View Poll Results: Would you buy some 36er tires?

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  • Heck no.

    131 54.58%
  • I'll take one (unicyclist)

    13 5.42%
  • I'd buy a set for my bike.

    65 27.08%
  • I'd buy multiple sets, for my bike/uni, and to support the project

    31 12.92%
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  1. #1
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    Poll: 36er tires

    So Matt and I are hearing some semi-encouraging things. Don't get too excited, there are a lot of hurdles remaining to jump through - but I want to take a minute to assess interest.

    How many of you would buy a set (or more) of 36er tires that fit this rough profile?
    -900-1000g weight
    -*Probably* sealant-ready for tubeless use
    -A tread pattern in the small-knob (think Kenda Small Block 8) or medium knob (think Maxxis Ignitor) range.
    -2.2 or 2.3" size
    -Cost of somewhere around $100/tire. That might come down some depending on interest, but it's probably not going to end up much below the cost of the Nimbus. If there's enough interest for a second run (or more) of tires, that cost will drop dramatically, of course.

    Please pass on the link to this poll to your unicyclist and 36er cyclist friends and have them come express their opinion.

    FWIW, we'd love to hear your opinions about what specific tread patterns/sizes you want as well, but our selection will be limited to already-existing patterns from the company (who I won't name, and you have most likely never heard of).
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  2. #2
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    Road unicyclist here:

    Any ideas on max pressure? Would it be pretty rough as-is on the road? Would I be able to cut off the knobs and get at least 1500km out of one?

    This is exciting!

    Phil

  3. #3
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    I'll take maybe two sets, my builder might take two sets more as he's building another 36er for a taller dude than me.
    thread thoughts : mine will be a randonneur, so 50% road/50% fire road, so a cyclocross type (small knob ok, not too aggressive) will be fine.
    Thanks Walt !
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  4. #4
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    Id be in for 4-6 tires on the first go round!!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

    MR. 36er TROLL


  5. #5
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    Ouch...$100 per tire.

    We'd definitely buy 2. We are planning to make a 36er soon and would love to have better rubber for it.

    Thanks
    CJB

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBaron View Post
    Ouch...$100 per tire.

    We'd definitely buy 2. We are planning to make a 36er soon and would love to have better rubber for it.

    Thanks
    CJB
    Nimbus Nightrider are at 82$ (plus tax, plus shipping I guess), so...
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  7. #7
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    I'd definitely be in for a set of two and perhaps a second set if it looked like a one shot run. Don't currently have a 36er but is on my must have list.

  8. #8
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    I'm in for 4 tires personally and might could be talked into a little initial investment capital to help share the initial 'batch' purchase.

  9. #9
    That Unicycle Guy
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    I started a thread on the unicycle forums linking to this one, might get a bit more attention.

    I would go for one for sure, preferably with the smaller knobs for a more versatile/road friendly tread.

  10. #10
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    I'd like at least 3. The knobbier the better please.

  11. #11
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    One set please, for a project.

  12. #12
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    I'd take three; my idea tread would be something similar to the Nightrider; for road and hard-packed dirt use (unicycle), but lighter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Id be in for 4-6 tires on the first go round!!!!
    Thanks to Todwil for getting this rolling BTW. I am optimistic we can get this done.

    I'd take a couple pair and like David mentioned, Nightriders are 82 so I'd pay more for half the weight and better traction. I'll take whatever tread, would lean towards knobbier for eventual wet and loose conditions but could make a small block 8 work for 90% of what I ride.

    Matt

    Looks like 40ish so far, not bad. If a couple builders picked up a few pair it would go a long way too. I'll get in touch with James to gauge what he'd use in a year.

  14. #14
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    36er subject is one of the reason I registered here (finally)
    Count me in for one set.

  15. #15
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    Probably somewhere around 60psi?

    I do not have an answer to that question, but my assumption as of now is that these would be the same as any other mountain bike-type tire and have a max PSI in the 45-60 range somewhere.

    No idea on the durability minus knobs. This is not intended to be a road tire, really - more of an all-arounder capable of being used for riding offroad on most terrain.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by uniphil View Post
    Road unicyclist here:

    Any ideas on max pressure? Would it be pretty rough as-is on the road? Would I be able to cut off the knobs and get at least 1500km out of one?

