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  1. #1
    www.lugoftheirish.com
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    Custom 650b frame

    So I have a set of the Sun Charger 650b wheels and a set of Kirk's Neo Motos so I suppose it is time to start doing something with them. The Ventana 650b 4" travel rear assembly should be here in a couple of weeks so in the meantime I started cutting up some tubes and seeing what's what. Still a lot to do but not bad headway for an afternoon.

    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  2. #2
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    Going to spec a White Brothers 650b specific fork for it?

  3. #3
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    In an ideal world, yes. But, without knowing the A-C length for the WB 650b specific, I used a Fox 130mm fork as specs. I have one in the shop and it works with the 650b wheels.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  4. #4
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    Very cool, will be neat to see this built up. I was just checking out your site. I build old cars and eco-friendly 4WDs for a hobby with a lot of metal work... Since I recently got obsessed with MTB about a year ago and have been exploring frame building and have always loved geometry, the only math class I always got A's in I have a feeling someday maybe later in my life when I am retired or something like that (I'm only 29) I'll get into frame building, if I am patient enough to resist getting into it now. This gentleman recently moved to and is planning to set up shop in the neighboring town where my vehicle building shop is. http://www.edwincycles.com/ We have a pretty good collection of welders and metal guys who are all great interesting guys and do killer work, hopefully we can get hgim plugged in an I can hopefully resist the tempation for some custom frames...

  5. #5
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    Get her finished before St. Patrick's day!

    Can't wait to see the finished product.

  6. #6
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    St. Patrick's Day might be a tall order. Largely depends upon when the rear assembly darkens my door.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loretta
    In an ideal world, yes. But, without knowing the A-C length for the WB 650b specific, I used a Fox 130mm fork as specs. I have one in the shop and it works with the 650b wheels.
    What will your HT angle be with the 130mm Fox? And will you run it as 5" in front and 4" in back with the Ventana rear end?

  8. #8
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    The A-C length I used was 490mm and 20% sag of 130mm of travel. That gives me a 70 degree head angle. 4" travel in the rear.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  9. #9
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    Should be nice! what tubing are you utilizing for the front triangle?

  10. #10
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    Pacenti HM 31.8 ST, Zona 31.8 TT , Deda 38mm 9/6/9 DT. External sleeving on the ST along with ample gusseting at the DT/HT junction.

    Not sure what the total frame weight will be but it will be somewhere between 4 and 12 pounds.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  11. #11
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    4.5 pounds for the whole frame or just the front triangle portion? If that's for the whole fame - Amazingly awesome!!

  12. #12
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    Actually that was a joke. Frame weight will probably fall in the 6.5 to 7 pound range. Just a hunch.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  13. #13
    Sail On!
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    Sure would be great if we could see some more work in progress pix.

  14. #14
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    Probably won't do a whole lot more to it until the rear assembly arrives but I will take plenty of photos of the build along the way. I can also take some more pics of what I have so far and post them up.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  15. #15
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    "4-12 lbs, should hopefully be somewhere in this range"

  16. #16
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    Got a call from Theresa over at Ventana to let me know my 650b rear assembly will be here tomorrow. Hoping to make some headway on the frame over the weekend and will report back after that. I'll take plenty of pics along the way.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loretta
    In an ideal world, yes. But, without knowing the A-C length for the WB 650b specific, I used a Fox 130mm fork as specs. I have one in the shop and it works with the 650b wheels.
    The 650B 130mm WB fork is within 10mm A-to-C lenght of a 130 Fox.

  18. #18
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    The downside to the WB 130 fork is that it is only available in thru-axle and my Charger wheels are QR hubs.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  19. #19
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    If you call and order direct they should be able to do QR for you. Takes a few weeks though...

  20. #20
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    Update. I ended up going for the 5" travel option and changing the frame angles. Head tube is 70.5 degrees and seat tube is 73 degrees.

    Lower pivot



    Rocker arm pivot and gusset


    Full frame mock-up

    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  21. #21
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    Lookin good!

  22. #22
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    Nice garage Tim. Gonna be good to see the finished product Thanks for sharing the construction picts.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  23. #23
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    Brazed up the seat tube pivot mount to the gusset. Now all that is left is to braze this onto the seat tube, add the lower shock mount, braze in the top tube, file and clean up the fillets, paint, and build it and ride it.



    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  24. #24
    TNC
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    I'm just curious on your choice of the 70.5 HA for a 5" bike. I have no doubt your preference was well thought out here, but when more manufacturers are generally going slacker on 5" and longer travel bikes, 70.5 seemed a little steep. What wheelbase do you think you'll end up with, and what's the chainstay length with the provided swingarm? The setup looks very well done, and I'm impressed with anyone who can roll their own.

