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  1. #1
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    Niner's impending Frustration??

    So, let's say the 27.5 wheel takes over most of the market as industry analyst's are predicting. what will "niner" do? will they succumb to the market trend to stay in buisiness? If so will they change the company name? Maybe to niner + (plus) or maybe more like, niner - (minus) ? Or what
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  2. #2
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    I think the chances of 26" going away are higher than 29" do so. But I suspect all 3 will be around for a good while yet, so long as customers support them and companies believe in them. I think companies that just dabble in one size or another might drop a size, though. Committed companies like niner that build well-designed bikes around a wheelsize they believe in will be fine I think.

  3. #3
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    Niner's impending Frustration??

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    I think the chances of 26" going away are higher than 29" do so. But I suspect all 3 will be around for a good while yet, so long as customers support them and companies believe in them. I think companies that just dabble in one size or another might drop a size, though. Committed companies like niner that build well-designed bikes around a wheelsize they believe in will be fine I think.
    +1. 26" was standard for too long & 29" too good and popular to lose much market in the near term. All 3 have a viable function, but the most likely to fade, I agree, long term is 26".

    Niner can expand production, or not, to other wheel sizes, and will not get hurt.


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    How long has Niner been in business? I just read the Sea Otter MTBR blog entry that Niner announced components designed to assist smaller people to fit 29ers. Why did it take this long? It's obviously a response to 650b. I'm sure they are starting to really understand that the market does not believe 29ers are for everyone, the same realization Specialized must be having right now. If you read the posts about the Giant prototype 650bs it seems obvious 26" is dead. The largest bike company in the world shows prototype 650b bikes and in the next breath says they will only support two wheel sizes. Hello is anyone listening?

  5. #5
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    First, they should do something about their frames breaking...

    I don't know if 650b will cause them to go out of business, maybe lose business to smaller riders and All-mountain / Enduro riders.

    Yes the fact that they react now with components to fit smaller riders is telling.
    The 26 v. 29 Stumpjumper EVO test in MBA was also telling. The Big S cannot like the fact they choose the 26" wheeled bike with the way they have pushed 29ers for everything.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    The 26 v. 29 Stumpjumper EVO test in MBA was also telling. The Big S cannot like the fact they choose the 26" wheeled bike with the way they have pushed 29ers for everything.
    I'm not sure if anyone really cares what MBA has to say . . .

  7. #7
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    None of them are going away. I will happily bet large amounts of money that in 10 years you'll still be able to buy nice mountain bikes with any of the "big 3" wheel sizes.

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  8. #8
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    Ditto.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    None of them are going away. I will happily bet large amounts of money that in 10 years you'll still be able to buy nice mountain bikes with any of the "big 3" wheel sizes.

    -Walt

  9. #9
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    I don't think Niner has anything to worry about.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    None of them are going away. I will happily bet large amounts of money that in 10 years you'll still be able to buy nice mountain bikes with any of the "big 3" wheel sizes.

    -Walt
    Agreed. I'm not a fan of Niner's geometry, though. IMO, their top tubes are too long relative to seat tube length and head angles are too steep for a the amount of travel.
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  11. #11
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    Niner does stand to loose market share, when you think about it. That should get them looking ahead.

    A B-Niner is a great platform. That is my main ride currently.

    There is no reason just 'cause they are Niner Bikes means they can't touch other wheels.

    The CVA suspension is very good and I'd like to see it on a 650b.

  12. #12
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    Niner's impending Frustration??

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHORN LEW View Post
    So, let's say the 27.5 wheel takes over most of the market as industry analyst's are predicting.
    Which industry analysts are predicting this? Got a link?

    I have read many comments about how the industry has jumped in with both feet on 650b (unlike the slow roll of 29ers), but I don't think I have seen a single prediction that 650b will take over most of the market.

    Fwiw, I think the only wheel size that will disappear any time soon might be 26" and even that seems unlikely.

  13. #13
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    I'm not sure who, if anyone, stands to lose market share but I am guessing Niner will be a very, very healthy company in the long term selling 29" wheel bikes. Not everyone needs to make everything and they have been very successful focusing their attention on the bigger wheels.

