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  1. #1
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    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.

    I know it's minor and nit-picky but this is mildy annoying. Why couldn't Schwalbe just keep their naming 650b/27.5 straight instead of changing between the two? I know, I know, first world problems. Nic was purchased Dec '12 and the Hans was purchased June '13.


  2. #2
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    27.5 is becoming the norm for 650B because the latter is considered too confusing for many people coming into the sport. A lot of manufacturers are going in this direction.
    Get out and ride even when you don't want to because ten minutes into the ride you'll be glad you did.

  3. #3
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    Pretty far down the list of things I care about, just above worrying whether my socks match my hubs.

  4. #4
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    First world problem indeed.
    By the way - isn't "650b" more related to skinny touring bike tires with outside diameter of 650-660mm and 584mm ISO diameter? There's nothing "650" in fat, off-road 584mm ISO tires so calling them 27,5" makes much more sense IMO.

  5. #5
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    Well Schwalbe responded to me on Instagram and simply put, they made the change so the customer base would better understand this new tire size. I assume all new production tires going forward will be 27.5.

  6. #6
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    They should have called them "275-Bad" since that is about the mileage the side knobs begin to fall off.

  7. #7
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    The side knobs on my rear Nic are starting to tear and also starting to feel a bit squirrely under hard cornering. This is a bit disappointing considering I only have about 300 miles on the tire.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DYI01 View Post
    The side knobs on my rear Nic are starting to tear and also starting to feel a bit squirrely under hard cornering. This is a bit disappointing considering I only have about 300 miles on the tire.
    Yea,I'm with ya,nobby nicks and Hans dampf,have a very short life span! switched to Maxxis Highroller II's 2.4 and 2.3's superior in all categories!

  9. #9
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    I've been intrigued by Schwalbes with all the positive reviews, but after looking at the prices and being told by my trusted LBS that they're "5 Ride Tires", I decided to move along. I guess guys who ride nothing but loam once a week on the weekend might have lots to love, but they sound no bueno to a 6-day a week rock crawler.

  10. #10
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    The problem I have with moving away from the Nic is I haven't found another tire that rolls as good but also has the traction of this tire before the knobs start tearing. Schwalbe tires seem to hold up pretty well for me and a few friends as front tires but they get tore up as back tires. The Hans on the front is awesome the grip is amazing and rolls decently enough. The Ardent has a horrible dead spot mid lean, the High Rollers roll slow, the Nevegal rolls ungodly slow, I would like to try a NeoMoto though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DYI01 View Post
    The problem I have with moving away from the Nic is I haven't found another tire that rolls as good but also has the traction of this tire before the knobs start tearing. Schwalbe tires seem to hold up pretty well for me and a few friends as front tires but they get tore up as back tires. The Hans on the front is awesome the grip is amazing and rolls decently enough. The Ardent has a horrible dead spot mid lean, the High Rollers roll slow, the Nevegal rolls ungodly slow, I would like to try a NeoMoto though.
    I've got...about 5 rides on my rear Hans Dampf Pacestar TLR snakeskin, and Saturday, in Otero Canyon in NM coming down mixed loam/sand/limestone, I kept stopping thinking my rear was going flat because it was squirming all over, but it wasn't flat at all. After the ride, I took a close look at the tire, and...side knobs are starting to tear right at the base. They look like they're being undercut. Center knobs look fine - brand new even.

    The HD hooks up great on everything, but if I'm going to pay $65 ON SALE for a tire, I want the damn things to last a year, not 20 hours of riding. I much prefer Nevegals because they're way cheaper, and I don't seem to notice any difference in rolling resistance or traction while climbing, because I'm just a weekend warrior. I have a non-SCT/non-tubeless Nevegal on the front, with sealant, and it's working just fine, though I will wait for the SCT rear to come out because I have destroyed one on the rocks out here in NM due to the thin casing. Hopefully the HD will get me through the next month or so till something better comes along....

  12. #12
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    Try that HD out as a front tire, it's brilliant on the front. I have about 100 miles on my front and it still looks new. Prior to the HD I ran a Nevegal as well and the HD blows it out of the water IMO.

  13. #13
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    Anyone try those Ritchey Shield 27.5 tires?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    Anyone try those Ritchey Shield 27.5 tires?
    Pretty good hookup, light and fast rolling, but its a purely Xc dry tire for me. Practically a semi slick feel with all those tiny knobs so close together. Kinda like the conti race kings.
    SCB Nomad, SCB 5010v2, Turner RFX, Voodoo D-jab 650B, Voodoo Wazoo CX/commuter
    ...so far...