  25. #25
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    Agreed that the head angle is a little steeper than other 26" bikes but this is something of a "beta" bike and I wanted to try a head angle somewhere between my 29er and 26". I want something that will perform in Pisgah but much of the riding around here in Indy doesn't really call for a slacked out 5" travel bike. So I wanted something that could serve a little bit of double duty. This should give a trail of ~79mm but if I don't like the way it rides then I'll tear it apart and build another one.

    Also, wheelbase is 44". Chainstay is 17.45"
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  26. #26
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    Frame is all brazed up and is almost finished. Still need to braze in the lower shock mount and the headtube reinforcements. Then it is time for clean up and paint.



    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  27. #27
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    Finished up the frame and did a bit of mock up to make sure that everything is as it should be. It is. Tomorrow I'll finish up the filing and it is off to the painters.





    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  28. #28
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    It's looking good

    While it's off to paint, how about a list of of the motorcycles in the shop?

  29. #29
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    1973 Honda CL350. Quite caff'd out. Stripped it to the frame and started from scratch. Too much fabricating and welding to ever get my money back out of it. Looks cool but is uncomfortable as hell. Sounds like it is screaming by you at 100 miles per hour but is more bark than bite.

    1971 Norton Commando 750. Spent a winter putting Humpty Dumpty back together. Rather proud of it and is a long-term hold.

    2005 Triumph Thruxton. It's a Thruxton. Not much to mention. I punted a 66 Bonnie a couple of years ago and bought it. It is fun and won't get you into too much trouble. Removed rear fender, painted to match front fender, bar end mirrors, new pipes, etc. Mostly off the shelf stuff that anyone with a Visa card and a mailing address can accomplish. Going up for sale next week.

    2007 Ducati Sport1000 SE- #82 of 100 that exist in the world. Basically, a standard Duc Sport 1000 Monoposto with a different pant job. Different pipes and a fender elimination kit. Other than that, it's bone stock. Easily the most fun to ride.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  30. #30
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    COMPLETE!

    Built it up and took it for a small ride tonight. Shamrock Cycles 650b frame. Ventana 5" rear assembly. Frame weight (including shock) is right at 8lbs and total bike weight is 30.1lbs. Not exactly featherweight but . . .

    Gonna earn its stripes at PMBAR this weekend.

    For the benefit of the fashion police, yes, the blue zip ties are temporary. I ran out of black.







    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  31. #31
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Well done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Loretta
    COMPLETE!

    Built it up and took it for a small ride tonight. Shamrock Cycles 650b frame. Ventana 5" rear assembly. Frame weight (including shock) is right at 8lbs and total bike weight is 30.1lbs. Not exactly featherweight but . . .

    Gonna earn its stripes at PMBAR this weekend.

    For the benefit of the fashion police, yes, the blue zip ties are temporary. I ran out of black.







    Looking forward to the full report next week!
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  32. #32
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    Very Very sweet!

    Looking forward to the ride report from Pisgah.

  33. #33
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    Nice work! Is that dark blue or black paint? It looks dark blue to my eyes and if so - nice choice!!!

    Let us know about those wheels ASAP.

  34. #34
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    It is dark pearl blue. A friend of mine here in town (Mike Corby at Corby Concepts) does a whole lot of helmet and equipment painting for the motor racing teams (Indy, MotoGP, cart racing, etc.) He does phenomenal work. He had to paint bikes and helmets for the Red Bull racing team and ordered gallons and gallons of Red Bull blue, red, white, etc. The tint on the blue was slightly off (apparently Red Bull Europe and Red Bull North America use slightly different colors) so my guy at the paint store has gallons of dark metallic blue with nothing he can do with it. It's good to have these kind of contacts.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  35. #35
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    Awesome - that's my favorite paint color for mtbs!

    Are the celtic knot emblems on the frame stickers?

    I dig the Shamrock on the steat tube/top tube brace!

    Mighty nice!!!!!

  36. #36
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    Wow, that looks good. If you're comfortable posting a ballpark number on a public forum, what would you say you'd sell such a set up for? (custom frame w/Ventana rear and rear shock) Not to putcha on the spot but that there bike looks a lot like what I see when I close my eyes and think about what my 650b-ike will look like.

  37. #37
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    SteveF,
    Not sure this is the place for throwing out numbers. Email me and we can discuss one on one.

    tim -at- lugoftheirish -dot- com
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Awesome - that's my favorite paint color for mtbs!

    Are the celtic knot emblems on the frame stickers?

    I dig the Shamrock on the steat tube/top tube brace!

