Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 115
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ridetheridge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    440

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    What 29er where you riding ? Is there anything you miss about the 29er ? What do you like most about the 650b ?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Zerort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    779
    Airborne Goblin - great bike.

    Built up a rigid steel 650b and love it. Would not go back to 29, but that is just me.
    by Silentfoe
    I'm satisfied knowing that what I wear during my "day" job makes me more of a man than you'll ever be.

  3. #3
    bike addict
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    207
    Im in the process of switching. My Tallboy is outgoing and bronson frame in hand awaiting fork.

  4. #4
    NedwannaB
    Reputation: JMac47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    10,479
    Quote Originally Posted by chillindrdude View Post
    Im in the process of switching. My Tallboy is outgoing and bronson frame in hand awaiting fork.
    TB outgoing, as in?

    Considering one. Just curious. Have a 650B El Bastardo myself.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  5. #5
    orthonormal
    Reputation: andy f's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,206
    I replaced a Specialized Epic 29 with a RM Altitude and have no regrets whatsoever. The Altitude is a better smooth terrain climber, a much better technical climber, and so much better descending that a comparison is absurd. Much of the improvement is due to geometry and suspension differences rather than wheel size, though.

    I still have my 8 year old Ventana El Commandante 29er SS, though. I have no interest in a smaller wheel size for singlespeeding, where it's all about momentum on the steeper climbs. The bigger wheels are a real help in maintaining momentum when I'm climbing over roots and rocks.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slowrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,764
    I still have my Tracer 29 but my Tracer 275 gets all the saddle time.
    I like the geometry, standover, plush ride and fun handling of the 275 better. the 29rs most glaring fault for me is the steap head angle and long stays make the front change direction quickly and the back eng changes direction a bit slower; like multiple personalities. The 275 has my favored geometry from the 26rs with more stability and 6" of travel!

  7. #7
    NedwannaB
    Reputation: JMac47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    10,479
    Quote Originally Posted by andy f View Post
    I replaced a Specialized Epic 29 with a RM Altitude and have no regrets whatsoever. The Altitude is a better smooth terrain climber, a much better technical climber, and so much better descending that a comparison is absurd. Much of the improvement is due to geometry and suspension differences rather than wheel size, though.

    I still have my 8 year old Ventana El Commandante 29er SS, though. I have no interest in a smaller wheel size for singlespeeding, where it's all about momentum on the steeper climbs. The bigger wheels are a real help in maintaining momentum when I'm climbing over roots and rocks.
    Interesting, andy. One would think the Epic would win out over the climbing you mentioned, but with the type of bike the Altitude is, the descending advantage makes sense. I too have a 29 SS, and a converted 650B SS also (tho I don't quite have the cockpit setup right yet) have to agree on the bigger wheels even with their wagon wheel issues have an advantage with the momentum thing.
    Last edited by JMac47; 05-14-2013 at 03:27 PM. Reason: typo
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  8. #8
    meow meow
    Reputation: b-kul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,622
    my 29 stumpy broke, been on my 150mm 26, liking it better. might give 650b a go.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vizsladog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,320
    I had numerous 29ers over the last 4 years. I switched from a kHs flagstaff and the 650 is a better bike in every aspect.

  10. #10
    orthonormal
    Reputation: andy f's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,206
    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Interesting, andy. One would think the Epic would win out over the climbing you mentioned, but with the type of bike the Altitude is, the descending advantage makes sense. I too have a 29 SS, and a converted 650B SS also (tho I don't quite have the cockpit setup right yet) have to agree on the bigger wheels even with their wagon wheel issues have an advantage with the momentum thing.
    It was a surprise to me but then again, I had been underwhelmed by the Epic for quite a while and rarely rode it any more because I felt so much faster on the SS. I kept the brain threshold set low so even though it only had 90 mm travel, it felt a bit sluggish under power. With the brain threshold set higher, it wasn't all that much better than a hardtail.

    Also, the Altitude is less than 1/2 lb. heavier (it's the 790 MSL) and is just a stellar climber. I think people looking for 120 mm travel 650B bikes would be blown away by the Altitude, especially in the steeper angled/more linear linkage rate settings. Mine is in one of the slacker/more progressive settings and I notice that the suspension moves more under power now than it did in the neutral setting but it descends and soaks up bigger hits better this way.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  11. #11
    J:
    J: is offline
    no E:
    Reputation: J:'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,712
    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    my 29 stumpy broke, been on my 150mm 26, liking it better. might give 650b a go.
    Seatstay?

  12. #12
    Ambi-Turner
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    124
    I had three niners - Paragon HT, RIP9 and then Superfly 100 Carbon. Each was a great bike at what they were designed for. My riding has evolved into lots of steeps, drops and chunk with twisty singletrack on a regular basis. The niners are too slow to change direction and climbing steeps is a pain. My carbine 275 does everything exceptionally well. Only drawback is smaller contact patch and doesn't hold momentum as well.

    These are small differences though and the balance and playfulness of the 275 wheels is perfect for me at 5ft 8. I might own another niner if it can change direction as easy as my Carbine and handle just as well. The rollover of the wagon wheels is a great advantage.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tortfeasor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    283
    I agree with Throttlemire's sentiments. I recently sold a Sultan for a Carbine 275. The Carbine is more fun. However I do notice the momentum issue once and awhile. That said, I'm still undecided between it and my Yelli Screamy 29er hard tail as it is as much fun and as capable as the Carbine on most trails.
    Evil Following
    Intense Carbine 275
    Giant Anthem Advanced
    Canfield Yelli Screamy
    Tarmac SL4
    Ducati M1100s
    KTM 350 XCF-W

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    168
    Sold my tallboy carbon for a bronson carbon. Haven't looked back. The difference downhill as well as rocky chunk is unreal. Only place tallboy was better was rolling desert trails. I ride more all mt stuff so 275 bronson is better for me.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    169
    Never been on a 29r and don't think I'd ever want to since my first tires on my Carbine 275 were almost 28" tall WTB Wolverines which I ditched for some RR tiers that measure 27.5" exactly. Only a half inch but the WTB tires made the bike feel a bit awkward as compared to the RR tires, tread may also have something to do with it. Did notice, on my first ride which has a very technical climb with switchbacks on rocky sections, that I couldn't get the bike around like I'm used to with my 26" bikes and failed the climb twice. It's also early in the season though and I typically don't start making that climb normally until mid-late June.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,512
    Quote Originally Posted by tortfeasor View Post
    That said, I'm still undecided between it and my Yelli Screamy 29er hard tail as it is as much fun and as capable as the Carbine on most trails.
    I'm trying to decide between getting a Yelli or going FS. I know FS would be more comfortable, but I have nothing against fun on a HT either. Do you use clips or flat pedals? (I ask because I use flats and its harder to keep my feet connected on a HT than FS...)