  15. #15
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    The HD is great as a front but using it as a rear on anything where you might climb stone / hard pack is just a bad idea. Also if you have hard pack braking bumps, bye bye tire. In my experience both Schwalbe and Conti tires, when used as rears, get f'd up super fast. One run down a local trail (the Luge in OC/SoCal) nearly destroys a hard compound RaRa. -_-

    Between Conti and Schwalbe I've had worse experience w/ conti (black chili compound x-kings). I've had really good luck w/ Maxis ikons EXOs (go figure) as a rear.

    Won't trust front tire duties to anything but HD's going forward. While a HR2 sounds nice, isn't that another 200grams over the HD? No thanks, HD is good enough.

  16. #16
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    Schwalbe are like the Michelin Sport Cups of car tires - great performance, expensive, with low life expectations.

    I love them so they are all that I buy. Nics up front with RaRa on the back. The perfect combo for me.

    On a side note, I did buy a Vredestein Black Panther Extreme recently and the tire felt pretty good. A bit heavy though.
    by Silentfoe
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  17. #17
    Just a flesh wound
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    , I would like to try a NeoMoto though.

    You should. Awesome tire. Great grip, tough and they handle well. I run 2.3 front and back at 25 and 28 psi, tubeless. Can't recommend them enough.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

  18. #18
    OMZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by probiscus View Post
    Won't trust front tire duties to anything but HD's going forward. While a HR2 sounds nice, isn't that another 200grams over the HD? No thanks, HD is good enough.
    More like 50-80 grams if you're comparing the 27.5 HD Snakeskin TLR in the 2.35 width to the 27.5 High Roller II EXO TR in the 2.3 width.

    Regardless of weight, I find the HR II, with it's ramped center knobs and slightly harder durometer rubber to be a noticeably faster roller than the HD. Stronger cornerer too (although I know that's kinda a personal thing.)

  19. #19
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    I've been intrigued by Schwalbes with all the positive reviews, but after looking at the prices and being told by my trusted LBS that they're "5 Ride Tires", I decided to move along.
    a) Buy online from Germany for half price delivered b) Do not listen to idiots in LBS.

    Win-win.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    a) Buy online from Germany for half price delivered b) Do not listen to idiots in LBS.

    Win-win.
    Problem is, they do wear out very quickly. I have around 300 miles (maybe less) on a HD 2.25 Trailstar SS and while the center knobs look fine, all the side knobs are "undercut" as if you took a box cutter and tried to slice them off at the base. $55/pair delivered from Deutschland is better than local US prices but still a little too much for such a short life IMO.

  21. #21
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    Hans Dampf's are not a great roller but HR II 2.3's roll better,last much longer and give nothing up to the HD in function.I also have the HR II 2.4 Maxx Terra and have used these on several Enduro and Super D events,what they lack in roll,and truthfully not that bad, they more then make up for in decent and knar!

  22. #22
    jrm
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    Thats 650 "A" which was the original french standard.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    a) Buy online from Germany for half price delivered b) Do not listen to idiots in LBS.

    Win-win.
    Germany Shmermany



    My LBS kicks ass. They ride, they're smart, the owner's in the MTB Hall of Fame, they help get trails built and support the local cycling culture better than any other entity around. The idiot is the one that ignores their advice.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMZ View Post
    More like 50-80 grams if you're comparing the 27.5 HD Snakeskin TLR in the 2.35 width to the 27.5 High Roller II EXO TR in the 2.3 width.

    Regardless of weight, I find the HR II, with it's ramped center knobs and slightly harder durometer rubber to be a noticeably faster roller than the HD. Stronger cornerer too (although I know that's kinda a personal thing.)
    Interesting.

    In 29er config:
    HD = 850-875
    HR2 = 941

    Regardless I'm looking forward to the new rock razor's for rears. Looks like an Ikon middle tread (small flatish knobs) with larger side knobs.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMZ View Post
    More like 50-80 grams if you're comparing the 27.5 HD Snakeskin TLR in the 2.35 width to the 27.5 High Roller II EXO TR in the 2.3 width.

    Regardless of weight, I find the HR II, with it's ramped center knobs and slightly harder durometer rubber to be a noticeably faster roller than the HD. Stronger cornerer too (although I know that's kinda a personal thing.)
    It is around 200 grams difference on the tires I have. The HD Snakeskin 2.35 is around 730 grams and the 2.3 HR2 EXO TLR was over 900.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Germany Shmermany



    My LBS kicks ass. They ride, they're smart, the owner's in the MTB Hall of Fame, they help get trails built and support the local cycling culture better than any other entity around. The idiot is the one that ignores their advice.
    Some are and some are not. Maybe you are lucky where you live. Just 3 months ago my LBS told me 27.5 was a fad and would die. Doesn't sound all that smart to me.
    by Silentfoe
    I'm satisfied knowing that what I wear during my "day" job makes me more of a man than you'll ever be.