    Make a few calls to Taiwan and start 27.5er Bikes!

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  14. #14
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    Yeah, don't forecast the demise of 29ers anytime soon. Pretty sure Niner is sitting in a pretty good position even if 29ers lose market share. 26ers seem to be taking the biggest hits.

  15. #15
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    Niner will go away because they are losing their market placement, their bikes break a lot and their bike designs are not great.

    650b/275 will hurt them for sure but the majority of companies go away in the bike industry due to their own hubris. If you want a Niner, you'll buy a Niner. If you want a 29r, you probably won't.

    All three wheel sizes are here to stay but look for a lot of models of 29r to go away, along with 26. We already have a dozen-ish wheel sizes, from 8" up to 36r and one more won't make a big difference. We've always heard the 'one more standard' from the bike industry but those companies cave and the bike shops usually go out of business. Anybody have a Schwinn shop in their neighborhood anymore?

    The Enduro29 shows that Niner just doesn't have the engineering chops to create desirable bikes across ALL disciplines, which is what they need to survive. If you look around, you'll see they are advertising for a bike designer. I wonder why?

    As we all realize, some people love or hate 29 and some will move to 650. A lot of people love 26 and some will move to 650. 26 makes sense as the only choice in less places now that ever before. 29r still makes a lot of sense but less people will go there if they can baby-step out of 26 into 650.

    And the whole way, industry late-adopters will say it's no good (until they make one) and bike shops will complain about another standard (as they lose sales).

    Money is made in the changes and the trends. If you don't understand that in retail, you either run a bike shop or you will soon disappear...

    I welcome our new 650/275 overlords! Take me to your dealer!

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  16. #16
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    Niner Lite. Less filling, rides great. I like it, doubt it will happen. As long as there are 29" wheels there will be Niner.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbildr View Post
    Niner will go away because they are losing their market placement, their bikes break a lot and their bike designs are not great.

    650b/275 will hurt them for sure but the majority of companies go away in the bike industry due to their own hubris. If you want a Niner, you'll buy a Niner. If you want a 29r, you probably won't.

    All three wheel sizes are here to stay but look for a lot of models of 29r to go away, along with 26. We already have a dozen-ish wheel sizes, from 8" up to 36r and one more won't make a big difference. We've always heard the 'one more standard' from the bike industry but those companies cave and the bike shops usually go out of business. Anybody have a Schwinn shop in their neighborhood anymore?

    The Enduro29 shows that Niner just doesn't have the engineering chops to create desirable bikes across ALL disciplines, which is what they need to survive. If you look around, you'll see they are advertising for a bike designer. I wonder why?

    As we all realize, some people love or hate 29 and some will move to 650. A lot of people love 26 and some will move to 650. 26 makes sense as the only choice in less places now that ever before. 29r still makes a lot of sense but less people will go there if they can baby-step out of 26 into 650.

    And the whole way, industry late-adopters will say it's no good (until they make one) and bike shops will complain about another standard (as they lose sales).

    Money is made in the changes and the trends. If you don't understand that in retail, you either run a bike shop or you will soon disappear...

    I welcome our new 650/275 overlords! Take me to your dealer!

    mk
    +1 Everyone will find a bike that meets their needs. I love 650B
    I wonder if Chris Sugai views on 29er world domination has changed?

    Feb 2008 issue of Mountain Bike Action: What are your thoughts about the future of 29-inch, 26-inch and the new 650B wheel sizes?

    Chris Sugai: Twenty-nine -inch wheels will supplant 26-inch wheel bikes by 2017. In ten years, all mountain bikes sold from $1000 to $1500 and above will have 29-inch wheels. There will be holdouts, of course, and 26-inch wheel bikes will be sold at places like Costco and K-Mart, but the 29er will take the place of the 26-inch bike as far as the average mountain bike goes.
    Last edited by mtnbiker4life; 04-21-2013 at 09:36 AM.

  18. #18
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    They are going to feel it a bit I think. They won't go out of business, but they will take a hit.