    This is exciting!

    Phil
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
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  16. #16
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    unicycle 36" lightweight tire

    Quote Originally Posted by ericpulvermacher View Post
    I would go for one for sure, preferably with the smaller knobs for a more versatile/road friendly tread.
    Props to saskatchewanian for sharing this thread on unicyclistdotcom. The consensus over on RecSportUnicycle (RSU) seems to be similar to what Eric said looking for smaller knobs on paved roads with intermittent camber. Even then we might end up shaving some knobs off to save even more weight. I have already reduced the weight in my tube by 30% with the Nimbus FOSS tube. The most important weight to reduce is rotational weight and my Nimbus NightRider tire alone weighs 4 lbs! I would definitely purchase two. One for my Nimbus (disc brake) Impulse unicycle and another for my new Kris Holm (geared hub) Schlumpf unicycle. Check out what they are saying over on RSU. If you build it, they will come.

  17. #17
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    Maybe?

    I'm definitely interested in 36er tires, but Small Block 8? Is that the "go-to" tread pattern for 29er's? I was thinking of something like the Mountain King....
    "I can only assume chan slap is what happens when you get assaulted by Jackie Chan. I don't think anybody can prevent that."

  18. #18
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    One set plus a spare probably, Small Block 8 style knobs would work for me.

    Thumbs up for the guys who are pushing for this to happen !!!

  19. #19
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    I'll definitely take TWO!
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  20. #20
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    I would be happy to commit to 4 of the the 2.3" wide.

    Tread: if it has more open space then the Night rider and some side knob I would be so happy

    Side knob good ATMHO for 36er

    2.2 .. harder sell for me need some rubber between my rim and the rocks.
    I would still buy but more for the sake of science. and not 4 to start.

    Tire casing seems to make a bigger difference to me then the pattern of the knob.
    Supple side walls make for smoother ride then 4 ply.
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  21. #21
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    As with 29ers...

    For a "first tire", we have to aim for the widest possible appeal. You may or may not remember the Nanoraptor (the "first tire" for 29ers) - it's essentially a semi-knob/semislick. It's not the perfect tire for everyone, or even most people, but it's acceptable to most riders on most terrain. That's what we're going for here. If in a few years everyone is riding a 36er, tire selection will probably improve.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by thesenator View Post
    I'm definitely interested in 36er tires, but Small Block 8? Is that the "go-to" tread pattern for 29er's? I was thinking of something like the Mountain King....
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesenator View Post
    I'm definitely interested in 36er tires, but Small Block 8? Is that the "go-to" tread pattern for 29er's? I was thinking of something like the Mountain King....
    Depends on what you ride. Ideally I would run a Nevegal up front and SB8 in the rear for 98% of the rides I do but no way there is enough demand for 2 separate tires yet. Only in mud have I ever not wanted the SB8 on back. Your terrain/skill/style may very well dictate something different.

    This is the choice we are discussing here (sorry for fuzzy pics), but all input is welcome:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Poll: 36er tires-36er-choice.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keener View Post
    I would be happy to commit to 4 of the the 2.3" wide.

    Tread: if it has more open space then the Night rider and some side knob I would be so happy

    Side knob good ATMHO for 36er

    2.2 .. harder sell for me need some rubber between my rim and the rocks.
    I would still buy but more for the sake of science. and not 4 to start.

    Tire casing seems to make a bigger difference to me then the pattern of the knob.
    Supple side walls make for smoother ride then 4 ply.
    Casing would be 120 TPI if 36er version mimics 29er tire.

  24. #24
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    Pretty good showing so far if everyone is voting seriously, if we can double production numbers price would potentially drop 25% which would make these a bargain compared to Nightriders for a much better tire.

  25. #25
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    Walt, Matt thanks for your effort!

    I ordered a 36er last week @ BS and would take 2 or 3 new tires in the hopefully near future
    Ridin ridin ridin..... raw ti!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joop View Post
    Walt, Matt thanks for your effort!

