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  1. #1
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    Niner's Chris Sugai on 650b/275

    Video about 1/4-1/3 of the way down.

    Products and People - Sea Otter 2013 - Pinkbike

    He likens 275 to a 'tweener' similar to cable discs (instead of full hydraulic), Girvin (GAH!) Flex Stems instead of front suspension, suspension posts to rear suspension...

    My $0.02? From a company that can't design bikes for everyone who might like one (Enduro29, Mr Sugai?), he seems awfully sure. Kool-Aid at its worst...

    Why can't it just be ok that many people have tried and like 275? Not a good sign for Niner.

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  2. #2
    it's the ride....
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    ..and I am selling my 29-er for 275. No worries.. he only loss one customer..
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  3. #3
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    I don't know who he is and I don't have a dog in this fight. But his comments, purely from a branding/messaging standpoint, are pure idiocy. Building your company around one wheel size trend and refusing to recognize any others is stupid. But to then insult the fastest growing trend by comparing it to a slew of low-end products is just daft.

    Whichever venture or equity group is funding his company needs to tell him to STFU.

  4. #4
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    I have a Niner and I really like the way it rides. I also just built up a Soma B Side and, although I've only ridden it once, it rode great. I have to say that Chris seems like a total ********, though. It makes me not want to buy anything from his company again.

  5. #5
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    Corporate Tunnel Vision at it's best!

    I hope they snap out of it, or at least eat a half a slice of humble pie and be the first people to produce a 29/27.5 5.5" enduro/all mtn bike with 16.75 chain stays.

  6. #6
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    Everything in life, including 650b wheels, is a compromise but those comparisons are ridiculous. That said, so far I'd say his prediction from several years ago that 29ers will dominate the mountain bike market has been *mostly* true. They're 50% of the total market as of last year, from basically zero in 2003 or 2004. So he's got a better track record than many at prognostication.

    If I had to guess, for the entire mountain bike market, stability will eventually come at something like 25/25/50 for 26/650b/29.

    Edit: That's for the US. If Asia gets very into mountain bikes, total game changer - 26 and to a lesser extent 650b will dominate that part of the world just based on demographics and average height, and realistically Asia is most of the world. But that might or might not happen.

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  7. #7
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    I don't know about the USA but here in BC 27.5 will dominate 26 and 29. Whistler may still hang on the 26. Just went to Steed and they sold 7 Santa Cruz Bronson in the last 2 weeks. I predict 26 for DJ/Trials/Street and anything really tech, 29 for XC and 27.5 everything else.

  8. #8
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    -edit- DH is the big mystery. Bikes that are adjustable and could run both 26 and 27.5 depending on the course???

  9. #9
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    Niner wasn't on my radar but now it is even less so. I will stay away from a company whose owner is so closed minded. You can't have progress or even great design ideas when you have tunnel vision. I wish him well however he will never see a cent from me. Too many better and open minded companies I'd rather give my hard earned money too.

  10. #10
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    I bet Yao Ming would ride a 29er!
    When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.

  11. #11
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    I think making only 29ers is a rather tidy marketing strategy. I've seen quite a few people assume Niner is a top 29er choice simply because that's all they do. The focus implies quality in a lot of minds. I would imagine they can sell more 29ers based on that impression than they could other wheel sizes, were they just another random company in an overly saturated market with broad offerings.

    But not to me...I've a 27.5er on order

  12. #12
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    I was amused. Chris Sugai is very open to share his thoughts and it gets him in trouble, due to people misinterpreting it. I like how pinkbike put his thoughts up against a Norco engineer in a 29 vs 26" earlier, which isn't a fair match-up when speaking of things in a technical manner.

    I think people just like drama and using the wheel size debate as one of their outlet. The whole debate is overblown, with people somehow investing interest in things as if such interest held value. There's not really much money to be made in the biking industry and it would be better if the bike industry would stop shooting themselves in the foot by making people indecisive about buying, with potential customers holding off purchases until they feel that they've properly researched things, as opposed to encouraging sales. Problem is, the lack of truly valuable sources of info that can truly help individual make decisions. You got plenty of opinions and fashionable schools of thought, backed by the "power of numbers" (AKA general consensus), but following such trends tends to get one to spend money on things not really suited to their personal needs.

  13. #13
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    Wouldn't mind if people just simply accepted straight cold hard facts. The basics are, big wheels offer undeniable benefits for mountain biking. There are downsides, but they're being argued and overblown, rather than being weighed against the benefits, seeing if the benefits outweigh the downsides. People are making a big deal about how 650b is only a "tiny bit bigger" than 26", rather than seeing the point about it being about minimizing those downsides from the bigger 29er wheels, and getting as much of the bigger wheel advantages as possible. The market perspective on 650b is that its offers the benefits of bigger wheels without any of the disadvantages, but people just aren't accepting it.

    There really isn't anything to weigh with 650b, other than what wheel size do you choose about the 3 being presented. It's basically what people have been demanding, bigger wheels without compromising the geo the have come to be accept as well-balanced from riding their 26". Hard to deny the results shown from bigger wheels, and 650b is already proving itself in races.

    I think it's just a psychological issue in people. People demand, yet find nothing that pleases them. They may have paid too much attention to the trends and found that they made regrettable buying decisions, and now are more likely to reconsider any major decisions in the future. Switching to a new wheel size seems to be a big investment to people, an investment in a more literal sense. People might have some sort of superiority complex, wanting what's good in comparison to the others, rather than what's good enough for them, and arguing to defend against any claims of inferiority (ex. to what wheel size they ride). People just are not very accepting.

    Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of the debating and I'm trying to offer a realistic perspective. There's just an excess of trendy perspectives, negativity, and non-serious people trying to stir up drama. It's like a perfect setup for some trolls to have a ball, due to the stupidity going on. Saying things, such as certain wheel sizes or old tech, are going to die should be taboo on these forums, as that just gets people riled up big time.

  14. #14
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    Mr. Sugai has put everything he has into the 'Niner' concept, so he absolutely cannot embrace 650b in any way whatsoever. Wether he truly is as completely close-minded about the new standard as he appears from the interview, you have to understand that he has everything to lose and nothing to gain by 650b, so his interests compel him to completely dismiss it.