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tartosuc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    670
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    I'm trying to decide between getting a Yelli or going FS. I know FS would be more comfortable, but I have nothing against fun on a HT either. Do you use clips or flat pedals? (I ask because I use flats and its harder to keep my feet connected on a HT than FS...)
    personnaly i'm seling my 26" fs Am and keeping the yelli..its just so much fun to ride..this is the one 29er that would not neccessairly want me to go smaller in wheel size.
    i will get another fully eventually but i really dont know if it will be 650b or 29er geometry have evolved a lot in the 29er side ... most of the 29 mentionned here so far have the "old school" geometry wich tend to emphasis the bad traits of the 29er wheel. newer design minimise that.

    i'm not against any wheel size, i'm just debating from my experience
    expensive cars are a waste of money. Expensive bikes...not so much!

  18. #18
    jrm
    jrm is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,750
    I rode a Turner Sultan FS that was later converted to 650b (badly). I kinda miss how the sultan just grinded and crawled over stuff on technical climbs. For this 5'8.5" guy a 650b FS bike has a bigger fun factor then the 29 FS. I still have a rigid Niner EMD that i like a lot.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,342
    I had 26ers for years. I tried 650b & was sold on the larger wheel so I thought 29er would be the next step in the right direction. Personally the 29er wasn't more of a good thing. Though it held better momentum & rollover it felt sluggish accelerating and the bike was harder to get the front wheel up. I eventually built a long travel 26er (100mm travel now) using a 29er front wheel and 650b rear wheel. The bike has that nice anti endo front wheel but accelerates & lifts because of the smaller rear wheel.

  20. #20
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
    Reputation: Kirk Pacenti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,629
    yes.
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tortfeasor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    I'm trying to decide between getting a Yelli or going FS. I know FS would be more comfortable, but I have nothing against fun on a HT either. Do you use clips or flat pedals? (I ask because I use flats and its harder to keep my feet connected on a HT than FS...)
    I use clips. That said, the only time I wish for suspension on the Yelli is when the trail is fast and littered with braking bumps or cross-ruts from rain. The best of both worlds is to have a nice FS bike and a low budget Yelli. I have about $1K inot my Yelli. I picked up the frame used for $450, a Marz Micro Ti fork new on Huck N Roll for $280, Dt Swiss 430 wheels on eBay for $100 and then parts from my part bin. It is not fancy, but is as fun as my expensive Carbine.
    Evil Following
    Intense Carbine 275
    Giant Anthem Advanced
    Canfield Yelli Screamy
    Tarmac SL4
    Ducati M1100s
    KTM 350 XCF-W

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    95
    I've typically had two bikes (mtn) to choose from. An XC hardtail and a trail bike. A couple yrs back I replaced the old 26" Klein XC bike with a 2011 Specialized stumpjumper expert carbon 29r (a stunningly beautiful bike!) and fought it for a year trying to get it sorted out to my liking.

    During the yr I had it I tried different configurations in the cockpit with different bars, stem angle, changed the travel of the fork, moved the saddle around to adjust the weighting of the tires, changed the tires and nothing I did made the bike behave. Towards the end some local guys were suggesting I get wider bars to try to get it to turn but at that point I'd changed the whole front end already and was sick of chasing the problem.
    In the end I resigned myself that it just wasn't for me.**

    For me it just handled like a buick and if I tried to hamfist it into turning it would understeer then the front tire would either wash or grab. Sometimes it would grab so it abruptly it would burp the tire. Once I tore the tire off the rim.

    Because the bike was basically no damn fun, I was choosing the trail bike so often the 29r was gathering dust. The trail bike was 650b front 26 back, and since has been replaced (broke frame) with another trail bike. (Knolly endorphin 650 front 26 back). The 29r has been sold and my next XC HT bike will very likely be the Ritchey 650b.

    ** If I was doing long distance races, or maybe riding smooth flowy trails with good sight lines and no need for responsiveness the 29r would be appropriate.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    175
    yep...old bike Salsa Dos Niner XL...new bike Jamis Nemesis XL...old bike felt like a couch, had a 72 degree head angle, long stays, always felt difficult to control on twisty trails...new bike: buttah...

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: furywhip's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    48
    I'm thinking about it. I currently ride a '11 RIP 9. Before that I had a Banshee Paradox. Both were L frames, I'm 6'3 205lbs. I love the RIP 9, but it does feel like it's missing a little nimbleness and this has started to bother me as of late as my riding is progressing. A buddy mentioned these to me and said they would probably be the perfect compromise.

    Currently have my eye on the Norco Sight Killer B. Hopefully within the next year I will make the switch.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,072
    I've owned at least one bike of all three wheel sizes. I'm never going back to 26", won't do 29ers again. I agree with the momentum of the 29ers, but the other traits I can't stand the slower steering, awful handling in the tight stuff, slow acceleration. 27.5 just works better for m e everywhere, I'm mostly a xc, light trail rider, on a singlespeed and a converted SC Blur XCc. The Blur is the best bike I've ever ridden and my ss is a great ride too. I can't believe some claiming that 29ers climb better, I never found that to be true, the fact is on a 29er, you have that rotational weight thing working against you on climbs, something I can't see anyone overcoming on the majority of climbs.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slowrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,764
    I've found that my Tracer 29 can get over short, steep rough stuff better than either 26 or 27.5 bikes, I've also found that gentle prolonged climbs are handled better by the 29r. Long steep climbs however feel harder at the peddles on a 29r to me; I will say that while those steep prolonged climbs feel easier on a 27.5 and much easier on a 26 at the peddles the smaller the wheels (shorter stays) the harder it is to keep the front wheel on the ground during those steep efforts. The 29r seems easier to keep the front on the ground during steep climbs, as long as my legs hold out. The 27.5 is the right compromise for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I've owned at least one bike of all three wheel sizes. I'm never going back to 26", won't do 29ers again. I agree with the momentum of the 29ers, but the other traits I can't stand the slower steering, awful handling in the tight stuff, slow acceleration. 27.5 just works better for m e everywhere, I'm mostly a xc, light trail rider, on a singlespeed and a converted SC Blur XCc. The Blur is the best bike I've ever ridden and my ss is a great ride too. I can't believe some claiming that 29ers climb better, I never found that to be true, the fact is on a 29er, you have that rotational weight thing working against you on climbs, something I can't see anyone overcoming on the majority of climbs.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,254
    I had an epic. Felt the same way. Always prefered the singlespeed. Unless I was going on a long fireroad day.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    35
    Well I have 140mm 29er (Stereo Super HPC 140 Race) and I like it. I don't love it but I like it. I didn't like my previous 26er as I am tall guy 187cm (6 feet and 2 inches). I always felt that 26 is like BMX for me. So I went for 29er and it was really different. At the begging I was disappointed with how it handles but I adjusted my riding style and now is OK. However I constantly feel is kind of big bike even with proper frame size. I wish I could try 650B to compare. I had option to buy 650b instead of 29er but I read a lot opinions that it's only marginal difference. Now I am not so sure as 29er is kinda' point and shoot bike. Not that playful as I'd expected and it flex like hell. I can feel my back wheel escaping under my seat almost every time I take harder turn. To be honest so much cash to learn that it's not ideal bike is hard to swallow. Unfortunately there was no 650b demo bikes and still there are none to test in Ireland.

