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  1. #1
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    China Carbon AM Duallies

    OK, given the other China carbon thread is already confusing enough with both a mix of hardtails and dual suspension xc bikes, I kind of thought it might be an idea to start a separate thread for the new AM bikes that are starting to appear, thanks natron5000 for that early find.

    As usual there seem to be lots of sellers already trying to promote a product they don't have their hands on and seem to have even less information about. Hong -Fu's FB page don't really seem to answer any important questions so I tried my luck with their proper site and was surprised how quickly I got the following information. Sorry, I have been sitting on this for a couple of days not wanting to make public emails but hey, there really is interest picking up on that other thread and I figure it will be available publicly soon anyway.

    What I have so far
    FM-336
    Frame is designed for a 150mm fork (A-C on geo chart below)
    Shock is a 200 x 50.8 but I can't get a firm "it is a 150mm rear travel bike"
    Sizes range from 15.5" to 20.5" but "now only 15.5 and 17.5 in producing"
    Frame weight on a 17.5 is 2649 gm but no confirmation on whether or not this includes hanger and rear axle.
    Price, well lets just say it is more than the xc frames (sorry, that one I am keeping quiet) but I will say that I think by the time it is delivered and you fit a quality shock with hardware it will be north of $1400
    petepeterson has got that it will be a BB92, I didn't think to ask.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-fm336-2d.jpg

    Let the "its a copy of x" discussions begin

    Maybe the mods can move the previous comments about this frame made in this thread over here?

  2. #2
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    The geometry drawings States 150mm rear wheel travel

  3. #3
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    Is that the chinese script or did I miss something obvious? Thanks Pete

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    It's the text on the far left with the arrow.

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    Like someone else said looks similar to a pivot mach 5.7....I like it
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

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    Hey guys - I live in China and am currently working with a local bike factory on a carbon hardtail frame and some carbon wheels . . . .

    Anyway if you guys want to put together a list of questions that have not been able to get answered and i can try to help get more information.

    I am going to pick up some parts Saturday afternoon so I will at least see if they have this frame available.

    jeff

  7. #7
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    A Pivot Chinese carbon knockoff... Interesting

    Wonder how they'll get around the dual-link patents in the US?

    440mm/17.3" chainstay... assuming it's a 650b?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    If the patents where not filed in China they can not be enforced on the manufacture of products in China - probable just be limited to getting them to stop the sell in US market (but would be tough to enforce in small volume). Actually if the patents where not filed in China, then one of the local manufacturers can patent them in PRC and then block any other manufatucturer (even the orginal patent devloper!) from being able to manufacture and export from China. . . . Similar to what just happened to Tesla

  9. #9
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    China Carbon AM Duallies

    Where or how can someone buy this?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by trap121 View Post
    Where or how can someone buy this?
    Ditto.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    A Pivot Chinese carbon knockoff... Interesting

    Wonder how they'll get around the dual-link patents in the US?

    440mm/17.3" chainstay... assuming it's a 650b?
    No problem. That's why you already see lots of dual link bikes in the US. DW is very specific about wheel path. A slightly different wheel path and it's okay. VPP is about counter rotating links. If they swing the same direction it's okay.
    Keep the Country country.

  12. #12
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    Trap- google hong fu bikes

    Does anyone know when they plan to make the larger sizes? Also does HF give anytype of warranty on their frames and wheelsets? I got a.price from xmi for the ip 156 the other dual sus 650b frame and was quoted 600$ flat. OP do you really think the 336 frame will be almost double the price? Seems a little steep, I definitely want to pick up a L/XL frame ASAP and slowly build it up.

  13. #13
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    The IP-156 is basically a Scott knock off... Linkage driven SP.

    This, being a dual link, I'm sure is more complex to manufacture. The IP-156 (and other variants... 036, etc) aren't know for the tightest bearing interfaces and bearing area QC. The dual link design is going to demand very strict/tight tolerances... This is intriguing
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    They said this will be available in november. Ill be snapping one up as soon as they are available. I have a XMI IP-106 and its build quality was great so I feel good about this I think. Will wait for more info but pretty sure Im going down this road when its available.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCDiesel View Post
    OP do you really think the 336 frame will be almost double the price? Seems a little steep, I definitely want to pick up a L/XL frame ASAP and slowly build it up.
    No, it's not double but you still have to buy a rear shock which is why I said about $1400 depending on which shock you get. Let it put to you this way, if you put a fox on it it will probably be under $1400, if you put a ccdb on it then it will probably be more than $1400.

    Andyfloyd is right with delivery times, I was told 45 - 60 days after payment which would be around November, not sure on the larger two sizes though, maybe a Christmas present?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCDiesel View Post
    . OP do you really think the 336 frame will be almost double the price? Seems a little steep,
    I saw it quoted at $850 USD, sans shock.
    Last edited by scottay; 08-28-2014 at 05:44 PM.

  17. #17
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    Anyone good at that linkage program and wanna plot the wheel path?
    Keep the Country country.

  18. #18
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    LaMere 650b and 29er

    Looks like Lamere will be using these frames in their builds. They are also doing a 29er version as well. Had an email from them and they are in the process of building their first 650b.
    http://www.abload.de/img/allmountainznsse.jpg
    http://www.abload.de/img/dsc01783ofs16.jpg

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    Good find!

