Poll: Would you buy some 36er tires?

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  1. #1
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    Poll: 36er tires

    So Matt and I are hearing some semi-encouraging things. Don't get too excited, there are a lot of hurdles remaining to jump through - but I want to take a minute to assess interest.

    How many of you would buy a set (or more) of 36er tires that fit this rough profile?
    -900-1000g weight
    -*Probably* sealant-ready for tubeless use
    -A tread pattern in the small-knob (think Kenda Small Block 8) or medium knob (think Maxxis Ignitor) range.
    -2.2 or 2.3" size
    -Cost of somewhere around $100/tire. That might come down some depending on interest, but it's probably not going to end up much below the cost of the Nimbus. If there's enough interest for a second run (or more) of tires, that cost will drop dramatically, of course.

    Please pass on the link to this poll to your unicyclist and 36er cyclist friends and have them come express their opinion.

    FWIW, we'd love to hear your opinions about what specific tread patterns/sizes you want as well, but our selection will be limited to already-existing patterns from the company (who I won't name, and you have most likely never heard of).

  2. #2
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    Road unicyclist here:

    Any ideas on max pressure? Would it be pretty rough as-is on the road? Would I be able to cut off the knobs and get at least 1500km out of one?

    This is exciting!

    Phil

  3. #3
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    I'll take maybe two sets, my builder might take two sets more as he's building another 36er for a taller dude than me.
    thread thoughts : mine will be a randonneur, so 50% road/50% fire road, so a cyclocross type (small knob ok, not too aggressive) will be fine.
    Thanks Walt !
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  4. #4
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    Id be in for 4-6 tires on the first go round!!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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  5. #5
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    Ouch...$100 per tire.

    We'd definitely buy 2. We are planning to make a 36er soon and would love to have better rubber for it.

    Thanks
    CJB

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBaron View Post
    Ouch...$100 per tire.

    We'd definitely buy 2. We are planning to make a 36er soon and would love to have better rubber for it.

    Thanks
    CJB
    Nimbus Nightrider are at 82$ (plus tax, plus shipping I guess), so...
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    I'd definitely be in for a set of two and perhaps a second set if it looked like a one shot run. Don't currently have a 36er but is on my must have list.

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    I'm in for 4 tires personally and might could be talked into a little initial investment capital to help share the initial 'batch' purchase.

  9. #9
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    I started a thread on the unicycle forums linking to this one, might get a bit more attention.

    I would go for one for sure, preferably with the smaller knobs for a more versatile/road friendly tread.

  10. #10
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    I'd like at least 3. The knobbier the better please.

  11. #11
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    One set please, for a project.

  12. #12
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    I'd take three; my idea tread would be something similar to the Nightrider; for road and hard-packed dirt use (unicycle), but lighter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Id be in for 4-6 tires on the first go round!!!!
    Thanks to Todwil for getting this rolling BTW. I am optimistic we can get this done.

    I'd take a couple pair and like David mentioned, Nightriders are 82 so I'd pay more for half the weight and better traction. I'll take whatever tread, would lean towards knobbier for eventual wet and loose conditions but could make a small block 8 work for 90% of what I ride.

    Matt

    Looks like 40ish so far, not bad. If a couple builders picked up a few pair it would go a long way too. I'll get in touch with James to gauge what he'd use in a year.

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    36er subject is one of the reason I registered here (finally)
    Count me in for one set.

  15. #15
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    Probably somewhere around 60psi?

    I do not have an answer to that question, but my assumption as of now is that these would be the same as any other mountain bike-type tire and have a max PSI in the 45-60 range somewhere.

    No idea on the durability minus knobs. This is not intended to be a road tire, really - more of an all-arounder capable of being used for riding offroad on most terrain.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by uniphil View Post
    Road unicyclist here:

    Any ideas on max pressure? Would it be pretty rough as-is on the road? Would I be able to cut off the knobs and get at least 1500km out of one?

    This is exciting!

    Phil

  16. #16
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    unicycle 36" lightweight tire

    Quote Originally Posted by ericpulvermacher View Post
    I would go for one for sure, preferably with the smaller knobs for a more versatile/road friendly tread.
    Props to saskatchewanian for sharing this thread on unicyclistdotcom. The consensus over on RecSportUnicycle (RSU) seems to be similar to what Eric said looking for smaller knobs on paved roads with intermittent camber. Even then we might end up shaving some knobs off to save even more weight. I have already reduced the weight in my tube by 30% with the Nimbus FOSS tube. The most important weight to reduce is rotational weight and my Nimbus NightRider tire alone weighs 4 lbs! I would definitely purchase two. One for my Nimbus (disc brake) Impulse unicycle and another for my new Kris Holm (geared hub) Schlumpf unicycle. Check out what they are saying over on RSU. If you build it, they will come.