    I ordered a 36er last week @ BS and would take 2 or 3 new tires in the hopefully near future
    sales are improving !
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  27. #27
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    Amazing response...

    I'd say, based on this response, that if the pricing is what we think it is, we'll probably be able to lower the per-unit price by a decent amount. I was honestly not expecting anything like this many responses!

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by davidfrench View Post
    sales are improving !
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'd say, based on this response, that if the pricing is what we think it is, we'll probably be able to lower the per-unit price by a decent amount. I was honestly not expecting anything like this many responses!

    -Walt
    awesome !
    (I was refering to tire sales and the BlackShip sale too !)
    Last edited by davidfrench; 10-15-2011 at 11:27 AM.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    For a "first tire", we have to aim for the widest possible appeal. You may or may not remember the Nanoraptor (the "first tire" for 29ers) - it's essentially a semi-knob/semislick. It's not the perfect tire for everyone, or even most people, but it's acceptable to most riders on most terrain. That's what we're going for here. If in a few years everyone is riding a 36er, tire selection will probably improve.

    -Walt
    Exactly what I was thinking also, so people get to building those 3 foot wheeled bikes!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

    MR. 36er TROLL


  30. #30
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    I'd get several.... and thinking about a 36er getting built....or fat bike....
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot View Post
    I'd get several.... and thinking about a 36er getting built....or fat bike....
    Tough choice, I think we have all been there. Lots of choices now with fat bike components, forks, tires, etc. I decided 36er as I won't be riding in the snow and the sand I ride on is hardpack enough for the 36er to float pretty well with the wide rim.

    Go with both!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Pretty good showing so far if everyone is voting seriously, if we can double production numbers price would potentially drop 25% which would make these a bargain compared to Nightriders for a much better tire.
    I'm very curious to know what it is that makes these new tires nearly 2 pounds *lighter* than the current nightrider, which weighs in at a hefty 4 lbs! Will these new tires dispense with the wire bead, and have a folding bead, and/or will the sidewalls be less plys, or is it something lighter in the rubber compound and a lot less rubber on the tread? I would love to get at least one of these but I'm just very curious about what manufacturing methods were/are, or will be used to make them so super light.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    I'm very curious to know what it is that makes these new tires nearly 2 pounds *lighter* than the current nightrider, which weighs in at a hefty 4 lbs! Will these new tires dispense with the wire bead, and have a folding bead, and/or will the sidewalls be less plys, or is it something lighter in the rubber compound and a lot less rubber on the tread? I would love to get at least one of these but I'm just very curious about what manufacturing methods were/are, or will be used to make them so super light.
    One word... Aliens.

    No but seriously I'll take one; preferably something with small knobs that's mostly road oriented.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    I'm very curious to know what it is that makes these new tires nearly 2 pounds *lighter* than the current nightrider, which weighs in at a hefty 4 lbs! Will these new tires dispense with the wire bead, and have a folding bead, and/or will the sidewalls be less plys, or is it something lighter in the rubber compound and a lot less rubber on the tread? I would love to get at least one of these but I'm just very curious about what manufacturing methods were/are, or will be used to make them so super light.
    The Nightrider is a 4ply tire with a ton of tread and rubber throughout. Very rudimentary but all we've had until now.

    This new tire will be made like all good tires. 2ply, high TPI, potentially tubeless folding bead and dual compound. Essentially its just a better manufacturer with better technology at its hands. Take a good 29er tire that runs 700g and do the math to increase to 36" and you're at 900g.

    No aliens involved to my knowledge.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    The Nightrider is a 4ply tire with a ton of tread and rubber throughout. Very rudimentary but all we've had until now.

    This new tire will be made like all good tires. 2ply, high TPI, potentially tubeless folding bead and dual compound. Essentially its just a better manufacturer with better technology at its hands. Take a good 29er tire that runs 700g and do the math to increase to 36" and you're at 900g.

    No aliens involved to my knowledge.
    FYI, The nightrider 36er tire is TWO PLY, not four. So the weight savings will have to come from somewhere else,like making it a ONE ply, or at a very minimum, the new tire would undoubtedly have to be a folding bead. But that alone probably wouldn't make it 2 pounds less than the nightrider.
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  36. #36
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    Make one for me, too, please. I vote for the road-friendly tread. Although I ride off road with my 36er, I do that with a Wheel TA which is knobless. So even a few knobs will increase my grip. The real benefit for me will be increased efficiency in road riding.