    Mighty nice!!!!!
    Thanks man. Yes, the celtic knots are decals and are buried under the clearcoat. They are a whisper on the thick side so they are handsanded and then a second application of clear is laid on.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loretta
    SteveF,
    Not sure this is the place for throwing out numbers. Email me and we can discuss one on one.

    tim -at- lugoftheirish -dot- com

    I can certainly understand that--I'm not in a hurry to take the plunge (going to pay my car off first) but I'll be interested in your impressions once you get some miles on it, and I'm going to keep you on my short list!

    Nice work...very!

  40. #40
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    So I got in a 2.5 hour shake down ride on the 650b tonight down in Brown County State Park.

    Short answer, I love it. My thoughts are these, and they are subject to change as I log more time on the bike.

    -It has been about a year since I have ridden a full suspension bike so I had to re-learn a few things.
    -The bike acts much more like a 26" bike than it does a 29er.
    -Spin-up issues are reduced, compared to a 29er.
    -Certain rock features that normally I am forced to muscle a 26" up and through felt smoother and I was able to roll them.
    -A couple of sections that are notorious for snagging front wheels and sending you ass over teakettle did not present an issue.
    -Flickability is more akin to a 26" bike.
    -The higher bottom bracket makes easy work of rock lifts and pedaling through corners.
    -It doesn't feel like I am getting all of the shock travel, which is more of a shock fine tuning issue.
    -Fantastic traction with the Neo Motos but I am running the tires with a bit higher psi (about 38 lbs) because I am using Stan's rim strips so I don't have a tube to help keep the sidewall stiffer.
    -Ultimately the bike with the 650's feels a bit more sure-footed than a 26". The differences are subtle but they are most certainly present. The upsides versus a 26" outweigh the downsides versus a 29er.
    -Will it replace my 29er? No. Will it replace my 26"? You bet your sweet bippy.

    Next stop, Asheville.



    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  41. #41
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    Loretta - your 29er is a hardtail yes?

    Would this be your prefered FS ride vs say a FS 29er?

    And can you comment on the charger rims and hubs??

  42. #42
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    Yes, the Galway is a 29er hardtail. For most XC racing in the area the 29er will still be my bike of choice. But, for all-mountain type riding the 650 takes the cake.

    The Sun Chargers/ Pacenti Neo Motos are quite nice. I am running a Stan's strip in them so I have the tire pressure a bit higher (by about 5psi) to compensate for not having a tube to aid in sidewall stiffness. Don't get me wrong, the tires are beefy as hell, I just have to gradually ease into a tire moving about on the rim. Sort of like easing into a bathtub. You have to do it slowly but it feels nice once your there.

    I get noticiably less wheel flex out of the Sun Chargers than I do on my Industry Nine 29er wheels. I imagine if I went to the thru-axle on the Sun wheels I would notice it even more.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  43. #43
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    Thanks for the scoop. Are these Chargers currently available as wheelsets or are yours an early release for testing and whatnot?

  44. #44
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    You would probably have to give Hayes a call direct to see when they are releasing the Sun Chargers. maybe they already have but if you go to their website there is no mention of them.

    I bought mine as a wheelset. Since Hayes owns Wheelsmith they have them build up their wheels.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  45. #45
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    So...how did the 650b do at PMBAR?

  46. #46
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    Performed flawlessly. Nary a skipped chain throughout the entire race. 2.5 hour at Dupont on Friday and 9 hours on race day. We finished 34th out of 76 teams.

    My initial thoughts were reinforced. The bike behaves much more like a 26" than a 29er. The tires were perfect for the conditions. Tons of rocks, roots, techy type stuff that the bike just rolled. The climbing seemed to be just fine but I never really pushed it on the climbs.
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  47. #47
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    Good stuff. Curious - how much does your bike weigh?

    I rode a 29er last night - rigid and loved the lightweight aspect of it. I'm not sure I could go back to a really heavy FS bike. One of the guys riding with us has a gorgeous Morewood Mbuzi with a Fox Talas up front - I bet it rides sweet, but man was I surprised at how heavy the front end was.

    Perhaps that is on a different spectrum than your 650b FS bike - so I'm curious about the weight. Is is sub 30?

  48. #48
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    It is sub-30 but just barely. By just barely I mean on my digital scale the bike comes in a 29.94lbs. That is in "ready to ride" condition (pedals, bottle cage, etc).
    Shamrock Cycles- Hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana.

  49. #49
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    Not too shabby.

    I really need to try the 650b as a front wheel.

    Anyone in CT have one I could borrow?

  50. #50
    nothing relevant to say
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    Mark, do you need a QR or 20 or 24mm?

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