavy
    FMF are contenders as well

    After riding a fairly steep trail at Blankets Creek, Woodstock GA i think i might have to fork the coin for disks. The cantis on my current bike were not adequate for really fast, steep, and wet trails.
    Hell, the added bling of some nice hydro disks will definitely improve my chances of getting laid.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669
    Haha yeah, it doesnt seem like there is much of a market for 650b rim brake rims. I feel like disks might be the way to go if i can fork over the coin for em.

    ill keep my eye out for a retro set Avid Tri ali. 3s.
    Im weary about pauls. they are expensive and might not work.
    Im gonna steer clear of BMX brakes. too heavy
    FMF are contenders as well

    After riding a fairly steep trail at Blankets Creek, Woodstock GA i think i might have to fork the coin for disks. The cantis on my current bike were not adequate for really fast, steep, and wet trails.
    Hell, the added bling of some nice hydro disks will definitely improve my chances of getting laid.
    the stans ztr 355 650b rims may be suitable for this application. I have a pair but Im running discs. The rim is Anodized so you would potentially have to remove this surface. anyway, were you able to source some brakes that could work. Im curios because Im trying to convert an old Ti frame that I picked up.

  18. #18
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    Discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by pdxplosif
    the stans ztr 355 650b rims may be suitable for this application. I have a pair but Im running discs. The rim is Anodized so you would potentially have to remove this surface. anyway, were you able to source some brakes that could work. Im curios because Im trying to convert an old Ti frame that I picked up.
    Yes v brake surface but for some reason Stans is not running the 355 anymore.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  19. #19
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    just wanted to bring this back...
    Looking for some options myself. Originally picked up some bmx style brake post extensions, but found they won't work with my application without some modification. So, back to the drawing board and hoping to find a cheap option for brakes that will have enough adjustment... either canti or linear...

  20. #20
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    The new Shimano CX brakes work great, Velocity Synergy rims.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/saddleupbike/8176484499/" title="650b Long Haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8208/8176484499_090cc01307_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="650b Long Haul Trucker"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/saddleupbike/8176515756/" title="650b Long Haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8481/8176515756_1d94a2e316_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="650b Long Haul Trucker"></a>

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    The new Shimano CX brakes work great, Velocity Synergy rims.
    26" Long Haul Trucker?

  22. #22
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    Good eye.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/saddleupbike/8176485693/" title="650b Long Haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8207/8176485693_ceaca223d0_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="650b Long Haul Trucker"></a>

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    The new Shimano CX brakes work great, Velocity Synergy rims.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/saddleupbike/8176484499/" title="650b Long Haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8208/8176484499_090cc01307_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="650b Long Haul Trucker"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/saddleupbike/8176515756/" title="650b Long Haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8481/8176515756_1d94a2e316_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="650b Long Haul Trucker"></a>
    Those aren't Synergys in the photo are they? I thought they only came in silver?? I just built some up last night for a little frankenstein project...

    I might have to look into those CX brakes.

    ...can anyone confirm if the brake cable on V-brakes really causes clearance issues with 2.1 or larger tires, like mentioned way above about the Pauls??




    Also, I've stumbled across this:
    V-Brake Adapter for 700c Wheels | Xtracycle, Inc.

    But, like the bmx "brake extensions", it appears that one also requires removeable brake posts, which my Ibis does not have...
    Schralp it Heavy.

  24. #24
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    Got them when black was still available.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    Got them when black was still available.
    ah, didn't realize it ever was. I usually much prefer black rims, but I guess with this whole retro vibe I'm going with on this build, the silver probably fits better...



    here's a link to another thread with some photos of that now elusive FMF v-brake, and also another comment on how Paul Moto's may have too low of a cable for tire clearance.
    FMF brake for 650b conversion
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  26. #26
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    I heard Paul's motolites are supposed to be the best for the rim brake conversion. They are on the spendy side, but man do they ever look nice. Is the cable really too low? I've considered them for a while for an older mtb, but may have to reconsider. Bummer.

  27. #27
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    Anyone happen to have some length measurements on the Paul Moto's?
    Maybe by chance the FMF as well?
    This way we can attempt to compile some criteria to compare other brakes to see if they may work as well...

    Looks liie Bombshell may make another contender... As well as those LDC's.
    Unfortunately all of those bmx race brakes are typically low volume production, heavily machined, and therefore way too costly to buy simply to guinea pig!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI View Post
    Anyone happen to have some length measurements on the Paul Moto's?
    Maybe by chance the FMF as well?
    This way we can attempt to compile some criteria to compare other brakes to see if they may work as well...
    The FMF measures 4-5/16" from the brake stud center to the cable mount. Also important is that the FMF allows brake pad adjustment from 3/4" to 2-5/8" from the stud.

    If I had an older decent frame to convert i would consider having disc brake mounts added to the frame, the benefit being much better choice of rims. I ran Synergy's which have a brake track but they don't work tubeless. I also have 355's but there isn't much rim area for the brake.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelbike View Post
    The FMF measures 4-5/16" from the brake stud center to the cable mount. Also important is that the FMF allows brake pad adjustment from 3/4" to 2-5/8" from the stud.