  17. #17
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    Maybe?

    I'm definitely interested in 36er tires, but Small Block 8? Is that the "go-to" tread pattern for 29er's? I was thinking of something like the Mountain King....
    "I can only assume chan slap is what happens when you get assaulted by Jackie Chan. I don't think anybody can prevent that."

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    One set plus a spare probably, Small Block 8 style knobs would work for me.

    Thumbs up for the guys who are pushing for this to happen !!!

  19. #19
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    I'll definitely take TWO!
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  20. #20
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    I would be happy to commit to 4 of the the 2.3" wide.

    Tread: if it has more open space then the Night rider and some side knob I would be so happy

    Side knob good ATMHO for 36er

    2.2 .. harder sell for me need some rubber between my rim and the rocks.
    I would still buy but more for the sake of science. and not 4 to start.

    Tire casing seems to make a bigger difference to me then the pattern of the knob.
    Supple side walls make for smoother ride then 4 ply.
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  21. #21
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    As with 29ers...

    For a "first tire", we have to aim for the widest possible appeal. You may or may not remember the Nanoraptor (the "first tire" for 29ers) - it's essentially a semi-knob/semislick. It's not the perfect tire for everyone, or even most people, but it's acceptable to most riders on most terrain. That's what we're going for here. If in a few years everyone is riding a 36er, tire selection will probably improve.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by thesenator View Post
    I'm definitely interested in 36er tires, but Small Block 8? Is that the "go-to" tread pattern for 29er's? I was thinking of something like the Mountain King....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesenator View Post
    I'm definitely interested in 36er tires, but Small Block 8? Is that the "go-to" tread pattern for 29er's? I was thinking of something like the Mountain King....
    Depends on what you ride. Ideally I would run a Nevegal up front and SB8 in the rear for 98% of the rides I do but no way there is enough demand for 2 separate tires yet. Only in mud have I ever not wanted the SB8 on back. Your terrain/skill/style may very well dictate something different.

    This is the choice we are discussing here (sorry for fuzzy pics), but all input is welcome:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Poll: 36er tires-36er-choice.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keener View Post
    I would be happy to commit to 4 of the the 2.3" wide.

    Tread: if it has more open space then the Night rider and some side knob I would be so happy

    Side knob good ATMHO for 36er

    2.2 .. harder sell for me need some rubber between my rim and the rocks.
    I would still buy but more for the sake of science. and not 4 to start.

    Tire casing seems to make a bigger difference to me then the pattern of the knob.
    Supple side walls make for smoother ride then 4 ply.
    Casing would be 120 TPI if 36er version mimics 29er tire.

  24. #24
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    Pretty good showing so far if everyone is voting seriously, if we can double production numbers price would potentially drop 25% which would make these a bargain compared to Nightriders for a much better tire.

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    Walt, Matt thanks for your effort!

    I ordered a 36er last week @ BS and would take 2 or 3 new tires in the hopefully near future
    Ridin ridin ridin..... raw ti!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joop View Post
    Walt, Matt thanks for your effort!

    I ordered a 36er last week @ BS and would take 2 or 3 new tires in the hopefully near future
    sales are improving !
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  27. #27
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    Amazing response...

    I'd say, based on this response, that if the pricing is what we think it is, we'll probably be able to lower the per-unit price by a decent amount. I was honestly not expecting anything like this many responses!

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by davidfrench View Post
    sales are improving !

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'd say, based on this response, that if the pricing is what we think it is, we'll probably be able to lower the per-unit price by a decent amount. I was honestly not expecting anything like this many responses!

    -Walt
    awesome !
    (I was refering to tire sales and the BlackShip sale too !)
    Last edited by davidfrench; 10-15-2011 at 10:27 AM.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    For a "first tire", we have to aim for the widest possible appeal. You may or may not remember the Nanoraptor (the "first tire" for 29ers) - it's essentially a semi-knob/semislick. It's not the perfect tire for everyone, or even most people, but it's acceptable to most riders on most terrain. That's what we're going for here. If in a few years everyone is riding a 36er, tire selection will probably improve.

    -Walt
    Exactly what I was thinking also, so people get to building those 3 foot wheeled bikes!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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    I'm sorry what part of "BIGLY" didn't you understand?

  30. #30
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    I'd get several.... and thinking about a 36er getting built....or fat bike....
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot View Post
    I'd get several.... and thinking about a 36er getting built....or fat bike....
    Tough choice, I think we have all been there. Lots of choices now with fat bike components, forks, tires, etc. I decided 36er as I won't be riding in the snow and the sand I ride on is hardpack enough for the 36er to float pretty well with the wide rim.