  15. #15
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    I love Niner. Their parts work great on my 650b.

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  16. #16
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    Niner - once, the specialization meant something - a company that showcased their expertise on the big wheel, and the big wheel only, meant a lot in a market with few choices. The big bike companies were slow (a bit) to pick up the 29er and thats where Niner made its mark.

    Its thus idiocy for Sugai to foreclose the possibility of an eventual venture into the 650b, in the same way that many other companies foreclosed their venture into the 29er world years back, and are now eating crow for that. He of all people should recognize that a new trend has incredible potential. He just closed himself to a segment with great potential.
    Now he has to make it only on his overpriced stuff in a market with so much better-priced competition.

  17. #17
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    I couldn't disagree with Varaxis any more. Yes you can feel a undeniable benefit from a 26er to a 29ers, as well if 29ers were the norm and you went to a 26ers, the undeniable benefit is it feels different, which may feel better, until you come to the realization of having buyers remorse. I've spent time on all the wheel sizes, settled with a 27.5, believe that the size has all of the attributes of both sizes. I laugh at all of my 29er riding friends, when we ride I love watching them blow through tight corners trying to steer their big wheel beasts in tight and technical single track, all the while. I'm buzzing their rear wheels pushing them along on my converted SC Blur XCc. I have not seen one benefit of the 29er bikes, except maybe on fireroad studder bumps. What's the first thing we learn about making your bike faster and more responsive, reduce your rotational weight, pretty much throws that theory out with a 29ers. This post was about Niner' s Chris Sugai' s comments regarding the optimum wheel size, did anyone really think he would have said anything different?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I laugh at all of my 29er riding friends, when we ride I love watching them blow through tight corners trying to steer their big wheel beasts in tight and technical single track, all the while. I'm buzzing their rear wheels pushing them along on my converted SC Blur XCc.
    I'd be willing to bet that it's got much less to do with the size of wheels you and your friends ride and more to do with the fact that you're simply the better rider.

  19. #19
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    Chris does have a point. Adopting new/different technology may take some time, and if there is an "in-between", some folks go that route. 29ers make better bikes for some types of riding and some riders. It took me at least a year of trying 29ers to come around to the big change. I thought they steered slow. It took a long time for me to learn to handle the bike differently. Now I find they corner better and faster than a 26" bike. A 275 might have eased the transition to big wheels. So for those on a 26",whose style and trails would be best met by a 29er, going to a 275 first could make sense.

    What I don't agree with is that 29ers are best for all riding for all riders. Chris suggesting that the 275 could only be thought of as a transition to a 29er "across the board" is something I disagree with. A 275 may be the best wheel size for certains styles and trails - 29" hoops do have their weaknesses.

    For almost a year now I've been on a 29er, converted to a 275 out back and a 29er up front (a B-9er). Love it.

    BTW, Niner makes a great bike. I have a RIP and almost bought the new carbon RIP - but, since Santa Cruz's TBLTc has been out long enough to bring out potential bugs, and it has a bit more travel I went that route. I'd sure like to see them do a B-Niner, or even a straight 275. Niner is a good compancy and their suspension is great - hate to see it all wasted on one wheel size.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I laugh at all of my 29er riding friends, when we ride I love watching them blow through tight corners trying to steer their big wheel beasts in tight and technical single track, all the while.
    Exactly the reason , I'm going 27.5/650b, my 29er can corner for ____ in a hairpin. I've run out of angle and chopped more berms than I'd care to count. That never happened when I rode a 26"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I have not seen one benefit of the 29er bikes, except maybe on fireroad studder bumps.
    Fire roads and the ridiculous top end of 3x on big hoops is why I went 29 in the first place.

    Both have will their place for me 650b in the woods, 29er's big hoops out on the levees and for jogging the dogs. I doubt I'll ever have a 26" again, once 29 was affordable for me I got one. Not because it was cool, but because something never felt right when I rode a XL framed 26". Out in the woods there are times I feel the same but opposite about my 29er. Hopefully 27.5 does it for me, if not I'll just feel like I'm never riding the right bike..
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  21. #21
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    Has he been paying attention?

    And how is wheel size "technology"?

    He should be more worried about his frames breaking, and losing sales to superior 29ers, like Tallboys and Stumpjumpers.

  22. #22
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    Interesting couple of comments regarding my post. As far as me being the better rider, I am to some of my friends, others maybe not, my friend Rob, an ex pro rider, could probably ride a Wal-Mart bike and still put the hurt on us, but I see him struggle but he still makes it happen. Using the 29er to walk the dogs...that's awesome. Is 27.5 the ultimate end all wheel size? Who knows,maybe in the future, another wheel size or technology will arrive and deem everything we ever thought about any wheel size invalid. I know from my own experiences that 650b/ 27.5 is the wheel size choice for me but everyone is different and if people really spend time on all of the sizes, don't flame what you haven't tried. I get tired of the way people claim " 29ers are going to rule( or have ruled) in xc, how many of us race the glorified road courses that the pro xc racers race on? The courses I have raced on the last few years are not the type that would suit any wheel size, and that's a good thing in my opinion.

  23. #23
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    It seems that Mr Sugai has missed what we all concede: there is no right answer to wheel size. We wouldn't tell a four year old about the benefits of 24" wheels and try to get her to ride it. Why would we assume that anyone will like or not like a certain wheel size?

    The iterative process that many of us old guys have gone through and ended up happy with 650b/275 (for now) has value. It stings to hear somebody say otherwise. AND it's so shortsighted to ignore something that has caught fire so fast.

    I have to say it's REALLY great to have such attention being paid to the style of riding I do. I felt that the 29r movement had nothing for me. I tried. I REALLY wanted to be turned on by 29. I rode so many 1st gen bikes at demos and Interbike when they first started popping and none of them worked for me. I rode some 2nd and 3rd gen product and still felt something was off. Now that 650b/275 has provided options (I don't have Pacenti or Pacenti tires to choose from), Spec'd drops the Enduro, likely the first 29r bike that I would have happily ridden. I'm still planning on checking one out...