    My bottom line is. 29er is not that great as I expected. It has serious issues with playfulness and flex (even my supposed to be one of the best on the market). It is better than 26 for me as I hated small wheels, however I miss this jump for joy feeling. I think I should have gambled and choose 650B version instead of 29er but... too late now. Anyway I just wanted to share my thoughts. It's hard for me to say what 650B would be as I never ride one but I guess it would be more interesting bike to own. Long travel FS 29er is weird mix after all. Question is - Is it really just marginal difference between feeling of 26 and 650b bikes? Or actually you can feel the difference? I've seen one recently and it's almost indistinguishable form 26. Maybe few cm more per wheel.

    I am waiting for 28.whatever wheel size. I think it would be the best.

    If I could I would buy now Norco 650B bike (carbon or alu).

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kingdom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    75
    Started riding 26'' bikes until I tested out a 29'' Epic carbon. Loved it! Sold my 26'' and bought a Chumba HX2. Got bored of it so went back to 26''. Didn't like the small wheels so went to the more playful 29er option- the yelli screamy. I like the yelli but something was wrong. Test rode a 650b Kona and it was the bike I had been looking for! Sold all my 29ers (&26'') and bought the Explosif 650b. Wheel size is perfect for me. I just found 26'' to skitish and not efficient enough but found the 29ers a bit boring and compromised. 650b was spot on! Best of both worlds. Perfect comprise. Now looking to venture into FS 650b. No way am I going back to either 26'' or 29''.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdom View Post
    Started riding 26'' bikes until I tested out a 29'' Epic carbon. Loved it! Sold my 26'' and bought a Chumba HX2. Got bored of it so went back to 26''. Didn't like the small wheels so went to the more playful 29er option- the yelli screamy. I like the yelli but something was wrong. Test rode a 650b Kona and it was the bike I had been looking for! Sold all my 29ers (&26'') and bought the Explosif 650b. Wheel size is perfect for me. I just found 26'' to skitish and not efficient enough but found the 29ers a bit boring and compromised. 650b was spot on! Best of both worlds. Perfect comprise. Now looking to venture into FS 650b. No way am I going back to either 26'' or 29''.
    God damn it! I knew I should go with 650B instead of 29er... ahhh no way to sell mine now...

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    245
    I switched from a Sultan to a Zues, the Zues wins hands down on everything. Oddly enough I also have a Yeli and feel almost the same until the speed+gnar factor kicks in. If I had to pick between the two it would be a tough choice. Luckily I don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by tortfeasor View Post
    I agree with Throttlemire's sentiments. I recently sold a Sultan for a Carbine 275. The Carbine is more fun. However I do notice the momentum issue once and awhile. That said, I'm still undecided between it and my Yelli Screamy 29er hard tail as it is as much fun and as capable as the Carbine on most trails.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13

    Wanting to downgrade... Wheelsize....

    6 months or so ago I bought a Trance x1 29r, and I have had a blast on this bike over this time period, But now that my riding style is changing to more of an AM style with bigger drops / jumps I'm finding I cant throw it around as much to stay in control. Some of this would be because I'm hitting the trails with a lot more speed / confidence now so i feel limited where i never felt this a few months ago.

    For the fast flowing single track I find this bike to be very fast, controllable and enjoyable to ride. Just when it gets to the harder technical sections (Which i now thoroughly enjoy more!) I can't seem to always get the bike feeling right going into the feature on the trail. Climbing side of things the Trance generally powers through it all until you get to a couple of technical tight switchbacks where i tend to get stuck as there is just too much bike to get around the corner.

    I'm in the process of looking into a 650B Bike, trying to decide between the Norco Range or Scott Genius as i want something with more travel and a bigger 'Fun' Factor.

    The benefits I will get from going down to a 650B bike will far outweigh staying on a 29er considering my riding style. Just waiting to see the 2014 lineup of 650B's as some wont be far away before i make the swap.


    -TJ.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,412
    My 50 mile race this weekend was exactly that, and the 29er HT was a great choice. I'm on my 650b for pretty much every other off-road ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by kark View Post
    ** If I was doing long distance races, or maybe riding smooth flowy trails with good sight lines and no need for responsiveness the 29r would be appropriate.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Hill-Pumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    231
    I'm glad to hear people that made the switch are happy for the most part. I'm considering the move myself. When I first started doing this a few years ago, I bought from a shop that was very pro 29er. I started with a Stumpjumper HT 29, and then switched to a Anthem X 29er. I really like the Anthem on wide open flowing trail, but like many, hate it on the tighter stuff that I enjoy the most. I have done a couple of street demos on the Norco Range Killer B, which really seem to fit me well. After talking to my friend who works at a LBS,, his thought was that a Sight Killer B would be what would work for me. He even ventured a guess that I would sell the Anthem if I bought a Sight. Now I just have to wait for the 2014's to order one.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1
    I got the anthem x1 XL 29er about 3 months ago and have been riding it about own average 2-3 times per week. It's been a "good" bike for longer distance jeep track and smooth flowing single track. I entered an enduro Race a few weeks back and really came unstuck with the truck like steering on the anthem. I miss the nippy manoevrability of my old 26er. After taking a spin on a mates 26" reign the other day I feel that the anthem either needs to be traded in for an all mountain/trail the reign was fast grippy and took everything I threw at it. Just popped a dent into my anthem 29er rim today, it's been a temperamental ride from the get go. Looking keenly at the 750 Rocky Mountain, if budget will allow. Really enjoying researching this new modus operandi, I think my riding style is more gearing towards the flowy single track with jumps, drops and technical manoevering than the longer jeep track riding. Oh what to do... I am a total noob to the world of MTBing but the stoke is there!

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    36
    I've been searching for the perfect mountain bike (for me) for 25 years. Evolution started with fully rigid Diamondback Apex to Bridgestone MB-3 (added an elastomer fork) to Specialized FSR to Titus Quasimoto to Turner Flux. Then came the Spec FSR 29er. At 5'7", the 29 geo just never felt right. I could sure see some of the advantages of the bigger wheel, but the drawbacks in handling were too much. Now, I'm on a Banshee Spitfire V2 650b and I'm wondering where it's been all my life. Geo and wheel size combine for a really playful ride. I couldn't be happier. Finding what works for you can get expensive, but now that I'm here.....it was worth it. I lasted less than a year on a 29er.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    222
    I am stuck in the middle..I know I have posted this before but. I had for a short time a Lynskey Ridgeline 29er in size small. It was the only frame size (Lynskey) that I felt comfortable with. Received it built it up and felt like the bike was in control not me, the rider. On a 26er I could make that bike do what ever I wanted it to do not just there for the ride. So I bought a 26er Frame (Moots YBB) put a 650b on the front and couldn't be happier. Now I am riding a Soul Cycles Hooligan 26er with a 650b in the front and feel its dialed in just right. The wheel feels bigger but not like its hindering my riding. I feel that for larger riders the 29ers are the right size and the frames look right. The smaller frames for smaller riders still look weird to me..
    One Gear Under God

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,500
    Switch? Sure, all the time.

    Depends on what I'm riding and how I feel like riding. When I'm pushing my tech ability I'll grab the 429. If it's a trail I know, or otherwise feel in more a shreddy mood, it's the 650b.

  39. #39
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169
    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    Switch? Sure, all the time.

