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  1. #201
    Sail On!
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    I'll bet the El Santo will work really well with the lowish BB and the fact it is a somewhat twitchy race bike the 650B wheels should smooth out the handling.
    Another possibility is I saw a BMC Fourstroke 03 at the trailhead last weekend and it had loads of clearance at the chainstay and seatstay. Anybody try this one? Cheers!

  2. #202
    Long live long rides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube
    Chad at Soul THINKs the 1st GEN Hooligan would work, but theres no way to tell until you try. I'm thinking about getting a 08, GEN 2 Hooligan to test out. I like this because it has the EBB which can be set at it's lowest point so the BB doesn't raise up so much with the wheel size difference. Also, the GEN2 has a geared option. I'll play with my VooDoo Bokor for now, then move onto the Hooligan. As for the Minute 2:00 thatsa no-go for B'rs.
    I put a 700c cross wheel in the rear triangle of a 2007 model & that had some clearance. I figure that means a 650b SHOULD be cool. I will let ya'll know as soon as I do.

  3. #203
    nothing relevant to say
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    Hopefully you used a 700x42, or something close to that, because a 700x32 doesn't have the same OD.

  4. #204
    Long live long rides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube
    Hopefully you used a 700x42, or something close to that, because a 700x32 doesn't have the same OD.
    What does OD mean?

    I put a 700x35 in... my friend has a 650b wheel that I can borrow to do an actual fitting before I go too far into this project, however if this frame does not fit I think I am going to have to find one that will.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life and Liberty
    What does OD mean?
    Outside Diameter.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  6. #206
    I have red hair
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    I don't wanna be a thread troll or anything, but the Redline 26er works well with 650B wheels. My buddy has one and loves the way it handles over the 26" wheel. Sorry if someone has already posted this one...

  7. #207
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    09 Intense Tracer

    Will the 09 tracer fit 650b neo-moto rear? thanks

  8. #208
    Don't Stop Spinnin'!
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    I read almost this whole thread, and I might have missed it... but, does anyone know if a 650b will fit a RS Sid? I have a 06' Team laying around, with a 2001 Schwinn Homegrown Pro frame next to it and I wanted to make a little side project. Will these two work?


    EDIT: Disregard... It's a go! Fits perfect!
    Last edited by ReD_tomato; 03-12-2009 at 04:35 PM.
    ~every end is a new beginning...

  9. #209
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    2008 Stumpjumper FSR Pro Carbon with 650b wheels

    Check out this blog... some good pics here:

    http://bigdaddymikesblog.blogspot.com/

    Cheers,

    KP
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  10. #210
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    Jamis Dragon Team?

    Sorry if this is a duplicate - I thought I already posted but couldn't find it.

    Has anyone tried the Dragon or does anyone have the ability to test the setup for clearance? I currrently have Geax Sedona 2.25s (very large profile for a 26") and there is a lot of clearance. Can't imagine the incremental radius of the 650B setup being that much larger.
    Actually, if the Sedonas were still available I wouldn't even be looking into the 650. They already provide greatly improved rollover compared to any other 26" tire of comparable weight that I've tried.

  11. #211
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    add another

    put Canfield's Balance on the list


  12. #212
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Nony Moose
    put Canfield's Balance on the list

    pics!?
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  13. #213
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    The Kona Humu 3-bar cruiser should work.

    The rear will fit a 50mm WTB 29er with the wheel all the way back in the dropouts.
    Not sure about 650B clearance in the Project 2 fork, but an alternative is the Surly 1x1.
    Very similar geometry to the P2 bit with *JUST* enough crown clearance for a 50mm 29er.

    There was also a "disc only" Humu Deluxe for 1 year, that used sliders.
    Basically the same geometry as the Unit frame, which somebody has already listed as 650B-able.

  14. #214
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    Add the Brodie Cruzado (Titanium) and Catalyst (Tange steel) frames to the list. Sorry no photographs but both frames cleared with plenty of space (chainstay and seatstay bridges) using a 2.1 Kenda Nevagal on a Blunt rim. I'm sure the other bikes in the lightening range of Brodies will also fit (Fury/Bandit/Tempyst/Force....these frames may make a cheap build).
    When the tax refund comes in and I get the Cruzado I'll post pics

  15. #215
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    Marin Mt. Vision 2006, Neo with room to spare

    Marin Mt. Vision 2006, Neo-Moto 2.3 or Nevegal 2.1 with room to spare
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Rillburgher; 04-20-2009 at 06:35 PM.

  16. #216
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    Marin B Vision 2006 report

    Obviously tons of space for 650B, clearance is not an issue in any dimension. Now that I've ridden maybe 10 times, here's my personal impressions.

    In short, four inches of rear travel plus nearly five up front, plus 650B, is a lot of terrain flattening capacity. The combo of Nevegal 2.1 rear and Neo 2.3 up front, both run tubeless, provides huge traction in turning and climbing. Front braking is also great. Rear is still skidsville. The converted Marin handles much like it did with 26, only it won't wash out in a corner so easily, and you really need to twist HARD to get that rear to square off a turn.


    For those of you who love the long story, please read on.

    Blah blah blah musings...
    I didn't feel the need to change suspension settings when converting from 26 to 650B.
    As claimed, the 650Bs soak up more trail chatter, especially up front.
    The additional traction, in what I'll call 'torsion' or lateral traction, while turning, tries to twist the frame and fork. The Marin is stiff enough, but some bikes that feel flexy with 26 are really going to get loose with 650B conversion.
    For my skill set, the bike can handle more speed through turns converted to 650B; just more grip and more solidly planted.
    The converted bike is easier to manual and wheelie, due to additional wheel weight? contact patch?