  27. #27
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    I couldn't care less what they call it. As long as manufacturers continue to produce products in this size, I'm okay with it.
    Last edited by misterdangerpants; 08-14-2013 at 06:25 PM.

  28. #28
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    I don't recognize this description of Schwalbe tires at all. They're my absolute favorite brand, and I've ridden Big Bettys, Hans Dampfs, Racing Raplhs, Nobby Nics, Rocket Rons, Fat Freds , Kojaks and probably some more that I've forgotten in the last few years, without problems.

    That said; here in Norway/Europe, they're not more expensive than any other brand.

    I guess it comes down to that the same tires doesn't work for everybody. What works for one rider's trails/soil and riding style, might not for others

  29. #29
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    In any sane world they'd be marketed using their ETRTO or ISO size based on the bead seat diameter. We're discussing whether we should use an archaic French system or an archaic English measuring unit, neither of which remotely accurately describes the item being measured. Which is a bit bonkers.

  30. #30
    OMZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    It is around 200 grams difference on the tires I have. The HD Snakeskin 2.35 is around 730 grams and the 2.3 HR2 EXO TLR was over 900.
    Hmmm. The 27.5" 2.3 HR2 EXO TR on the front of my bike weighed 862g brand new. The 26" 2.35 HD Snakeskin TLR w/ Trailstar on my wife's bike weighed 810g brand new (even though Schwalbe advertises it being +-750g.) I assumed the same tire from Schwalbe in an inch-and-a-half larger diameter would be even heavier.

    This evening I can post up a scale shot of my HR2.

    Also think the new Rock Razor coming looks to be an awesome rear option.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed View Post
    I don't recognize this description of Schwalbe tires at all. They're my absolute favorite brand, and I've ridden Big Bettys, Hans Dampfs, Racing Raplhs, Nobby Nics, Rocket Rons, Fat Freds , Kojaks and probably some more that I've forgotten in the last few years, without problems.

    That said; here in Norway/Europe, they're not more expensive than any other brand.

    I guess it comes down to that the same tires doesn't work for everybody. What works for one rider's trails/soil and riding style, might not for others
    I love the performance of the Schwalbe tires, but the life of the tires has something to be desired. As a rear tire they wear super quick and the side knobs start tearing at the base. I haven't had any of these issues with using Schwalbe as a front tire though. I love the fact that Schwalbe makes a tire for just about every condition imaginable and you can mix and match the tire tread, casing, and compound to suit your particular riding style and locale. I just wish they would hold up longer as a rear tire.

    In the USA, you pay a premium price for Schwalbe tires vs other brands of tires. It's usually cheaper to buy the tires from Europe and pay shipping and duty fees vs buying them from a domestic retailer. So for people in the USA if you pay more for a tire, you expect more from the tire. So to have it wear out so fast it's a bit disappointing.

  32. #32
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    I get these at cost and still will not,but have no desire to use again!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Some are and some are not. Maybe you are lucky where you live. Just 3 months ago my LBS told me 27.5 was a fad and would die. Doesn't sound all that smart to me.
    I can, and am, only speaking for myself, hence the word "My" in "My LBS kicks ass", when responding to the guy saying I'm an idiot for listening to them. I am indeed lucky and I realize that a lot of people don't have a good LBS, and also have different needs/wants in a tire. For me, grip has to be balanced with durability because I ride very rocky trails 5+ days a week... I've had too many $200 tire months already to even consider going to something generally reviewed as being less durable, which Schwalbes are. Even at $55 a tire I'm not going there for daily use.... If I pick up racing again, then sure, it might make sense. I'm not hating on Schwalbe or anybody else's choice to run them... just stating that they don't make as much sense for me and my trails, and adding some local feedback from a reliable source that corroborates the long list of online reviews complaining about their short life. Who knows, I might try a HD 2.35 and think it's so magical that all reliability concerns go out the window.... if anybody's got enough emotional investment in Schwalbe tires that they want to send me a freebie to try out, I'm game

  34. #34
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    I have found my Neo Motos (2.3) to be very durable. Rocky, rooty New England single track has not taken a single knob. I think I have a bit over 1,000 miles on my tires. The rear is worn, but it still hooks up OK. I will order another set from Bikeman any day. I would recommend them to anybody. Best tire I have ever used. Glad to hear that Panaracer will continue to make them. Now when Mr. Pacenti puts his name on a new batch of tires, I will have top try them out, but he has the bar set very high already.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet Julio View Post
    I have found my Neo Motos (2.3) to be very durable. Rocky, rooty New England single track has not taken a single knob. I think I have a bit over 1,000 miles on my tires. The rear is worn, but it still hooks up OK. I will order another set from Bikeman any day. I would recommend them to anybody. Best tire I have ever used. Glad to hear that Panaracer will continue to make them. Now when Mr. Pacenti puts his name on a new batch of tires, I will have top try them out, but he has the bar set very high already.
    I rode with Prophet Julio and he knows hit stuff. He is a big fan if Neo Motos and he kicks some serious arse on them.