    Go with both!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Pretty good showing so far if everyone is voting seriously, if we can double production numbers price would potentially drop 25% which would make these a bargain compared to Nightriders for a much better tire.
    I'm very curious to know what it is that makes these new tires nearly 2 pounds *lighter* than the current nightrider, which weighs in at a hefty 4 lbs! Will these new tires dispense with the wire bead, and have a folding bead, and/or will the sidewalls be less plys, or is it something lighter in the rubber compound and a lot less rubber on the tread? I would love to get at least one of these but I'm just very curious about what manufacturing methods were/are, or will be used to make them so super light.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    I'm very curious to know what it is that makes these new tires nearly 2 pounds *lighter* than the current nightrider, which weighs in at a hefty 4 lbs! Will these new tires dispense with the wire bead, and have a folding bead, and/or will the sidewalls be less plys, or is it something lighter in the rubber compound and a lot less rubber on the tread? I would love to get at least one of these but I'm just very curious about what manufacturing methods were/are, or will be used to make them so super light.
    One word... Aliens.

    No but seriously I'll take one; preferably something with small knobs that's mostly road oriented.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    I'm very curious to know what it is that makes these new tires nearly 2 pounds *lighter* than the current nightrider, which weighs in at a hefty 4 lbs! Will these new tires dispense with the wire bead, and have a folding bead, and/or will the sidewalls be less plys, or is it something lighter in the rubber compound and a lot less rubber on the tread? I would love to get at least one of these but I'm just very curious about what manufacturing methods were/are, or will be used to make them so super light.
    The Nightrider is a 4ply tire with a ton of tread and rubber throughout. Very rudimentary but all we've had until now.

    This new tire will be made like all good tires. 2ply, high TPI, potentially tubeless folding bead and dual compound. Essentially its just a better manufacturer with better technology at its hands. Take a good 29er tire that runs 700g and do the math to increase to 36" and you're at 900g.

    No aliens involved to my knowledge.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    The Nightrider is a 4ply tire with a ton of tread and rubber throughout. Very rudimentary but all we've had until now.

    This new tire will be made like all good tires. 2ply, high TPI, potentially tubeless folding bead and dual compound. Essentially its just a better manufacturer with better technology at its hands. Take a good 29er tire that runs 700g and do the math to increase to 36" and you're at 900g.

    No aliens involved to my knowledge.
    FYI, The nightrider 36er tire is TWO PLY, not four. So the weight savings will have to come from somewhere else,like making it a ONE ply, or at a very minimum, the new tire would undoubtedly have to be a folding bead. But that alone probably wouldn't make it 2 pounds less than the nightrider.
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  36. #36
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    Make one for me, too, please. I vote for the road-friendly tread. Although I ride off road with my 36er, I do that with a Wheel TA which is knobless. So even a few knobs will increase my grip. The real benefit for me will be increased efficiency in road riding.

    Does it seem odd to anyone that twice as many of these tires will be ordered by unicyclists than by bicyclists?

    Geoff

  37. #37
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    I understand...

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    For a "first tire", we have to aim for the widest possible appeal. You may or may not remember the Nanoraptor (the "first tire" for 29ers) - it's essentially a semi-knob/semislick. It's not the perfect tire for everyone, or even most people, but it's acceptable to most riders on most terrain. That's what we're going for here. If in a few years everyone is riding a 36er, tire selection will probably improve.

    -Walt
    ..that we want a tread design which will be favored by a wide audience. I was simply asking if the Small Block was it? I had no idea it ever won any popularity contests. I feel a tire can have mass appeal without being mediocre. I'm sure someone (Shiggy, Mikesee?) could tell us what the top three, best-selling, 29er tires are...

    Why so secretive? Tell us about the other project criteria. Did someone say if we can double the order, we can lower the price signicantly further? How many orders do we need to have?
    "I can only assume chan slap is what happens when you get assaulted by Jackie Chan. I don't think anybody can prevent that."

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturequack View Post
    Does it seem odd to anyone that twice as many of these tires will be ordered by unicyclists than by bicyclists?

    Geoff
    You certainly outnumber us... so far Although the poll seems to indicate the opposite to what you state (6 Unis, 38+ bikers).

    Quote Originally Posted by thesenator View Post
    ..that we want a tread design which will be favored by a wide audience. I was simply asking if the Small Block was it? I had no idea it ever won any popularity contests. I feel a tire can have mass appeal without being mediocre. I'm sure someone (Shiggy, Mikesee?) could tell us what the top three, best-selling, 29er tires are...