    Riding back to back to back experiences...
    I rode my home trail first with tubes and then tubeless.
    The Neo with tube is quite stable, I'd call it gravity friendly. By that I mean that you can charge braking bumps or a sidehill without the tire, as a front, catching on bumps and trying to carve away from your line, or slipping below your chosen line. Hi or low in the travel, it stays steady. In the rear, the Neo with tube feels solid and welcomes a gravity assist. Tubeless, the Neo gets more lively and lighter at the pedals, but still handles very steadily. The Nevegal with tubes is more sensitive to terrain in front than the Neo. Tubeless, it will grip like mad, but is reactive enough to possibly tug you off line, say hammering down a choppy sidehill, Tubed in rear was a bit dull pedaling, and as expected lightened up tubeless. The tubeless set up with Neo front and Nevegal rear would be my first choice to ride rugged trails, or unfamiliar trails, but it's a bit much for easy stuff.

    Un-converting is revealing...
    I headed to a local sweet spot with mild rolling tight-turning singletrack not unlike an XC race course (probably more roots than average). The rear nevegal was super locked-up on the climbs and turn after turn flowed by as the bike could be railed and didn't dally switching edges. Things were great, but things were going to get interesting. I replaced the rear with my old light hyperfast Stan's Olympic with Kenda Karma converted to tubeless 26" on the back, and wound the Talas fork down an inch. Woah! Screaming fast. I guess the 650B nevegal was sucking up some speed. I jammed the same stretch of trail, faster in the pedally parts. But, also a bit closer to the limits. Because the rear end would slide around now, I could also stuff the bike into corners and square corners off at will. The bike didn't come off the rails, because the Neo up front can really show the way, and it did flick from corner to corner in a lighter easier manner. 26 rear Neo front, was the hot ticket for this mild, twisty speedy trail, because the Karma is FAST and the 4" rear suspension kept the roots at bay. So, if one 26 wheel is great for this trail, how 'bout two? Things got interesting again. My front 26 wheel is Stan's Olympic with a converted Nevegal 2.1 Sticky, generally awesome stuff. Wound the Talas back to max travel, and... GAACK, it was HORRIBLE. The front wheel that I had always loved was pretty bad compared to the Neo. Every bump seemed doubled (and I ran soft, about 25 lbs pressure tubeless). The grip was way off, and yet this is one of the best gripping tires in 26 that I've ever run. The bike ran shockingly rough in comparison to with a killer b front wheel! After the initial yuck, I got serious, and revved things up and charged the same trail sections as before. The flow came and I was doing about the max I can muster, life was good, the trees were blurred. And then, wham, it happened, the front pushed in a turn, lost grip, and I wrecked. In a half dozen times through the same turn with the Neo on front, no problem or hint. 26 was for that turn, that moment, my bike, and me, definitely inferior to 650B.

    My last ride was in the rain, just to see... and things were fine. The converted bike is better, but wet roots and shale are wet roots and shale.

    The Marin "B" Vision is a really good project. If you have the same frame, give it a try. The current suspension bikes from Marin look promising. And, when selecting a full suspended conversion project, recognize that the 650B wheels will make the frame and fork feel more flexy than with 26 wheels.

    Hats off to KP! I can't see running a front 26 wheel anymore, and even on my conversion, the rear 650B has all around better trail qualities. I can't wait to get a Quasi or Neo 2.1 for the rear for the speedy XC pedaling.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Pic of my Salsa. It is as if it was made for 650B.
    Attachment 330167
    Rides well
    so this fit's the 2.3's with no problem's?

    dave

  18. #218
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    tube or tubless

    Is anyone having issues with their rear-end being scwurmy. I'm about 210lbs and never have problems with tubless on other bikes. I'm running a FS bike with nevegal 2.3 up front & 2.1 in the rear, on notubes 355. Does Neo-moto work better tubless? Should I throw tubes in? The front seems great.

  19. #219
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    Hi speed or low? I feel some rear wheel and swingarm flex with a Nevegal 2.1 run tubeless on rear wheel, but it is only a pronounced sensation at slow grinding speed. It sorts out with some speed and momentum... I guess the flex is still there, but the rear wheel plays follow-the-leader nicely with a head of steam and becomes super solid carver. Thinking about that slow speed sensation... it seems the tire's soft sticky shoulder tread blocks are really reactive to terrain and really grippy in the 650B 2.1 version of the Nevegal, perhaps the slightly longer contact patch is to thank / blame. I like it on balance, because the sensation you're reporting comes from a surplus of traction not a deficit.

  20. #220
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    My Brodie 1-Ball 650B Compatible 26er

    Greetings 2 all
    I recently built-up a 650b Salsa FS, and then I converted my 1987 Mountain Goat Whiskytown Racer HT (disc tabs/cable guides by Sycip), but I wanted yet 1 more 650b ride. I decided to build up a single speed racer based on the Brodie 1 ball frame that I purchased direct from Brodie.

    Bike built up nice and easy but I'm still messing with the rear gearing while waiting for the Hive to send out my fifteenG SS crankset
    As you can probably tell, I have yet to cut/bleed the lines on the new Avid Elixir brakes (just took the out of box/mounted at time of pics).
    Wheels: Blunt rims-White Industries hubs (F&R)/DT Super Comp spokes w/gold alum nips)-Neo Moto tires (F&R)-White Industries DOS Freewheel 17/19
    Crank/Chainring: Crank Bros w/Spot 36t ring + SS Guard
    Chain: Wippermann ConneX-9s1
    Fork: RS Duke Race w U-Turn
    Everyone can probably make out the rest of the components (from pics) so I'm not going to bother to list them all since they have little to do with building a 650B SS
    Best Regards
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by umassracer; 05-10-2009 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Pic Upload

  21. #221
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    I like your little Quasimodo on the stem!

  22. #222
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    Assracer, I think your front tire's mounted backwards....

