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  1. #1
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    Giant 2011 Reign 650b with photo

    Giant 2011 Reign can clear 2.3 neo-moto, with more than 10mm of space to the frame.
    the main problem is BB height, I put a RS lyrik 170mm in it, with 26x2.35 tires the BB is 14.25".....now with 650b 2.3 neo moto front and rear it`s now 14 5/8, ..............

    I tried to remove some air from the fork and pressed it to 150mm, the BB height goes back to 14.25", it`s marginally acceptable for the place I ride (Tai Mo Shan, Hong Kong, all rocky and rooty).








  2. #2
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    I knew 650b would clear those 2011s! Nice!

    What is the bottom bracket height at sag (that's what's most important anyway right?)?

  3. #3
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    that's very nice!

  4. #4
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    For 150mm fork, it will be 14 3/8 ", with 2.3 neo front and rear.
    At sag.... I dont measure yet...

  5. #5
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    I bet it will be fine out on the trails. Get out and ride it and report back ASAP!

  6. #6
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    yes I will~~ hehe~
    but first I need a better rear hub and re-lace it first, the current hub dont take 10s cassette.
    I will try to release the air of shock and fork, hold them at the 30% sag mark and measure the height tomorrow.
    Also I think so kind of offset bushing for the rear shock may lower the BB by half inch. I may buy some and try it out.

  7. #7
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    Great looking bike drummercat!

    Cheers,
    KP
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  8. #8
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    Is that a Reign or Reign X ?

  9. #9
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    May have been best to have 2.1 out back. 2.3 rubs my front deraileur(Marin).

  10. #10
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    Pardon the OT: what's the Rockshox shock like compared to the RP2? Monarch Plus RC3?

  11. #11
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    Check seat tube to tire clearance... deflate the shock and compress the rear suspension to bottom of travel.

    Even if there is no extra tire to seat tube clearance at bottom travel, you can shim the shock bottom travel and use offset shock mount bushings to lower the BB with reduced bottom out travel.

    Hopefully there is still plenty of seat tube clearance with 650b to add offset shock mount bushings without shimming the shock to reduce bottom travel.

    Good luck!

  12. #12
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    Kirk: yeah thanks! Love the tyres you made!

    gvs_nz: it`s a Reign, but I am sure Reign X will work also.

    socalscott: I run 1x10 , so I am not sure about the FD.....

    Haggis: the Monarch Plus is great!! make sure you buy the low volume with mid or high compress tune. my Low tune blown through travel easily when I switch to low compress position. but it mid position it`s excellent.

    Derby: for Reign I dont think the tyre will hit the seat tube by any chance, there is a long cross beam welded in the rear triangle around the wheel, so if the tyre never touch the cross beam it will be fine I think.
    Last edited by drummercat; 02-13-2012 at 08:39 PM.

  13. #13
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    ok I just tried to released all air from the shcok and fork and hold it at 28-30% sag position.
    the BB height is slightly below 13" (it`s measured 13" with my bike slightly slant, no one hold the bike for me. if the bike stand upright it will be below 13"). with an offset bushing on the top side, it will be around 12.75" with sag I think. totally fine for me!!

  14. #14
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    drummercat , try riding it first , your bb is just a little bit higher than mine unsagged but you have more travel fr/rr , willing to bet it is fine while riding and the little extra bit of clearance is a welcome addition for me .

    i have thought about offset bushings but my bike works good enough the way it is thats all i have done , thought about it

    while converting the one bike i measured before and after and was kinda worried about the higher bb but after riding it ..................

  15. #15
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    I agree with motorbykemike - don't over think it........just ride it. It'll be fine once you get into the shock and fork sag. :thumb:

  16. #16
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    alright.......then I will try to re-lace the rear wheel and ride on this sunday.

  17. #17
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    Reign 650b

    I just spent all weekend riding my 2011 giant reign set up 650b. This was my first ride on my new 650b setup. I was trading out the wheels with my wife who also rides a reign. Mine is a large with a pushed RP23 7.875x2.25 rear shock and a lyric air up front. My wife rides a small reign with the stock fox suspension.
    The tires were the 2.3 Pacenti tires set up tubeless front and rear.
    The wheels clear both frames and there are no bottom out issues with either setup.
    I was riding in St. George Utah on a good mix of desert single and double track as well as the classic southern Utah rocks and ledges.
    The bike felt right at home with the larger wheels.
    The bottom bracket height was not as noticeable as I had feared but mine is 14.25 unsagged with the longer stroke rear shock and 25% sag it felt perfect for the ledges of southern Utah.
    my wife's BB is 14.0 unsagged.

  18. #18
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    Hey drummercat, where do you ride in HK? I was there recently and rode with some randoms from Mui Wo. Coolest place for MTBing I've been for a while. I reckon I might have seen your bike at the Friendly bike store? I know what you mean about needing a low BB. The rocky steps around there are fun to ride up/over but if you get hung up you need to get a foot down quick...

    T

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj1011 View Post
    I just spent all weekend riding my 2011 giant reign set up 650b. This was my first ride on my new 650b setup. I was trading out the wheels with my wife who also rides a reign. Mine is a large with a pushed RP23 7.875x2.25 rear shock and a lyric air up front. My wife rides a small reign with the stock fox suspension.
    The tires were the 2.3 Pacenti tires set up tubeless front and rear.
    The wheels clear both frames and there are no bottom out issues with either setup.
    I was riding in St. George Utah on a good mix of desert single and double track as well as the classic southern Utah rocks and ledges.
    The bike felt right at home with the larger wheels.
    The bottom bracket height was not as noticeable as I had feared but mine is 14.25 unsagged with the longer stroke rear shock and 25% sag it felt perfect for the ledges of southern Utah.
    my wife's BB is 14.0 unsagged.