    Why so secretive? Tell us about the other project criteria. Did someone say if we can double the order, we can lower the price signicantly further? How many orders do we need to have?
    Nothing secretive, we just don't have the details yet as we just got this started. We can order as many tires as we want, but someone has to pay for, store, ship, carry extra inventory etc on all these tires so we'll be ordering more than we think we'll sell but not much more than that. More tires drives the fixed cost of getting a mold made down pretty quickly. The good news is a second run would be considerably cheaper but we don't know what demand will be in the next few years so I'm not betting on anything past this initial run. Hence the importance of getting the tread right for mass appeal. If we had 1000 people wanting tires, the price would be closer to $50-60 and I'd see no reason to not do two different treads but 100 is not 1000.

    Walt posted the poll to gauge interest and get ideas on tread prior to getting anything set in stone with the manufacturer and prior to either of us outlaying cash and more importantly a lot of time, as neither of us has much of it to spend on extra projects. We don't know how long this will take, what it will cost, or who will be handling everything at this point so bear with us.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    FYI, The nightrider 36er tire is TWO PLY, not four. So the weight savings will have to come from somewhere else,like making it a ONE ply, or at a very minimum, the new tire would undoubtedly have to be a folding bead. But that alone probably wouldn't make it 2 pounds less than the nightrider.
    You are correct, my mistake. Was thinking about the Cokers when I wrote that.

    Just took a look at a dissected Small Block 8 - casing is 1mm, tread base is another 1-1.5mm and knobbies are another 2-3mm so you're looking at about 5-6mm total in the thickest section. I do not have a dissected Nightrider but I imagine that all of those numbers are doubled and that the rubber used is probably heavier as well. Wire bead doesn't help but I have no clue what they weigh.

    I would ask the question in the opposite - what makes these tires so HEAVY? The equivalent 29er tire would weigh 1650g, 26er would weigh 1500g. What makes that type of tire so heavy?

  40. #40
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    I think out of those two options I would vote for "A". The center knobs look about the same on both A and B, but A looks like it has a consistent distribution of side knobs for a better transition from center to sidewall when leaned. It looks like a reasonable tread design for front and rear (until there is a 36" Rampage/Nevegal available for the front!).

    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Depends on what you ride. Ideally I would run a Nevegal up front and SB8 in the rear for 98% of the rides I do but no way there is enough demand for 2 separate tires yet. Only in mud have I ever not wanted the SB8 on back. Your terrain/skill/style may very well dictate something different.

    This is the choice we are discussing here (sorry for fuzzy pics), but all input is welcome:

  41. #41
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    Walt, thanks for putting this together.

    I ride muni, so for me the tire that's missing from the current mix is sometng with sipping, a supple sidewall, and less weight, so I'd vote for tread A, though tread B is fine. Really, anything that's lighter and has a more trail oriented tread is going to be fine.

    Based on what I'm paying for quality 29er tires and fatty 26er tires now, I think $100-120 per tire is fair, esp when existing 36er tires are priced the same. If folks want cheap 36er tires, there are already cheaper tires available.

    Count me in for one a year x five years

  42. #42
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    It's not hard

    The nightrider just uses a TON of very dense rubber. It will be very easy to cut the weight in half, if not more. You are of course not required to believe me, but if you take a brief look at some of the 29" (or 26") tire offerings, you'll see that a reasonably durable all-around XC 29er tire is in the 600-700g range. Add 25% to that for a 36er and you're actually still well under 900g - but I'm assuming we'll need/want a bit more beef in the bead and maybe some extra rubber, so it could go a bit higher.

    I think 1000g is a very safe and conservative estimate, but this is just vaporware for now, so you are certainly not required to take my word for it.

    -Walt



    Quote Originally Posted by unigeezer View Post
    FYI, The nightrider 36er tire is TWO PLY, not four. So the weight savings will have to come from somewhere else,like making it a ONE ply, or at a very minimum, the new tire would undoubtedly have to be a folding bead. But that alone probably wouldn't make it 2 pounds less than the nightrider.

  43. #43
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    I ride a unicycle, and I think I like tread A better. Also, I want one

  44. #44
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    just did a group 36er trail ride in Santa Cruz and had my sewn up RaRa, a few people had a go on it and everyone loves the lighter weight. I mentioned you guys were probably going to make some nice light off-roadable tires and there was definite interest form riders who don't visit either forums.

    I think it is pretty safe to say that there is a market for a light offroadable 36er tire, but of course it is still pretty niche.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericpulvermacher View Post
    just did a group 36er trail ride in Santa Cruz and had my sewn up RaRa, a few people had a go on it and everyone loves the lighter weight. I mentioned you guys were probably going to make some nice light off-roadable tires and there was definite interest form riders who don't visit either forums.

    I think it is pretty safe to say that there is a market for a light offroadable 36er tire, but of course it is still pretty niche.
    Thanks for spreading the word! This is a much larger niche than I think any of us thought it would be.