    Mr Sugai: fly us all out to Fort Collins in July and we'll help you start a new company, Fiver. We'll help you get some dialed product together and we won't tell anyone. Professional criticism is what you'll see here and I hope you don't take it personally...

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  24. #24
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    I, for one, respect his comments. He has built a successful business around a very specific market (I'd call it a niche, but 29ers are far too mainstream now). Why would anyone expect him to do anything other than champion his brand? It's counter-intuitive.

    Get over it and go ride your 650b if that's what you're into.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Why would anyone expect him to do anything other than champion his brand? It's counter-intuitive.


    That's exactly what I was thinking. Agree or disagree, its not like it matter to any individual, since we can fortunately ride whatever the h3ll we want...

  26. #26
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    Wheel size is just different flavors of the same Kool-Aid, unfortunately Niner only has one flavor to sell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    ... your idea of technical may be much different than other peoples idea of technical.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Why would anyone expect him to do anything other than champion his brand? It's counter-intuitive.
    I would expect him to do otherwise if he were a smart buisnessman. Its not like he is the only company that can build a good 29er, so for him to try to put all his eggs in one basket is stupid. He could easily lose most of his sales to Specialized or other big name brands. Smart companies embrace change. Is there anyone saying that it was a good idea for companies to hold off building 29ers? I didn't hear anyone making similar arguments to yours about 26ers. Is there anyone saying that companies should have "championed their brand" by only building 26ers? Look what happened to American car companies in the 80s and 90s when they refused to embrace change in the car buying market. They continued to embrace low quality, low fuel economy land yachts and they lost sales. They are still paying for those bad choices today. Unfortunately for bike companies there are no government bailouts. I think Mr. Sugai needs to go back to business school.
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  28. #28
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    Sugai is a millionaire thanks to his business acumen. How many bike companies have you started from scratch and turned into big-time brands? Saying he needs to go back to business school is ludicrous, he is arguably the most successful bike industry businessperson of the last decade!

    I mean, seriously, you don't have to love Niner, or 29ers, to appreciate that the company has been very successful and has a great reputation. They do only one wheel size and that's their thing, so if you want something else - buy something else. They will be just fine selling 29ers.

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  29. #29
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    He's a millionaire?

    Is the old adage for the bike industry true? If so, he's a millionaire because he started with $2m and now he's down to $1m.

    People asked about what Mr Sugai would say about 650b on another thread which is why I posted it. This is like people arguing about Ferrari vs Lamborghini...

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  30. #30
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    The old adage is certainly true, but the start-with-$2mil-end-up-with-$1mil companies go out of business after a year or so. Companies that actually last a while are plenty profitable, and yes, Sugai is a millionaire because of Niner.

    Agreed that we're arguing over nothing here, of course. Is Chris Sugai the Mark Cuban of mountain biking?

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  31. #31
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    Wow, that right there is someone desperately trying to dig himself out of a marketing hole he dug himself into. Keep digging, buddy, you are getting deeper.

    I think the lesson from this is that you better think long and hard before you name your company after just one technology that you use.... especially when it is one that you did not even invent. Heck, it's not even a technology, just a size of something.

    Can you imagine a handlebar company being called "720mm Wide Bar"?

    Or a crank company called "175mm Crank"?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  32. #32
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    I absolutely disagree with this assessment. First, I have nothing for or against the gentleman in question. I do own and occasionally ride a 29er, but it's not a Niner brand.

    That said, he was at the forefront of the 29er "movement" and built his brand from the ground up focusing on one specific market segment at the expense of all others. Period.

    Isn't that the very definition of "success"?

    What you're suggesting, if I read your post properly, is: I'm really, really good at producing widget "A." My company has perfected widget "A" as much as it's possible to do so and my customers really like widget "A." But despite our success with widget "A", we need to produce widgets "B" and "C" in order to truly be considered a success in our industry. Being good at just one thing is not enough.

    I just couldn't disagree more. Total respect for a company that stands true to its beliefs and origins and likely has no interest or need to move outside them.

    And taking shots at him like "needs to go back to business school" is silly and pretty lame in my book. It's possible to disagree courteously without being a d!ck.

    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    I would expect him to do otherwise if he were a smart buisnessman. Its not like he is the only company that can build a good 29er, so for him to try to put all his eggs in one basket is stupid. He could easily lose most of his sales to Specialized or other big name brands. Smart companies embrace change. Is there anyone saying that it was a good idea for companies to hold off building 29ers? I didn't hear anyone making similar arguments to yours about 26ers. Is there anyone saying that companies should have "championed their brand" by only building 26ers? Look what happened to American car companies in the 80s and 90s when they refused to embrace change in the car buying market. They continued to embrace low quality, low fuel economy land yachts and they lost sales. They are still paying for those bad choices today. Unfortunately for bike companies there are no government bailouts. I think Mr. Sugai needs to go back to business school.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Niner is a good compancy and their suspension is great - hate to see it all wasted on one wheel size.
    I've thought this for many years. IMHO I think their CVA suspension is all but wasted on 29ers and could shine on smaller wheels.

    If Niner could lose the ego, they could design some of the best DH sleds around the CVA suspension and 650B wheels and is the process learn how to design better 29ers the future. That's why I don't think their geometry has seen significant change over the years, lack of inovation and outside the box thinking from designing one type of product the entire time.

    By doing a 650B DH rig they would immediately gain cred in a segment they have never been able to sell to and change their perception as a company.

    I understand need for Specialize to push their 29ers at See Otter because the theme was 650B and they were late to the 29er party, but Niner needs to adapted. That needs is personified if Enduro takes off in this country.
    Last edited by Drth Vadr; 04-29-2013 at 12:11 PM.

  34. #34
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    Although I disagree with Sugai, I have no beef with him. We all love to ride and drink beer and that's good enough for me.