    Depends on what I'm riding and how I feel like riding. When I'm pushing my tech ability I'll grab the 429. If it's a trail I know, or otherwise feel in more a shreddy mood, it's the 650b.
    Great answer.

    In my case, the 29" is my wife; the 27.5" is my girlfriend
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    808
    Looking at a Rocky Mountain Altitude 730 for my first 27.5, I still love my 29er but as much as it climbs great and is very stable I miss the hard cornering of my 26. I do fly on the 29 so I think the 27.5 might fill the gap.. Just waitng to hear back from LBS if they can get me one. Looked at a Norco as well but LBS said they are all sold out of the 27.5 line already.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    I went from a Tallboy to a Bronson. Loving it, carve faster, descent as fast as the 29er even with smaller wheels, climbs as good as the 29er but the big difference is handling and overall feel. It just handles so well in tight situation that I'll trade some of the roll for the slicing it does in curves and tight single track terrain.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    808
    Does anyone make a 100mm travel 650? I had a 140 26 before and didnt like it for XC way to much travel, 100 is fine for me maybe even 120 would be ok if I had to. So far I can't find jack for what I want, I just might have to wait longer till the XC types come out.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    Santa Cruz makes the Solo which is 125mm. They market it as a trail bike but it can be easily used as a xc bike. The front shock angle might be a little slack but it should do fine. I will say it might be a matter of time before companies start switching current xc models to 27.5"

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    35
    Well... 100mm I would stay definitely with 29er for XC. Hard tail. Unless you are little person.

    650B is more for fun IMO and more travel. If you want proper XC machine I would go with 29er. Hard tail or full suss (short travel).

    In my opinion if you have say, 3K to spend. It's best to buy two decent bikes (650b - 140mm and 29er HT) rather than one expensive bike.

  45. #45
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
    Reputation: Kirk Pacenti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,629
    Quote Originally Posted by fahza29er View Post
    Does anyone make a 100mm travel 650? I had a 140 26 before and didnt like it for XC way to much travel, 100 is fine for me maybe even 120 would be ok if I had to. So far I can't find jack for what I want, I just might have to wait longer till the XC types come out.
    Yes, Morewood makes a 100mm travel 650b Zula XC frame, designed for 120mm forks. I'll be bringing some in shortly...
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti View Post
    Yes, Morewood makes a 100mm travel 650b Zula XC frame, designed for 120mm forks. I'll be bringing some in shortly...
    Those Morewood looks really nice! The bottom bracket measurements seem to be around 13.357 which will be great for clearing obstacles.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,138
    Yes

    Started on a Voodoo Canzo. Switched to a Scott Scale. Now on a converted rush.

    I bought the canzo because I really wanted to try a 29er. I loved the ability to crush trail and get great traction. I hated that frame because the stays were miles long, flexy, and the manitou radium was a better paperweight than shock.

    I traded it out for a Scott Scale 29er hardtail, and it was one of my favorite bikes ever. It was blindingly fast. Combine the added rollover of the 29" wheel with the responsiveness of an aluminum hardtail, and it was 29" lightning. The 17.2" stays kept steering snappy and the longer TT and shorter stem made it feel pretty natural. Unfortunately, A) I'm a gear whore and B) there are certain aspects of suspension that I prefer...like suspension, and added climbing ability (on the right design). I also became obsessed with buying a lefty.

    So....I bought the Rush when I realized they could be 650b converted. The stays are still short, so it makes for a snappy east coast handler. The BB is still low. The wheels are a decent compromise that gives some better rollover (noticeable compared to when I rode it 26", IMO), but allows for normal frame geometry without a dramatic increase in chainstay length. That's my biggest complaint about 29" designs...most people haven't figured out how to mix short chainstays with good climbing ability and longer (4+") travel.

    tl;dr 29ers definitely roll better, and I miss that. They're also more "tractive". I didn't have too much of a problem with fit or acceleration or any of that nonsense. I just hated the geometry on non-XC race bike frames. I am hoping specialized releases newer, 4 and 5" travel frames with the same short stays as the enduro.

  48. #48
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
    Reputation: Kirk Pacenti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,629
    Quote Originally Posted by gamalierlozada View Post
    Those Morewood looks really nice! The bottom bracket measurements seem to be around 13.357 which will be great for clearing obstacles.
    I'll have to double check, but I think it's actually 12.8".

    Cheers,
    KP
    Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; 06-27-2013 at 09:48 AM.
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    I took the measurements from what they show in the the drawing. Wheel center radius of 27.5" - 10mm (27.5/2 - .393). Maybe I got it wrong bit thats what you get from the print in their page. Just let us know Kirk.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    35
    My post from different forum:
    *************************

    You know. I learned something. You should have really 2 bikes. Long travel bike for fun should be 650B. End of story. Something 3K max.

    AND

    HT 29er. Something for 1-2K max.

    Why?

    Well. Without having my current bike I wouldn't know that(140mm full suss 29er). But long travel 29ers are not that much fun as 26 or 650b bikes (I guess). They are not that responsive and not flickable. Just because of the wheel size.

    29HT ( I rode one recently) on the other hand have advantages over smaller wheel sizes. They roll over stuff better, they are faster (better for longer runs) and they cushion road better because wheels size.

    Overall for XC I would go always HT 29er 100-120mm and for fun and messing around 650b 140-160mm.

    Thinking that one expensive bike would be good for everything was bad idea. I spent 3500K on it and now to achieve better flick-ability I have to spend 1K more (on wheels). That is 4500 Euro. I could have bought decent 650B bilke and decent HT29er for same money. Two bikes for two different things. One bike is OK but is just OK in both fields. Riding 140mm full suss 29er for more than 40Km is draining. How much I just discovered by borrowing HT29er recently. On the other side in mountains it's not that much fun as smaller wheels. Just flattens everything. Goes really fast and easy but I am more about fun and skills in that area not speed. Speed is cool for XC and long rides.

    So my hard earned (and expensive) advice to everyone is:

    For fun and trails get 650bike (like Norco) and for XC decent 29er (like Canyon). Same money. Two bikes. More fun and efficiency. One expensive bike to do all is bad idea.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: michael9218's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    277
    I ride neither a 26", 650b, or 29" bike.

    I have a B6 FS (converted Ellsworth Truth) and a 9'erBee HT (converted 650b carbon HT). Asymmetric wheels are the elixir of MTB joy. The bikes just feel more balanced with a larger front wheel than rear. You get the larger front tire rollover with the smaller rear tire acceleration.

    All three wheels have their application in my mind. One isn't better than the others. Though with that said, the obvious choice if you could only have one would be to go for the one in the middle that strikes the best compromise...650b!

  52. #52
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    4,666
    Rode 26" bike many years, then several years back went all 29". A year ago threw a 275 on the back of my 29" trail bike and really love it.

    Thinking about full tilt 275 front and back, but I really dislike a 26" up front, and I'm afraid the 275 up front would be too similar. Even on 26" bikes with slack HTAs and big rubber I still find the front ends to be very twitchy. So, going to a 275 up front might be too similar to make it worth the try.

    Went I want to ride fast all around and have a lot of pedaling to do, a full 29er is still nice.