    How's the RaRa holding up? My sewing plans are on hold now

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    How's the RaRa holding up? My sewing plans are on hold now
    bead has stretched so I now have to be careful to get it even before going to full pressure but otherwise pretty well. the spot where the oin was starting to unglue on the sidewall hasn't spread and I have ridden it maybe another 100km since I noticed it. I am sure it was because of using stupid low pressures (and the glue didn't get all the way down to the bead on that particular join)

    I had plans for more sewn up tires but I have also put them on hold, I am interested in what you guys will end up with.

  47. #47
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    UPDATE

    My sewn together tire just blew its bead after 800 km (500 miles).

    Makes a manufactured light weight 36" tire look that much more attractive.

  48. #48
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    Ahh Vee Rubber... I gather they gave a better price for making the tire molds than panaracer or rubena ?
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  49. #49
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    ...so, I just did order my 2 tires from unicycle...
    204$...
    I wish the next ones will be the good ones !
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidfrench View Post
    ...so, I just did order my 2 tires from unicycle...
    204$...
    I wish the next ones will be the good ones !

    which did you get the nite rider or "coker"
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  51. #51
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    the Nightrider...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Ahh Vee Rubber... I gather they gave a better price for making the tire molds than panaracer or rubena ?
    1/10th the price as they make their own molds and have no minimum (assuming the economics work from our end). More importantly they are willing to try new things and understand the importance of spreading brand awareness in a new market (the USA for them). Pretty good leadership in their new USA office from what I've seen.

  53. #53
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Anyone have an Extra NR?

    Anyone have an extra Nightrider we can send to the manufacturer for measurements and analysis through destruction? I've just got the 2 I'm riding on, but if nobody is game I'll just order a new one and send my lightly used one.

    Thanks in advance,

    Matt

  54. #54
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    Sorry Matt, I just ordered 2 Nightriders but they are being shipped to the builder...
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  55. #55
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    I have one that blew a bead at home. It's un-usable but could be measured.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Anyone have an extra Nightrider we can send to the manufacturer for measurements and analysis through destruction? I've just got the 2 I'm riding on, but if nobody is game I'll just order a new one and send my lightly used one.

    Thanks in advance,

    Matt
    I have 2 that I could free up, how ever those have stated coming off the bead as well. I also have TA rib,the Coker button, and if it was needed the Coker name sake.
    One pedal goes down
    the other goes up
    bike goes forward
    smile

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  57. #57
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    Thanks Keener and scotthue, I'm sending them a new one so no worries.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Anyone have an extra Nightrider we can send to the manufacturer for measurements and analysis through destruction? I've just got the 2 I'm riding on, but if nobody is game I'll just order a new one and send my lightly used one.

    Thanks in advance,

    Matt
    No nightriders but will have wore out Coker soon....sounds like you have the ball rollin'
    if I can assist let me know!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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  59. #59
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    Need to make some 2.0s to cut down on weight. Should be plenty enough float and grip in 36er diameter?

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    Matt, I have a brand new nightrider that I can ship out. PM me with where and I'll get it shipped.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Bedell View Post
    Matt, I have a brand new nightrider that I can ship out. PM me with where and I'll get it shipped.
    Thanks Brad, I already sent one out yesterday. No worries.

  62. #62
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    Tire Name

    Mat is time to name the tire yet? I was thinking something like "Yard Sticks"
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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    I'm sorry what part of "BIGLY" didn't you understand?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Mat is time to name the tire yet? I was thinking something like "Yard Sticks"
    and the color ? white ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Mat is time to name the tire yet? I was thinking something like "Yard Sticks"
    Pi*Yard, surely?

  65. #65
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    I figured you'd want Payasos. Too bad clown shoes is taken
    Although I think they will take the same tread name as the 29er counterpart.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidfrench View Post
    and the color ? white ?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    I figured you'd want Payasos. Too bad clown shoes is taken
    Although I think they will take the same tread name as the 29er counterpart.
    So V10 Yard Sticks sounds good?
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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    36ers are just stupid. i could maybe see for a unicycle but who rides unicycles anyway? i see them as kind of pointless, something you see in a circus not something used for transportation or even for fun (i dont think going 5 miles an hour and barely being able to turn or go over anything is particularly fun)

  68. #68
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    Move along then.
    They are as capable as any other bike from my experience (sometimes even faster), and certainly more fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooptroop123 View Post
    36ers are just stupid. i could maybe see for a unicycle but who rides unicycles anyway? i see them as kind of pointless, something you see in a circus not something used for transportation or even for fun (i dont think going 5 miles an hour and barely being able to turn or go over anything is particularly fun)
    lol. isn't the world more than how one sees it?