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    Fm-336

    Looks like hong fu put the fm336 on their website today. It looks pretty good. There isn't any information yet, but some more pictures are posted. 2015 full carbon All mountain Frame

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    I think it is really just going to come down to the quality of the pivots/bushings/bearings.

  22. #22
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    I just took a better look at that frame and saw that it has counter-rotating links which clearly violate a Santa Cruz patent. Don't expect Lamere or any other "brand" to sell it here. I don't even think ebay sales are legal but SC would have to go after them.
    Keep the Country country.

  23. #23
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    Wow - feeling a pang of regret about my LTK088 purchase, will be following this thread closely.

    Beware of rear wheel travel figures, i was assured from multiple sellers that the LTK088 was 118mm, only to find its more like 100mm. I'd recommend some wizardry with linkage before rushing in with an order. If it does come up lower then it might always be possible to use a 57mm stroke shock as i did with my LTK088. Offset bushes might be an option for people wanting it slacker too ....

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  25. #25
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    Anyone find the shock stroke on the ICAN frame...7.875 x ???

    Edit: nevermind, found it.
    Last edited by Pau11y; 09-03-2014 at 01:46 PM.
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    For those of you who have travelled down the road of these carbon frames. How do you think the quality would compare to say, the new Intense T275 I looked at recently?

    Are we talking a major drop-off, or similar?

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    Have any of you guys put down a deposit for the first run of these frames? ... very eager to shower whoever buys the first one with questions!

  28. #28
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    wondering if anyone has ordered one of these new AM frames???
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

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    Buyer beware. You are getting what you pay for (in some cases less) My experience with these Chinese knockoffs have been less than impressive. They come poorly finished meaning some of the tolerance for the press fit bearing were off by less than a fraction of a millimeter, but made installation of parts a nightmare. The carbon in some areas were even paper thin. Granted they might have improved since 3 years ago when I first bought mine I still wouldn't pay for anything that doesn't have a reputable company standing behind their product. These Cheapo carbon bike companies that sell these frames come and go faster than you can learn to spell their names.

    Disclaimer: I do not work in the bike industry nore do I have any affiliation with any bike shop or anyone who does business in the bike industry.

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    I have this guy who comes into my body shop he does carbon repairs and such.. he said you can barely tell a difference between big box frames and Chinese frames. Just throw on a different sticker n bam!

  31. #31
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    My worry, as always, is top-tube length for a given standover and bearing quality.

    This one looks the top-tube lengths are a bit longer than previous full suspension models, and bearings can be replaced.
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  32. #32
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    Now that is interesting. It's a Mach 6, with a longer top tube and a counter rotating (VPP style) upper link
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    Buyer beware. You are getting what you pay for (in some cases less) My experience with these Chinese knockoffs have been less than impressive. They come poorly finished meaning some of the tolerance for the press fit bearing were off by less than a fraction of a millimeter, but made installation of parts a nightmare. The carbon in some areas were even paper thin. Granted they might have improved since 3 years ago when I first bought mine I still wouldn't pay for anything that doesn't have a reputable company standing behind their product. These Cheapo carbon bike companies that sell these frames come and go faster than you can learn to spell their names.

    Disclaimer: I do not work in the bike industry nore do I have any affiliation with any bike shop or anyone who does business in the bike industry.

    I already have one carbon 29er from China and it looks as good and performs as well as anything Ive seen....
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Now that is interesting. It's a Mach 6, with a longer top tube and a counter rotating (VPP style) upper link
    Yea I was wanting someone to buy one and tell me how great it is, so i can buy one. lol. It does look like Pivot and SC got in bed and made a kid together.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Now that is interesting. It's a Mach 6, with a longer top tube and a counter rotating (VPP style) upper link
    I think I'm picking up one of these 27.5 to replace my Blur LTc. and if it rides well enough, maybe the 29er if the travel on that frame is also 150mm
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  36. #36
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    I tried to 'inquire' about on on Hongfu-bikes.com, but it wants to know order quantity.

    The geo on the 19" looks really good. I never liked how 'short' the top tube of the Mach 6 is.

    Does anyone thing that seat tube/upper VPP link junction looks a little weak? That 'truss' from the top tube looks pencil thin.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  37. #37
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    Has anyone verified that they'll ship to the US?

    I don't see how this isn't clear patent infringement for VPP?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    These puppies look interesting. Plus they aren't shipping from China, and have a bit better geometry for what I'd want.

    Reveal7 - Closeout — 29er | 27.5 | FSR Full-Suspension

    Too bad I just picked up my Chinese carbon frame (the 120 rear 27.5) before I saw this.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Has anyone verified that they'll ship to the US?

    I don't see how this isn't clear patent infringement for VPP?
    I bet they ship for a little while till SC puts a stop to it. Get'em while you can.
    Keep the Country country.

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    I'm a little less excited about this, now that the new Yeti SB6C is out...some of the new linkages look pretty cool.