  35. #35
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    I like many different flavors of cool aid. I like a good steak, in a certain mood, lobster in another, and sometimes even a burger from one of our local non hormone using ranchers. Where would the fun be if you could only eat one main course for dinner each night?
    So I alternate between 4" travel 29" and 5" travel 27.5" mostly; occasionally fully rigid 26" SS. Just depends on mood and where I'm riding

    P.S. No jokes about wives and g/f's please
    Last edited by dwt; 04-30-2013 at 03:19 AM.
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  36. #36
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    I hope for Chris Sugai's and Niner's sake, that he *acts* to make his words true. Looking forward to that "ultimate Niner". Until then, my options are open to all wheel sizes, choosing whichever complete package I find to be ideal for my intentions. I've little respect for the types that are all talk.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Sugai is a millionaire thanks to his business acumen.

    -Walt
    And how many millionaires with "business acumen" run companies into the ground every day? Guys like you think everything is about money. Just cause you have money doesn't mean you know anything. Plenty of CEOs run companies into the ground with bad business plans every year and get millions of dollars in golden parachutes. It sure doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. The CEOs of American car companies have always been millionaires, do you want to tell me how great their business plans are? You act like the guy is Steve Jobs or something. There is nothing unbelievably innovative about building a mountain bike with 700c wheels, it had already been done. He just jumped on a trendy bandwagon at the right time, no great business skills needed there. Its like saying the guy who drives the ice cream truck in the summer needs some great business plan. The consumers are already there, you just offer them a product. Only this time he is staying off the next trendy bandwagon. Its a calculated gamble that he is hoping will pay off and he is publicly denigrating 650b to try to solidify his market. I call that a lame business plan.
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  38. #38
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    I can totally see where he's coming from. He's talking about the riders who don't like such a big change from 26" wheels to 29" wheels. Those riders are not going to try a 29er, but they will give a 27.5 a go. I have a friend firmly in that camp. Only time will tell if he's right and those who try the 27.5 will then go on to try a 29er and 27.5 will die out. I seriously doubt it.

    That's his main argument and it makes total sense when you compare it to the tweener technologies. But as others have said, this is a size and not really technology.

    I had a Rip9 and loved it. I considered a new Rip9, but decided to go with a Carbine 275 because I'm just under 5ft 9in. The new bike is awesome and lots of fun. I would consider another Niner in the future if it can turn as sharp and is as playful as my Carbine.

    I do believe that Niner is not innovating and got burned by the new Enduro 29er if it's as good as the reviews say it is (but it's all media based and they are bought by Specialized). A company with Niner as their name should lead the way, not be following.

    If Niner came out with a low BB, 145mm+ bike with short chain stays in carbon, I'd definitely consider it. An RDO WFO XTR blah blah blah. They should also consider doing an internal gear transmission - something no serious bike company is doing.

  39. #39
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    The problem with his examples of "tweener" technologies dying out is that the ones he is using are not really "tweener" in the way a size between two others is. When you use things that are tweener SIZES, his point fails.

    Typical trail FS bikes used to be 3-4" travel. Now you have ones with 6+" travel. Have all the ones in between died out?
    No.

    Handlebars used to be 22-23" wide, now some people are running ones over 30" wide. Have the sizes in between gone away?
    No.

    Wide / high volume tires have become much more common in recent years. in the late 90's, 2.1 was considered big, now 2.4 are common trail tires. Have the sizes between 2.1 and 2.4 disappeared?
    No.

    I could keep going.....
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    That said, he was at the forefront of the 29er "movement" and built his brand from the ground up focusing on one specific market segment at the expense of all others. Period.
    I don't think this is true. What Chris did was see an opportunity to make money by latching onto a movement. I think the 29er "movement" was started by Gary Fisher and a few others. I remember seeing Gary Fisher racing a 29er HT at the 2001 W/C in Napa.

    What urks me is when people like Chris blabb this kind of crap:

    Feb 2008 issue of Mountain Bike Action: What are your thoughts about the future of 29-inch, 26-inch and the new 650B wheel sizes?

    Chris Sugai: Twenty-nine -inch wheels will supplant 26-inch wheel bikes by 2017. In ten years, all mountain bikes sold from $1000 to $1500 and above will have 29-inch wheels. There will be holdouts, of course, and 26-inch wheel bikes will be sold at places like Costco and K-Mart, but the 29er will take the place of the 26-inch bike as far as the average mountain bike goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    And how many millionaires with "business acumen" run companies into the ground every day? Guys like you think everything is about money. Just cause you have money doesn't mean you know anything. Plenty of CEOs run companies into the ground with bad business plans every year and get millions of dollars in golden parachutes. It sure doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. The CEOs of American car companies have always been millionaires, do you want to tell me how great their business plans are? You act like the guy is Steve Jobs or something. There is nothing unbelievably innovative about building a mountain bike with 700c wheels, it had already been done. He just jumped on a trendy bandwagon at the right time, no great business skills needed there. Its like saying the guy who drives the ice cream truck in the summer needs some great business plan. The consumers are already there, you just offer them a product. Only this time he is staying off the next trendy bandwagon. Its a calculated gamble that he is hoping will pay off and he is publicly denigrating 650b to try to solidify his market. I call that a lame business plan.
    I'm just curious, but how much do you know about Niner's history? The company as a whole, has been lauded for its business model, beyond simply its product, which has been repeatedly referred to as innovative. You are correct that there isn't anything particularly earth shattering or innovative about their product . . . but their delivery of it to market is truly remarkable.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Well, Niner *could* go down in flames and he could die broke and alone, stinking of cheap bourbon in a dark corner of Tinpan alley... but as of right now he has created a super-successful company and in less than a decade turned it into a major industry player.

    I agree, that with hindsight, it was "easy" for Niner to do what they did. Lots of things are obvious 10 years later, right? I guarantee it wasn't easy or risk free when they actually had to do it, though, and it's just lame to call Sugai a "bad businessman" when actually all you really want to say is that you like a certain size of wheels and he doesn't. Is he Steve Jobs? No. Did he do a great job with his really excellent and profitable company? Yes.

    -Walt

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    Here's the thing, though - at least according to the figures from BRAIN, he's right. It's only been 5 years, not 10, and 29ers are ~50% of the total market and much more (they didn't break it down in the article very well so it's hard to say exactly how much) of high end sales. 26ers are largely relegated to DH bikes and cheapos in most bike shops I've been in during the last several years.