    Back on topic, what's the status on these tires? I know you don't want this question, but is there any estimate for when I can buy one?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooptroop123 View Post
    36ers are just stupid. i could maybe see for a unicycle but who rides unicycles anyway? i see them as kind of pointless, something you see in a circus not something used for transportation or even for fun (i dont think going 5 miles an hour and barely being able to turn or go over anything is particularly fun)
    Thank God, finally someone see the truth !
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  71. #71
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    Nothing yet but rest assured we'll update here with any new info.
    Waiting on pricing from manufacturer.
    Still not a definite go until we know what they're going to cost.
    Hoping for new info next week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Move along then.
    They are as capable as any other bike from my experience (sometimes even faster), and certainly more fun.
    hahaha. just as capable? you obviously dont ride any real trails where you need some technical ability. please show me a video of someone riding a 36er on any legit trail. you just cant do some of the things you can on a 26 wheel. ill paypal you 1000 bucks if you show me a video of someone on a 36er riding like this.
    If Only Every Mountain Biking Video Was Shot Like This - Afrojacks.flv - YouTube
    not even the jumping part, just the turns and stuff. and that isnt even a super technical trail at all. if there were roots/rocks/narrow bridges/log climbs/steep hills or anything like that a 36er would fail. if you honestly think thay are more capable, then you need to use your brain. i have yet to see someone do anything impressive on a 36er, and i have watched quite a few videos

  73. #73
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    You're right, you win. No way could I ever ride a bike on a bermed turn, that is just far too difficult

    You're very presumptuous, but nobody ever wins an argument against your type.

    If I ever slow down enough to take some video I'll send you my address for the promised cash. And if you lived anywhere near me I'd offer you a ride any time and you could take if on the local jumps and techy trails. Or maybe you can meet me at the 18hr race this weekend in VA and take it for a few laps?

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    You're right, you win. No way could I ever ride a bike on a bermed turn, that is just far too difficult

    You're very presumptuous, but nobody ever wins an argument against your type.

    If I ever slow down enough to take some video I'll send you my address for the promised cash. And if you lived anywhere near me I'd offer you a ride any time and you could take if on the local jumps and techy trails. Or maybe you can meet me at the 18hr race this weekend in VA and take it for a few laps?
    you know as well as i do there is no way you ride like that on a 36er. they are taking those turns extremely fast. 36ers dont have that kind of maneuverability. and i would bet the "jumps" you speak of are pretty small. and even if you could do all that on a 36er you have no shot at doing this

    Chris Akrigg A Hill in Spain MTB Downhill720p H 264 AAC - YouTube

    and no you cant win, but only because i am right, 36ers are not as technically capable as a 26". smaller wheels have better performance, end of story. i can break down the physics for you if you want. there is a reason why bmx racers use 20" wheels. the only reason to go up in size is to increase the ability to roll over stuff, which is needed for mtb. but 36" is way overkill. 26 is a very good compromise between performance and handling bumps and such, 29 is just a tad overkill too imo, but it has its place, unlike 36ers. it rolls over stuff a little better and doesnt make the handling that much worse.

    BOTTOM LINE:
    in engineering, it is always a balance between certain characteristics. for example, a big engine in a car makes lots of power, but it is heavy, expensive, and guzzles gas. sometimes you need a big engine, and sometimes it is a hinderance. there is an optimal balance for different situations. and in mountain biking, 36" is way bigger than optimal. it reduces the handling and maneuverability a lot and the increased ability to roll over stuff isnt enough to make up for that. maybe if your 8 foot tall it would make sense though, but most people cant throw around a 36" bike.
    Last edited by cooptroop123; 11-02-2011 at 10:16 AM.

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    let me put it this way, if a pro mountain biker with alot of skill was to ride the same course on a 26 and a 36, the 26 would win every time

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    Unless you know me, you have no idea how or what I ride.
    I don't ride ANY bike like that, as I don't ride downhill/freeride/all mountain.
    On an XC course I can and do ride my 36er hard, for me

    You really should ride one, then at least you can say from experience how terrible they are.
    Next time I'm in FL I'll hit you up and we can go to Santos for a ride, how about that?
    BTW, unless you're Chris Akrigg you don't have a shot at that either