    Hit us with some pics!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by twyeld View Post
    Hey drummercat, where do you ride in HK? I was there recently and rode with some randoms from Mui Wo. Coolest place for MTBing I've been for a while. I reckon I might have seen your bike at the Friendly bike store? I know what you mean about needing a low BB. The rocky steps around there are fun to ride up/over but if you get hung up you need to get a foot down quick...

    T
    I ride mostly in Tai Mo Shan, I wanna try Mui Wo also, my friends told me it`s a good trail. I rode on other side of that island 6 months ago, the trail is Bloody Rocky!!

  21. #21
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    Finally I have time to ride it last sunday, bad luck for me I got 2 snake bite flat in one day.
    I will go to test it again this week.

    With the bigger wheels, the bike is definately faster on road (I think it will be faster off-road also), but it`s 5-8% harder to pedal, it makes sense because the wheels are larger and the gears are same. the bike is much taller for me now, not good but I think I can live with it.


  22. #22
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    do you know the difference between reign 2009 and 2011 in rear wheel clearance?
    .
    excuse my bad english, this is not my native language ... I'll try to improve!
    greetings from...Austria
    .

  23. #23
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    I had a good look at the 2012 Trance x and thought it looked like much more clearance than my 09 Trance X[ eyeball only]. But then I measured my no Ni 2.25[ stock on 2012 Trance X] and ooh I think may be a few more mm but I don't think there's enough yet? Wouldn't take much to fix when they do decide to open it up a bit for the bigger wheels.

    Unless they've moved the bottom bridge,I suspect the 09 reign will fit. Chain stay length hasn't changed.

  24. #24
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    I just realised you have this set up as single speed. I'm looking at buying a Reign myself especially to convert to 650b. Do you think it would still be possible to keep it with the three speed front, or would tire clearance with the FD be an issue?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    Finally I have time to ride it last sunday, bad luck for me I got 2 snake bite flat in one day.
    I will go to test it again this week.

    With the bigger wheels, the bike is definately faster on road (I think it will be faster off-road also), but it`s 5-8% harder to pedal, it makes sense because the wheels are larger and the gears are same. the bike is much taller for me now, not good but I think I can live with it.
    Sweet rig drummercat.

    I saw a lot of guys riding Orange DH/AM bikes with high BBs but they seemed to cope OK. I suspect they run a lot of sag. You could do the same. In fact apart from road riding it would give you a lot of grip for the type of terrain on Lantau

    You're right about the rocky steps at Mui Wo but it's not like that all over. Most of the trails are fast and flowing!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by energiser View Post
    I just realised you have this set up as single speed. I'm looking at buying a Reign myself especially to convert to 650b. Do you think it would still be possible to keep it with the three speed front, or would tire clearance with the FD be an issue?
    I still have the FD in my parts box, I can put it back it and try the clearance in a few days.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I still have the FD in my parts box, I can put it back it and try the clearance in a few days.
    That would be great. I don't have access to a Reign to check for myself before ordering so I'm keen to see what you find.

  28. #28
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    hey energiser, the FD will clear with 2.3 neo moto at any position, so you can run 3x10 there.



  29. #29
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    Nice, real nice.

    I need to retire my old Prophet at some point and time, and seeing this post just moved the Plain Reign Frame to the top of my list of wants (it'll be a while - drat!)

    I have a Carbon Lefty 140 mm, that I would use. Anybody know if there are any Lefty headset adapter issues I should be concerned with??? I believe the 2012 bigger stearer tube (OverDrive System).

  30. #30
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    [QUOTE=drummercat;9074832]hey energiser, the FD will clear with 2.3 neo moto at any position, so you can run 3x10 there.

    Thanks for that drummercat. Awesome news. I guess all I have left is to order one!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by u2metoo View Post
    Nice, real nice.

    I need to retire my old Prophet at some point and time, and seeing this post just moved the Plain Reign Frame to the top of my list of wants (it'll be a while - drat!)

    I have a Carbon Lefty 140 mm, that I would use. Anybody know if there are any Lefty headset adapter issues I should be concerned with??? I believe the 2012 bigger stearer tube (OverDrive System).
    for lefty, I never heard any problems for 650b, seems they will clear easily.

  32. #32
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    I have been riding my reign 650 with a 7.875x2.25 rear shock. I set it up this way not because I wanted the extra travel but because I wanted more sag to lower the BB height and because my pushed shock rides much better than the stock rp2.
    Today while spending some time in my garage I had the idea to try a shock I have in the 7.5x2 configuration. Mounting this shock up lowered my bb by 1/2 inch and put me in the 13.5" range with 650b and 13" range with 26". The downside is that the rear triangle at full bottom hits the front derailleur cable....so I removed the cable and it no longer bottomed the frame out on itself. I am estimating that a small 3mm shim in the shock should prevent the bottoming and allow the use of the shorter i2i shock. My crude math tells me that the shorter i2i setup will yield about 142mm of travel in the rear end.
    My questions for the forum are as follows:
    1. Any ideas on how this changes the properties of the linkage. Will it affect the pedaling efficiency significantly?
    2. Does my math seem correct?
    3. 13.5" bb height seems more appealing but does it really matter?
    4. Any guesses where this puts the head angle with the stock 150mm fork?

  33. #33
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    The reign has a progressive leverage ratio so I'm guessing with the shorter shock you displace your leverage ratio so you start and finish at a lower leverage ratio. So it should be a bit firmer throughout the travel?. You could use an offset shock bush reversed to effectively lengthen the shock and tweak the BB back up a bit.

  34. #34
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    1. what GVS said, and i'd like to add, keep in mind the reign X uses same linkages/leverage ratio but utilizes that bottom 1/4 of travel which is what you're effectively doing with the short i2i shock. best way to see what happens is to ride it!

    2. you're still using a 2" stroke shock so travel should be the same, just shifted towards the bottom end of it's useable limit

    3. in my opinion no. it really comes down to your personal preference yeah? sometimes i think i like a high BB, easier to wheelie/manual, less pedal strikes in the rocks/roots, and after riding mine enough last weekend it's confirmed for me.

    4. no idea, rest assured it will be slacker tho, but see above it comes down to your personal preference regardless what we say here on the internets.

  35. #35
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    Interesting! Can you take a pic of the frame with the 7.5 shock bottomed out? I run 1x10 so fd cable is absent, but my bb is now14 5/8" tall. It will be excellent if I can still have full 150mm travel.


    Quote Originally Posted by jrj1011 View Post
    I have been riding my reign 650 with a 7.875x2.25 rear shock. I set it up this way not because I wanted the extra travel but because I wanted more sag to lower the BB height and because my pushed shock rides much better than the stock rp2.
    Today while spending some time in my garage I had the idea to try a shock I have in the 7.5x2 configuration. Mounting this shock up lowered my bb by 1/2 inch and put me in the 13.5" range with 650b and 13" range with 26". The downside is that the rear triangle at full bottom hits the front derailleur cable....so I removed the cable and it no longer bottomed the frame out on itself. I am estimating that a small 3mm shim in the shock should prevent the bottoming and allow the use of the shorter i2i shock. My crude math tells me that the shorter i2i setup will yield about 142mm of travel in the rear end.
    My questions for the forum are as follows:
    1. Any ideas on how this changes the properties of the linkage. Will it affect the pedaling efficiency significantly?
    2. Does my math seem correct?
    3. 13.5" bb height seems more appealing but does it really matter?
    4. Any guesses where this puts the head angle with the stock 150mm fork?

  36. #36
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    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!
    that's great, congrats!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    ).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!
    Yet there's still plenty of doubters who just look at the small increase in diameter and say it will make no difference at all.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!

    Awesome to read!

    I went out for about a 1.5 hour jaunt the other night on my 650b Marin Mount Vision Conversion and I was so stoked to ride a couple of tough techy sections of the loop without any issues at all. Not sure if it was mental or a combination of being stoked to be on this new FS bike combined with the 650b hoops - but either way it was really grin inducing!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I just did a few downhill tracks with this bike with my friends today, with a proper setting on both suspensions and tyre pressure, this 650b reign can do almost same things as my 8" DH rig!!

    the terrain here is quite mixed of hard packs with embeeded rocks, rock garden, loose rocks, roots and everything. the neo-moto 2.3 F&R have a lot of grips!!! it outperformed my 26" DH rig with 2.35 nevegal front and 2.5 Minion DHF rear in terms of corner grip.

    Love that Reign!! I am totally confident with this bike no matter where I ride (in Hong Kong).

    I already planning to build a spare set of 650b light wheels for the Reign!!
    You already had me sold on a Reign 650b. So sold in fact that I ordered a 2012 Reign 2 through my LBS. I went for the Reign 2 because it has the Fox fork, so no changes needed to throw in 650B, and other components will get the upgrade as they wear/break. (besides that, it looks sweet in all black). I've already got the American Classic wheels at home, taping them up for tubeless with Schwalbe Racing Ralphs. Reading your latest post I can't wait till the bike gets in.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    Awesome to read!

    I went out for about a 1.5 hour jaunt the other night on my 650b Marin Mount Vision Conversion and I was so stoked to ride a couple of tough techy sections of the loop without any issues at all. Not sure if it was mental or a combination of being stoked to be on this new FS bike combined with the 650b hoops - but either way it was really grin inducing!
    Nice bike choice. It does dominate the tech sections.
    BTW, 85mm SS improves DH positioning. Weighs in at 30.5lbs. with P35's and 2.35 Neo's. Think I'll go big on the front rotor.
    I'm pondering custom drop-out mounting blocks, as to raise axle(-BB) and extend CS length(+14mm). The latter for better climbing manners.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    Kirk: yeah thanks! Love the tyres you made!

    gvs_nz: it`s a Reign, but I am sure Reign X will work also.

    socalscott: I run 1x10 , so I am not sure about the FD.....

    Haggis: the Monarch Plus is great!! make sure you buy the low volume with mid or high compress tune. my Low tune blown through travel easily when I switch to low compress position. but it mid position it`s excellent.

    Derby: for Reign I dont think the tyre will hit the seat tube by any chance, there is a long cross beam welded in the rear triangle around the wheel, so if the tyre never touch the cross beam it will be fine I think.
    One of the main benefits of the Monarch series is that the IFP chamber is user tuneable for pressure, unlike the Fox RP series and most other inline shocks. Yes, the damping tune and volume selection is obviously important, but you can do some amazing fine tuning by manipulating the IFP pressure in this shock...just like you can do with many of the quality piggyback shocks out there.