    You can read all about it here if you don't believe me:
    Big wheels loom large | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    What urks me is when people like Chris blabb this kind of crap:

    Feb 2008 issue of Mountain Bike Action: What are your thoughts about the future of 29-inch, 26-inch and the new 650B wheel sizes?

    Chris Sugai: Twenty-nine -inch wheels will supplant 26-inch wheel bikes by 2017. In ten years, all mountain bikes sold from $1000 to $1500 and above will have 29-inch wheels. There will be holdouts, of course, and 26-inch wheel bikes will be sold at places like Costco and K-Mart, but the 29er will take the place of the 26-inch bike as far as the average mountain bike goes.

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    Forgetting his business acumen since he may be pretty smart or just lucky, he's a jerk (TO ME) with his elitist comments. I was never able to get an answer from him about his fragile carbon forks to determine whether I should stop riding mine. Fortunately my LBS clued me in on the extent of the breakage.

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    What's the difference between him and the 650b fans that keep proclaiming the death of the 26" bike?

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    Damn it! I'm starting a c company called "Twentysevenpointfiver" and put everyone out of business......just need an investor and a business partner, already have connections in Taiwan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Here's the thing, though - at least according to the figures from BRAIN, he's right. It's only been 5 years, not 10, and 29ers are ~50% of the total market and much more (they didn't break it down in the article very well so it's hard to say exactly how much) of high end sales. 26ers are largely relegated to DH bikes and cheapos in most bike shops I've been in during the last several years.

    You can read all about it here if you don't believe me:
    Big wheels loom large | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    -Walt
    Most mountain bikes sold never see dirt... Here in BC, on actual trails you still see way more 26 than 29. I can see 650b taking over here soon. An other thing that's happening here is trails have changed. The ultra tech lines of old are rare now, they still exist but certainly not like before. Stunts aren't very popular with the new school riders and the "do or die" lines all have ride around now, something you never saw on the shore 10-15 years ago. Times are certainly changing.

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    What does any of that have to do with wheel sizes? I agree that lots of people buy bikes of all kinds and don't ride them. I also agree that people are tired of stunts, probably because they're a pain to build and maintain and only fun once or twice. Again, though, not sure how that's relevant to this discussion.

    My point was just that in 2008 Sugai said 29ers would be most of the mountain bike market in 10 years, and 5 years in it looks like so far he's right. Whether that's good or bad is up to your individual interpretation, of course.

    -Walt

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    This ***NSFW*** rant has probably been posted here before but seems to be the polar opposite of Sugai's view and definitely closer to the truth. Putting this out there (though I am sure it was well conceived from a marketing standpoint) gave me even me even more respect for SC than I already had! Sorry if OT or overposted but seems kinda relevant.

    Santa Cruz Bronson: Bike Magazine's Exclusive "Blueprint" Story on the New 650b Bike - YouTube

  50. #50
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    Niner's Chris Sugai on 650b/275

    On the 26'er phasing out thing:

    http://m.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/arti...laught--37189/



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    Quote Originally Posted by veteran_youth View Post
    This ***NSFW*** rant has probably been posted here before but seems to be the polar opposite of Sugai's view and definitely closer to the truth. Putting this out there (though I am sure it was well conceived from a marketing standpoint) gave me even me even more respect for SC than I already had! Sorry if OT or overposted but seems kinda relevant.

    Santa Cruz Bronson: Bike Magazine's Exclusive "Blueprint" Story on the New 650b Bike - YouTube
    This is a smart video to release, I have gained a little more respect for them also. Most telling was when the engineer said, "How can you ignore thousands of emails every month asking you to build this bike?"

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    What does any of that have to do with wheel sizes? I agree that lots of people buy bikes of all kinds and don't ride them. I also agree that people are tired of stunts, probably because they're a pain to build and maintain and only fun once or twice. Again, though, not sure how that's relevant to this discussion.

    My point was just that in 2008 Sugai said 29ers would be most of the mountain bike market in 10 years, and 5 years in it looks like so far he's right. Whether that's good or bad is up to your individual interpretation, of course.

    -Walt
    Have you ever tried a skinny on a 29er

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    Actually, yes. Many times. It's pretty similar to riding a stunt on any other mountain bike in my experience.

    -Walt

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    Ferrari, for f's sake.

  55. #55
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    For some reason, I want to relate all this wheel size drama to peoples' impressions of sexual orientations. It's like, people want to believe that 26" is straight and natural; people find 29er to be gay, with some seeing it as girl on girl (love it) and others seeing it as guy on guy (repulsive, hate it); with 650b being like the type who likes anal, in which some see it as crossing the line where the girl might be sticking things up the guy's ass, and not needed to find enjoyment, with others finding it to offer the best of both worlds, able to get off, yet not make babies, and yet not be called gay...

    Should you be worried of those blind tests, where you are given a bike, and aren't told what size the wheels are, on a night ride? Is that like the equivalent of being set up with a tranny in a blind date for some "late night fun"? Heaven forbid that you say you actually enjoyed it.

    Just seems to be a matter of people altering their vision to support their current beliefs. In the end, what do you really want? To have fun on trails, enjoying nature and the outdoors, while improving your physical fitness? To maybe maximize the fun and minimize the unpleasant stuff? Wouldn't mind if people kept the ego out of it.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 04-30-2013 at 11:35 AM.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    For some reason, I want to relate all this wheel size drama to people's impression of gays. It's like, people want to believe that 26" is straight and natural; people find 29er to be ****, with some seeing it as girl on girl (love it) and some seeing it as guy on guy (repulsive, hate it); 650b is like anal in general, in which some might accept it, but some see it as crossing the line where the girl might be sticking things up the guy's ass, and not needed to find enjoyment, or finding it to offer the best of both worlds, able to get off, yet not make babies, and yet not be called gay...

    Just seems to be a matter of people altering their vision to support their current beliefs.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    It's pretty similar to riding a stunt on any other mountain bike in my experience.