    If I had an older decent frame to convert i would consider having disc brake mounts added to the frame, the benefit being much better choice of rims. I ran Synergy's which have a brake track but they don't work tubeless. I also have 355's but there isn't much rim area for the brake.
    Awesome, I really appreciate the measurements! Wasn't sure if I'd find anyone still hanging around here to check the FMF's. Figured the Pauls would be much more common, which brings me to the question of what the full length of the Motos are, since many claim the cable placement is too low for tire clearance, although by design the upper pad reach adjustment is probably greater than the FMFs and others.

    I like how you measured center of pivot to center of cable mount.
    Converted to metric, length is just shy of 110mm, and upper limit of pad adjustment is about 66.7mm.
    So I'm now assuming Motos must be down near the 100mm length range...?
    I see some v-brakes made by BOX, listed as 108mm length, but no clue on pad range, although looks short.


    Oh and why do you say the Synergy is not tubeless compatible?? too deep to seat??
    These are what I just built up for this project and I liked building them.
    And no disc conversion on my old Ibis Mojo, I won't be altering the frame at all. I've got plenty of other disc equipped rides in the stable anyway....

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI View Post
    Awesome, I really appreciate the measurements! Wasn't sure if I'd find anyone still hanging around here to check the FMF's. Figured the Pauls would be much more common, which brings me to the question of what the full length of the Motos are, since many claim the cable placement is too low for tire clearance, although by design the upper pad reach adjustment is probably greater than the FMFs and others.

    I like how you measured center of pivot to center of cable mount.
    Converted to metric, length is just shy of 110mm, and upper limit of pad adjustment is about 66.7mm.
    So I'm now assuming Motos must be down near the 100mm length range...?
    I see some v-brakes made by BOX, listed as 108mm length, but no clue on pad range, although looks short.


    Oh and why do you say the Synergy is not tubeless compatible?? too deep to seat??
    These are what I just built up for this project and I liked building them.
    And no disc conversion on my old Ibis Mojo, I won't be altering the frame at all. I've got plenty of other disc equipped rides in the stable anyway....
    The Neo-Motos I had were a loose fit on the Synergy's I had. Others might be better. As I recall there was a recall by Velocity around 2007/08 so it should be better now. Their CS is pretty good, they sent me a new set of rims but I had already moved on to another rim. Your's might work out just fine.
    I had a steel Mojo, I believe it was from the last year in Sebastopol. Anyway I tried a couple of conversions to see what would happen on this. First was a 29er front - the front end was way too slow for me. Later I tried 650b on it. Quasi-Motos cleared with no problem but I never felt comfortable with this arrangement. Back to 26 and it rode great again. The way I set it up just didn't work for me. YMMV.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelbike View Post
    The Neo-Motos I had were a loose fit on the Synergy's I had. Others might be better. As I recall there was a recall by Velocity around 2007/08 so it should be better now. Their CS is pretty good, they sent me a new set of rims but I had already moved on to another rim. Your's might work out just fine.
    I had a steel Mojo, I believe it was from the last year in Sebastopol. Anyway I tried a couple of conversions to see what would happen on this. First was a 29er front - the front end was way too slow for me. Later I tried 650b on it. Quasi-Motos cleared with no problem but I never felt comfortable with this arrangement. Back to 26 and it rode great again. The way I set it up just didn't work for me. YMMV.
    Happen to have any photos of your converted Mojo? What brakes did you use in that case, with 650b?
    Do you think NeoMotos wouod have fit the rear?? Or only the skinnier quasi?

    And I agree, Velocity is good people.

  32. #32
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    I had some avid mag Vs that would let the pad reach the rim, the problem was that the cable would not clear the top of the tire tread. I rigged a really ugly extender thing that worked for a while.

    But now I'm just using Sinz brake post extenders, its like they were made for wheel size conversions....oh wait they were!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_co2 View Post
    I had some avid mag Vs that would let the pad reach the rim, the problem was that the cable would not clear the top of the tire tread. I rigged a really ugly extender thing that worked for a while.

    But now I'm just using Sinz brake post extenders, its like they were made for wheel size conversions....oh wait they were!

    I actually have some of those Sinz extensions, and I see another company called Elevn makes some too...
    But regardless, most all steel frames, this Ibis I'm reviving included, do not have removeable brake posts. The extenders won't fit over the lower part of the stud either (to use some spacers and bolts to hold extension piece secure over existing posts), atleast without some altering and modification... which is what led me back to just looking for some rim brakes with more adjustment.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeSATORI View Post
    Happen to have any photos of your converted Mojo? What brakes did you use in that case, with 650b?
    Do you think NeoMotos wouod have fit the rear?? Or only the skinnier quasi?

    And I agree, Velocity is good people.
    Sorry, no pictures. The rear had the FMF brake and the front was an Avid BB7. I only tried the Quasi-Motos.

  35. #35
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    Well, now using some WTB Speedmaster cantis and they work great! I was skeptical that the lost leverage (due to sliding pad way up the arm) would make the setup garbage, but response is still pretty decent! I'm pleasantly surprised. ...now just to be sure I do not overtighten these old brakes and crack'em!!

    Also have an old set of Paul canti's that work decent too.


    But, on the other hand, I set-up my front fork (Manitou) with my Sinz "brake extensions" to try to retain original brake arm/pad geometry... and WOW, what a bunch TRASH that is... FLEX LIKE MAD. Feels horrible, but I guess I should've expected that, with adding so many extra parts floating out in space with no bracing... And since both the Paul cantis and the WTB Speedmasters have external tension springs it won't allow me to use a booster to try to tighten things up from flexing outward.

    I'll try to post some pics later.
    Schralp it Heavy.

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