  53. #53
    29ers Forever
    Reputation: CannondaleF9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,312
    Didn't switch, will never switch. I would buy a 650b, but I would still keep a 29er around.

  54. #54
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    26,937
    The OP or someone should make this a poll in the General section, I almost never come here, and others probably do the same. Maybe I will just that if I have some time. I've had plenty of 26ers and one 29er HT. I test rode many other 29er FS bikes and found some things I liked and others I did not, but I wanted to wait until they had the 29er FS bikes "figured out" to make a big purchase. Now I have, years later.

    I have no intention of ever riding a 27.5 and am currently riding a fatbike in the interim (kind of effectively a 29er due to the momentum blah blah blah). If I ever want to own a straight DH bike again, I might consider 27.5, but I'm not sure I'd go for it yet over 26. It's kind of irrelevant because it's so hard to utilize a DH bike unless you live real close to a bunch of DH trails.

    I really don't see any negatives for 29ers except for extremely small folks, even though currently some pretty small folks already ride them. Some people judge 29ers based on their crazy 1970s--car-wheelbase FS 29ers. These bikes with 17.5-18.5 chainstays are ending soon, to be replaced with normal wheelbases and chainstay lengths with a combination of 1x11 and clever derailleur mounts. Some hardtails, like my Karate Monkey, had this figured out years ago with 16.9" chainstays. Due to the slightly higher bike-weight to person-weight ratio with these real small people and the geometry issues, 27.5 will be there for them.

    Otherwise, 27.5 is just the "other wheel size" for all the 29er bikes except for DH bikes. 26 will go away except for a few niche markets and there will be world peace.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  55. #55
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
    Reputation: Kirk Pacenti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,629
    Quote Originally Posted by gamalierlozada View Post
    I took the measurements from what they show in the the drawing. Wheel center radius of 27.5" - 10mm (27.5/2 - .393). Maybe I got it wrong bit thats what you get from the print in their page. Just let us know Kirk.
    The 26" version has a -10mm BB drop. The 27.5" version has a -25mm BB drop.

    R350 - 25 = 325 (12.79")

    Cheers,
    KP
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    Been coming off of several 29ers and years of riding 26ers. All wheel sizes have their place and do certain things better than the others. For me my 29er seemed to suck the fun out of handling and the wheels just felt well, big. On my 29er I stopped doing fun stuff like popping up on rocks with my 29er just because it was quite a bit more difficult. I also noticed you have to pick a straight line with a 29er. No last minutes line changes even though the 29er rolls better. Teach each his/own but I don't think I will miss my 29er much.

  57. #57
    JCL
    JCL is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,182
    Hilarious thread of confused generalities.

    If you find a good 29" boring or not very nimble you're not going fast enough. Funny enough a DH bike with a long wheelbase and low BB also feels pretty dull at slow speed but go watch a pro DH racer go through a tight section twice as fast as you ever could on a 650b trailbike.

    A two wheeled vehicle requires a degree of instability to enable it to turn. What you effective do when you steer a bike is manipulate the steering and your mass to destabalise it. The more stable the bike (lower mass position relative to the wheel axles) the more input is needed to destabalise it. However, the higher the stability threshold, the higher the potential speed before instability.

    Curtis Keene Mountain Bike Line in Whistler - YouTube

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    Hilarious thread of confused generalities.

    If you find a good 29" boring or not very nimble you're not going fast enough. Funny enough a DH bike with a long wheelbase and low BB also feels pretty dull at slow speed but go watch a pro DH racer go through a tight section twice as fast as you ever could on a 650b trailbike.

    A two wheeled vehicle requires a degree of instability to enable it to turn. What you effective do when you steer a bike is manipulate the steering and your mass to destabalise it. The more stable the bike (lower mass position relative to the wheel axles) the more input is needed to destabalise it. However, the higher the stability threshold, the higher the potential speed before instability.

    Curtis Keene Mountain Bike Line in Whistler - YouTube
    That depends on what you ride. Remember, lot's of trails require the bike to move slow. Not everyone is blasting down a mountain at 30 mph. Many people like a more agile bike, which the 650b is.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    I have a Tallboy 29er and a Bronson 27.5" and from the 2 bikes I love the ease of obstacle clearing of the Bronson due of it higher bottom bracket. Also the Bronson corners better, climbs better and overall handling is better too. The Tallboy is just easier in the pedaling effort because it's tire roll rate. But we have to take in consideration a couple things to compare bikes. One will be that the bikes to have the same bottom bracket height, same or pretty similar geometry, weight and the testing terrain. Without all of this facts we can't do an apples to apples conparison. Until we can achieve that we will be just speculating and assuming based on bike feel and personal preferences.

  60. #60
    JCL
    JCL is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    That depends on what you ride. Remember, lot's of trails require the bike to move slow. Not everyone is blasting down a mountain at 30 mph. Many people like a more agile bike, which the 650b is.
    No it depends on the ability of the rider to control the bike. If geometry is optimised a bike that has lower weight distribution relative to the wheel axles will ultimately have more performance potential that the right rider can extract. Again, go and watch a pro DH racer on a tight section that you would have to take relatively slow on a 650b trail bike. He will go twice the speed the speed on a DH bike with a 100mm longer wheelbase.

    If you want an agile bike ride a 26" or 650b hardtail with a 100mm fork and 71 degree head angle and 350mm BB height. It will have a low performance potential regardless of the rider but it will be way more agile than a 650b 140mm trail bike.

  61. #61
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    No it depends on the ability of the rider to control the bike. If geometry is optimised a bike that has lower weight distribution relative to the wheel axles will ultimately have more performance potential that the right rider can extract. Again, go and watch a pro DH racer on a tight section that you would have to take relatively slow on a 650b trail bike. He will go twice the speed the speed on a DH bike with a 100mm longer wheelbase.

    If you want an agile bike ride a 26" or 650b hardtail with a 100mm fork and 71 degree head angle and 350mm BB height. It will have a low performance potential regardless of the rider but it will be way more agile than a 650b 140mm trail bike.
    Need more.

    First you say it's the rider not the bike- generally the correct answer.

    Then you describe a HT that has "low performance potential regardless of the rider". Remember way back in the day John Tomac and everybody else rode DH on HT's.( I was alive and riding, then) Not that they would be close to competitive today vs an elite rider on a DH specific bike.
    But they could rip circles around others on that low potential bike due to their skill.

    Optimally, every rider would be better off with the bike that best suits their skill and ability on specific terrain. Not everyone has the experience to know that for themselves; IME few LBS have the personnel with expertise to advise them. A dilemma, which explains things like the guy on the 35 lbs. 7" travel bike on buff tight singletrack; or the 4'10" woman on the 29'er which has 4" toe overlap and which she can't steer around switchbacks.

    Somewhere there is the right sized frame with the best matched fork, both with the right amount of correctly tuned suspension, built around the most appropriate wheel size, for each rider.

    It makes a difference to pros who are competing against other pros on the absolute best equipment. At that level, the equipment does have an effect to some extent.