    -Walt
    Seriously, you find it the same??? I can ride most stunts on the shore with a 26er. No way I can do the same on a 29er. (well the ones I have tried anyway)

  58. #58
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    Yes, I find it the same. But you have to remember I don't ride or build generic 18" chainstay 29ers, too. If you grabbed a Rumblefish or some other godawful long beast you'd certainly hate trying to ride shore-type trails but that's because the frame geometry sucks, not the wheel size. Try a Canfield or the new Enduro or a Lenz or something decent and I think you'll feel differently.

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by team_wee View Post
    Seriously, you find it the same??? I can ride most stunts on the shore with a 26er. No way I can do the same on a 29er. (well the ones I have tried anyway)

  59. #59
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    Walt, any updates on that absurdium of yours, beyond that Dec '12 blog post?

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    Stupidmobile!

    You missed out on Stupidmobile! It's awesomely fun.

    Niner's Chris Sugai on 650b/275-waltht2.jpg

    I'm just waiting for someone to request a 38cm chainstay 650b (or 37cm 26er) now...

    -Walt

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that it's got much less to do with the size of wheels you and your friends ride and more to do with the fact that you're simply the better rider.
    God I must totally suck. My two 29'' friends regularly smoke me on my 650b. There are two other guys in my group who still ride 26", but we never see them during the ride. They get dropped early and don't catch up. So I recently caved and ordered a Tall Boyc. On the same wavelength, one of the 26" boys ordered an Anthem. Our group has been riding together for 10 years. The fastest guy was fastest when we were all on 26". On his TBc, he is uncatchable. I used to be on his wheel. Therefore I am hopeful that I will be back again once I get the same bike. We shall soon find out how much is bike and how much is rider.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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    [QUOTE=Drth Vadr;10356968]I've thought this for many years. IMHO I think their CVA suspension is all but wasted on 29ers and could shine on smaller wheels. [quote]

    It does... they actually stole the CVA design from a taiwanese factory catalog bike maker, who hadn't bothered to file for a US patent on it. Most of the mega factories try all sorta of linkage designs and never file patents because in a land of copy cats, there's little point. But that doesn't stop folks from stealing publically known designs from other countries and then filing patents in their home country for them, especially in the USA, land of patent trolls and patent lawsuits.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    God I must totally suck. My two 29'' friends regularly smoke me on my 650b. There are two other guys in my group who still ride 26", but we never see them during the ride. They get dropped early and don't catch up. So I recently caved and ordered a Tall Boyc. On the same wavelength, one of the 26" boys ordered an Anthem. Our group has been riding together for 10 years. The fastest guy was fastest when we were all on 26". On his TBc, he is uncatchable. I used to be on his wheel. Therefore I am hopeful that I will be back again once I get the same bike. We shall soon find out how much is bike and how much is rider.
    The bike industry loves you. Keep it coming.

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    Niner's Chris Sugai on 650b/275

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
    The bike industry loves you. Keep it coming.
    Yes it does, and so does the ski industry (where the participants upgrade equipment much more often). And the feeling is mutual. Without mtn & road bikes and DH skis & XC skis, I would likely go postal.


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    Quote Originally Posted by veteran_youth View Post
    This ***NSFW*** rant has probably been posted here before but seems to be the polar opposite of Sugai's view and definitely closer to the truth. Putting this out there (though I am sure it was well conceived from a marketing standpoint) gave me even me even more respect for SC than I already had! Sorry if OT or overposted but seems kinda relevant.

    Santa Cruz Bronson: Bike Magazine's Exclusive "Blueprint" Story on the New 650b Bike - YouTube
    That's a great interview. Further, their philosophy of "building whatever the customer wants is fine with us" make SC even more interesting for my next purchase.

    If I was in the market for a longer travel bike, there's no doubt I would wait on a 650b rather than get a 26er. I'm planning on selling my Trance X and sticking with my two 29ers for now. I almost feel cheated in a way that the 650b thing wasn't available back when I bought the Trance, as I might not have experimented with the 29er's so much. Not that I'm complaining, for my mostly XC riding the 29ers are great. But it'd be fun to have a 650b too.

    I think Niner's analogy is incorrect. "Tweener" technologies give a sample of the design to come then are ultimately refined, of course this is all in hindsight. The 650b idea seems more like trying to combine the best aspects of the already known 26 and 29 sizing. What if all along 29er's were the in-between idea?
    27.5 may ultimately crash and burn but it's not an ill-conceived idea. I'm somewhat jealous I'm not in a position right now to try one out.

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    [QUOTE=DeeEight;10359676][QUOTE=Drth Vadr;10356968]I've thought this for many years. IMHO I think their CVA suspension is all but wasted on 29ers and could shine on smaller wheels.

    It does... they actually stole the CVA design from a taiwanese factory catalog bike maker, who hadn't bothered to file for a US patent on it. Most of the mega factories try all sorta of linkage designs and never file patents because in a land of copy cats, there's little point. But that doesn't stop folks from stealing publically known designs from other countries and then filing patents in their home country for them, especially in the USA, land of patent trolls and patent lawsuits.
    Since I think he's a large douche now id love to see hear more on him stealing the cva

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    Walt builds bike called Stupidmobile.

    Internet closes.

    Everyone rides a bike.

    Chris Sugai punches 8 or 9 of us in the face.

    We all ride bikes and then drink beer. And then ride bikes some more.

    mk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    For some reason, I want to relate all this wheel size drama to peoples' impressions of sexual orientations. It's like, people want to believe that 26" is straight and natural; people find 29er to be gay, with some seeing it as girl on girl (love it) and others seeing it as guy on guy (repulsive, hate it); with 650b being like the type who likes anal, in which some see it as crossing the line where the girl might be sticking things up the guy's ass, and not needed to find enjoyment, with others finding it to offer the best of both worlds, able to get off, yet not make babies, and yet not be called gay...

    Should you be worried of those blind tests, where you are given a bike, and aren't told what size the wheels are, on a night ride? Is that like the equivalent of being set up with a tranny in a blind date for some "late night fun"? Heaven forbid that you say you actually enjoyed it.

    Just seems to be a matter of people altering their vision to support their current beliefs. In the end, what do you really want? To have fun on trails, enjoying nature and the outdoors, while improving your physical fitness? To maybe maximize the fun and minimize the unpleasant stuff? Wouldn't mind if people kept the ego out of it.
    Anal? Trannies? WTF... What site is this?