  23. #223
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    Saweeet!

    Absolutely gorgeous bike!





    Mr. Moose is right, though regarding the front tire.

  24. #224
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    So has it ever been determined if the 08/09 Stumpjumper FSR's can run a 650b on the rear? I really want to order up a set of wheels, but would like to know if it works. I've been using the search function for the last hour and have not seen a stumpy yet with the setup.

  25. #225
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    Your dynamic grasp on the obvious truly amazes me, but if you actually ventured away from your local rail-tail, you would realize that many tires will not wind-up or corner properly if mounted in the direction indicated on tire (ever run Michelin XC Pros after following the discretional arrows?). The Neo Moto, when mounted "improperly"on this SS, accelerated/cornered much better.

  26. #226
    Eating Hot Pockets
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    Quote Originally Posted by umassracer
    The Neo Moto, when mounted "improperly"on this SS, accelerated/cornered much better.
    that's because you were going so slow, you were actually moving BACKWARDS

    enjoy your 1 ball



  27. #227
    Ovaries on the Outside
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    For everyone that probably doesn't care- I have an '89 Rockhopper with a Kenda 2.1 in the back and a Kenda 2.35 in the front. With the back tire alllll the way back, there is a couple mm on each side. The fork has similar clearance, so as soon as I hit mud or have a tire go out of true I'm up the creek. Maybe. Anyway, vintage bikes totally have room for a 650b 2.1 in the front and a 26" in the back.

    I can post a review after I knock out some actual trail miles if there is interest.

  28. #228
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    08-09 Stumpjumper FSR 650B?

    Well my post seemed to disappear so I will ask again. Has anyone confirmed the 08-09 Stumpy FSR's fit 650B's. I would really love to make the swap on my 09 SJ Comp to help out with the lovely Arizona terrain, but don't want to spend the $$ unless it works.

  29. #229
    San Diego County
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    Quote Originally Posted by umassracer
    Your dynamic grasp on the obvious truly amazes me,
    Ya, whatever. I would sure like to give that bike a ride Looks good.

  30. #230
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    [QUOTE=Cracked Headtube]Ok, so I'm going to update this thread, in one post. Get all the convertable frames consolidated, if you will.

    dot dot dot

    Santa Cruz Chameleon, horizontal dropouts (2.1" and smaller recommended)
    Santa Cruz Heckler
    Santa Cruz Bullet
    Santa Cruz BLT2

    QUOTE]

    Anyone able to say if the 2005/6 heckler will work? getting a custom 29er built but may change it 650b and get dual duty from the wheelset

  31. #231
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    Add the 2004 Med. 5" FS Weyless XP (Supergo Heckler Clone) to the list, Its as if this bike was designed around them? (I have compressed both front and rear suspension TO THE MAX, NO RUBS! ... (QBP Handspun Velocity Blunts on XT disc hubs, Quasi-Moto tires 2.0)




    Last edited by Morpheous; 05-29-2009 at 05:10 PM.
    2015 Budnitz MTB Ti Limited 650B
    2015 Surly Instigator 2.0 26+/27.5+

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Ark
    I could be mistaken, but isn't Haro working on at least 1 650b FS?
    Yes, but Todd at The Sportsman in Logan UT called Haro today. Todd said the Haro 650B FS is in prototype form only at this moment; maybe still a year off to releasel. Bummer. I would have tossed down a deposit today otherwise.

    The other mass-producer alleged to be working on 650B FS is Jamis; Dealer Wimmer said he'd ask the distributor about it next week.

    Is my assumption correct that any FS 29er will handle dual 650B?

    Any FS bikes (other than 29ers) handle 650B front/rear?

    Any custom FS frames handle 650B rear? (Sorry, have not checked if there's even such thing as a custom FS frame.)

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro7939
    Yes, but Todd at The Sportsman in Logan UT called Haro today. Todd said the Haro 650B FS is in prototype form only at this moment; maybe still a year off to releasel. Bummer. I would have tossed down a deposit today otherwise.

    The other mass-producer alleged to be working on 650B FS is Jamis; Dealer Wimmer said he'd ask the distributor about it next week.

    Is my assumption correct that any FS 29er will handle dual 650B?

    Any FS bikes (other than 29ers) handle 650B front/rear?

    Any custom FS frames handle 650B rear? (Sorry, have not checked if there's even such thing as a custom FS frame.)

    You can do 650B on the existing Haro FS Trailbike frame(XEON)

    The Jamis FS 650B exists, it was at sea otter.

    Yes on your 29er question, but the Geo is wierded with that config.

    Santa Cruz Heckler and My Weyless (Clone)both will take 650B F/R and ad 5" bikes.

    Not sure on Customs. Ventana and Moots I think are on it?
    2015 Budnitz MTB Ti Limited 650B
    2015 Surly Instigator 2.0 26+/27.5+

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheous
    You can do 650B on the existing Haro FS Trailbike frame(XEON)

    The Jamis FS 650B exists, it was at sea otter.

    Yes on your 29er question, but the Geo is wierded with that config.

    Santa Cruz Heckler and My Weyless (Clone)both will take 650B F/R and ad 5" bikes.

    Not sure on Customs. Ventana and Moots I think are on it?
    Morpheus
    Thanks for the tips!

    Haro's website, under "All-Mtn/Freeride" lists two Xeons:
    http://www.harobikes.com/mtb/tab2_subNav1.php
    Xeon Comp $2500 &
    Xeon $2k
    Will both accept F/R 650B? Have you tried or seen the retrofit?

    Indeed, here is Jamis rep showing the M.Y. 2010 5"-travel FS 650B (maybe my next bike; video is on right close to top) http://www.bikeradar.com/?clipId=1441

    To confirm: Canondale Rush 3 Carbon will accept F/R 650B as is/stock? If yes, a used XL sample of this bike may be the only thing keeping me from the new Jamis FS 650B.