    And it makes a difference to amateurs out to have a good injury free time. A LOT of room for personal preference.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    No it depends on the ability of the rider to control the bike. If geometry is optimised a bike that has lower weight distribution relative to the wheel axles will ultimately have more performance potential that the right rider can extract. Again, go and watch a pro DH racer on a tight section that you would have to take relatively slow on a 650b trail bike. He will go twice the speed the speed on a DH bike with a 100mm longer wheelbase.

    If you want an agile bike ride a 26" or 650b hardtail with a 100mm fork and 71 degree head angle and 350mm BB height. It will have a low performance potential regardless of the rider but it will be way more agile than a 650b 140mm trail bike.
    Fact of the matter is 650b's are more nimble. For better or for worse. You obviously like 29ers and that is fine. Not everyone is looking bomb down the trail at high rate of speed. For many smaller wheels are funner. Let them have that.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: d365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,810
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    For many smaller wheels are funner.

    that's pretty much sums it up for me, although some of these super short chainstay 29ers coming out are interesting too. Too many bikes, too little demos around.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,916
    Tallboy 29er here. Considering a 650B- maybe a 5" travel. Not sure if I will sell the Tallboy, so I'll probably buy the 650B first, and then decide. I should probably go demo one first since I feel pretty unstable on 26ers and woudl not buy one again, but I miss the easy handling in the slow tech stuff. When is Francois' shootout going to be done?

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    Tallboy 29er here. Considering a 650B- maybe a 5" travel. Not sure if I will sell the Tallboy, so I'll probably buy the 650B first, and then decide. I should probably go demo one first since I feel pretty unstable on 26ers and woudl not buy one again, but I miss the easy handling in the slow tech stuff. When is Francois' shootout going to be done?
    Take a look at the Solo. I just ordered mine and am picking it up today. Perfect amount of bike for me.5 inches of travel, pedals efficiently and handles great. I test rode one and wondered why I ever went 29er.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    I'm trying to sell my Tallboy to get the new Yeti 575 in 27.5, I'm sold with the 27.5" wheels.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1
    I'm a 29er fan. Been on them since mid 2000 and won't go back. I think 650 has it's place, mainly in longer travel bikes. But for me the rolling resistance of a 29er is unbeatable. And now that manufacturers have been able to get weight down to a respectable yet usable area they are in my opinion the bike to own if you have a one bike quiver.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    650b is here to stay and will probably overtake the 26er within the next few years. It's almost cliche to say the size is "just right" but for me that is how it felt.

  69. #69
    JCL
    JCL is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,182
    Yes a 650b can be more nimble at low speed because nobody is going to build a 29" with 10mm BB drop. But to counter that a 650b will never be as stable at high speed as a 29" with optimised geometry.

    I like bikes and understand that geometry is far more indicative of performance than wheelsize. All this 29'ers can't ride around switchbacks or through tight sections is pure BS. Regardless of what the industry marketeers and confused public would like us to believe. What about the guy on the slack XXL 26" with a wheelbase longer than any medium 29". How he gets that thing through tight tech sections is a miracle!

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    Yes a 650b can be more nimble at low speed because nobody is going to build a 29" with 10mm BB drop. However, when optimised, a 650b will never be as stable at high speed.

    I like bikes and understand that geometry is far more indicative of performance than wheelsize. Regardless of what the industry marketeers and confused public would like us to believe.
    Sometimes being nimble makes you faster. 29ers are great for flowy XC trails but there is a reason you don't see 29ers over taking the AM category. And yes, 29ers are more stable at speed, but a 36er is more stable at speed than a 29er but doesn't mean everyone wants a 36er. lol. For a diverse rider like myself. The 650b makes perfect sense.

  71. #71
    JCL
    JCL is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    Sometimes being nimble makes you faster. 29ers are great for flowy XC trails but there is a reason you don't see 29ers over taking the AM category. And yes, 29ers are more stable at speed, but a 36er is more stable at speed than a 29er but doesn't mean everyone wants a 36er. lol. For a diverse rider like myself. The 650b makes perfect sense.
    Who makes good AM 29"? Specialized and possibly BMC. They simply don't have enough market penetration to take over the AM category. The larger wheels make it more difficult to engineer a longer travel frame around, especially as for some reason the public desires short rear centres. That takes extensive R&D and not many companies have that or the will especially when they can take the easy way out and go 650b.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    It takes extensive R and D because the 29er wheels are too big and awkward for AM riding. That is my point. 29ers aren't the best at every riding niche.

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    Tallboy LT, Yeti SB-95, Pivot, etc. The new trend is to give more travel and have a slacker head angle to the 29ers to compete with the new breed of AM 27.5" bikes. The manufacturers know if they don't adapt market will suffer because people are looking for all around fun bikes not for XC trail riding anymore. People wants to go over obstacles, rocks, jumps and climb, all with one bike not with a staple of 3 one for each type of trail (XC, AM, DH)

  74. #74
    JCL
    JCL is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    It takes extensive R and D because the 29er wheels are too big and awkward for AM riding. That is my point. 29ers aren't the best at every riding niche.
    No it just takes extensive R&D...

    Please explain what situation occurred when you were AM riding a 29" and the wheelsize felt big and awkward?

    I was LOL typing that it's such a ridiculous statement.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    Don't know him but in my case they feel cumbersome in a tight climbing switchback singletrail the tight angle turning just sucks. I have times where my pedaling stroke hit the front tire. That's the thing I hate the most about 29ers. Going down is not an issue because you don't have to pedal and with body english and leaning aggressively you can make them turn almost as good as a 26" bike.

  76. #76
    Doesn't go too far enough
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,254
    "All the time" is still the best response IMHO.

    I'm thinking about going back to a 24, in the rear at least. Sick of cumbersome big wheels, and I want the the 'snap' back.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    I think JCL is an secret operative for Niner bikes or something. I have never met anyone on her so adamant to prove their personal view of bikes is the only way.

  78. #78
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamalierlozada View Post
    I'm trying to sell my Tallboy to get the new Yeti 575 in 27.5, I'm sold with the 27.5" wheels.
    I thought of selling my TBc and trading for a light carbon 5" 27.5, but decided to keep it. I have an Alu 650b with 5" of travel but it is 5 lbs heavier than the TB, which combined with less traction makes it pale in comparison to TB climbing technical rocky terrain. 29" also just flies in the rolling singletrack. But despite what JCL says the 650b gets around tight switchbacks better FOR ME. Someday I will be able to afford my ideal bike: light (sub 25lbs) 5" 650b with a 13.75" bb height and 67.5* HTA. I hate pedal strikes, another TallBoy defect.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    That's something I love about the Bronson the bottom bracket height is great and it weights 26 pounds (Not bad for a 6" travel bike and dropper post). Once you get used to it if you use a lower bb bike you will be hitting everywhere. That happens when I switch from the Bronson back to the TB. I'm looking to see what Yeti has to offer now with the SB-75 and the 575 in 27.5".

    Regarding JCL I don't know if he realized this forum is to ask if people switched from a 29" and why. Not to start a war of what bike is better.

  80. #80
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    4,666
    JCL make some solid points.

    Riders first to say 29ers have sluggish handling are often riding 6" travel 26ers with super slack HTAs, and long wheel bases. Go figure.

