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  1. #1
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    Giant 2011 Reign 650b with photo

    Giant 2011 Reign can clear 2.3 neo-moto, with more than 10mm of space to the frame.
    the main problem is BB height, I put a RS lyrik 170mm in it, with 26x2.35 tires the BB is 14.25".....now with 650b 2.3 neo moto front and rear it`s now 14 5/8, ..............

    I tried to remove some air from the fork and pressed it to 150mm, the BB height goes back to 14.25", it`s marginally acceptable for the place I ride (Tai Mo Shan, Hong Kong, all rocky and rooty).








  2. #2
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    I knew 650b would clear those 2011s! Nice!

    What is the bottom bracket height at sag (that's what's most important anyway right?)?

  3. #3
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    that's very nice!

  4. #4
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    For 150mm fork, it will be 14 3/8 ", with 2.3 neo front and rear.
    At sag.... I dont measure yet...

  5. #5
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    I bet it will be fine out on the trails. Get out and ride it and report back ASAP!

  6. #6
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    yes I will~~ hehe~
    but first I need a better rear hub and re-lace it first, the current hub dont take 10s cassette.
    I will try to release the air of shock and fork, hold them at the 30% sag mark and measure the height tomorrow.
    Also I think so kind of offset bushing for the rear shock may lower the BB by half inch. I may buy some and try it out.

  7. #7
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    Great looking bike drummercat!

    Cheers,
    KP
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  8. #8
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    Is that a Reign or Reign X ?

  9. #9
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    May have been best to have 2.1 out back. 2.3 rubs my front deraileur(Marin).

  10. #10
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    Pardon the OT: what's the Rockshox shock like compared to the RP2? Monarch Plus RC3?

  11. #11
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    Check seat tube to tire clearance... deflate the shock and compress the rear suspension to bottom of travel.

    Even if there is no extra tire to seat tube clearance at bottom travel, you can shim the shock bottom travel and use offset shock mount bushings to lower the BB with reduced bottom out travel.

    Hopefully there is still plenty of seat tube clearance with 650b to add offset shock mount bushings without shimming the shock to reduce bottom travel.

    Good luck!

  12. #12
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    Kirk: yeah thanks! Love the tyres you made!

    gvs_nz: it`s a Reign, but I am sure Reign X will work also.

    socalscott: I run 1x10 , so I am not sure about the FD.....

    Haggis: the Monarch Plus is great!! make sure you buy the low volume with mid or high compress tune. my Low tune blown through travel easily when I switch to low compress position. but it mid position it`s excellent.

    Derby: for Reign I dont think the tyre will hit the seat tube by any chance, there is a long cross beam welded in the rear triangle around the wheel, so if the tyre never touch the cross beam it will be fine I think.
    Last edited by drummercat; 02-13-2012 at 08:39 PM.

  13. #13
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    ok I just tried to released all air from the shcok and fork and hold it at 28-30% sag position.
    the BB height is slightly below 13" (it`s measured 13" with my bike slightly slant, no one hold the bike for me. if the bike stand upright it will be below 13"). with an offset bushing on the top side, it will be around 12.75" with sag I think. totally fine for me!!

  14. #14
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    drummercat , try riding it first , your bb is just a little bit higher than mine unsagged but you have more travel fr/rr , willing to bet it is fine while riding and the little extra bit of clearance is a welcome addition for me .

    i have thought about offset bushings but my bike works good enough the way it is thats all i have done , thought about it

    while converting the one bike i measured before and after and was kinda worried about the higher bb but after riding it ..................

  15. #15
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    I agree with motorbykemike - don't over think it........just ride it. It'll be fine once you get into the shock and fork sag. :thumb:

  16. #16
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    alright.......then I will try to re-lace the rear wheel and ride on this sunday.

  17. #17
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    Reign 650b

    I just spent all weekend riding my 2011 giant reign set up 650b. This was my first ride on my new 650b setup. I was trading out the wheels with my wife who also rides a reign. Mine is a large with a pushed RP23 7.875x2.25 rear shock and a lyric air up front. My wife rides a small reign with the stock fox suspension.
    The tires were the 2.3 Pacenti tires set up tubeless front and rear.
    The wheels clear both frames and there are no bottom out issues with either setup.
    I was riding in St. George Utah on a good mix of desert single and double track as well as the classic southern Utah rocks and ledges.
    The bike felt right at home with the larger wheels.
    The bottom bracket height was not as noticeable as I had feared but mine is 14.25 unsagged with the longer stroke rear shock and 25% sag it felt perfect for the ledges of southern Utah.
    my wife's BB is 14.0 unsagged.