  36. #36
    OMZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMZ View Post
    Hmmm. The 27.5" 2.3 HR2 EXO TR on the front of my bike weighed 862g brand new. The 26" 2.35 HD Snakeskin TLR w/ Trailstar on my wife's bike weighed 810g brand new (even though Schwalbe advertises it being +-750g.) I assumed the same tire from Schwalbe in an inch-and-a-half larger diameter would be even heavier.

    This evening I can post up a scale shot of my HR2.

    Also think the new Rock Razor coming looks to be an awesome rear option.
    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.-wp_000215.jpg

    Here is my new 27.5 HR2 EXO TR 2.3

    Love to see a scale shot of a 27.5 HD Snakeskin TLR 2.35 at 730g. That would be crazy light for a tire of that size...

  37. #37
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    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.

    HR2 Exo TR 2.3
    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1376533586.592808.jpg

    HD SS TLR 2.25 I don't have the pic from the 2.35 but it was 730-40 ish

    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1376533725.987189.jpg

    A different 2.25 HD on a different scale

    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1376533770.629770.jpg

  38. #38
    OMZ
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    Is your HR2 a 3C compund or Dual? I know the 3C is a few grams heavier than the Dual.

    Bummer, I was really hoping to see a scale shot of a 27.5" HD TLR SS in a 2.35 weighing only 730 grams...

  39. #39
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    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMZ View Post
    Is your HR2 a 3C compund or Dual? I know the 3C is a few grams heavier than the Dual.

    I didn't even know they made the HD in a 2.25, but it's hard to believe the 2.35 is only 10-15g heavier. Especially when the advertised weight of the 26" HD 2.35 TLR SS is 760g. Would it be possible for the exact same tire in in an inch-and-a-half larger diameter to actually be 30g lighter? Schwalbe has done it again!
    The HR2 just says EXO TR. can't find anything about the compound on either the tire or the packaging.
    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1376539950.386065.jpg
    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1376539968.486334.jpg
    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1376539990.685147.jpg

    The HD's are SS both the 2.25 and 2.35.

  40. #40
    OMZ
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    That's a Dual, same as the one I have pictured above.

  41. #41
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    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.

    I may be wrong on the 2.35 HD weight. Claimed weight is 795.

  42. #42
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    Go home Schwalbe, you're drunk.

    Figured out why I was so off. The 2.35 Nobby Nic SS TLR is 730 ish. The HD is around 800. I just replaced the NN on the front with the HD.

  43. #43
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    Seems like a common problem

    A buddy of mine had the same problem on his 29" Nics. So far, I have not had an issue with my 26" after one season of use but I spread my riding out over three bikes. I don't think it has anything to do with which tire size you use. Too bad. I find the Nics to be an excellent tire but very expensive.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post
    A buddy of mine had the same problem on his 29" Nics. So far, I have not had an issue with my 26" after one season of use but I spread my riding out over three bikes. I don't think it has anything to do with which tire size you use. Too bad. I find the Nics to be an excellent tire but very expensive.
    My friend with a 29er had a Performance line Nic on the back and tore his up in similar fashion as well. The way my TrailStar Nic is wearing on the rear currently I would guess that the most of the side knobs will be gone around the same time as all the center knobs will be worn out. I will probably replace it before all the side knobs are gone as it is already starting to get squirrely when leaned over in faster corners.

  45. #45
    OMZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by DYI01 View Post
    I know it's minor and nit-picky but this is mildy annoying. Why couldn't Schwalbe just keep their naming 650b/27.5 straight instead of changing between the two? I know, I know, first world problems. Nic was purchased Dec '12 and the Hans was purchased June '13.

    Giant is Schwalbe's single biggest OEM customer. Giant is one of the biggest proponents of the new wheel size (yes, I know 650b has actually been around for a long long time.) Giant thinks 650b is confusing and is really pushing for the wheel size to be referred to as 27.5"

    There ya go...

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMZ View Post
    Giant is Schwalbe's single biggest OEM customer. Giant is one of the biggest proponents of the new wheel size (yes, I know 650b has actually been around for a long long time.) Giant thinks 650b is confusing and is really pushing for the wheel size to be referred to as 27.5"

    There ya go...
    I agree. I thought it was Giant's influence that caused the change. The new Giant 27.5 bikes is the first time I saw the new 27.5 labeled Schwalbe tires.

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