    I'm probably very wrong but would take a resonable bet that within about five years the 650B rage may make 26 or 29 models extinct beyond the Wal Mart price category, where 26ers will be relegated...29ers being completely non-existent. But of course there are marketing & other forces at hand...it took about six years for BMW to ditch the oawful original I-drive (finally admitting it was completely unacceptable by any known standard).

  35. #235
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    Rotwild David Ergon Team

    Hey

    Look at the frame from Dave, its a Rotwild bike (German Brand)

    Last edited by gabee; 06-01-2009 at 10:30 AM.

  36. #236
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    Will C'dale Rush 6 accpet F/R 650b?

    Subject says it all.

  37. #237
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    ... and if we just ... Cannondale Prophet

    Works well on a c'dale prophet, just need the spacer in the lefty. Bike is a bullet with the bigger wheels.
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  38. #238
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    I thought the Lefty 110 mm did not need the spacer with a 650b, only if you run a 29er up front

  39. #239
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    God willing, early the week of 21 June an '08 Specialized Carbon Epic Expert will arrive for 650b retrofit. Will report proceedings to class ASAP.

    Per member "TNC”:
    '06-'08 carbon Epics fit 2.35 Neo Motos no problem...
    TNC saw plenty of clearance on a 650b-equipped '07 Epic Carbon in his shop (that is the only Epic/650b w/ which he has personal experience). A Specialized forum poster is 80%-90% sure the '08 frame is unchanged. Shop person packing the bike estimates plenty of clearance for 650b. Keeping fingers crossed but all indications are optimistic for clearance & no known nay-sayers.

    An '09 Epic Expert ("lowly" aluminum...just kidding) was a lots of fun on pavement only; the Carbon & 650b retrofit should be all good in the Wasatch Range. I'm age 55 & will take all the help I can get!
    Last edited by ro7939; 06-13-2009 at 05:09 PM.

  40. #240
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    I am running a 130 Max on the prophet, and yes definitely needed the spacer. Would assume the same is true on the 110, as they put 30mm in for 80 that is used with the 29". Really easy to check, either remove the spring or reduce the pressure and the compress the shock to the stops. It will either hit the stops or the wheel bottom out on the steered tube bracket.

  41. #241
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    I had narrowed my choice to the Epic Carbon mentioned above or a C'dale Rush Carbon. I bought the Epic, which was the first XL to appear at a good price. My height was an advantage; it would have sold earlier if it was a S, M or L.

  42. #242
    gears weigh too much
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    [QUOTE=Rillburgher] The combo of Nevegal 2.1 rear and Neo 2.3 up front, both run tubeless, provides huge traction in turning and climbing. [QUOTE]
    Am I missing some thing?
    There's a Kenda Nevegal 650B?

  43. #243
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    I've got a Nevegal 27.5 x 2.1 that is riding very well tubeless on Stan's 355 rim. Looks like 2.35 and other models are coming available too.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5/just-kenda-nevegal-27-5x2-10-2-35-%5Bo%5D-525431.html#post5767372

  44. #244
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    650b yes: '08 Specialized Epic Carbon

    My used like new bike described above arrived today; OH soooo VERY sweeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!

    Sorted out a few minor problems & will finally get to ride the Bonneville Shoreline Trail (runs N-S on the W foothill of the Wasatch Range, E border of Cache Valley UT) tomale morning. Frankly, after riding a couple of blocks on badly rutted dirt & a couple miles on pavement, the bike is so much faster than my FSR Stumpy that I might delay the 650b wheelset upgrade till next season. Truly, it is so much fun it reminds me more than anything else of the first time I learned to ride.

    I was flying much faster than ever before in the dirt; so much so that I did (or could) not see a huge rut; the bike jerked & my right foot flew off the pedal, a rare occurence for me. The shocking part was that the bike didn't miss a beat & just kept flying till my mind caught up w/ it & I continued pedaling. I have never flown up hills like this before.

    Eyeball test says way plenty clearance for +1/2" greater radius of 650b; even the 2.3 Neo Moto should have plenty of clearance.

    The '08 Epic has the shock mounted on the seat stays, not forward mounted as per current '09, which at the Specialized dealer appears to LACK clearance for rear 650b (front maybe).
    Last edited by ro7939; 06-24-2009 at 09:26 PM.

  45. #245
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    Jamis Exile

    Wanted to build up a 650B single speed and Jenson's is selling Jamis Exiles for cheap. It will fit a Quasi-Moto 2.0" without any trouble. Unfortunately, I want to run a Neo-Moto 2.3" and I don't think there is going to be enough room. Looks like I will try and find a Surly 1X1.
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  46. #246
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    Soma 4one5

    Does anyone know if a Soma 4one5 will fit a 2.3" Neo-Moto 2.3?

    Thanks

  47. #247
    nothing relevant to say
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    rather B: where was the axle positioned in the horizontal dropout when that photo was taken? any clue?

  48. #248
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    Don't know how similar the Exile and Dragon frame dimensions are but for what it's worth, I just installed a set of American Classic wheels and Neo Motos on a 2007 Jamis Dragon Team. With the big cornnering lugs on the Neo's, the clearances between the outside tips of those lugs and the insides of the seat stays and chain stays is about 4mm. The clearance at the bridge across the seat stays is a lot better. I know that others have suggested shaving off some of the cornering lug material and that would definitely help but I just don't like doing that.
    I rode them on nearly dry trails and loved the feel. I don't race so I don't have to ride in the mud but if I do, I'll either take another bike or put the 26" wheels back on for that ride.
    My Dragon was bought as a frameset rather than a built-up bike and I know for a fact (confirmed by Jamis) that the two had slightly different geometries in 2007. It's a long story that I won't bore you with but if anyone is keenly interested, drop me a mail and I'll explain. I don't think the differences (mainly in the length of the head tube and related angles) would affect the clearances at the stays but I'm not certain.
    As an aside (I know it's supposed to go in the fork forum) the 2006 Manitou 100mm R7 that I have on the Dragon also gives about 4mm clearance at the arch and there is absolutley no issue with crown clearance with the air relieved and fork fully compressed.