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooptroop123 View Post
    let me put it this way, if a pro mountain biker with alot of skill was to ride the same course on a 26 and a 36, the 26 would win every time
    Yes, of course. No argument there. But you speak in extremes - saying he would be quicker on a 26er is different than saying he'd be going 5mph on a 36er. I am quicker on my 36er on flatter terrain but quicker on my 29er on anything with climbs or large drops and I tend to slow down for those with a rigid fork.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooptroop123 View Post
    hahaha. just as capable? you obviously dont ride any real trails where you need some technical ability. please show me a video of someone riding a 36er on any legit trail. you just cant do some of the things you can on a 26 wheel. ill paypal you 1000 bucks if you show me a video of someone on a 36er riding like this.
    If Only Every Mountain Biking Video Was Shot Like This - Afrojacks.flv - YouTube
    not even the jumping part, just the turns and stuff. and that isnt even a super technical trail at all. if there were roots/rocks/narrow bridges/log climbs/steep hills or anything like that a 36er would fail. if you honestly think thay are more capable, then you need to use your brain. i have yet to see someone do anything impressive on a 36er, and i have watched quite a few videos
    Must be to cold to be out side at Occupy......whereever?! Also alot of Manufacture
    are starting to drop 2-6 in favor of 2-9 wheels so your 26ers maybe obsoleted soooon!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooptroop123 View Post
    i have yet to see someone do anything impressive on a 36er, and i have watched quite a few videos
    please link the 36er videos you're mentioning...
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  80. #80
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    Yeah..

    Dude, a pro enduro rider would crush the guy on the mountain bike! We should all be riding motorcycles!

    Better yet, we could drive rally cars! Those are really fast!

    No, wait, I've got it! Jet fighters that turn into robots!

    Fast isn't the same as fun, duh.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by cooptroop123 View Post
    let me put it this way, if a pro mountain biker with alot of skill was to ride the same course on a 26 and a 36, the 26 would win every time

  81. #81
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    Yeah, but watching videos is even MORE fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    Must be to cold to be out side at Occupy......whereever?! Also alot of Manufacture
    are starting to drop 2-6 in favor of 2-9 wheels so your 26ers maybe obsoleted soooon!!!
    jesus learn how to speak english.... and no 26 will never be obsolete. both sizes will be around for a long time. pretty much every manufacturer makes 26" bikes still, thay are just coming out with 29ers also.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooptroop123 View Post
    jesus learn how to speak english.... and no 26 will never be obsolete. both sizes will be around for a long time. pretty much every manufacturer makes 26" bikes still, thay are just coming out with 29ers also.

    A.......wrong again sunshine I was just at Interbike and 2-6's are obsoleteing FAST
    SO SO sorry for you.......soon it will be hard to find good tires for 2-6's similar
    To finding 15" wheels and tires for pickups......O and I speak gooder everyday
    After taking ETS (English as a third language).......Sounds like you are suffering from
    ERD envy!!!



    Cheers
    Last edited by todwil; 11-02-2011 at 05:40 PM.
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    A.......wrong again sunshine I was just at Interbike and 2-6's are obsoleteing FAST
    SO SO sorry for you.......soon it will be hard to find good tires for 2-6's similar
    To finding 15" wheels and tires for pickups......O and I speak gooder everyday
    After taking ETS (English as a third language).......Sounds like you are suffering from
    ERD envy!!!



    Cheers
    ahh im sorry (seriously) i didnt realize english wasnt your first language, didnt mean to offend you. and we'll see about the 26" thing. i really dont think they will ever be obsolete but i dont mind 29ers too much, i have a 29er also but i much prefer 26

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbeardsl View Post
    Nothing yet but rest assured we'll update here with any new info.
    Waiting on pricing from manufacturer.
    Still not a definite go until we know what they're going to cost.
    Hoping for new info next week.

    Glad to hear things are moving forward.
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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    Ok, some news about the article I wrote for the french mountain bike magazine, VeloVert.
    Even if I interviewed most of you guys (and you might have received my freshly scanned feature this afternoon) I though I could post a link to the page I created for the 36ers :
    36ers
    Feel free to send me any new pics about 36ers bikes (Matt ?) that you want me to include in this blog/work-in-progress !
    I wish I can put all of the existing 36ers there, so the eye candy can be complete !
    cheers
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    Just a bump to let everyone know this is still in progress. Finalizing tread design and then working on pricing and logistics to bring to the (small) masses. Will update here with more detaisl as they are available.

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    Right arm, glad to hear its coming together I have a pair of rims waiting and I'll need spares let us know!!!!
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    I'm sorry what part of "BIGLY" didn't you understand?

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    Good to hear that the project is still going.
    Was worried the floods would put off the project.

    Would it be to hopeful to have some before Feb?
    Doing the solo at 24h in the old pueblo, and this new tire would be so nice!
    One pedal goes down
    the other goes up
    bike goes forward
    smile

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keener View Post
    Good to hear that the project is still going.
    Was worried the floods would put off the project.

    Would it be to hopeful to have some before Feb?
    Doing the solo at 24h in the old pueblo, and this new tire would be so nice!
    I'm not sure where the plant is exactly, but seems that the floods haven't had an impact at all. Regular mail has worked fine for small packages. A large container of tires may be another issue though.