  18. #18
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    Hey drummercat, where do you ride in HK? I was there recently and rode with some randoms from Mui Wo. Coolest place for MTBing I've been for a while. I reckon I might have seen your bike at the Friendly bike store? I know what you mean about needing a low BB. The rocky steps around there are fun to ride up/over but if you get hung up you need to get a foot down quick...

    T

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj1011 View Post
    I just spent all weekend riding my 2011 giant reign set up 650b. This was my first ride on my new 650b setup. I was trading out the wheels with my wife who also rides a reign. Mine is a large with a pushed RP23 7.875x2.25 rear shock and a lyric air up front. My wife rides a small reign with the stock fox suspension.
    The tires were the 2.3 Pacenti tires set up tubeless front and rear.
    The wheels clear both frames and there are no bottom out issues with either setup.
    I was riding in St. George Utah on a good mix of desert single and double track as well as the classic southern Utah rocks and ledges.
    The bike felt right at home with the larger wheels.
    The bottom bracket height was not as noticeable as I had feared but mine is 14.25 unsagged with the longer stroke rear shock and 25% sag it felt perfect for the ledges of southern Utah.
    my wife's BB is 14.0 unsagged.

    Hit us with some pics!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by twyeld View Post
    Hey drummercat, where do you ride in HK? I was there recently and rode with some randoms from Mui Wo. Coolest place for MTBing I've been for a while. I reckon I might have seen your bike at the Friendly bike store? I know what you mean about needing a low BB. The rocky steps around there are fun to ride up/over but if you get hung up you need to get a foot down quick...

    T
    I ride mostly in Tai Mo Shan, I wanna try Mui Wo also, my friends told me it`s a good trail. I rode on other side of that island 6 months ago, the trail is Bloody Rocky!!

  21. #21
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    Finally I have time to ride it last sunday, bad luck for me I got 2 snake bite flat in one day.
    I will go to test it again this week.

    With the bigger wheels, the bike is definately faster on road (I think it will be faster off-road also), but it`s 5-8% harder to pedal, it makes sense because the wheels are larger and the gears are same. the bike is much taller for me now, not good but I think I can live with it.


  22. #22
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    do you know the difference between reign 2009 and 2011 in rear wheel clearance?
    .
    excuse my bad english, this is not my native language ... I'll try to improve!
    greetings from...Austria
    .

  23. #23
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    I had a good look at the 2012 Trance x and thought it looked like much more clearance than my 09 Trance X[ eyeball only]. But then I measured my no Ni 2.25[ stock on 2012 Trance X] and ooh I think may be a few more mm but I don't think there's enough yet? Wouldn't take much to fix when they do decide to open it up a bit for the bigger wheels.

    Unless they've moved the bottom bridge,I suspect the 09 reign will fit. Chain stay length hasn't changed.

  24. #24
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    I just realised you have this set up as single speed. I'm looking at buying a Reign myself especially to convert to 650b. Do you think it would still be possible to keep it with the three speed front, or would tire clearance with the FD be an issue?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    Finally I have time to ride it last sunday, bad luck for me I got 2 snake bite flat in one day.
    I will go to test it again this week.

    With the bigger wheels, the bike is definately faster on road (I think it will be faster off-road also), but it`s 5-8% harder to pedal, it makes sense because the wheels are larger and the gears are same. the bike is much taller for me now, not good but I think I can live with it.
    Sweet rig drummercat.

    I saw a lot of guys riding Orange DH/AM bikes with high BBs but they seemed to cope OK. I suspect they run a lot of sag. You could do the same. In fact apart from road riding it would give you a lot of grip for the type of terrain on Lantau

    You're right about the rocky steps at Mui Wo but it's not like that all over. Most of the trails are fast and flowing!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by energiser View Post
    I just realised you have this set up as single speed. I'm looking at buying a Reign myself especially to convert to 650b. Do you think it would still be possible to keep it with the three speed front, or would tire clearance with the FD be an issue?
    I still have the FD in my parts box, I can put it back it and try the clearance in a few days.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I still have the FD in my parts box, I can put it back it and try the clearance in a few days.
    That would be great. I don't have access to a Reign to check for myself before ordering so I'm keen to see what you find.