  49. #249
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    Jamis Exile & Dragon

    You'll see this as a separate post also as I thought that I was sending it out as a reply to the Jamis Exile Post. Anyhow, I'm doing it again with the correct title so that you definitley see it.

    Don't know how similar the Exile and Dragon frame dimensions are but for what it's worth, I just installed a set of American Classic wheels and Neo Motos on a 2007 Jamis Dragon Team. With the big cornnering lugs on the Neo's, the clearances between the outside tips of those lugs and the insides of the seat stays and chain stays is about 4mm. The clearance at the bridge across the seat stays is a lot better. I know that others have suggested shaving off some of the cornering lug material and that would definitely help but I just don't like doing that.
    I rode them on nearly dry trails and loved the feel. I don't race so I don't have to ride in the mud but if I do, I'll either take another bike or put the 26" wheels back on for that ride.
    My Dragon was bought as a frameset rather than a built-up bike and I know for a fact (confirmed by Jamis) that the two had slightly different geometries in 2007. It's a long story that I won't bore you with but if anyone is keenly interested, drop me a mail and I'll explain. I don't think the differences (mainly in the length of the head tube and related angles) would affect the clearances at the stays but I'm not certain.
    As an aside (I know it's supposed to go in the fork forum) the 2006 Manitou 100mm R7 that I have on the Dragon also gives about 4mm clearance at the arch and there is absolutley no issue with crown clearance with the air relieved and fork fully compressed

  50. #250
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    Jamis Exile

    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube
    rather B: where was the axle positioned in the horizontal dropout when that photo was taken? any clue?
    I don't have my rear wheel built up yet so I was using a front 650B wheel that I have. I had the axle right in the center of the horizontal dropouts. I remember seeing somewhere the measurement of the Neo-Moto is 58mm give or take 3mm so it may fit but it would be really close.

  51. #251
    Don't Stop Spinnin'!
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    2001 Schwinn Homegrown pro.... (06' RS Sid)




    ~every end is a new beginning...

  52. #252
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    Anyone know if the Giant XTC 2006 + models will work with 650 b front and rear

  53. #253
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    What FS to buy?

    I am in the market to buy a new frame and cannot decide on which frame. I'm looking at a Ventana El Bastardo, Ibis Mojo SL, or Santa Cruz Blur LTc. I beleive all are 650b compatible and have a 140mm of rear travel. What are the major differances in these bikes? I am not the kind a of person that is going to hit 3 foot drops, but here in AZ the terrain can get nasty.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by alien too
    I am in the market to buy a new frame and cannot decide on which frame. I'm looking at a Ventana El Bastardo, Ibis Mojo SL, or Santa Cruz Blur LTc. I beleive all are 650b compatible and have a 140mm of rear travel. What are the major differances in these bikes? I am not the kind a of person that is going to hit 3 foot drops, but here in AZ the terrain can get nasty.
    One of them was built specifically for 650b (Ventana) and the other two just happen to work.

  55. #255
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    Rear 650b wheel and tire on a Iron Horse Azure ?

    Has anyone tried to fit a Rear 650b wheel and tire on a Iron Horse Azure ?

    Thanks
    Nir

  56. #256
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    I'm probably going to buy a used Jamis durango frame in the next few days for $50 to see if it fits. From the pictures of the frame (14" size) it doesn't appear to have a chainstay bridge tube behind the BB shell, which should leave plenty of room for the radius of a neo-moto.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  57. #257
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    Specialized Pitch Pro 08, Neo-Moto rear

    I displaced this post, I belive..

    I checked my pitch 08 with the neo-moto on ZTR 355.
    With plenty of space for this tire/rim combination, I decided to order a pair of blunts, and will be riding neo rear and nevegal 2.35 front. I have a RS pike coil, which came with the bike. From what I can judge the pike will accept the nevegal 2.35 without problems.

    The tires and rims will be shipped from the US to Norway. Receive the tires and rims within 2 weeks (I hope), will post some pictures as soon as I am done building the wheels.

    guls
    Last edited by gulprincipia; 07-15-2009 at 08:06 AM. Reason: displaced post

  58. #258
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    Good job! Specialized Pitch Pro, Neo-Moto rear, no prob...

    I checked my pitch 08 with the neo-moto on ZTR 355.
    With plenty of space for this tire/rim combination, decided to order a pair of blunts, and will be riding neo rear and nevegal 2.35 front. I have a RS pike coil, which came with the bike. From what I can judge the pike will accept the nevegal 2.35 without problems.

    The tires and rims will be shipped from the US to Norway. Receive the tires and rims within 2 weeks (I hope), will post some pictures as soon as I am done building the wheels.

    guls

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob H.
    I thought the Lefty 110 mm did not need the spacer with a 650b, only if you run a 29er up front
    I can verify that a DLR2 does not require a spacer.

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro7939
    Subject says it all.
    Depends on year. 2007 and below with a lefty yes. 2008 and later require the removal of the swingarm brace.

  61. #261
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    Turner Bikes?

    Any word on compatiblity of:

    08 flux tnt
    08 spot tnt
    09 flux dw
    09 spot dw

  62. #262
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    Will 650b fit any of the below?
    2007 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Pro Carbon XL
    2008 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Pro Carbon XL
    2009 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Expert Carbon XL

    TIA!

    jimbo

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReD_tomato
    This is encouraging.