    Does it seem odd to anyone that twice as many of these tires will be ordered by unicyclists than by bicyclists?

    Geoff

  37. #37
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    I understand...

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    For a "first tire", we have to aim for the widest possible appeal. You may or may not remember the Nanoraptor (the "first tire" for 29ers) - it's essentially a semi-knob/semislick. It's not the perfect tire for everyone, or even most people, but it's acceptable to most riders on most terrain. That's what we're going for here. If in a few years everyone is riding a 36er, tire selection will probably improve.

    -Walt
    ..that we want a tread design which will be favored by a wide audience. I was simply asking if the Small Block was it? I had no idea it ever won any popularity contests. I feel a tire can have mass appeal without being mediocre. I'm sure someone (Shiggy, Mikesee?) could tell us what the top three, best-selling, 29er tires are...

    Why so secretive? Tell us about the other project criteria. Did someone say if we can double the order, we can lower the price signicantly further? How many orders do we need to have?
    "I can only assume chan slap is what happens when you get assaulted by Jackie Chan. I don't think anybody can prevent that."

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturequack View Post
    Does it seem odd to anyone that twice as many of these tires will be ordered by unicyclists than by bicyclists?

    Geoff
    You certainly outnumber us... so far Although the poll seems to indicate the opposite to what you state (6 Unis, 38+ bikers).

    Quote Originally Posted by thesenator View Post
    ..that we want a tread design which will be favored by a wide audience. I was simply asking if the Small Block was it? I had no idea it ever won any popularity contests. I feel a tire can have mass appeal without being mediocre. I'm sure someone (Shiggy, Mikesee?) could tell us what the top three, best-selling, 29er tires are...

    Why so secretive? Tell us about the other project criteria. Did someone say if we can double the order, we can lower the price signicantly further? How many orders do we need to have?
    Nothing secretive, we just don't have the details yet as we just got this started. We can order as many tires as we want, but someone has to pay for, store, ship, carry extra inventory etc on all these tires so we'll be ordering more than we think we'll sell but not much more than that. More tires drives the fixed cost of getting a mold made down pretty quickly. The good news is a second run would be considerably cheaper but we don't know what demand will be in the next few years so I'm not betting on anything past this initial run. Hence the importance of getting the tread right for mass appeal. If we had 1000 people wanting tires, the price would be closer to $50-60 and I'd see no reason to not do two different treads but 100 is not 1000.

    Walt posted the poll to gauge interest and get ideas on tread prior to getting anything set in stone with the manufacturer and prior to either of us outlaying cash and more importantly a lot of time, as neither of us has much of it to spend on extra projects. We don't know how long this will take, what it will cost, or who will be handling everything at this point so bear with us.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    FYI, The nightrider 36er tire is TWO PLY, not four. So the weight savings will have to come from somewhere else,like making it a ONE ply, or at a very minimum, the new tire would undoubtedly have to be a folding bead. But that alone probably wouldn't make it 2 pounds less than the nightrider.
    You are correct, my mistake. Was thinking about the Cokers when I wrote that.

    Just took a look at a dissected Small Block 8 - casing is 1mm, tread base is another 1-1.5mm and knobbies are another 2-3mm so you're looking at about 5-6mm total in the thickest section. I do not have a dissected Nightrider but I imagine that all of those numbers are doubled and that the rubber used is probably heavier as well. Wire bead doesn't help but I have no clue what they weigh.

    I would ask the question in the opposite - what makes these tires so HEAVY? The equivalent 29er tire would weigh 1650g, 26er would weigh 1500g. What makes that type of tire so heavy?

  40. #40
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    I think out of those two options I would vote for "A". The center knobs look about the same on both A and B, but A looks like it has a consistent distribution of side knobs for a better transition from center to sidewall when leaned. It looks like a reasonable tread design for front and rear (until there is a 36" Rampage/Nevegal available for the front!).