    I have a RIP-9, and just converted my 26" Pivot Firebird to 650B. I can't think of a single reason now to ride the RIP-9 instead of the Firebird. And I won't be riding my other 26" bike or converting my Firebird back to 26".

    I have been flip-flopping between 26" and 29" bikes. No more, I am done with both.

  19. #19
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    Yeti just released an interesting solution to the small rider problem.

    They released the new ARC Carbon at Sea Otter. It is a lightweight 29er XC racer...but the XS and Small sizes are built for 650b. THAT is how you use all wheel sizes to the best result.
    Last edited by KevinGT; 04-20-2013 at 02:11 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    I wonder if Chris Sugai views on 29er world domination has changed?
    The irony is that he being of short stature would probably fit better on a 650b bike. Given his past statements, he would be eating a king-sized portion of crow.

  21. #21
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    Im of the same opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by andy f View Post
    Agreed. I'm not a fan of Niner's geometry, though. IMO, their top tubes are too long relative to seat tube length and head angles are too steep for a the amount of travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c_rex View Post
    Niner Lite. Less filling, rides great. I like it, doubt it will happen. As long as there are 29" wheels there will be Niner.
    I agree. Plus I'm not exactly seeing 650b taking over bike shops yet either in any type of way. Right now 29er sales are hot (at least my area) and bike shops will carry models that move. Niner is a very strong brand with great service.

  23. #23
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    Another thing you are seeing is the consumer now being willing to admit that his 29er may not be the great bike he once thought it was. Human nature makes us want to convince ourselves we made good decisions. So when you buy a new bike, you convince yourself that it's a great bike. Look on the message boards and there are hundreds of pages of posts declaring 29ers the greatest thing to happen to cycling since cycling was invented.

    But, over time, when the consumer starts thinking about a new bike, the old bike loses some of it's appeal. Human nature, again, stops trying to convince itself that it made a good decision because it's time to make another decision. With the 29er buying frenzy that happened 3ish years ago, those riders are now looking at new bikes.

    The flaws in 29ers (ESPECIALLY with shorter riders) that the consumer refused to acknowledge are now being openly discussed as those riders come back to 26" or consider 650b. I think it's just a matter of the timing of the sales cycle.

  24. #24
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    Like KevinGT says, using different wheels size within a certain model range is a good idea and will certainly work. For an XS model you use 26" wheels, for small and medium 27.5" and for the L and XL 29" wheels. This will give the best geometry for all sizes and prevents bikes from looking ridiculous : nothing looks more ridiculous than a 22" trailbike with 26" wheels, it's like a giant BMX with suspension.

    Of course this will not work for all models, but for XC and trail bikes it could work.

  25. #25
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    There are not droves of people abandoning their 29ers to go back to 26. That's hilarious. Go look on Craigslist or your local consignment shop and see what 26" parts and bikes go for. Or don't, I can just tell you: they go for practically free because nobody wants them.

    Or read BRAIN (as of last year, 29ers were HALF of *all* mountain bike sales) if you want numbers.

    Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of 650b since the "beginning" and I build them all the time. I just don't see any evidence that *any* wheel size is going to "dominate" or "win". In fact, I really don't understand the debate - it seems like debating what the right saddle height is, or something. Everyone is different, let people ride what they want, and don't be a jerk who bores everyone by talking non-stop about how some wheelsize is perfect.

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  26. #26
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    As someone who absolutely loves 26inch bikes (XC, DH, AM what ever), it pains me greatly to say that as high end bikes they will disappear. Primarily because I think supporting three different wheel sizes is a cost that industry isn't prepared to meet.

    Honestly I don't think there is the demand for them either. Anybody tried selling used high end 26inch carbon hardtail recently?
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  27. #27
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    I have always though Niner might be shooting themselves in the foot in the long term by naming the company after a wheel size. Yes, it works great while 29ers are new and hot and you get loads of cred for being early to the party. But now everyone is making/selling them, so it's not unique, and as time goes by they get less and less "cred" for the name. Meanwhile, it is going to be really hard to market anything BUT a 29er, even if they decide that a 27.5 (or some other new wheel size) makes sense for a given purpose.