    A more stable bike is more confidence inspiring and gives better ground control - all which allows a rider to push the bike harder and go faster on any trail.

    Wheel size aside, low BBs are great. I can easily overcome pedal strikes with some well placed pedal strokes. A good rear hub also helps. There is no way around the physics of a high bottom bracket and how it adversely affects cornering.

    I think both the 29 and 275 will hold out for a long time. Both are good if the bike's geometry is dialed.

  81. #81
    JCL
    JCL is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    I think JCL is an secret operative for Niner bikes or something. I have never met anyone on her so adamant to prove their personal view of bikes is the only way.
    Ha!

    I'm just interested in the facts that's all. People who ramble on about 29'ers not being nimble and are only good for rolling terrain etc are just perpetuating myths. It's just as ridiculous as if everyone started saying 650b's are sketchy at high speed. Which actually in relative terms may have more truth to it!

    As I said before geometry is far more indicative of performance than wheelsize and there are other factors at least as important like suspension tune, anti-squat percentage, leverage rate change, weight distribution, sizing, etc, etc.

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    315
    I've ordered my 650b Trek Slash 8, coming from a Trek Mamba. I'm planning on keeping the Mamba at this point, but can't wait til November to give the smaller wheels a go! Nothing wrong with havin' more than bike!

  83. #83
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post


    A more stable bike is more confidence inspiring and gives better ground control - all which allows a rider to push the bike harder and go faster on any trail.
    By "on" any trail, you are excluding above and over, as a consequence of your stable - and big and heavy - bike. Staying glued to the trail has its appeal and challenge, but getting as vertical as you are able does as well.


    Wheel size aside, low BBs are great. I can easily overcome pedal strikes with some well placed pedal strokes.
    If I had a buck for every time I've heard that one, I'd be living in Utah, Idaho or Colorado with a quiver of bikes and skis to cater to my every whim, year round.

    Meanwhile, where I ride if you don't have the momentum to coast over and through and a rocky section, with pedals at 3:00 and 9:00, the terrain will bite you on the ass if you have to pedal out of it. And if you keep having to ratchet and pay slavish attention on exactly where to place your stroke, you will keep slowing down until you get dropped and/or fall over.

    I think both the 29 and 275 will hold out for a long time. Both are good if the bike's geometry is dialed.
    You got that one correct.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,134

    Re: Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Well since I have been riding my 26ers and 29ers back to back lately...well the 29er DOES have more sluggish handling and isn't as nimble while also not being as stiff. It's got a much bigger wheel/gyroscope to throw around. And mind u my 29er is 3-4 lbs lighter than my 26ers.

    How the hell am I supposed to just ignore that because some guy on some message board says so? That's what I don't get.

    And yes I love my 29er and it's good at some things...but the smaller wheel I have found is better at other things. However that is the just the difference between them...I'm *starting* to prefer the smaller wheel though. However it really boils down to what I am riding.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  85. #85
    JCL
    JCL is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    Well since I have been riding my 26ers and 29ers back to back lately...well the 29er DOES have more sluggish handling and isn't as nimble while also not being as stiff. It's got a much bigger wheel/gyroscope to throw around. And mind u my 29er is 3-4 lbs lighter than my 26ers.
    Think about the gyroscopic effect on DH bikes with 1200+ gram tires and 600 gram rims going 40kph. Ever heard a DH racer say it's hard to throw the bike around?

    Gyroscopic effect is negligible. It isn't the wheels.

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,759
    I got my Solo tonight and I dug the handling characteristics. I am not a professional rider or a super good rider, I just know it's fun to throw bike around bit. I guess as long are you guys have fun on your respective bike, that's all that matters.

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    I got my Solo tonight and I dug the handling characteristics. I am not a professional rider or a super good rider, I just know it's fun to throw bike around bit. I guess as long are you guys have fun on your respective bike, that's all that matters.

    That's a sweet ride! Enjoy.

  88. #88
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    4,666
    To answer the original question, I've partly gone away from 29" wheels. As in the original post, I put a 275 out back on my 29er.

    But, NOT for the reasons most folks use to discredit 29ers. Why I went to a 275 out back was for increased wheel stiffness (which I can feel), better drive train compatibility (drive train/gearing is still not 29er friendly), and for more butt clearance when hanging of the back of the bike.

    The issues most anti-29er folks have with the big hoops are not traits necessarily inherent to 29" wheels. JCL is pretty spot on with his points and offers solid rationale yet folks don't want to hear it.

    Think of wheel size like suspension travel. 3", 4", 5". It is only one variable in the bike's make up.

    We may have diverged from the original point of the thread. But, I don't think it's too far off base to point out the err of pigeon-holing a bike into having certain handling characteristics just because of wheel size.

    With that said, my next bike will likely be a slacked out, stable, 275. Something like a Mach 6. My TBLTc, a 29er, while great for trail riding, is a little too sharp/quick-handling/nimble for AM riding. The bike's angles and travel dictate that, not its wheel size.

  89. #89
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    4,666
    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    By "on" any trail, you are excluding above and over, as a consequence of your stable - and big and heavy - bike. Staying glued to the trail has its appeal and challenge, but getting as vertical as you are able does as well.


    If I had a buck for every time I've heard that one, I'd be living in Utah, Idaho or Colorado with a quiver of bikes and skis to cater to my every whim, year round.

    Meanwhile, where I ride if you don't have the momentum to coast over and through and a rocky section, with pedals at 3:00 and 9:00, the terrain will bite you on the ass if you have to pedal out of it. And if you keep having to ratchet and pay slavish attention on exactly where to place your stroke, you will keep slowing down until you get dropped and/or fall over.



    You got that one correct.

    I guess the rocks where I ride are very different from where you ride.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,134

    Re: Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    Think about the gyroscopic effect on DH bikes with 1200+ gram tires and 600 gram rims going 40kph. Ever heard a DH racer say it's hard to throw the bike around?

    Gyroscopic effect is negligible. It isn't the wheels.
    Well I do not ride a DH bike however I have used different wheelsets of different weights and yes it does have an effect. The lighter wheelsets and tires did end up being easier to throw around in turns and were more responsive, it was the first thing I noticed on the trails. My bike "came alive" on my first ever wheel set upgrade (orig wheels were really heavy). Hell I can feel a difference in tire weights as well.

    I mean jumping on both 26ers it was immediate on how much stiffer, nimbler, and responsive they were.

    29ers are bigger which is obviously going to be less responsive while also being more flexy... I feel it all the time when switching between wheel sizes...and that's fine, just different.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
    '12 Scott Spark 29 Team
    '13 Scott Scale 970
    '11 Scott Speedster S20
    '99 Spec' FSR Comp
    '9x Spec' Hardrock Cromo rigid

  91. #91
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    I guess the rocks where I ride are very different from where you ride.
    Or maybe different strokes for different folks.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  92. #92
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCL View Post
    Ha!

    I'm just interested in the facts that's all. People who ramble on about 29'ers not being nimble and are only good for rolling terrain etc are just perpetuating myths. It's just as ridiculous as if everyone started saying 650b's are sketchy at high speed. Which actually in relative terms may have more truth to it!