    I've got a Moab 69er which I'm considering turning into a 650B bike. I admit it's no Homegrown, but there may be similarities in the geometry. What's the chainstay length on your Homegrown?

    Would you mind posting photos of the rear tire clearance in the chainstay-BB area? I'd very much appreciate it.
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  64. #264
    The White Jeff W
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    Check out this Transition Trans AM. Looks promising for an AM 650B conversion, no?

    http://www.transitionbikes.com/2007/TransAM.cfm

    Sliding drop outs

    http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/sho...hp/photo/10782


    Looks like plenty of clearance at the seatstay. They claim it 'easily fits up to 2.5" rear tire'.

    No moss...

  65. #265
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    One apparently highly authoritative source quoted 26" radiuis + 1/2" = 650b. 26" radius = 13" + 1/2" = 13-1/2" radius x2 = 27" diameter for 650b.

    Haro's 2009 catalog lists wo unsuspended 650b MTB w/ "27-1/2 wheel diameter" (exactly half-way between 26 & 29).

    Lucy 'splain! Above data mutually exclusive.

    This is not academic but rather may spell the differenece between fitting & not fitting.

  66. #266
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro7939
    One apparently highly authoritative source quoted 26" radiuis + 1/2" = 650b. 26" radius = 13" + 1/2" = 13-1/2" radius x2 = 27" diameter for 650b.

    Haro's 2009 catalog lists wo unsuspended 650b MTB w/ "27-1/2 wheel diameter" (exactly half-way between 26 & 29).

    Lucy 'splain! Above data mutually exclusive.

    This is not academic but rather may spell the differenece between fitting & not fitting.
    ..the operative term in that sentence being "apparently"...

    Cheers,

    KP
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  67. #267
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    As Cracked Headtube reports, my '08 Specialized Epic Carbon Expert 100mm travel front/rear accepts 650b. My trail is so gnarly that I miss my heavier alloy Stumpy. Selling Epic for $2249.

    I'm 6-3, 34-1/2 inseam; fits OK but bordering small so my guesstimate is OK fit for 5-11 to 6-3.

    Shipping carton & packing material intact. Suggest local pro for packing. High-rez pics & details later in classifieds (gotta wash her up & kiss her goodbye).

    A Carbon FS 650b for the price of a new carbon frame + wheels. (BTW, '09 Epic does NOT accept 650b.)

  68. #268
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    as for the Turner 09 dw flux, the rear is a bit tight with 2.25 26 inch rear tires.
    I do have a 650b on the front though with a fox 100mm fork. took the head angle out
    to 70.5 degrees
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  69. #269
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    Hope SINISTER Mustang 650b Conversion?

    I was wondering if converting a Sinister Mustang to 650b would work, and so I tried it. Well...it didn't work with the stock rear drop outs, and so a after a brief conversation regarding wheel fit possibilities I borrowed my friend's Simon Bar 29er geared drops and switched out the original Mustang d-outs. After the Simon Bar swap the 650b tire worked (Sort of)

    Though I used Quasi-Moto tires, I was still forced to run the rear pressure at just under 30lb in order to keep tire from tubbing on seatstay bridge. The low pressure works fine for slower rides along the hilly/mushy/damp NE trails, but this weekend before heading to the NEMBA ride I'm going to install the lower volume 2.1 Interloc FireXC Pro in hopes of gaining more clearance in the 38psi range.

    Oh well...This evening I will post some pics of the converted bike and I will update this thread after trying out the IRD rear tire for fit + overall ride functionality. If the IRD works on the rear of my Stang, I'm going to swap out the front and the Quasi-Moto's will need to find a new home along with the crappy Judy SL Fork (Fox will be substituted now that I know the 650b conversion took)

    *UPDATE* The Fire XC Pro was installed on rear wheel this evening and it gave a good deal more tire clearance @ seatstay bridge. Pics with Fire XC Pro should be up soon
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    Last edited by umassracer; 08-13-2009 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Pics Added

  70. #270
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    Please do post up pics of the 650b Mustang. Also can you double check and confirm fit on a Ridge? Sounds like you know a few people with Sinisters - surely one of them must have a Ridge no?

    Cheers,

    Mark

  71. #271
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    Ridge 650b candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Please do post up pics of the 650b Mustang. Also can you double check and confirm fit on a Ridge? Sounds like you know a few people with Sinisters - surely one of them must have a Ridge no?

    Cheers,

    Mark

    Hey Mark,
    The Sinister riders that I know have several DNAs, but I will need to ask around about a Ridge. Hopefully that owner (if I find one) will allow me to hijack their rig for a weekend of 650b testing
    Regards
    Last edited by umassracer; 08-22-2009 at 08:48 PM.

  72. #272
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    Pitch B, Specialized Pitch with Velocity Blunt 650B

    Finally the bike is ready for some action
    The clearance to the rear triangle hasn't been giving any kinds of problems during my initial testing.

    MG
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  73. #273
    nothing relevant to say
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    Very rad bike!

  74. #274
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    That front tire, fork arch clearance scares the poop outta me. I don't think I'd want to ride around here with that little clearance.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    That front tire, fork arch clearance scares the poop outta me. I don't think I'd want to ride around here with that little clearance.
    yes, the troll killer is back. the F1 season is long and it keeps tk busy...

    mmcg why, why must you always pop-off with these negative one liners that add nothing to the conversation? fortunately, you only live vicariously through others and will never be put at risk by this close fitting fork and tire combination. besides whats to be scared of? having the poop scared out of you is probably a familiar feeling for a turd like yourself.

    que te vaya bien,

    tk
    Keeping the 650B forum hater free ever since 2008!