    That said, if they really just want to focus on bikes best served with 29" wheels and remain a bit more "niche", that's fine. But they had better be making some of the BEST 29ers out there.
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  28. #28
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    I think all three are here for a whlie. The reality is that some smaller riders can't rock the 29ers comfortably.....

    Plenty of my friends that ride primarily east coast single track still prefer 26" to the 29ers. They have all tried some at demo days etc. and find them to be a little too tippy in stop and go tight rocky, rooty singletrack. Once you do stop those big wheels from rolling, for many, you could actually be at a disadvantage.

    We are waiting for a 650b wheelset to come in for my wife's rush, she's only 5' 5" and has shorter legs as far as proportions go so finding a frame for her in 29" would be tough. For her to not feel tippy and have proper stand over etc. is tough. Plus she would probably run her seat lower than she should so she doesn't feel like she is sitting on a monster truck....so we'll stick with her Rush, add 650b's and see how things go....

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinGT View Post
    Another thing you are seeing is the consumer now being willing to admit that his 29er may not be the great bike he once thought it was. Human nature makes us want to convince ourselves we made good decisions. So when you buy a new bike, you convince yourself that it's a great bike. Look on the message boards and there are hundreds of pages of posts declaring 29ers the greatest thing to happen to cycling since cycling was invented.

    But, over time, when the consumer starts thinking about a new bike, the old bike loses some of it's appeal. Human nature, again, stops trying to convince itself that it made a good decision because it's time to make another decision. With the 29er buying frenzy that happened 3ish years ago, those riders are now looking at new bikes.

    The flaws in 29ers (ESPECIALLY with shorter riders) that the consumer refused to acknowledge are now being openly discussed as those riders come back to 26" or consider 650b. I think it's just a matter of the timing of the sales cycle.
    This is very well stated!

    I have been guilty of this in the past. The first time I rode the old design RIP-9 I thought it was the bees knees. Then I came out of my trance and realized what a flexy noodle it was.

    We always like to feel like we are on the cusp of something new and exciting.

    For me, I am a bit tired of trying to figure out what I like, and just want to settle on something. I had a Trance, then RIP, then Motolite, then Behemoth, then Endorphin. Every time I went to one wheel size, I missed the other. That is why I did 4 rides with a rest day in between, on the same rocky test loop. Knolly Endorphin, RIP-9, Pivot Firebird 26", and Pivot Firebird 650B.

    After the Firebird ride, my legs felt the best, and I decided to keep it irregardless of wheel size. Then the next ride on it with the 650B wheels totally sealed the deal. Now not only did I have the same fresh legs as the last ride, but the feel of the bike was exactly what I had been looking for, and I no longer had that feeling of "Wish I was on the 26er here.", or "Wish I was on the 29er there."....That feeling was gone. As are my 26 and 29 inch bikes soon to be.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbildr View Post
    Niner will go away because they are losing their market placement, their bikes break a lot and their bike designs are not great.

    650b/275 will hurt them for sure but the majority of companies go away in the bike industry due to their own hubris. If you want a Niner, you'll buy a Niner. If you want a 29r, you probably won't.

    All three wheel sizes are here to stay but look for a lot of models of 29r to go away, along with 26. We already have a dozen-ish wheel sizes, from 8" up to 36r and one more won't make a big difference. We've always heard the 'one more standard' from the bike industry but those companies cave and the bike shops usually go out of business. Anybody have a Schwinn shop in their neighborhood anymore?

    The Enduro29 shows that Niner just doesn't have the engineering chops to create desirable bikes across ALL disciplines, which is what they need to survive. If you look around, you'll see they are advertising for a bike designer. I wonder why?

    As we all realize, some people love or hate 29 and some will move to 650. A lot of people love 26 and some will move to 650. 26 makes sense as the only choice in less places now that ever before. 29r still makes a lot of sense but less people will go there if they can baby-step out of 26 into 650.

    And the whole way, industry late-adopters will say it's no good (until they make one) and bike shops will complain about another standard (as they lose sales).