    If they didn't make the Nomad, the Reign would be my next choice as my serious AM bike. It's a great bike.

  43. #43
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    Yes I pumped the ifp to 260 psi and it`s now ideal for me!!
    Love that way much more than Fox RP.

    get the Reign man, I am sure you will be happy with it!


    Quote Originally Posted by TNC View Post
    One of the main benefits of the Monarch series is that the IFP chamber is user tuneable for pressure, unlike the Fox RP series and most other inline shocks. Yes, the damping tune and volume selection is obviously important, but you can do some amazing fine tuning by manipulating the IFP pressure in this shock...just like you can do with many of the quality piggyback shocks out there.

    If they didn't make the Nomad, the Reign would be my next choice as my serious AM bike. It's a great bike.

  44. #44
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    Nice idea. Looks like it works well.

    As far as the gearing difference between a 26.5" and 27.5" tire it should be about 3.7% so that isn't too bad. Probably just means 1 gear down on most stuff to feel the same but I haven't done the gear math.

    Concerning BB height. You get used to being high () pretty fast. I have a bike that ends up at 14" after sag and it's not a big deal. It's actually nice not having to be as concerned with ground clearance and in corners you just have to lean more. If I was racing on a world class level it might matter more. But I'm not.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Nice idea. Looks like it works well.

    As far as the gearing difference between a 26.5" and 27.5" tire it should be about 3.7% so that isn't too bad. Probably just means 1 gear down on most stuff to feel the same but I haven't done the gear math.

    Concerning BB height. You get used to being high () pretty fast. I have a bike that ends up at 14" after sag and it's not a big deal. It's actually nice not having to be as concerned with ground clearance and in corners you just have to lean more. If I was racing on a world class level it might matter more. But I'm not.
    countersteer and **LEAN** FTW!!

    when i was last out riding mine with an old friend (scottish guy, hardcore XC, likes low flat bars, long stems) and let him ride my 29/27.5 reign i pointed out to him that he should try and countersteer it like a motorbike, and after maybe 10 minutes he was having a blast. his exact words when we were done riding: "im going to have to change my philosophy of cycling"

    just like wheel sizes, low bottom brackets are purely personal preference, and me, bigger is better.

  46. #46
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    ... and if we just ...

    Still working out how to put up images! Will put some up of my new Reign 650 later.

    I've had two rides since putting it together. I knew it would be different compared to my old 2005 Reign but this thing is unreal! I don't know if it's the the 650 wheels, suspension, or just having a new bike but it does everything so easy. It maintains speed so well that Im launching off stuff on my regular tracks that I never had the speed to before.

    I think the 650 format is the big difference. Going over roots and rock step-ups the bike just seems to float. It doesnt have that sudden loss of momentum I've always felt on the 26 version. It feels more like a 29er, but doesn't have the sluggish feeling when accelerating that I have experienced on 29ers. This thing feels no different to a 26 inch bike, until you realise its flowing over stuff that would normally be sucking up momentum.

    It also feels more balanced compared to my old Reign (and my Anthem for that matter). I was worried big wheels on the small frame might not feel right but I really cant tell the difference. Launches and lands smooth and seems much more capable than I'm game enough to try....In case you can't tell I'm pretty wrapped in it

  47. #47
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    So I have done some riding on my Reign with the 7.5x2 rear shock. I endend up shimming the shock to keep it from bottoming on my front derailleur cable. I put a 2mm shim in the air sleve and it alters the rear travel to about 140mm. This also puts the bb height at 13.5"The head angle changes to roughly 66.5 degrees.
    This setup definitely makes the bike feel more like a trail bike and it is great for those long pedal rides. I think I still prefer the 7.875x2.25 rear shock for the more aggressive riding even with the higher BB. Ultimately I think I would want to get an angle set to steepen the head angle when running the shorter i2i shock.
    I have also been running a Turner Sultan with a 150mm fox float front and 650b wheels. When compared to the giant the turner feels like a much stiffer more efficient trail bike.
    All the setups seem to benifit from the 650b platform but I like climbing on the Turner the best. On the flip side the long travel Reign in the desserts of Southern Utah is an amazing ride.

  48. #48
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    I will try and get some pics posted of the various 650b reign setups later this week for you guys.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj1011 View Post
    So I have done some riding on my Reign with the 7.5x2 rear shock. I endend up shimming the shock to keep it from bottoming on my front derailleur cable. I put a 2mm shim in the air sleve and it alters the rear travel to about 140mm. This also puts the bb height at 13.5"The head angle changes to roughly 66.5 degrees.
    This setup definitely makes the bike feel more like a trail bike and it is great for those long pedal rides. I think I still prefer the 7.875x2.25 rear shock for the more aggressive riding even with the higher BB. Ultimately I think I would want to get an angle set to steepen the head angle when running the shorter i2i shock.
    I have also been running a Turner Sultan with a 150mm fox float front and 650b wheels. When compared to the giant the turner feels like a much stiffer more efficient trail bike.
    All the setups seem to benifit from the 650b platform but I like climbing on the Turner the best. On the flip side the long travel Reign in the desserts of Southern Utah is an amazing ride.
    My Meta 55 has a BB of 13.5 " with a F140.Both my 140mm bikes get about 2" of sag at the BB .So I the find the BB too low. Lower than my AX 29er sagged.
    The Reign should get at least 2" of sag at the BB.

    I was wondering how stiff the Reign is, It is a very light frame. My 09 trance has similar shaped top tube and frame weight and is flexy up front. Doesn't have the beefed up tapered head tube though.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    I ride mostly in Tai Mo Shan, I wanna try Mui Wo also, my friends told me it`s a good trail. I rode on other side of that island 6 months ago, the trail is Bloody Rocky!!
    Hey Drummer,
    PM sent.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I was wondering how stiff the Reign is, It is a very light frame. My 09 trance has similar shaped top tube and frame weight and is flexy up front. Doesn't have the beefed up tapered head tube though.
    The front end of the Reign seems plenty stiff to me. In fact one of the big revelations for me has been how precise the steering is over the rough. No feeling of the front end 'springing' offline over the rough. Having said that my previous ride was the 2005 Reign and I'm still riding a 2010 Anthem X0. Nether of them could be said to have overly stiff front ends!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I was wondering how stiff the Reign is, It is a very light frame. My 09 trance has similar shaped top tube and frame weight and is flexy up front. Doesn't have the beefed up tapered head tube though.
    The front end of the Reign seems plenty stiff to me. In fact one of the big revelations for me has been how precise the steering is over the rough. No feeling of the front end 'springing' offline over the rough. Having said that my previous ride was the 2005 Reign and I'm still riding a 2010 Anthem X0. Nether of them could be said to have overly stiff front ends!

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    I have not found the Reign to be a particularly stiff bike. I run a 10mm thru axle in the rear to help out a bit but compared to my other bikes I can feel the flex. The flex at times is bothersome but sometimes it is fun to load it side to side and create a rebound whip effect.

  54. #54
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    just to be sure we're all comparing apples to apples, are you all speaking of the tapered headtube reign? i've had both, and the tapered is noticeably stiffer.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by onespeedpaul View Post
    just to be sure we're all comparing apples to apples, are you all speaking of the tapered headtube reign? i've had both, and the tapered is noticeably stiffer.
    Yeah. The 2012 Reign which has the 'newest' size taper.

  56. #56
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    Anyone here know if a 2010 Anthem X (alu) Can fit a 650b rear wheel?

  57. #57
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    Giant Anthem ?

    "Anyone here know if a 2010 Anthem X (alu) Can fit a 650b rear wheel?"

    Hey rass3460 ! - Check out the thread below about May 21, 2011. Maybe someone there can help you out directly with your questions on the Anthem rear triangle.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/giant-an...nt-710940.html

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    Thanks for the link.

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    Sorry for noob question...What's the potential ride problem resulting from too much BB clearance?

    I'm a recent convert to 650b (now riding 29er). I sympathize with LBS sick of too many wheel sizes. Some LBS have no 650b, which is fine. But at least one LBS expressed a clear bias against 650b, with little or no direct experience on them. That's not right.

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  60. #60
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    2009 giant reign doesn´t fit to 650b

    hi

    i build up a tricky trail bike for BBS (bike mountaineering in high alpine is called bbs in austria). so i have choosen a giant reign 2009 because i believed i can also equip it with 650b.

    it doesn´t work
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Giant 2011 Reign 650b with photo-rimg0088.jpg  

    Giant 2011 Reign 650b with photo-rimg0089.jpg  

    .
    excuse my bad english, this is not my native language ... I'll try to improve!
    greetings from...Austria
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzOne20 View Post
    hi

    i build up a tricky trail bike for BBS (bike mountaineering in high alpine is called bbs in austria). so i have choosen a giant reign 2009 because i believed i can also equip it with 650b.

    it doesn´t work
    You can still run 650b in the front and gain 70% of the benefit. Even use the same tubes unless you go tubeless

  62. #62
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    too late, get a new frame for the 650b project ;-)
    will use this bike only für heavy tours
    .
    excuse my bad english, this is not my native language ... I'll try to improve!
    greetings from...Austria
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  63. #63
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    Band aid solution, but what about running 2.25 tires?
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  64. #64
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    Hold it! A friend of mine just tried to build a 650b Giant Reign,brand new 2012, and the tire does not fit the frame! It is basically line to line on the lower arch.I believe that he is using Kenda 2.35s. What went wrong?

    gerG
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    "Specifications are subject to change without prior notice"
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  66. #66
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    Put that 2.35 nev up front and a 2.3 neo at rear. The neo is great.

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    i have a 2010 giant trance X with 190x51 shox (so, how i have 147mm on rear).. I also have a 650b rim and tire for front fork (which is a fox talas 150 2010), anyone tried to fit a 650b rim and tire on the rear of a trance X 2010 bike ? I guess a 650b 2.10 rear tire (neomoto? schwalbe?) should fit, but I cannot purchase a whole 650b rear wheel, just for testing
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  68. #68
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    SWEET is right. Maybe a bit shorter fork?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG View Post
    Hold it! A friend of mine just tried to build a 650b Giant Reign,brand new 2012, and the tire does not fit the frame! It is basically line to line on the lower arch.I believe that he is using Kenda 2.35s. What went wrong?

    gerG
    The kenda 2.35 is too big to fit in the swing arm, drummercat is correct, put the kenda up front and use 2.3 neomoto out back

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    friggin sweet

  71. #71
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    Sorry guys for asking, but I've read the whole thread a few times but still a little confused.

    I also have the 2011 Reign (just like drummercat) in Medium frame size. I've upgraded the entire drivetrain to XT 3x10 and the brakes are next - going with SLX because I'm not happy with the Elixir 5's... The 150mm Fox fork and RP2 are stock. Hell, even the wheels and tires are stock, which is the whole reason why I'm here posting. The stock wheels and 2.3 Nevs are heavy and slow!

    I've been wanting a 650b/27.5 bike for a while now, but since only the smaller companies are making them right now, they are out of my budget, especially since I've only had the Reign for about a year. I just can't buy a new $4000 bike at this time. So I was hoping to convert my Reign to 650b/27.5 and give it a whirl for another year until I buy a true 650b/27.5 bike in which the "Big 3" (Spec, Trek, Giant) will most likely have an offering under $3000.

    With that being said, I'm willing to throw down no more than $500 on a good 650b/27.5 wheelset that will last and then I'll just swap them out when I do get a dedicated 650b/27.5 bike down the road.

    Could someone please give me some wheelset and tire suggestions? Stan's Flow EX, Arch EX (not available yet), TL28, etc... Also need tires too...

    My local trails are pretty tame by "Mountain" standards as I'm not doing an bomb runs!!! haha - I wish!! Pretty much flat, technical, rocky, rooty single track with short steep climbs and drops and small jumps. South Florida doesn't offer a whole lot of varied terrain, but the trail builders have done a great job on several trails down here. Regardless, the stock 26ers are just so damn slow, especially with all the 29ers zipping around. I also like to run tubeless so my psi is in the mid 30's which doesn't help either. Don't get me wrong, I love the Reign and it's actually too much bike for my trails, but a 29er wouldn't suit my riding style as I like to flick and pop off anything I possibly can and I will always try to get some air if possible (I don't care if its 1" or 3' drop) as long as I'm having fun because I know the Reign can soak it up. I've tried to ride my trails on a 29er and I couldn't ride it the same way... Sure, I could roll over things alot easier and alot faster, but I could'nt flick the bike around the same nor could I take the same 2-3 foot jumps the same. Maybe I just need to give it more time? Or maybe I need to try 650b/27.5??
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by guppie View Post
    Sorry guys for asking, but I've read the whole thread a few times but still a little confused. Or maybe I need to try 650b/27.5??
    the '11 and newer reign is truly the multi-tool of bikes!! I would suggest building or buying just a new front 650b wheel at first, and use that on what you've got.

    as far as which wheel, i would recommend a hope pro2 hub, pacenti TL28 rim, laced with swiss comp spokes, topped with a 2.3 neo moto ghetto tubeless, if you can lace it yourself should run you a little less than $250 total, and you'll have a great wheel you can swap onto any other fork in the future.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG View Post
    Hold it! A friend of mine just tried to build a 650b Giant Reign,brand new 2012, and the tire does not fit the frame! It is basically line to line on the lower arch.I believe that he is using Kenda 2.35s. What went wrong?

    gerG
    You picked the largest tires you could find. Try a smaller tire. The 2.35 Nevegals are huge.

  74. #74
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    Really hope Giant will build this bike as a true 650B with the ability to accept the new tall tires. In the mean time what a nice conversion to work with.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  75. #75
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    I'm running the American Classics on my 2012 Reign. Don't know what their worth in your neck of the woods but you should be able to find a pair under 500. I was running them with swalbe racing Ralph's. They were great but easily damaged in the side walls. Trying the pancetti's now which so far seem great and have awesome grip in the loose stuff.
    I would go the whole hog and do both wheels. Don't think you would notice the benefits just changing the front. I'm. Loving mine.

  76. #76
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    I don't have the first clue as how to build and lace my own wheelset - I wish I had both the time and knowledge! Which online vendor do you recommend? Why not go 27.5 fr and rr at the same time? Will I have any problems with rear clearance? Depending on total price, I would like to get the wheelset fr and rr.
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  77. #77
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    I say go front only for one if your budget is limited, but more importantly I'm a huge advocate of running a slightly larger front wheel regardless if it 29/27.5 or 27.5/26, motorbike of the offroad variety figured out a few decades ago that it is for the better

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by guppie View Post
    Sorry guys for asking, but I've read the whole thread a few times but still a little confused.

    I also have the 2011 Reign (just like drummercat) in Medium frame size. I've upgraded the entire drivetrain to XT 3x10 and the brakes are next - going with SLX because I'm not happy with the Elixir 5's... The 150mm Fox fork and RP2 are stock. Hell, even the wheels and tires are stock, which is the whole reason why I'm here posting. The stock wheels and 2.3 Nevs are heavy and slow!

    I've been wanting a 650b/27.5 bike for a while now, but since only the smaller companies are making them right now, they are out of my budget, especially since I've only had the Reign for about a year. I just can't buy a new $4000 bike at this time. So I was hoping to convert my Reign to 650b/27.5 and give it a whirl for another year until I buy a true 650b/27.5 bike in which the "Big 3" (Spec, Trek, Giant) will most likely have an offering under $3000.

    With that being said, I'm willing to throw down no more than $500 on a good 650b/27.5 wheelset that will last and then I'll just swap them out when I do get a dedicated 650b/27.5 bike down the road.

    Could someone please give me some wheelset and tire suggestions? Stan's Flow EX, Arch EX (not available yet), TL28, etc... Also need tires too...

    My local trails are pretty tame by "Mountain" standards as I'm not doing an bomb runs!!! haha - I wish!! Pretty much flat, technical, rocky, rooty single track with short steep climbs and drops and small jumps. South Florida doesn't offer a whole lot of varied terrain, but the trail builders have done a great job on several trails down here. Regardless, the stock 26ers are just so damn slow, especially with all the 29ers zipping around. I also like to run tubeless so my psi is in the mid 30's which doesn't help either. Don't get me wrong, I love the Reign and it's actually too much bike for my trails, but a 29er wouldn't suit my riding style as I like to flick and pop off anything I possibly can and I will always try to get some air if possible (I don't care if its 1" or 3' drop) as long as I'm having fun because I know the Reign can soak it up. I've tried to ride my trails on a 29er and I couldn't ride it the same way... Sure, I could roll over things alot easier and alot faster, but I could'nt flick the bike around the same nor could I take the same 2-3 foot jumps the same. Maybe I just need to give it more time? Or maybe I need to try 650b/27.5??
    650B is no magic bullet for speed. Tires will make more difference. 650B will give you more cornering traction and stability in loose conditions.Try some fast 26" tires. Try a 2.4 Rocket Ron Evolution on the front and a 2.4 x king racesport on the rear. These are the fastest trail tires I've ever used and much faster than any 650B tire/ wheel combo I have, besides a 650B 2.25 Racing Ralph. I'm sure you don't want them on a Reign. If you think you need a little more grunt up front then the Hans Dampf in Pacestar is not a slow tire . I suggest the Ro Ro first as it has very good cornering traction and noticeably smoother over rough terrain. Until the x king is available in 2.4 x 650B I'd leave an xking 2.4 x 26 on the back. They have speed to burn and are a tall but narrow tire. I can even notice an increase in speed from a Ra Ra 2.4. A HD or No Ni in pacestar in 650b on the front will give you some more stabilty and traction. The pacestar version has ample traction.Beware though , a heavy 650B front wheel on the slackish head angle of your Reign will feel very 29erish.I much prefer heavy 26" wheel at 67.5 degree for most trails.My Ax29er and lightweight wheels at 69.3 degrees is more nimble than my 26" Tx at 67.5 with med weight 650B front. That's with identical wheelbase and longer chain stays.Unless you need that extra stability and traction stay with 26" or go with a TX29er and light wheel/tire combo. Ro Ro 2.25 is superb in 29".
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 11-17-2012 at 12:25 PM.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    650B is no magic bullet for speed. Tires will make more difference. 650B will give you more cornering traction and stability in loose conditions.Try some fast 26" tires. Try a 2.4 Rocket Ron Evolution on the front and a 2.4 x king racesport on the rear. These are the fastest trail tires I've ever used and much faster than any 650B tire/ wheel combo I have, besides a 650B 2.25 Racing Ralph. I'm sure you don't want them on a Reign. If you think you need a little more grunt up front then the Hans Dampf in Pacestar is not a slow tire . I suggest the Ro Ro first as it has very good cornering traction and noticeably smoother over rough terrain. Until the x king is available in 2.4 x 650B I'd leave an xking 2.4 x 26 on the back. They have speed to burn and are a tall but narrow tire. I can even notice an increase in speed from a Ra Ra 2.4. A HD or No Ni in pacestar in 650b on the front will give you some more stabilty and traction. The pacestar version has ample traction.Beware though , a heavy 650B front wheel on the slackish head angle of your Reign will feel very 29erish.I much prefer heavy 26" wheel at 67.5 degree for most trails.My Ax29er and lightweight wheels at 69.3 degrees is more nimble than my 26" Tx at 67.5 with med weight 650B front. That's with identical wheelbase and longer chain stays.Unless you need that extra stability and traction stay with 26" or go with a TX29er and light wheel/tire combo. Ro Ro 2.25 is superb in 29".
    I swear, I was thinking the same exact thing this morning while I was riding... A 650b up front and 26er in rear would make the slack head angle even more pronounced even if I swapped the 2 spacers on top of the stem. That's why I was asking if it would be better to conver both fr and rr together.

    I priced out 650b Arch EX with Stan's hubs = $600. With Hope hubs = $750. And that's not including $150 for tires...

    I'll give the 26" Rocket Ron 2.4 up front a try. What do you suggest for rear? How about 2.3 Nobby Nic fr and rr?
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  80. #80
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    I haven't used the No Ni 2.4 for a year now but I'm sure the xking 2.4 racesport is much faster for the rear and for the front, the Ro Ro 2.4 is faster and I'm sure would have more grip until pushed very hard on hrdpack. If your worried about the Ro Ro then I would suggest the Hans Dampf in Pacestar not trailstar compound. It feels the same speed as a No Ni but has more grip. The Ro Ro is more supple,smoother and faster.It's light weight means it gives less stabilty and more agile steering. It has a tactile grippy feel. Bit like hanging on with your fingers.The HD has a nice grippy feel but it is has more , and stiffer edge blocks,and heavier , so you can push it harder in all conditions with more stability. Take a look at the two treads and there is similarities in the tread design, especially the 2013 Ro Ro.The 2013 Ro Ro looks more versatile than the 2012.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 11-19-2012 at 12:06 AM.

  81. #81
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    I think I'm going to buy the Stan's Flow EX 650b with 3.30 hubs. Can someone please tell me what 3.30 hub conversion kits I need to buy? I was using the stock Mavic E540 wheelset with Fox 32 Float RL with 15QR thru-axle, 150mm travel up front and Shimano Deore 32H hub in the rear. This is my first 15mm thru axle fork so I'm pretty sure I need the 15mm thru axle conversion kit, which look like hub adapters, for the 3.30 hub up front, right? But I'm confused about the rear. I always thought the front and rear were standard Shimano 9mm x 135mm QR axles? I'm confused because I see several kits:

    10mm x 135mm with thru axle
    12mm x 135mm with thru axle
    12mm x 142mm with thru axle

    I just don't want to order the wrong part... Could I use the stiffer 12mm x 135mm? Or does my frame not have the proper size/width dropouts?