    You are right though, 29ers are gay.

  69. #69
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    What any of that really necessary?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    He'd have had such a better reception if he'd have just taken the "politician" approach. Something along the lines of "at Niner we focus on our core stance that 29" wheels are the superior wheel for mountain bikes, 29 is who we are and what we do...."

    That sort of calm and measured statement is easy and doesn't flair up passions or paint one into a corner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow View Post
    He'd have had such a better reception if he'd have just taken the "politician" approach. Something along the lines of "at Niner we focus on our core stance that 29" wheels are the superior wheel for mountain bikes, 29 is who we are and what we do...."

    That sort of calm and measured statement is easy and doesn't flair up passions or paint one into a corner.
    Excellent way to put it.

    On the other hand, it is sort of ridiculous that people are being so critical of the guy. Come on, he made millions off of 29ers, and will likely continue to do so, it is his business... What do you expect the guy to say!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Actually, yes. Many times. It's pretty similar to riding a stunt on any other mountain bike in my experience.

    -Walt
    Walt, you need to stop trolling the 650 threads. It gets old. Chris Sugai blew it by: #1 being a poor publicist for his company, and #2 not starting up "Fiver" as a spin off using the new wheel size. Now, regardless of if he has a change of heart, he will always catch hell for his previous statements. Of course as long as he is making a profit he will probably spew whatever he wants. Viva America!

    There is a place for every wheel size, but if your trail has tight turns, sharp compressions, etc. you had better man up. That's 'cause the biggest drawback to 29'ers is the effort to get them back up to that momentum that makes them special. I can't wait to ride my 650 out west, where a 29'er might handle better than it would back east. But here in NC the 650 is my holy grail. Now I need to man up myself and get in shape for my first Enduro in June!

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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Has he been paying attention?

    And how is wheel size "technology"?

    He should be more worried about his frames breaking, and losing sales to superior 29ers, like Tallboys and Stumpjumpers.
    and building high end bikes that are actually compatible with the high end components people want to put on them.

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    I just got back from my 2nd ride on my new 650b (rocky mtn. altitude 730).I also own Gary Fisher hi fi 29er and aYeti 575(26er).The 29er is stil faster and better for some trails But the 650b does every thing as good or better then the Yeti(witch is for sale).29er is killing the 26" hardtail and 650b will kill 26" fs. Niner bikes is safe for now.

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    It's laughable, the 29er and 26er get a pass on their flaws, whilst the 6fitty gets beat on, in reality for not having the flaws of either...hmmmm?
    Let us ponder the beauty of a simple solution. =]
    '10 Marin MountVision 650b conversion

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPhatrick View Post
    Walt, you need to stop trolling the 650 threads. It gets old....
    What?
    When I am skimming through threads, Walt is one of the few people who's comments I always stop to read.

    Hmmm....let's see....listen to some anonymous MTBer present their emotional opinion as fact....or listen to a guy who's been an active member of the industry for (how many years) tell it like it really is.....?

    You can feel however you want about Chris Sugai, but like Walt said, the guy is doing something right. He's made himself a millionaire building & selling bikes. And, if you were to take a snapshot in time right now, his predictions about 29ers are somewhat true (as Walt pointed out). I, on the other hand, am chained to my computer all day working for the man.

    How stupid is Chris Sugai. Jokes on him.

    Keep 'em coming Walt. It's nice to hear the voice of reason in some of these silly threads (however painful it can be to internet people and their emotional attachment to things like mountain bike wheel size).

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPhatrick View Post

    There is a place for every wheel size, but if your trail has tight turns, sharp compressions, etc. you had better man up. That's 'cause the biggest drawback to 29'ers is the effort to get them back up to that momentum that makes them special. I can't wait to ride my 650 out west, where a 29'er might handle better than it would back east. But here in NC the 650 is my holy grail. Now I need to man up myself and get in shape for my first Enduro in June!
    Man, are we really back onto the tight turns and momentum discussions? For real?

    Ride whatever bike that puts the biggest smile on your face. It's really that simple.

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    Niner's Chris Sugai on 650b/275

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPhatrick View Post
    Walt, you need to stop trolling the 650 threads
    Patrick, gotta say that Walt & Troll is an oxymoron. Copperfield is the classic troll, throwing red meat at regulars in a particular forum for no purpose other than inciting angry retorts and to stroke his own weird little ego.

    Walt, OTOH, is an industry insider who's been around since back in the day and has forgotten more about bikes than most of us will ever know.

    I'll grant you he is a grumpy old man- I'm his age and can say that. Fact of life. I'm even grumpier, perhaps jealous for lacking his talent and experience. Whatever he posts is good input AFAIC. Even when he slaps me down , which is not infrequent


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    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  79. #79
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    I really enjoy reading about all the cool innovation on the 650B forum, but all the hate in this thread reminds me too much of the sad, divided political landscape of our country. F**k that! I'm going riding.

  80. #80
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    Point taken, Thanks. Sorry Walt. I'm an older coot as well, 30 years on a fat tire in May. Ride on

  81. #81
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    There was a thread where people were talking about what Mr Sugai thought about 650b which is why I started this thread with his statements.

    Negative rep and some overly-harsh statements later, I only wish it stayed more positive. Niner rode the trend successfully and it's pretty clear that Niner continues as a going concern. Like most smaller companies, if they don't stay relevant, it's a long, slow decline to closure. If there's one thing the bike industry has seen, it's many really good, thoughtful, well-lead companies going down the tubes. I certainly don't want to see that happen to anyone. I'd be the first one to congratulate Niner if they broadened their offerings. I would also buy one straight-away if they had geo that I liked.