  28. #28
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    hey energiser, the FD will clear with 2.3 neo moto at any position, so you can run 3x10 there.



  29. #29
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    Nice, real nice.

    I need to retire my old Prophet at some point and time, and seeing this post just moved the Plain Reign Frame to the top of my list of wants (it'll be a while - drat!)

    I have a Carbon Lefty 140 mm, that I would use. Anybody know if there are any Lefty headset adapter issues I should be concerned with??? I believe the 2012 bigger stearer tube (OverDrive System).

  30. #30
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    [QUOTE=drummercat;9074832]hey energiser, the FD will clear with 2.3 neo moto at any position, so you can run 3x10 there.

    Thanks for that drummercat. Awesome news. I guess all I have left is to order one!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by u2metoo View Post
    Nice, real nice.

    I need to retire my old Prophet at some point and time, and seeing this post just moved the Plain Reign Frame to the top of my list of wants (it'll be a while - drat!)

    I have a Carbon Lefty 140 mm, that I would use. Anybody know if there are any Lefty headset adapter issues I should be concerned with??? I believe the 2012 bigger stearer tube (OverDrive System).
    for lefty, I never heard any problems for 650b, seems they will clear easily.

  32. #32
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    I have been riding my reign 650 with a 7.875x2.25 rear shock. I set it up this way not because I wanted the extra travel but because I wanted more sag to lower the BB height and because my pushed shock rides much better than the stock rp2.
    Today while spending some time in my garage I had the idea to try a shock I have in the 7.5x2 configuration. Mounting this shock up lowered my bb by 1/2 inch and put me in the 13.5" range with 650b and 13" range with 26". The downside is that the rear triangle at full bottom hits the front derailleur cable....so I removed the cable and it no longer bottomed the frame out on itself. I am estimating that a small 3mm shim in the shock should prevent the bottoming and allow the use of the shorter i2i shock. My crude math tells me that the shorter i2i setup will yield about 142mm of travel in the rear end.
    My questions for the forum are as follows:
    1. Any ideas on how this changes the properties of the linkage. Will it affect the pedaling efficiency significantly?
    2. Does my math seem correct?
    3. 13.5" bb height seems more appealing but does it really matter?
    4. Any guesses where this puts the head angle with the stock 150mm fork?

  33. #33
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    The reign has a progressive leverage ratio so I'm guessing with the shorter shock you displace your leverage ratio so you start and finish at a lower leverage ratio. So it should be a bit firmer throughout the travel?. You could use an offset shock bush reversed to effectively lengthen the shock and tweak the BB back up a bit.

  34. #34
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    1. what GVS said, and i'd like to add, keep in mind the reign X uses same linkages/leverage ratio but utilizes that bottom 1/4 of travel which is what you're effectively doing with the short i2i shock. best way to see what happens is to ride it!

    2. you're still using a 2" stroke shock so travel should be the same, just shifted towards the bottom end of it's useable limit

    3. in my opinion no. it really comes down to your personal preference yeah? sometimes i think i like a high BB, easier to wheelie/manual, less pedal strikes in the rocks/roots, and after riding mine enough last weekend it's confirmed for me.

    4. no idea, rest assured it will be slacker tho, but see above it comes down to your personal preference regardless what we say here on the internets.

  35. #35
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    Interesting! Can you take a pic of the frame with the 7.5 shock bottomed out? I run 1x10 so fd cable is absent, but my bb is now14 5/8" tall. It will be excellent if I can still have full 150mm travel.


    Quote Originally Posted by jrj1011 View Post
    I have been riding my reign 650 with a 7.875x2.25 rear shock. I set it up this way not because I wanted the extra travel but because I wanted more sag to lower the BB height and because my pushed shock rides much better than the stock rp2.
    Today while spending some time in my garage I had the idea to try a shock I have in the 7.5x2 configuration. Mounting this shock up lowered my bb by 1/2 inch and put me in the 13.5" range with 650b and 13" range with 26". The downside is that the rear triangle at full bottom hits the front derailleur cable....so I removed the cable and it no longer bottomed the frame out on itself. I am estimating that a small 3mm shim in the shock should prevent the bottoming and allow the use of the shorter i2i shock. My crude math tells me that the shorter i2i setup will yield about 142mm of travel in the rear end.
    My questions for the forum are as follows:
    1. Any ideas on how this changes the properties of the linkage. Will it affect the pedaling efficiency significantly?
    2. Does my math seem correct?
    3. 13.5" bb height seems more appealing but does it really matter?
    4. Any guesses where this puts the head angle with the stock 150mm fork?

  36. #36
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    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!
    that's great, congrats!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    ).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!
    Yet there's still plenty of doubters who just look at the small increase in diameter and say it will make no difference at all.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!

    Awesome to read!

    I went out for about a 1.5 hour jaunt the other night on my 650b Marin Mount Vision Conversion and I was so stoked to ride a couple of tough techy sections of the loop without any issues at all. Not sure if it was mental or a combination of being stoked to be on this new FS bike combined with the 650b hoops - but either way it was really grin inducing!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!
    You already had me sold on a Reign 650b. So sold in fact that I ordered a 2012 Reign 2 through my LBS. I went for the Reign 2 because it has the Fox fork, so no changes needed to throw in 650B, and other components will get the upgrade as they wear/break. (besides that, it looks sweet in all black). I've already got the American Classic wheels at home, taping them up for tubeless with Schwalbe Racing Ralphs. Reading your latest post I can't wait till the bike gets in.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    Awesome to read!

    I went out for about a 1.5 hour jaunt the other night on my 650b Marin Mount Vision Conversion and I was so stoked to ride a couple of tough techy sections of the loop without any issues at all. Not sure if it was mental or a combination of being stoked to be on this new FS bike combined with the 650b hoops - but either way it was really grin inducing!
    Nice bike choice. It does dominate the tech sections.
    BTW, 85mm SS improves DH positioning. Weighs in at 30.5lbs. with P35's and 2.35 Neo's. Think I'll go big on the front rotor.
    I'm pondering custom drop-out mounting blocks, as to raise axle(-BB) and extend CS length(+14mm). The latter for better climbing manners.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    Kirk: yeah thanks! Love the tyres you made!

    gvs_nz: it`s a Reign, but I am sure Reign X will work also.

    socalscott: I run 1x10 , so I am not sure about the FD.....

    Haggis: the Monarch Plus is great!! make sure you buy the low volume with mid or high compress tune. my Low tune blown through travel easily when I switch to low compress position. but it mid position it`s excellent.

    Derby: for Reign I dont think the tyre will hit the seat tube by any chance, there is a long cross beam welded in the rear triangle around the wheel, so if the tyre never touch the cross beam it will be fine I think.
    One of the main benefits of the Monarch series is that the IFP chamber is user tuneable for pressure, unlike the Fox RP series and most other inline shocks. Yes, the damping tune and volume selection is obviously important, but you can do some amazing fine tuning by manipulating the IFP pressure in this shock...just like you can do with many of the quality piggyback shocks out there.

    If they didn't make the Nomad, the Reign would be my next choice as my serious AM bike. It's a great bike.

  43. #43
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    Yes I pumped the ifp to 260 psi and it`s now ideal for me!!
    Love that way much more than Fox RP.

    get the Reign man, I am sure you will be happy with it!


    Quote Originally Posted by TNC View Post
    One of the main benefits of the Monarch series is that the IFP chamber is user tuneable for pressure, unlike the Fox RP series and most other inline shocks. Yes, the damping tune and volume selection is obviously important, but you can do some amazing fine tuning by manipulating the IFP pressure in this shock...just like you can do with many of the quality piggyback shocks out there.

    If they didn't make the Nomad, the Reign would be my next choice as my serious AM bike. It's a great bike.

  44. #44
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    Nice idea. Looks like it works well.

    As far as the gearing difference between a 26.5" and 27.5" tire it should be about 3.7% so that isn't too bad. Probably just means 1 gear down on most stuff to feel the same but I haven't done the gear math.

    Concerning BB height. You get used to being high () pretty fast. I have a bike that ends up at 14" after sag and it's not a big deal. It's actually nice not having to be as concerned with ground clearance and in corners you just have to lean more. If I was racing on a world class level it might matter more. But I'm not.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Nice idea. Looks like it works well.

    As far as the gearing difference between a 26.5" and 27.5" tire it should be about 3.7% so that isn't too bad. Probably just means 1 gear down on most stuff to feel the same but I haven't done the gear math.

    Concerning BB height. You get used to being high () pretty fast. I have a bike that ends up at 14" after sag and it's not a big deal. It's actually nice not having to be as concerned with ground clearance and in corners you just have to lean more. If I was racing on a world class level it might matter more. But I'm not.
    countersteer and **LEAN** FTW!!

    when i was last out riding mine with an old friend (scottish guy, hardcore XC, likes low flat bars, long stems) and let him ride my 29/27.5 reign i pointed out to him that he should try and countersteer it like a motorbike, and after maybe 10 minutes he was having a blast. his exact words when we were done riding: "im going to have to change my philosophy of cycling"

    just like wheel sizes, low bottom brackets are purely personal preference, and me, bigger is better.

  46. #46
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    ... and if we just ...

    Still working out how to put up images! Will put some up of my new Reign 650 later.

    I've had two rides since putting it together. I knew it would be different compared to my old 2005 Reign but this thing is unreal! I don't know if it's the the 650 wheels, suspension, or just having a new bike but it does everything so easy. It maintains speed so well that Im launching off stuff on my regular tracks that I never had the speed to before.

    I think the 650 format is the big difference. Going over roots and rock step-ups the bike just seems to float. It doesnt have that sudden loss of momentum I've always felt on the 26 version. It feels more like a 29er, but doesn't have the sluggish feeling when accelerating that I have experienced on 29ers. This thing feels no different to a 26 inch bike, until you realise its flowing over stuff that would normally be sucking up momentum.

    It also feels more balanced compared to my old Reign (and my Anthem for that matter). I was worried big wheels on the small frame might not feel right but I really cant tell the difference. Launches and lands smooth and seems much more capable than I'm game enough to try....In case you can't tell I'm pretty wrapped in it

  47. #47
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    So I have done some riding on my Reign with the 7.5x2 rear shock. I endend up shimming the shock to keep it from bottoming on my front derailleur cable. I put a 2mm shim in the air sleve and it alters the rear travel to about 140mm. This also puts the bb height at 13.5"The head angle changes to roughly 66.5 degrees.
    This setup definitely makes the bike feel more like a trail bike and it is great for those long pedal rides. I think I still prefer the 7.875x2.25 rear shock for the more aggressive riding even with the higher BB. Ultimately I think I would want to get an angle set to steepen the head angle when running the shorter i2i shock.
    I have also been running a Turner Sultan with a 150mm fox float front and 650b wheels. When compared to the giant the turner feels like a much stiffer more efficient trail bike.
    All the setups seem to benifit from the 650b platform but I like climbing on the Turner the best. On the flip side the long travel Reign in the desserts of Southern Utah is an amazing ride.

  48. #48
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    I will try and get some pics posted of the various 650b reign setups later this week for you guys.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj1011 View Post
    So I have done some riding on my Reign with the 7.5x2 rear shock. I endend up shimming the shock to keep it from bottoming on my front derailleur cable. I put a 2mm shim in the air sleve and it alters the rear travel to about 140mm. This also puts the bb height at 13.5"The head angle changes to roughly 66.5 degrees.
    This setup definitely makes the bike feel more like a trail bike and it is great for those long pedal rides. I think I still prefer the 7.875x2.25 rear shock for the more aggressive riding even with the higher BB. Ultimately I think I would want to get an angle set to steepen the head angle when running the shorter i2i shock.
    I have also been running a Turner Sultan with a 150mm fox float front and 650b wheels. When compared to the giant the turner feels like a much stiffer more efficient trail bike.
    All the setups seem to benifit from the 650b platform but I like climbing on the Turner the best. On the flip side the long travel Reign in the desserts of Southern Utah is an amazing ride.
    My Meta 55 has a BB of 13.5 " with a F140.Both my 140mm bikes get about 2" of sag at the BB .So I the find the BB too low. Lower than my AX 29er sagged.
    The Reign should get at least 2" of sag at the BB.

    I was wondering how stiff the Reign is, It is a very light frame. My 09 trance has similar shaped top tube and frame weight and is flexy up front. Doesn't have the beefed up tapered head tube though.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I ride mostly in Tai Mo Shan, I wanna try Mui Wo also, my friends told me it`s a good trail. I rode on other side of that island 6 months ago, the trail is Bloody Rocky!!
    Hey Drummer,
    PM sent.

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