    No harm in crossing your fingers, and I am in the same boat for some winter races and general riding. I have crashed more in the last 2 weeks than I have in the last 4 months all due to front tire wash outs in heavy leaf cover etc. Worst thing is its making me nervous now on every corner unless its bermed so its not as enjoyable as it was a few weeks ago. Bad day on a bike is still a great day though.

    In all seriousness we don't have a schedule yet. Hope to have more info by the end of the week or into next. With such a small batch we aren't high on the priority list so they'll fit us in when they can. They seem to be just as eager as we are to get this done though which is promising but I think Feb would be pushing the limits. Especially as we'd need to ship in the first week to get them to you in time for the race.

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    So are you thinking closer to March April time frame??
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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    I'm sorry what part of "BIGLY" didn't you understand?

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    I would say mid-summer

    You guys have a hilariously optimistic take on how the bike industry works!

    I will be happy if we have them *anytime* in 2012. We have to go through prototyping, shipping things back and forth, testing, etc. It's not like we can just snap our fingers and have 500 tires made.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    So are you thinking closer to March April time frame??

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    You guys have a hilariously optimistic take on how the bike industry works!

    I will be happy if we have them *anytime* in 2012. We have to go through prototyping, shipping things back and forth, testing, etc. It's not like we can just snap our fingers and have 500 tires made.

    -Walt
    O I think I have a little, 6 months from conception to fruitation is a reasonable time frame and I beleive this is what the folks you are dealing with told me also.

    Let me know if you need some (TESTED) I have a solid platform to test with at 302# I find the weak link quickly!!!!
    Last edited by todwil; 12-05-2011 at 06:56 AM.
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    Hah again!

    I bet they did tell you that it would be done in 6 months. And I have a great deal on a bridge for you...

    I've been through this process a few times with various products (headsets for 44mm/taper, various types of butted tubing, and also tires) and I can promise that it will take much longer than you think. I hope I'm wrong.

    I mean, it's been 2 months and we're still waiting on a _quote_ for the tire costs. These things move slowly.

    -Walt



    Quote Originally Posted by todwil View Post
    O I think I have a little, 6 months from conception to fruitation is a reasonable time frame and I beleive this is what the folks you are dealing with told me also.

    Let me know if you need some (TESTED) I have a solid platform to test with at 302# I find the weak link quickly!!!!

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    To do a first production run I'd figure $12-$15,000. Producers have minimums and there is the mold to construct. I've heard that most manufactures had a size limit of about 30 inches so that is going to limit your choices. But Coker sells them so someone obviously has bigger equipment.

    I wouldn't worry to much about selling them for really cheap. Tires don't get really cheap until you order tons of them, plus cheap = cheap construction. If you are going to go through all the trouble why not make a quality product. 120tpi fat tires go at $120 to $130 each. I think that is a more reasonable price range for a specialty tire if you want any room for a little profit for your efforts and up front outlay of capitol.

  96. #96
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    Nimbus is all that...

    Quote Originally Posted by davidfrench View Post
    Nimbus Nightrider are at 82$ (plus tax, plus shipping I guess), so...

    ...Harry potter rides, the Nimbus 2000 to be specific. Not sure what he pays but they rule.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    ...Harry potter rides, the Nimbus 2000 to be specific. Not sure what he pays but they rule.
    Not anymore, after the whomping willow busted it up, he's riding a Firebolt these days...

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    Back to topic: I would also buy 2 tires. (On my nimbus I had to sew the bead to rubber after inaccurate mounting.) On my bike I have possibility to install 36x3.5"-like tires. The major visible difference of new tires will be in weight? Maybe make it 2.5" or 3.0" wide? For me even schwalbe_smart_sam -like tread is suitable.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by sni256andr View Post
    Back to topic: I would also buy 2 tires. (On my nimbus I had to sew the bead to rubber after inaccurate mounting.) On my bike I have possibility to install 36x3.5"-like tires. The major visible difference of new tires will be in weight? Maybe make it 2.5" or 3.0" wide? For me even schwalbe_smart_sam -like tread is suitable.
    The tread and weight will both be much improved.

    Size will be 2.25" as these tires on the current rim will still come to ~2.5". Most current frames are not equipped to take a 2.5"-3.0" tire on a 42mm rim. A tire that wide would also be quite a bit heavier.

    Tread resembles something between a Racing Ralph and a Nevegal in terms of both tread and knob height. Personally, I am very excited about it after a slew of crashes this winter due to front tire wash outs. We should see the first prototype tire in ~2 months at which point we will have more details on weight and performance. As Walt mentioned above, this is a slow process but it is also important to get it right instead of rushing something inferior to market.

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    Ok, I understand. It turned out that my titanium frameset is very custom and I am looking for (virtually) any big tire.
    In short time I'll try post description of my bike. Now here is the photo which shows the idea:

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