    As I said before geometry is far more indicative of performance than wheelsize and there are other factors at least as important like suspension tune, anti-squat percentage, leverage rate change, weight distribution, sizing, etc, etc.
    Blah blah blah. Anything you DON'T know?
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    Or not everyone wants to "manage" pedal strikes all the time. That's something while riding that I'd rather not have my brain deal with, because it is annoying. One of my bikes has a low BB like that, it's annoying. My other 26er and 29er don't have that problem which is fantastic as I can more focus on powering through stuff and flowing instead of constantly worrying about where my pedal might strike and trying to prevent it all the time.

  94. #94
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,600
    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Or maybe different strokes for different folks.
    Around here there are a few rocks (but nothing like out west) and lots of roots. Neither are a huge issue for pedal strikes around here. But a slightly higher bb (like on my converted 650b Blur XC Carbon, around 13.2") helps for high-level XC racing, because it allows you to pedal through most corners (and everywhere else, like through rocky or rooty sections).

    The extra stability from a super-low bb would be more than offset by the lost seconds spent coasting vs pedaling to avoid strikes. I have zero problems cornering very hard with this bb height (still not unusually high, just not fashionably low).

    It reminds me of how criterium racing has influenced road bike geo in the US- slightly higher bb so it's possible to pedal through turns without spiking a pedal.

    Maybe a slightly higher bb is preferable for some folks for XC racing vs. AM or trail riding.

    ETA: I do have a set of eccentric shock bushings... Might try them when I get my new X-Fusion Microlite shock and Velvet fork, as the Velvet's longer a-c measurement will raise the bb a bit further. The eccentric bushing will effectively shorten the eye-to-eye shock dimension, slacking the head angle a bit further (which I actually like) and dropping the bb a bit. Fun experiment, anyway.

  95. #95
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    4,666
    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    Or not everyone wants to "manage" pedal strikes all the time. That's something while riding that I'd rather not have my brain deal with, because it is annoying. One of my bikes has a low BB like that, it's annoying. My other 26er and 29er don't have that problem which is fantastic as I can more focus on powering through stuff and flowing instead of constantly worrying about where my pedal might strike and trying to prevent it all the time.
    Agreed.

    I was just countering, or pointing out the flip side of, the posted perpetuated myth that lowere BBs are "bad". Like travel, slack angles, fat tires, and big hoops.... there are pluses and minuses on both sides.

    The Spec Enduro 26 has been lauded for years by the agressive trail riding crowd for its trail handling manners. Specialized runs notoriously low BBs.


    The Frankenstein-like mentality of "soup good, fire bad" goes away after you ride and race enough bikes, on enough terrain, for enough years - folks eventually realize there are pluses and minuses to all setups.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,134

    Re: Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Agreed.

    I was just countering, or pointing out the flip side of, the posted perpetuated myth that lowere BBs are "bad". Like travel, slack angles, fat tires, and big hoops.... there are pluses and minuses on both sides.

    The Spec Enduro 26 has been lauded for years by the agressive trail riding crowd for its trail handling manners. Specialized runs notoriously low BBs.


    The Frankenstein-like mentality of "soup good, fire bad" goes away after you ride and race enough bikes, on enough terrain, for enough years - folks eventually realize there are pluses and minuses to all setups.
    Ironically my 26er with the low BB is a 2011 Spec' Hardrock, the 26er with high BB is 1999 FSR Comp.

    There must have been a change of thought somewhere between those 2 years.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
    '12 Scott Spark 29 Team
    '13 Scott Scale 970
    '11 Scott Speedster S20
    '99 Spec' FSR Comp
    '9x Spec' Hardrock Cromo rigid

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    95
    I think ultimately it's how they "feel" on the trail that should drive an individuals decision. "understanding" geometry means nothing if your bike feels like a garbage scow on the trails you like to rip on.

    A person can let excel spreadsheets, free-body diagrams and shock rate numbers inform the decision if they wish but that'll mean jack if they get the bike on their local trail and think the thing handles like a battleship in a bathtub.

    fwiw, I've been riding mtb for a few decades, and designing machinery for two decades. I have more than a passing interest in bike geometry, but I don't let any of the numbers get in the way of allowing the actual trail manners of a bike to inform my judgment on it because the numbers don't include a very important element. Ride style. ..don't get me wrong. the numbers game if understood is a decent start point but that's all it is.

    I have a few close ride friends on 29r. I watch them ride and it 'works' for them. They for the most part ride differently and I presume have different expectations. When I rode 29 I fought it the whole time and didn't prefer it for my riding. It sucked the fun out of the ride. All the numbers in the world won't alter the simple fact that an individuals perception is going to be their reality.

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,009
    Both sizes are doing good things for riding because----- new development. A lot of effort every season.
    We're getting a big changing range of different handling bikes. And new means there is more room for smaller makers not just stuff from big guys. Space for European and other builders putting out 29 and 27.5 stuff that looks good and pushes things more.
    I'd just like to ride more of it. And have fun because a 'better' one will be coming soon anyway.

  99. #99
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    Or not everyone wants to "manage" pedal strikes all the time. That's something while riding that I'd rather not have my brain deal with, because it is annoying. One of my bikes has a low BB like that, it's annoying. My other 26er and 29er don't have that problem which is fantastic as I can more focus on powering through stuff and flowing instead of constantly worrying about where my pedal might strike and trying to prevent it all the time.
    Of course I totally agree. Different strokes; I don't want to manage mine either
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  100. #100
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169

    Did you switch from a 29er ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Agreed.

    I was just countering, or pointing out the flip side of, the posted perpetuated myth that lowere BBs are "bad". Like travel, slack angles, fat tires, and big hoops.... there are pluses and minuses on both sides.

    The Spec Enduro 26 has been lauded for years by the agressive trail riding crowd for its trail handling manners. Specialized runs notoriously low BBs.


    The Frankenstein-like mentality of "soup good, fire bad" goes away after you ride and race enough bikes, on enough terrain, for enough years - folks eventually realize there are pluses and minuses to all setups.
    Which is why you pick the set up that suits you in your terrain, from geo to suspension to drivetrain to wheel size to tire width, to tubes or tubeless, to bike brand, to pedal type, to bar width, to stem length, etc etc. Variables are confusing until you can learn to feel and understand the differences.

    You want to really get confused, read about alpine ski variables. The more experienced you get in any sport, the more you become familiar with variables in equipment and how they affect performance, which in turn translates to fun and enjoyment.

    I know what I like now. That does NOT prevent me from trying new ideas and equipment as they come along, the trick is to know the difference between improvement and hype. And to adjust accordingly.

    I continue to adjust to 29". Too early to know whether I will ever "own" it.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-21-2013, 04:48 AM
  2. Question about making the switch to a 29er
    By BMSrider in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 05-16-2013, 09:05 AM
  3. should i upgrade or switch to 29er?
    By Tick_Tock_Glock in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  4. wheel switch for 29er (city/mountain)
    By shawnkeeler in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-20-2011, 07:12 PM
  5. Anyone switch from another 29er HT to the Paradox?
    By matmattmatthew in forum Banshee Bikes
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 05-25-2011, 12:39 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •