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Neo Moto, Hans Dampf or Nobby Nick?

13K views 29 replies 11 participants last post by  MTB Pilot 
#1 ·
I currently have a Racing Ralph front/Quasi Moto rear on my 650b Epic. I'll be switching the RR to the rear and I want a front tire with as much grip as possible. I ride in Indiana mostly. Hard pack with rocks and roots. I want the grip but I want the tire that has the least rolling resistance. I've narrowed it down to these three.

Any suggestions? I did ride a Hans Dampf on a Niner and was very impressed with it. It may be the leading contender at this point. Has anyone ridden all three and can give me a comparison?

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
In the 29er models I've ridden both the Hans Dampf and the Nobby Nic and I can tell you that there is a substantial difference in rolling resistance between the two. If your trails are sufficient for using a Racing Ralph in the back, then I would easily (of these two tires) recommend the Nobby Nic for the front. I don't have any experience with the Neo Moto - it looks like a nice tire too. The one thing about the Nobby Nic is that it is a tall, high volume tire, which means that you can run lower PSI in it and get some pretty good traction as a result. FWIW I'm building a 650b bike for my wife and I'm putting her on the RR rear / Nobby Nic front combo.

Incidentally, on my 29er I started with a Hans Dampf front and rear, with the front tire being the TrailStar version which has a lower durometer rubber (i.e grippier, but more rolling resistance). After one ride, I moved the PaceStar Hans Dampf to the front and put a Nobby Nic on the rear. For regular riding on very rocky trails, this is a great, confidence-inspiring setup, even if it does roll slower than many other tire combos.
 
#3 ·
...on my 29er I started with a Hans Dampf front and rear, with the front tire being the TrailStar version which has a lower durometer rubber (i.e grippier, but more rolling resistance). After one ride, I moved the PaceStar Hans Dampf to the front and put a Nobby Nic on the rear. For regular riding on very rocky trails, this is a great, confidence-inspiring setup, even if it does roll slower than many other tire combos.
Would you mind providing us with a direct comparison between the two fronts and the two rears you refer to here? IOW, other than that you changed and apparently like the combination you have now, what does it do for you that the other setup did not? And was there anything the other setup did better (but perhaps you didn't need or didn't care for)?

Fred
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the input. As I said, I was impressed with the Hans Dampf. It seemed to roll very well considering it's aggressive tread. It's interesting you say the Nobby Nic rolls much better.
 
#6 ·
The Hans Dampf TrailStar tire is significantly slower rolling than the PaceStar - running two of the PaceStar tires would definitely be a better option for me. However (see my long-winded post for more info) I am really interested in trying the Nobby Nic front and rear. For my riding purposes, I actually think the Hans Dampf is probably overkill. However, it also feels like it should be a very durable tire.
 
#7 ·
Incidentally, another tire that people really like on our trails is the Maxxis Ardent. While they are generally using the 2.4" version, I'm glad to see that it is available in the 650b, even if right now it is only the 2.25" one. I'm going to try it on my 29er at some point, and get an opinion for whether it might be a more durable option for my wife's 650b setup. I'm a little paranoid about the Racing Ralph 650b as a rear tire since it doesn't have the SnakeSkin protection. Of course my wife is a feather-weight and isn't a particularly aggressive rider so it might be a non-issue.
 
#9 ·
I currently have a Racing Ralph front/Quasi Moto rear on my 650b Epic. I'll be switching the RR to the rear and I want a front tire with as much grip as possible. I ride in Indiana mostly. Hard pack with rocks and roots. I want the grip but I want the tire that has the least rolling resistance. I've narrowed it down to these three.

Any suggestions? I did ride a Hans Dampf on a Niner and was very impressed with it. It may be the leading contender at this point. Has anyone ridden all three and can give me a comparison?

Thanks in advance.
Your going a looooong way between a Ra Ra and a HD. There's an awful difference in weight which is going to vastly affect your handling. Rolling resistance will be the least of your worries. In Pacestar, the rolling resistance stats are very simialr for 2.4 No Ni and 2.35 HD anyway. Cornering traction is a huge step up if that's what you need.

Are you running a Ra Ra with the new tread pattern or old. I've run both in 29er and new tread corners much better.A 29er 2.25 new pattern Ra Ra corners more predictably than a 2.4 Ra Ra in the old pattern.

Throw a curve ball in. If you have a good wide rim or a crest and your trails are substantially dry, try a Neo 2.1 on the front.Corners much better than the old patern Ra Ra.Looking at the tread patterns I suspect the new Ra Ra pattern would almost be as good as the neo 2.1 in cornering especially as it has much better compounds.They are both virtually identical in volume width and height..

I've got HD in 26" and have tried No Ni in all wheel sizes and widths and have a NN Ni 2.35 650B. Not that impressed really. The 2.35 is virtually a 2.25 No Ni on steroids. The 2.4 size used to have substantially larger edge tread so cornered better. HD even in 26" is miles better. The No Ni 2.35 isn't night and day better than a Neo 2.1 in dry loose over hard conditions. The edge tread of the No Ni is angled, this effectively makes the meat of the tread much narrower and softens an already soft edge tread. So they squirm if pushed hard and don't bite as well as those tires that have solid square edge tread blocks like the Neo's and the HD. I find the Neo 2.3 edges too hard and rigid though. You can feel them scuffing on hard ground as they don't flex and scramble to bite. A softer compound on both Neos' would be a step up. All the schwalbe tires would be better on wet hard surfaces.

Relative to the old Ra Ra you are a step up in traction if that's all you need. Even the 2.35 feels pretty quick. The 2.25 is much lighter so won't affect your handling so much. Should be similar but I suspect slightly worse than a neo 2.1 in cornering grip in hard loose over hard conditions and much better on wet tree roots.Should be slightly quicker with the better casing technology.
 
#15 ·
I'm wondering if the Trail Taker is discontinued...I read somewhere they ae an earlier run of another branded tire.
I picked up a set this week. I'm not a tire expert, but they appear to me to be a very well made tire. I'm thinking they will discontinue in the Vee Rubber brand and the price will go ^ once they are made by another manufacturer.maybe it might be good to stock up while the price is what it is.
Anybody got any thoughts about this?
 
#16 ·
From what I know they will not be discontinued... Vee Rubber is here to stay and is going to be a big player. The Trail Taker was supposed to be made for Pacenti Mega-Moto... Since Vee Rubber has the rights and manufacturing for this pattern they are going to continue making it while demand is there...

Starting in April Vee Rubber is planning to bring over 10 different 650B tires to the US and I am super exited about it.... They make really great quality tires 120TPI and they all work tubeless...

I ride, race on Vee Rubber tires.
 
#17 ·
From what I know they will not be discontinued... Vee Rubber is here to stay and is going to be a big player. The Trail Taker was supposed to be made for Pacenti Mega-Moto... Since Vee Rubber has the rights and manufacturing for this pattern they are going to continue making it while demand is there...

Starting in April Vee Rubber is planning to bring over 10 different 650B tires to the US and I am super exited about it.... They make really great quality tires 120TPI and they all work tubeless...

I ride, race on Vee Rubber tires.
Good to know...I'm looking for some rear tires also...a bit smaller than the takers...but as big as possible.
Won't know how big til I'm further into the build.
As I said before, I'm not a tire expert, but the Takers look real sharp to me...very well constructed.
 
#18 ·
My order from bike-discount.de finally arrived from Deutschland:thumbsup: I wanted to try the Schwalbe HD/NN set up and the HD Super Gravity on my Session 88. I've been running the Nevegal 2.35 up front for a year and really like it, but am really interested in the flat top profile of the HD. It measured a true 2.35 on the L-B carbon rim, but the casing is wider than the Nev. It did weigh more than I expected; Schwalbe's site says 795gr, the box said 1040gr(same as the Super Gravity version) and it weighed in at 839gr. The HD SG actually weighed in at 1021gr.

I've tried the Neo-Moto 2.3 (3 of them) and the Ardent 2.25 on the back. Both have been good tires traction wise, but I've torn 2 out of 3 sidewalls on the NMs. The Ardent is a great HIGH volume tire and great traction, but around 50 miles I got a 1/8th of an inch hole in the "EXO" casing between knobs. I ordered the NN 2.25 Pacestar thinking it would be a true, high volume 2.25. I'm pretty worried that it won't survive long here in the AZ desert. No Snakeskin on the 2.25, it doesn't measure true(more like 2.15) and the knobs feel softer than the HD Trailstar knobs. It weighed in lighter than expected at 563gr. If I like the tire, I may have to go with a 2.35 version with the Snakeskin.

Dirty bike and new black tires!:D:thumbsup: Here are a few pics:
Logo Label Brand Trademark Packaging and labeling

Automotive exterior Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Bumper Auto part

Automotive tire Black Synthetic rubber Technology Tread

Here is the Nevegal on a Flow rim and the HD on L-B carbon rim side by side
Bicycle tire Blue Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Tread

Bicycle tire Tire Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel Wheel
 
#20 ·
My order from bike-discount.de finally arrived from Deutschland:thumbsup: I wanted to try the Schwalbe HD/NN set up and the HD Super Gravity on my Session 88. I've been running the Nevegal 2.35 up front for a year and really like it, but am really interested in the flat top profile of the HD. It measured a true 2.35 on the L-B carbon rim, but the casing is wider than the Nev. It did weigh more than I expected; Schwalbe's site says 795gr, the box said 1040gr(same as the Super Gravity version) and it weighed in at 839gr. The HD SG actually weighed in at 1021gr.

I've tried the Neo-Moto 2.3 (3 of them) and the Ardent 2.25 on the back. Both have been good tires traction wise, but I've torn 2 out of 3 sidewalls on the NMs. The Ardent is a great HIGH volume tire and great traction, but around 50 miles I got a 1/8th of an inch hole in the "EXO" casing between knobs. I ordered the NN 2.25 Pacestar thinking it would be a true, high volume 2.25. I'm pretty worried that it won't survive long here in the AZ desert. No Snakeskin on the 2.25, it doesn't measure true(more like 2.15) and the knobs feel softer than the HD Trailstar knobs. It weighed in lighter than expected at 563gr. If I like the tire, I may have to go with a 2.35 version with the Snakeskin.

Dirty bike and new black tires!:D:thumbsup: Here are a few pics:
View attachment 780080
View attachment 780081
View attachment 780082
Here is the Nevegal on a Flow rim and the HD on L-B carbon rim side by side
View attachment 780083
View attachment 780084
MTB Pilot, great post but I have some questions so I can update my thread here (http://forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/27-5-tire-size-reference-833399.html)...

From the pic it appears that the 2.35 Nevegal is wider than the 2.35 HD - can you confirm?

Can you compare the diameter and width of these tires with the Neo-Moto and Ardent and confirm for me whether I need to make some adjustments in my tire size reference thread?

Fred
 
#22 ·
Looks like in the picture that the overall diameter of the HD is a little lower then Nevegal too,,,,, Is it just the picture or is it a bit shorter?

How does the NN 2.25 compare in diameter to the Nev 2.35? I run Nevs right now and Im looking to go with a lighter tire but want to keep it close to the same size.
 
#23 ·
No the Nev and HD side by side was on slightly sloping ground. Now the Nev that I'm measuring has been used off and on for a year on a front wheel, so is a little worn. Here is what I came up with:

TIRE Knob width Casing width Height
HD 2.35 2.29 27 7/8th inch
Nev 2.38 2.22 27 5/8th inch
NN 2.15 2.14 27.5 inch
Neo Moto 2.34 2.21 27.5 inch

Nothing is exact:D and the pictures for height aren't all taken at the best angle, but I took the the measurement before the pic.

I wasn't able to measure the Ardent because I took it off to try the NN, but will be putting it back on a Flow EX that the NM is on now.
 

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#24 ·
Got out and did 9 miles on the new rubber today, with 5 steep climb, two of them chunky, and 7 fast and chunky descents. The HD seemed just as good if not better than the Nev on the front. I don't think I pushed it as hard, being the first time on the tire. I'm a little disappointed with the NN. I started out with 30 psi and felt the rim bottom out on a few water breaks made of rock. The knobs felt REALLY squirmy! It felt okay in the climbs and gripped well in the loose over hard, the really thick and loose rock, but I spun out twice on really large rocks in two different climbs. Like I said, the knobs are really soft and I can feel them leaning over on the hard rock surfaces. I put a bit more air in and they felt really harsh on one of the descents and the back end felt like it was hanging up on all the big chunky sections. The tire is not a high volume tire like the Ardent 2.25, in which I can run 28-30 PSI no problem, and feels like it has quite a bit more rolling resistance. I'm 195 lbs naked, so I'm not a light weight. The pacestar compound on the NN 2.25 feels softer than the trailstar on the HD 2.35. Not sure what I'm going to do; Give it some more time or sell it now for $45.
 

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#28 ·
WEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL, I don't have to figure what to do with the Nobby Nick now. Went to a different mountain today to give it another chance. These trails have everything the desert has to offer. There are more hard packed trails with big rocks implanted in them and not just loose rock. The 2.25 NN is NOT high volume and it is really hard to find a sweet spot for PSI without it being squirmy or to harsh bouncing off the medium to large rocks. Maybe it would work for lighter riders and probably better on the front with the large soft knobs. It feels to me as the highest rolling resistance tire that I've had on the back since running 650b. I feel SOOOOOO slow climbing hard pack; Like towing an anchor. Anyway, 7 miles in the climb, in a techy rock section the sidewall was the victim of a rock(new record of 16 miles before tearing a sidewall). Didn't slash it wide open, but put a hole that Stan's wouldn't fill. Schwalbe tires without snakeskin are not going to survive the AZ desert, especially if your an aggressive rider in the roughest terrain. I booted it, tubed up and turned to go back. I still couldn't find a sweet spot on PSI with the tube, but started out with a lot and let a little out on the way down. Eventually, bombing down a trail that is mostly small pebbles with random large rocks, the tube pinch flatted at high speed (20-25 mph) and caused me to walk about 1.5 miles out. I am COMPLETELY unimpressed by the 2.25 NN pacestar:madman: The 2.35 with snakeskin may be better, but I'm not willing to spend anymore money to try it.

When I got home I found a tear/hole in the HD on the front just inside one of the outer knobs. :skep: I did bomb down trails full of rock gardens to see what these could take and I'm impressed with the HD, but now not sure the they can take the desert abuse. I think I'm going to super glue the hole and keep riding it. I didn't lose any air, just noticed it covered in Stan's and dirt.

About 5 miles in the climb
Bicycle Wheel Tire Plant Mountain

Hole in NN sidewall climbing through rocky tech section at 7 miles
Tire Wheel Bicycle tire Automotive tire Plant

Hole in casing of HD 2.35 trailstar
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive lighting

Light Automotive tire Finger Material property Rim
 
#29 ·
So you pinched while bombing down on a repair and you blame the tire? ooookay

We've also got plenty of desert trails here in Idaho. Lots of scree fields to cross and plenty of quartzite rocks just waiting to take a stab at your sidewalls, which is why I run reinforced (e.g., Schwalbe's SnakeSkin or Conti's ProTection). I've gotten away with less, but one bad line or lazy moment is all it takes. For the most part, however, sidewall tears are preventable.

Sucks about the knobs on your Hans Dampf. I had some Conti X-Kings do that last year (think they had a batch of brittle rubber). Sure hope the Hans Dampf I'm running up front doesn't do the same.
 
#30 ·
No, I'm not blaming the tire, just the fact that airing it up to a PSI that wouldn't pinch flat felt too harsh so I had to let some air out and it got squirmy at 26 mph floating through a rocky section of the last descent. Just no sweet spot, because the 2.25 is not high volume and I weigh over 200 lbs geared up. Any time I try something lighter here in the Sonoran, it bites me in the A$$, no pun intended. I threw some super glue in the hole, which was already sealed with Stan's, so I think it will be fine. I just hope the HD SG I put on the front of my Session doesn't come apart that way also.

MTB Pilot, great post but I have some questions so I can update my thread here (http://forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/27-5-tire-size-reference-833399.html)...

From the pic it appears that the 2.35 Nevegal is wider than the 2.35 HD - can you confirm?

Can you compare the diameter and width of these tires with the Neo-Moto and Ardent and confirm for me whether I need to make some adjustments in my tire size reference thread?

Fred
Since the NN has been relieved of duty, the Ardent is back on after a tubeless patch on the 1/8 inch hole in the casing. Here is what I measured. It's not HUGE, but tall and really high volume. This tire I can run at 28-30 PSI on the back and no problems bottoming out or squirming. It's a fast roller and a really balanced amount of grip for braking and climbing.

Knob width
Tire Wheel Bicycle tire Automotive tire Vehicle

Casing width
Wheel Tire Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel Automotive tire

A little more than an 1/8 of inch short of 28
Building Automotive tire Rectangle Tire Wood
 
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