    Money is made in the changes and the trends. If you don't understand that in retail, you either run a bike shop or you will soon disappear...

    I welcome our new 650/275 overlords! Take me to your dealer!

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  31. #31
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    Was the post too random?

    Chipps just posted 'the death of 26' over at SingleTrack mag. Go read it. He's saying there will be no new 26" bikes. Everyone is working on new 275/650 bikes. From DH to hardtails, you'll see 650 take over quite a bit of market share. Like, most of it.

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    trailbildr we are at the denial stage in our resistance to change experience.

  33. #33
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    Here's my uneducated, unsupported, and data-less prediction:

    Current marketshare for high end bikes is about this:

    26: 40%
    650b: 5%
    29er: 65%

    I don't see 26" losing much share. I think most of 650b's gain in share will come from 29er share. So the future will look like this:

    26: 30%
    650b: 40%
    29er: 30%

    (again, I just guessed at the numbers with no basis. Feel free to argue passionately!)

    I will add these PROVEN numbers:

    Share of goofiness by wheel size:

    26: 10% (big riders on small wheels)
    650b: 10% (huge riders on medium wheels)
    29er: 80% (anyone but huge riders on wagon wheels)

    (DISCLAIMER: The above 4 lines are in jest...relax)

  34. #34
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    You forgot...

    You forgot 36ers: Everyone but Yao Ming.



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  35. #35
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    Got it. Carry on...

    I spent a lot of time with the Jamis guys yesterday. They have a bunch of new 650 models coming out. Carbon 160mm, hard tails, etc...

    mk
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    New products mean old products at great prices. I'm excited to buy another 26" in the next couple years, I'll have a killer ride for half the price of a few years ago...sweet!

    I find the whole wheel-size difference a bit overblown, with the exception of the huge differences in flex for the same model wheels/forks across 26/650b/29. Kinda dumb to require carbon 29" wheels to get similar stiffness to 26" flows...IMO of course.

  37. #37
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    In my area NO bike shops have a 650b bike in stock. The 26s they have are low spec compared to the 29ers. I had a shop owner tell me "no one is making high-end 26ers anymore."
    germs, needles, milk, death, snakes, mushrooms, heights, crowds, elevators

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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    The market will drive the business...but as the business expands so to will additional newbe's in the market... expanding in all wheel sizes I would add. I think everybody wants to try something new, do you?....... niner was a niche' player at one point, niner is no longer a niche'...those boys LISTEN to the marketplace (us) and react...they continue to improve, refine, move quickly and repeat yes, they need some race wins under their belt....if their erp system can keep them in product they'll be fine (growing pains...) Hey niner, don't drink ur own kool aide and you'll be fine...

    Stay Vertical Out There.... Shut up legs....
    Last edited by Espo61; 07-25-2013 at 06:34 AM.

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    ummmmm that adds up to 110?..... ummmm, ummmmmidk is it me?

  40. #40
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    Niner's impending Frustration??

    Quote Originally Posted by gthcarolina View Post
    I had a shop owner tell me "no one is making high-end 26ers anymore."
    LOL. Was it a Specialized dealer?

    As for Niner, launching an affiliated brand is not hard, if they feel like it.

  41. #41
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    I think 650 is great, I probably won't ride one unless for some reason I feel the need for a DH-only bike sometime in the future, but I think it's a great compromise. On the other hand, when looking at 26 vs 29, we are just starting to see this season 29ers show up that are slack, have lower BBs, have 5-6" of good travel, decent pedaling ability, chainstays from 16.9 to 17.2, and multiple choices and materials at that. Basically we are getting the 29ers that supposedly could not be built or were going to take a long time to get sorted out. They are here finally, Tallboy LTcs, Intense, Specialized, Kona, Giant, the list is fairly numerous. The reason that Niner would fall away would be because they haven't really kept up with the rest of the market offerings. They do have the the WFO, but now with the quality options from other manufacturers that fix all the compromises of that bike, it's not going to be a big seller. There are at least a dozen bikes that are lighter with similar travel that I'd rather be on. Then there's the ultra-long chainstay XC race and trail bikes they have. They are ok, but not going to stand out much against the competition. That's why niner might have problems. Carbon frames are cool, but everyone is doing them, so nothing really there. Geometry wise niner seems to be falling off, so we'll see.