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by troll killer
    yes, the troll killer is back. the F1 season is long and it keeps tk busy...

    mmcg why, why must you always pop-off with these negative one liners that add nothing to the conversation? fortunately, you only live vicariously through others and will never be put at risk by this close fitting fork and tire combination. besides whats to be scared of? having the poop scared out of you is probably a familiar feeling for a turd like yourself.

    que te vaya bien,

    tk
    Welcome back buddy!

    Where have ya been? Formula 1 racing? wow - cool stuff. Must be nice to live life in the fast lane with all those fancy cars, and pretty women eh?


    I'm still not quite sure what your beef is with me, but as I've offered before, feel free to contact me privately or publicly with your "issues" that you have with me. Anytime you want to write, you can reach me at mmcg25@gmail.com.

    Cheers,

    Mark

  77. #277
    Sail On!
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    Back to the bike that Specialized Pitch looks awesome no clearance issues with the rear tire I can see. The 64 dollar question is how does it ride? That bike has a 14" high BB unsagged with a 26" wheel so it is even higher with 650B. Love to hear a ride report!

  78. #278
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulprincipia
    Finally the bike is ready for some action
    The clearance to the rear triangle hasn't been giving any kinds of problems during my initial testing.

    MG
    I agree with Jeremy; that bike is rad!

    The orange rims are sweet!

    Cheers,

    KP
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  79. #279
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    I think the bike is Rad too - I'd just opt for a Neomoto in front instead of the Nevegal is all. I guess I should have been more clear on that to appease the troll killer and all.

    I really think the Pitch is a hidden gem in the Big S lineup. Lotsa bang for the buck for those bikes.

  80. #280
    loud hubs save lives
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    I really think the Pitch is a hidden gem in the Big S lineup. Lotsa bang for the buck for those bikes.
    I have to agree with that ... I rented one at Bootleg during my bachelor party and was pretty impressed. Rode with the PP on until the big downhill at the end ... it was pretty tame for a solid AM bike throughout most of the ride.

    When we pointed downhill for the last few miles with the PP off and the seat down, it really begged for me to hurt myself.

    The BB didn't seem abnormally high to me, infact i had a few pedal strikes in the rocks ... that bike with 650s would absolutely rip ... i remember thinking that if i was on my 29er i would be going way too fast down the last couple miles of trail. they were all smooth and down, more momentum would be scary.

  81. #281
    The White Jeff W
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    There's a 650B Rocky Mountain Vertex on ebay so I assume that can be added to the list.

    http:/http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...1#ht_500wt_977
    No moss...

  82. #282
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    ***
    Last edited by gulprincipia; 08-25-2009 at 04:17 AM.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    I agree with Jeremy; that bike is rad!

    The orange rims are sweet!

    Cheers,

    KP
    Thanks guys,

    Now that I have had time to test the bike, I can confirm that the bigger wheels have improved the general impression of the bike. Not that the bike was boring before, but now I have even more confidence at high speeds, and slightly better BB clearance.

    The Neo-Moto also has surprisingly good grip. I started out by mounting it opposite the rolling direction, but turned it to the right direction as I believe and experience that I have the same amount of climbing traction.

    I am 186cm = 6.1 feet and the SP Pitch is size L. With the 650b wheels the proportions of the bike, feels and look more suitable.

    I am going to set up the rear tire as a ghetto tubeless, after having 2 occasions of snakebite within 20 minutes of my first ride (35psi). Currently I am running with tubes at 38-40psi rear, in the Norwegian woods that’s right on the limit with my 77kg = 170lbs.
    MG
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  84. #284
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulprincipia
    The Neo-Moto also has surprisingly good grip. I started out by mounting it opposite the rolling direction, but turned it to the right direction as I believe and experience that I have the same amount of climbing traction.
    MG

    gulprincipia,

    I think your comments are spot on. I have run the tire both ways and can feel no discernible difference in climbing traction. However, there is a marked improvement in braking with the tire running in the correct direction because the square edges bite more when the brakes are applied.

    Cheers,

    KP

    PS: You might consider looking into the new Velocity P35 rim. At 35mm wide it might suit the Pitch better as well as having a more tubeless friendly design.
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  85. #285
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    Riva 654 - FS 650B

    Finished my FS 650B last July and finally got it posted here. 100 in the back 120 in front. Kirk P got me started on this and here it is. Bike weighs 24.7 lbs with pedals and the 2.3 tires in front and 2.0 rear. The front triangle is Ti and Turner's 5 Spot in the back.
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  86. #286
    loud hubs save lives
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    that is awesome.

    is it based off of a stock tnt 5-spot? any geometry numbers?

  87. #287
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    That is one cool lookin bike!

  88. #288
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    Nice job

    Very nice!
    Looks great! Howzit ride?

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by sennaster
    that is awesome.

    is it based off of a stock tnt 5-spot? any geometry numbers?
    Head's 70.5 and 73.5 seat.

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by enFuego
    Very nice!
    Looks great! Howzit ride?
    Rides plush with the Turner rear end and the Pacenti tires with Stan's No Tubes on ZTR rims. The best way to describe the handling is that it's intuitive. Takes switch backs very well and very stable on fast descents. Saved my ass on an abrupt drop off that I did not expect last Saturday. The BB is 13.1" static.

    I could have just put 650B wheels on a frame that will fit but too many issues and it will just drive me nuts.

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    gulprincipia,


    PS: You might consider looking into the new Velocity P35 rim. At 35mm wide it might suit the Pitch better as well as having a more tubeless friendly design.
    I have already ordered a pair of P35
    My first thought was to have nevegals on the P35s and the Neos on the blunts, wet / dry setup. But, if the width of the P35 gives the extra volume and traction I am hoping for, I want to have the option to run them with the Neos as well.

    Therefore I will be experimenting with some ideas on alternative ways of ghetto tubeless setups; the goal is to make it easy to change tires within a tubeless setup.