    I don't know Mr Sugai at all. I talked to him on the phone once. I'm sure he's a great guy and any criticism I level at Niner should bet taken simply as a rider. I have quite a few friends on those bikes and they love, love, LOVE them.

    mk
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  82. #82
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    I don't expect everyone to "get" 650b, I don't expect every company to produce one. Mr. Sugai is either a true believer in his wheelsize or "all in" with a niche product so I can appreciate why he'd be dismissive of the "b." I think he could've been a bit more diplomatic about it, but perhaps the drive and single mindedness often needed to start and run a business makes that less of a priority to him? Dunno, but I've never thought 650b was the end all for everyone. I like it, but if anyone likes to ride something else, that's cool with me! I think the interview with the fellow from Santa Cruz posted elsewhere had a comment along the lines of "I wish people weren't so hung up on wheelsize." A properly designed bike just works-don't matter what size it's shoes. Some work better for some in some situations-pick one or have a few. S'all good...

  83. #83
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    Chris Sugai seems to have had some solid foresight when it came to the emergence of 29" wheels in the MTB market.

    However, his company suffers from a tragic flaw that won't allow him to recognize that the current 650b trend is likely to become much more mainstream.

    His company's identity is tied to a specific mechanical attribute, which as good as the attribute is for many, does not work for ALL.

    The situation is somewhat similar to Klein's identity being so closely tied to premium aluminum bikes, as titanium and carbon bikes gained popularity. I don't think Gary Klein ever referred to carbon frames as a gimmick or trend, or however Chris Sugai diminished the 650b wheel, though.

    Niner appears to make nice enough components, that they'll continue to have success in the 29" market, but i think the name of his company has painted him in a corner with respect to the 650b wheel.

    It's unfortunate, as from what I've read, the 650br/29f setup for full suspension rides has undeniable merit.

    I expect to see a lot more 26r/650bf and 650br/29f setups in the future.

    no need to hate the 650b, bro...it's just another option for various sized riders, and various riding styles/conditions.

  84. #84
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    I really admire him that he is not jumping on this anotjer-kiddy-wheel crap.
    Why going backwards? It is much better to invest in 29er specific derailleurs, short CS, dropper bars etc.
    To summarize one can build a 29er as nimble as a 27,5er, but with more stability tracion and no more Over The Bars factor.
    Most 29ers are a bit cumbersome due to 26er specific parts used on them. I believe new crop of 29ers will prove 584mm unnecessary.

  85. #85
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    I personally welcome the 650b wheels. I am customizing an old (1999) Klein Adroit which came with a suspension fork, which i can't stand. I am switching to a rigid fork, but want an increased wheel diameter up front - but the 29" front wheel paired with the 26" rear may not look and perform how I want. So, for me, the 650b will improve the rolling ability, but not slacken the head angle too much.

    solves my problem, nicely

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post


    Have you measured a 650b with Maxxis High Roller2s? I hear the outer diameter is equal to a 29er with a low profile. Therefore, 29ers are completely irrelevant unless you are buying a Krampus.
    What happens to the wheel weight then? Smaller yet heavier rotating weight, right? Just curious. Seems like you are going with a 850-900 gram 650b compared to a 550-600 gram or less 29er tire.

  87. #87
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    Niner's Chris Sugai on 650b/275

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    I really admire him that he is not jumping on this anotjer-kiddy-wheel crap.
    Why going backwards? It is much better to invest in 29er specific derailleurs, short CS, dropper bars etc.
    To summarize one can build a 29er as nimble as a 27,5er, but with more stability tracion and no more Over The Bars factor.
    Most 29ers are a bit cumbersome due to 26er specific parts used on them. I believe new crop of 29ers will prove 584mm unnecessary.
    Are you on Niner's payroll? If not, you should be. Like minds and all that


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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post


    Have you measured a 650b with Maxxis High Roller2s? I hear the outer diameter is equal to a 29er with a low profile. Therefore, 29ers are completely irrelevant unless you are buying a Krampus.
    All of the 27,5" freaks tell me that this is what 584mm gives you- smaller tyre like 2,3" with 26er 2,8"
    You are contrdicting yourself hehe.

    I can get ~745mm outer diameter Mtn King 2,4" now give me a 27,5" tyre weighing around 840 grams with such 745mm outer diameter.

  89. #89
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Hey, DC is down to just one red Chiclet.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by team_wee View Post
    Have you ever tried a skinny on a 29er
    Yes - and no-one died.

    Quote Originally Posted by team_wee View Post
    Most mountain bikes sold never see dirt... Here in BC, on actual trails you still see way more 26 than 29. I can see 650b taking over here soon.
    Where on earth do you come up with this crap? One datapoint out of Steed and Bronsons?
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  91. #91
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    MY OPINION:

    The best wheel size is the one you like to ride the most. nothing else matters.

    Yeah, i own 559, 584, and 622 wheels. I ride what strikes my mood. Just ride a bike that makes you happy. Just ride a bike that makes you want to ride it, whatever it is.

    People need to get over this whole "better then that" thing. The best thing is whatever you enjoy.

  92. #92
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Damn it! I'm starting a c company called "Twentysevenpointfiver" and put everyone out of business......just need an investor and a business partner, already have connections in Taiwan.
    That's great! just don't make any comments like 27.5's will take over the world and 29ers will be sold at Costco, KMart and WallyMart

    .

  93. #93
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    To ride this trail is completely free.
    Just show me a triangle..... make it three!

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Wizard View Post
    ???

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Wizard View Post
    Huh, that is not the application I would have thought of 650b for.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  96. #96
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    I dont see anything wrong with what Chris said he is mostly correct......Do you guys want the Girven suspension stem to make a comeback and his/there new CX bike has
    the same diameter rim as the rest so he squeaks by calling it a Niner. The guys that sould be bummed out is the 26 wheel hold outs because I believe 650 and 29er are
    obsoleteing 26 wheels fast!!!
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

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    I'm sorry what part of "BIGLY" didn't you understand?

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Wizard View Post
    Look like a 700c (a/k/a 29") cross bike to me.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  98. #98
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    I'm thinking it's a Troll dig given the size comparison of a cx tire to a 27.5 circ/diam etc.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  99. #99
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    My prediction:

    By 2016, at least within the XC race scene, the majority of XC FS bikes will be 27.5 and the hardtail market will primarily be 29er still.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    My prediction:

    By 2016, at least within the XC race scene, the majority of XC FS bikes will be 27.5 and the hardtail market will primarily be 29er still.
    And all the cross bikes will be 29" with disc brakes
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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