    I agree with the guys that say 26 will wither and die except for niche markets. 29ers aren't going anywhere, but it I can't say anything in the Niner line really excites me. As an example, specialized, kona and other's are doing fat-bikes (which can take 29er rims and regular 29er tires for summer btw ). I don't know if fat-bikes count as "26ers", but they definitely aren't regular 26" wheeled bikes. These are new markets that are opening up. Niner needs to innovate and push their technology. What about a Krampus type 29er? What about a FS one? They do not have to necessarily make this or a fat-bike or anything specific, but they need to be out on the forefront doing something different or offering something that isn't outdated by everything else currently available.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    LOL. Was it a Specialized dealer?

    As for Niner, launching an affiliated brand is not hard, if they feel like it.
    If Niner launched an affiliated brand, I would lose a lot of respect for them, and they would lose the one thing they have going for them. They chose 29ers, and they swear by them as the only wheel size worth making. That's their thing. If they start making another wheel size under a different name, will people believe in the company? I wouldn't.

  43. #43
    mhr
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    I can't see how 26ers would possibly remain after a few years of 27.5ers hitting the market consistently. I won't give up my 21" frame 29er for a smaller wheel bike and it's just a mid level rockhopper. I'm 6'-1" though and I wanted something that fit me better. I have a 19" frame 26er rockhopper as a spare that others ride or I ride if my 29er is down and I don't have time to mess with it. It's a massive difference in geometry for me. But all those people who can't fit 29ers will, most likely, fit a 27.5er just fine because most of the geometry should be right in line with the current 26ers. With that in mind, why would anyone settle for 26 if you can gain that little extra edge of a little bit bigger wheel without much else changing. Just seems logical that 27.5 will dominate and kill off 26.

  44. #44
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    A lot of people seem to think that wheelsize is entirely dependent on the physical dimensions of the rider. It's not. It has more to do with riding style and trail than how tall somebody is. Sorry for going off-topic!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinGT View Post
    Another thing you are seeing is the consumer now being willing to admit that his 29er may not be the great bike he once thought it was. Human nature makes us want to convince ourselves we made good decisions. So when you buy a new bike, you convince yourself that it's a great bike. Look on the message boards and there are hundreds of pages of posts declaring 29ers the greatest thing to happen to cycling since cycling was invented.

    But, over time, when the consumer starts thinking about a new bike, the old bike loses some of it's appeal. Human nature, again, stops trying to convince itself that it made a good decision because it's time to make another decision. With the 29er buying frenzy that happened 3ish years ago, those riders are now looking at new bikes.

    The flaws in 29ers (ESPECIALLY with shorter riders) that the consumer refused to acknowledge are now being openly discussed as those riders come back to 26" or consider 650b. I think it's just a matter of the timing of the sales cycle.
    This!

    Having both 29" and 26" I do enjoy both. I do like the 29 for more open riding and rolling over stuff and the 26 is more fun, airy, and nimble....however I've come to realize that I would like something just a little smaller but not as small as 26. It's just that neither 26 or 29 feels ideal for me for riding trails so something in between seems best. This is why I like 650B even though I'm kinda interested in something just slightly taller than it, but not as tall as 29. I'm actually wondering if there's ever gonna be a 4th wheel size between 650B and 29 years down the line after we realize and decided that maybe we should tweak the diameter one more time.

    And for your last line is all: Nino Schurter who tried 29 and but decided to come back (in height) down to 650B. Apparently he's really happy with it lol.

  46. #46
    dwt
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    Niner's impending Frustration??