    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Depends on what you ride. Ideally I would run a Nevegal up front and SB8 in the rear for 98% of the rides I do but no way there is enough demand for 2 separate tires yet. Only in mud have I ever not wanted the SB8 on back. Your terrain/skill/style may very well dictate something different.

    This is the choice we are discussing here (sorry for fuzzy pics), but all input is welcome:

  41. #41
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    Walt, thanks for putting this together.

    I ride muni, so for me the tire that's missing from the current mix is sometng with sipping, a supple sidewall, and less weight, so I'd vote for tread A, though tread B is fine. Really, anything that's lighter and has a more trail oriented tread is going to be fine.

    Based on what I'm paying for quality 29er tires and fatty 26er tires now, I think $100-120 per tire is fair, esp when existing 36er tires are priced the same. If folks want cheap 36er tires, there are already cheaper tires available.

    Count me in for one a year x five years

  42. #42
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    It's not hard

    The nightrider just uses a TON of very dense rubber. It will be very easy to cut the weight in half, if not more. You are of course not required to believe me, but if you take a brief look at some of the 29" (or 26") tire offerings, you'll see that a reasonably durable all-around XC 29er tire is in the 600-700g range. Add 25% to that for a 36er and you're actually still well under 900g - but I'm assuming we'll need/want a bit more beef in the bead and maybe some extra rubber, so it could go a bit higher.

    I think 1000g is a very safe and conservative estimate, but this is just vaporware for now, so you are certainly not required to take my word for it.

    -Walt



    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    FYI, The nightrider 36er tire is TWO PLY, not four. So the weight savings will have to come from somewhere else,like making it a ONE ply, or at a very minimum, the new tire would undoubtedly have to be a folding bead. But that alone probably wouldn't make it 2 pounds less than the nightrider.
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  43. #43
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    I ride a unicycle, and I think I like tread A better. Also, I want one

  44. #44
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    just did a group 36er trail ride in Santa Cruz and had my sewn up RaRa, a few people had a go on it and everyone loves the lighter weight. I mentioned you guys were probably going to make some nice light off-roadable tires and there was definite interest form riders who don't visit either forums.

    I think it is pretty safe to say that there is a market for a light offroadable 36er tire, but of course it is still pretty niche.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericpulvermacher View Post
    just did a group 36er trail ride in Santa Cruz and had my sewn up RaRa, a few people had a go on it and everyone loves the lighter weight. I mentioned you guys were probably going to make some nice light off-roadable tires and there was definite interest form riders who don't visit either forums.

    I think it is pretty safe to say that there is a market for a light offroadable 36er tire, but of course it is still pretty niche.
    Thanks for spreading the word! This is a much larger niche than I think any of us thought it would be.

    How's the RaRa holding up? My sewing plans are on hold now

  46. #46
    That Unicycle Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    How's the RaRa holding up? My sewing plans are on hold now
    bead has stretched so I now have to be careful to get it even before going to full pressure but otherwise pretty well. the spot where the oin was starting to unglue on the sidewall hasn't spread and I have ridden it maybe another 100km since I noticed it. I am sure it was because of using stupid low pressures (and the glue didn't get all the way down to the bead on that particular join)

    I had plans for more sewn up tires but I have also put them on hold, I am interested in what you guys will end up with.

  47. #47
    That Unicycle Guy
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    UPDATE

    My sewn together tire just blew its bead after 800 km (500 miles).

    Makes a manufactured light weight 36" tire look that much more attractive.

  48. #48
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
    Reputation: DeeEight's Avatar
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    Ahh Vee Rubber... I gather they gave a better price for making the tire molds than panaracer or rubena ?
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  49. #49
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    ...so, I just did order my 2 tires from unicycle...
    204$...
    I wish the next ones will be the good ones !
    DirtySixer Bikes, California
    Big 32er & 36er bikes for tall riders
    DirtySixer
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  50. #50
    WIGGLER
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidfrench View Post
    ...so, I just did order my 2 tires from unicycle...
    204$...
    I wish the next ones will be the good ones !

    which did you get the nite rider or "coker"
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

    MR. 36er TROLL


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