    MG

  92. #292
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    Out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried (or heard of) a 650b FS Kona frame (ie, Four, One20, or Hei Hei)? I still have to find one in real life, but I can't seem to tell (from online pics) if it would fit the rear end.

    Thanks!

  93. #293
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    Cannondale people... I have a 08 Carbon Rush 2. I used a barrowed rear wheel to try. tire just hits the X brace. It is removable, I don't really know what its there for, but if I remove it I will be in business. I am sure its there for a reason.what do you guys think? I am 145lbs

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube
    Ok, so I'm going to update this thread, in one post. Get all the convertable frames consolidated, if you will.

    Azonic Revenge

    Bianchi SASS
    Bianchi Oetzi Carbon 2009 (only quasi-moto)

    BMC Team Elite 02, (2.1" and smaller)

    Cannondale Prophet (2007+ checked)
    Cannondale taurine
    Cannondale F3

    Carver 96er

    Gary Fisher Fat Possum
    Gary Fisher Tass.

    Gunnar Ruffian (older with horizontal dropouts)

    Haro Sonix LT
    Haro Xeon
    Haro Sonix VL120,(original Rear triangle) fits the Quasi Moto

    Ibex Atlas

    Ibis Mojo (2.1" and smaller recommended)

    K2 Factory
    K2 Apache 6.0

    Kona Unit (with sliders)
    KONA Coiler Series, (2007)
    Kona

    Marin Rift Zone
    Marin Wolf Ridge 05/06

    Mountain Cycle fury

    Novarra Method

    Surly 1x1, no confirmation but I'm sure the Pugsley would work too.

    Salsa Ala Carte

    Schwinn 01 Homegrown Ltd

    Scott Spark 30

    Sinister Ridge
    Sinister Splinter FS

    Specialized Enduro Elite (checked on 2007 model)
    Specialized Myka
    Specialized Carbon Epic, 2008
    Specialized S-Works Carbon HT

    Spooky Darkside

    Soul Cycles Titan
    Soul Cycles Icon
    Soul Cycles Hooligan G2

    Soma Groove (2.1" and smaller recommended)

    Santa Cruz Chameleon, horizontal dropouts (2.1" and smaller recommended)
    Santa Cruz Heckler
    Santa Cruz Bullet
    Santa Cruz BLT2

    Trek 930/950/970 1999 fit the QUASI-MOTO

    Ventana El Chamuco
    VooDoo Bokor (newer with sliders)
    VooDoo Wanga (newer with sliders)
    VooDoo Sobo (2.1" and smaller tire recommended)
    Does anyone know exactly what years of the Fisher Tass will fit a 650b? I found a 2004, but would like to make sure. Thanks

  95. #295
    clunker
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    2001 Titus SwitchBlade - some crappy cell pics from test fitment this weekend. No real rides yet but I will be taking it out tomorrow.

    Fork is 2003 TALAS 32 set 4 clicks from bottom (~ 92mm, 3mm per click), the rear link is in the 4.5" travel setting so should still be in the 70-70.2 HT angle range. Didn't measure BB height but seems to be close to factory specs for 4.5" rear/100mm front (~ 13") - can't beat an adjustable platform like the Switchblade for playing with wheels!



    TALAS with room to spare, running ~20 PSI higher to reduce chance of crown contact - looks to have more room than a current Fox fork.



    On a lark also tried the rear wheel with the 2.3 Neo Moto... and it fit! My only concern is the chance of contact with the shock at max travel.



    Lots of room in the stays, if I convert the rear (for now 26/650b) likely will run a 2.1 in back.


    ...strictly downhill...

  96. #296
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    titus switchblade

    I have a titus switchblade and have put my 650b in there, but had problems with
    the front der. rubbing tire in small ring. The fit looks like your photos, the 2.1 might
    work better for me. No test rides on this bike.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by moia
    I have a titus switchblade and have put my 650b in there, but had problems with
    the front der. rubbing tire in small ring. The fit looks like your photos, the 2.1 might
    work better for me. No test rides on this bike.
    I only run two rings in front so that might help also - 44T/29T.

    Took the Titus up the hill with the 650 in front, usually average 8MPH on the Titus and 10 MPH on my 29er hardtail...you guessed it, 9MPH average heart rate was also between my max on 26er and 29er. Too funny. PS the bike felt great, gonna slap some bits on that rear wheel and try it full 650.



    ...strictly downhill...

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb49
    I only run two rings in front so that might help also - 44T/29T.

    Took the Titus up the hill with the 650 in front, usually average 8MPH on the Titus and 10 MPH on my 29er hardtail...you guessed it, 9MPH average heart rate was also between my max on 26er and 29er. Too funny. PS the bike felt great, gonna slap some bits on that rear wheel and try it full 650.



    Do it to it!

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    gulprincipia,

    I think your comments are spot on. I have run the tire both ways and can feel no discernible difference in climbing traction. However, there is a marked improvement in braking with the tire running in the correct direction because the square edges bite more when the brakes are applied.

    Cheers,

    KP
    Kirk,

    I have been wondering about this as I switched to reverse direction in the rear as well, really for no reason. I figured the lack of ramping might grab rocks better in loose traction areas. Question; what purpose does the ramping to the knobs in the correct direction provide; what is the purpose of the ramping?

    One reason I ask is I like the Bontrager Jones as a rear tire in 26er and 29er (other than the thin walls, but I've found the traction to be awesome) which is basically small widely spaced knobs, a little similar to a Neo Moto in a backwards direction. I would imagine the ramping would somehow reduce rolling friction which is why they are so popular?

    Thanks,
    Andre

  100. #300
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    MotoB

    Here are some pics of my Titus Motolite 650b conversion.


    Its also for sale now.
    http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...ct=40084&cat=3

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