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    A lot of people seem to think that wheelsize is entirely dependent on the physical dimensions of the rider. It's not. It has more to do with riding style and trail than how tall somebody is. Sorry for going off-topic!
    Not so sure about that. Nino Schurter ditched 29" for 27.5" when he found that at his height and leg length he could not achieve his mega aggressive high saddle low bar position on the 29'er. When I look at my bikes, 26", 27.5", and 29" from the side, the saddle to bar height is progressively lower on each. On the 29'er, they are about even. I use a 1mm washer and no spacer underneath the stem (facing down) to achieve that. I'm 5'10" with 30" inseam. At my medium height, all wheels sizes fit great and ride just fine. But I'm
    a far cry from being an elite racer like Schurter do not need or like an aggressively high saddle & low bar.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  47. #47
    jrm
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    I love my Niner EMD but i dont think ill be throwing a leg over a 29" FS bike ever again.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I think 650 is great, I probably won't ride one unless for some reason I feel the need for a DH-only bike sometime in the future, but I think it's a great compromise. On the other hand, when looking at 26 vs 29, we are just starting to see this season 29ers show up that are slack, have lower BBs, have 5-6" of good travel, decent pedaling ability, chainstays from 16.9 to 17.2, and multiple choices and materials at that. Basically we are getting the 29ers that supposedly could not be built or were going to take a long time to get sorted out. They are here finally, Tallboy LTcs, Intense, Specialized, Kona, Giant, the list is fairly numerous. The reason that Niner would fall away would be because they haven't really kept up with the rest of the market offerings. They do have the the WFO, but now with the quality options from other manufacturers that fix all the compromises of that bike, it's not going to be a big seller. There are at least a dozen bikes that are lighter with similar travel that I'd rather be on. Then there's the ultra-long chainstay XC race and trail bikes they have. They are ok, but not going to stand out much against the competition. That's why niner might have problems. Carbon frames are cool, but everyone is doing them, so nothing really there. Geometry wise niner seems to be falling off, so we'll see.
    Not sure I agree with this, IMHO, you forgot to mention the RIP 9 RDO and the Jet 9 RDO, really cool bikes, XC to trail to all mountain. Plus the NIner designs are original, you have to admit this, in addition the CVA suspension is one of the best out there, some would say the best. Geometry is all relative to all of us, bottom line, what to do most of us informed customers do? If we are going to drop thousands we demo right? We go with what feels best in our interpretation of what we are looking for. For some it may be 70 hta and for others it may be 68 hta. Depends on what we are using the bike for and where we are riding it. Again, its all relative. Just my opinion...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Not sure I agree with this, IMHO, you forgot to mention the RIP 9 RDO and the Jet 9 RDO, really cool bikes, XC to trail to all mountain. Plus the NIner designs are original, you have to admit this, in addition the CVA suspension is one of the best out there, some would say the best. Geometry is all relative to all of us, bottom line, what to do most of us informed customers do? If we are going to drop thousands we demo right? We go with what feels best in our interpretation of what we are looking for. For some it may be 70 hta and for others it may be 68 hta. Depends on what we are using the bike for and where we are riding it. Again, its all relative. Just my opinion...
    No he did not forget them. He was listing bikes that meet certain criteria, one of which is shorter chainstays (17.2" or less). The Niners you mention (both with 17.9" CS) don't meet that.
    Last edited by kapusta; 07-28-2013 at 08:43 AM.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Not so sure about that. Nino Schurter ditched 29" for 27.5" when he found that at his height and leg length he could not achieve his mega aggressive high saddle low bar position on the 29'er. When I look at my bikes, 26", 27.5", and 29" from the side, the saddle to bar height is progressively lower on each. On the 29'er, they are about even. I use a 1mm washer and no spacer underneath the stem (facing down) to achieve that. I'm 5'10" with 30" inseam. At my medium height, all wheels sizes fit great and ride just fine. But I'm
    a far cry from being an elite racer like Schurter do not need or like an aggressively high saddle & low bar.
    Yeah, but he's a cross-country racer, so he's going with wheels as large as he fits. If he raced downhill, he'd be on 26". Sure, height can have an affect on preferred wheelsize, but it's not the biggest factor. I'm 6'2", so everybody says "you're a perfect candidate for a 29er". I've tried them, and I don't care for the feel. They don't fit my trails or riding style. There are plenty of 5'2" tall women racers on 29ers. Of course, they race cross-country.

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