    And how hard or difficult is it to install these conversion kits? Do I need to buy another specific $100 Park tool???

    Again, this is a 2011 Giant Reign 1.

    Thanks in advance
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  82. #82
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    If you had the 9mm QR on there previously you need to get the 10 x 135 kit. This replaces the wimpy 9mm QR with a nice solid 10mm thru axle which still fits your dropouts. The 12mm would be to big.

    If the wheel/hub doesn't come with an axle I highly recommend the DT Swiss RWS QR 10 x 135 axle. Once the wheel is tightened you pull out the handle and rotate it to whatever position you want. Very nice piece.

    Yes on the 15mm up front and your all set with axle already

    If you order the wheels that way there will be nothing else to do besides mount em up and ride. You may have to slightly adjust your High and Low setting on the RD due to very slight differences between the old and new hub.

    Last edited by skidad; 12-02-2012 at 06:51 AM.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  83. #83
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    I used to have a 9mm DT Swiss QR like that on my Stumpy, which I really liked, so I know what you're talking about. I'll need to buy a 10mm axle but oddly, JensonUSA doesn't even sell one... So where can I buy it?

    I should have posted this before, buy these, right?

    1. 15mm Conv for ZTR/3.30/3.30Ti Front Hub

    2. 10x135 Thru Axle Conversion for ZTR/3.30/3.30Ti Rear Hub

    3. 10mm QR thru axle (http://www...)
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  84. #84
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    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    I've got some bikes that use 135 x 12 maxle if I want to swap wheels to 135QR bikes I use one of these:
    Sun Ringle Rear Conversion Axle 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com.

    May be another option?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Oops, I searched axle and forgot about skewer...
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I've got some bikes that use 135 x 12 maxle if I want to swap wheels to 135QR bikes I use one of these:
    Sun Ringle Rear Conversion Axle 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com.

    May be another option?
    This looks pretty sweet and saves me $25... I could use this with my existing Shimano 9mm QR skewer and the Stan's 3.30 12mm thru axle hub?
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

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    Just finished my conversion to 650b with Flow EX's. I'll post pictures soon.

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    Also, Energiser, did you find you had to limit either the fork or the shock? Mine seems to be just fine and very unlikely that the wheels will hit seat post or frame.

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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelliman View Post
    Just finished my conversion to 650b with Flow EX's. I'll post pictures soon.
    Looking forward to pics and ride review
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    First ride was today. Was a little hard to compare certain things, because I rode in a place I've only been a few times and the conditions were much different than normal due to the recent rain. I can say that the downhill felt very good. It rolled with very little resistance and I could feel a definite difference rolling through bump sections that would normally throw me around the bike a lot more.

    I think the best way to explain the feeling was everything felt better connected. Everything seemed to flow. Entrances to corners was faster and I would exit them carrying more speed than before, while never feeling like the wheel was too big to corner well.

    Over all It felt good, but I'm still not completely sure about it. I plan on riding a place I've done hundreds of times tomorrow so I will keep you guys updated on what I think on more familiar ground.

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    Could you take some better pics of all the clearances for us.

    Give it a bunch of rides then throw the 26" wheels on and difference and improvement will become evident for the 650's.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    I wanted to add that the tires I'm running, VeeRubber 2.1's look very minimalist, but even with only a 2.1 tire gripped very well through corners and kept great roll speed.

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    There's your benefit of 650B.

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    I've done a few rides on these rims so far and today it became so vividly clear how great this wheel size is. First off the Giant Reign is a great bike to begin with, but throwing these wheels on here makes it feel limitless. The climbing on it doesn't feel so sluggish like it does when trying to power up a 29er up a hill, much better acceleration, but it still gives a great benefit of rolling over objects better. There's a section where I was riding today (Aliso Woods for those who know the area) that comes out of a very fast corner, straight into a short steep, rutted-out climb. This was the second time I had been here so I didn't know it was around the corner, but I quickly jammed down a feel gears and flew straight up the steep section like it was nothing. I looked back at it and could barely contemplate what had just happened. Very good feeling.

    Secondly, the trail I went down today is filled with rock gardens, switch backs, drops, etc. Very varied trail is the point. Never has a trail felt so fluid even with that many obstacles. It just clicks.

  99. #99
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    I finally did the conversion and like a dumbass, I tried with a pair of less expensive wheels (Sun Inferno 27) and the Neo-Moto 2.3 tires would not setup tubeless; however, I decided to do it right and got myself a set of ZTR Flow EX with 3.30 hub and had absolutely no problem getting it tubeless with a floor pump. I just needed to buy the 15mm hub adapter for the front.

    I'm sure about total overall weight, as I don't have a scale to a true measurement, but I'm pretty sure these are no heavier than the stock DT Swiss EX540/Nevegal setup. I only rode them once for an hour at my local trails and I'm not really sure what to think... It also doesn't help that I haven't ridden in almost 5 weeks and just got over the flu so I was dehydrated and weak... I need to ride again this coming weekend when I'm fully recovered and post some comments.

    I must admit, these rims look nice! I posted some pics for those interested.

    <img src="http://home.comcast.net/~amurray99/mtb/flowex.jpg" /img>
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  100. #100
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    fyi, the first 4 pics are just rims only (no tires mounted) in case you are going with a different tire...
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

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