  41. #41
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    Except the SB6C will cost thousands mores than one these direct frames.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Except the SB6C will cost thousands mores than one these direct frames.
    I just checked pricing. Looks like one of the cutting edge Yeti frames is $3500!!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-t-g View Post
    These puppies look interesting. Plus they aren't shipping from China, and have a bit better geometry for what I'd want.

    Reveal7 - Closeout — 29er | 27.5 | FSR Full-Suspension
    If you're looking for a basic, linkage driven single pivot... Those are a good enough deal
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    I'm in the market for one of these next year I think...

    But, the worrying bit at the moment, is that there doesn't appear to be any built photo's around. They MUST have built one up, surely?

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    Re: China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by Conan257 View Post
    I'm in the market for one of these next year I think...

    But, the worrying bit at the moment, is that there doesn't appear to be any built photo's around. They MUST have built one up, surely?
    Melody Yu form iCan Bikes told me they're still testing and won't be ready till Dec or Jan.
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  46. #46
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    Here's the problem with a dual link generic Chinese bike: with a single pivot you can look at it and k ow what the wheel path is and how it's gonna feel. If there's a linkage driving the shock you're still rolling the dice that they got the shock rate curve right but at least half the equation is covered. With a dual link small changes can have huge impacts on wheel path and shock rate and it's really hard to tell by looking at a frame how it will work and feel. The whole point of dual links is to create wheel paths and shock rates that can't be done on a single pivot and result in a better ride. You're relying on this company to have actually done a good design rather than just slap some links on cuz that's what's selling well right now. Do you think they've actually put the kind of thought that DW, SC, or Giant do into their suspension layout?

    For me it wouldn't be worth the risk to buy a no name frame in this catagory. I love my Chinese rigid because there's not much asked of it. It's light, stiff, and has reasonable geometry (could be better handling but come on, no one's really shredding on a rigid bike). Even in the short travel XC FS category little variations in geometry and shock rate (wheel path looks good for that single pivot, linkage driven frame we've seen) can go mostly unnoticed because handling and feel aren't the top priorities for those bikes. In the AM/Enduro world it's all about how the bike feels. This is a toy that's meant to encourage great cornering, jumping, and confidence at speed on rough terrain. Plenty of otherwise good bikes in this category have been shunned due to sh!tty shock rates that make tuning a hassle. I'd at least like to see the frame properly analysed on Linkage before dropping the money on it.
    Keep the Country country.

  47. #47
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    This bike is available on Linkage Design's publicly available design database, if you're interested. My demo versions are both done for, otherwise I'd post the results.
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    Re: China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    This bike is available on Linkage Design's publicly available design database, if you're interested. My demo versions are both done for, otherwise I'd post the results.
    It's for the 29er version of the design, but it might give ppl some idea...
    http://translate.googleusercontent.c...5o-HdzNvaFNMQw
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    I'll be honest... I can't tell a good design from a bad by looking at a linkage curve
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    It's for the 29er version of the design, but it might give ppl some idea...
    Igor - album HM356 29 on Yandex
    Anyone else finds these charts odd? I.e. compare the "shock compression / wheel travel" curve and the "leverage ratio" curve.

    I am with Lelandjt on the "random design" of these frames. These bogus curves just make his case stronger.

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    I've sent an email to the HongFu crew to get some more info. My bike got stolen last month.....so i'm looking to do a build. being 6'6" makes it a lil tougher, but I'd like to try a FS this time.

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    Yea I'd be very hesitant to suggest one of these chinese bikes for someone over 6'3", simply because even the XL isn't very long by industry standards.
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    I think that it is a very promising proposition, only that I don't fancy the rather steep ha @ 68. Does anyone have an idea of how accurate these numbers generally are? I suppose that it would perhaps end up at a 66,5-67 with a 160 fork or at least a longer a-c. BB height can be adjusted with offset bushings but that might become a seat stay yoke/tire clearance issue. Anyone with knowledge to share here?

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    Answering my own question here. Did some tinkering in Linkage. It seems to be minor differences between the Hongfu/dengfu/Lamere/Ican blueprints and images, mainly around the rear triangle. I also believe that the previous linkage model by Dunn is a bit off in the measurements so curves might not be trusted. It also seems like the recommended rear shock is a 200/50mm affair.
    Well, adjusting the rear with 2*3mm offset bushings would give you a 67,1 HA and a BB at ca -15mm. Additionally adding a 160mm fork (549mm a-c instead of 539mm) would result in a 66,6 HA and a -12mm BB. ETT shrinks ca 10mm and Reach ca 14mm by these changes.
    I think this would become a really good cheapo alternative to a Bronson or a Pivot Mach 6. Close to hitting that buy button.

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    Has anybody recieved one yet ?
    i just placed an ordre at Hung-fu for one in size 20.5, but don't really know when i will recieve it.

    Btw, looks like there's yet another version of this frame
    2015 all mountain carbon bike frame_MOUNTAIN_Full Carbon bike

  56. #56
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    Im still waiting on a ride report before I pull the trigger. It looks like itll ride like a Pivot Mach 6 with a steeper head angle. I dont want to be a guinea pig on this one, someone build one up!
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    Re: China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by C-kaae View Post
    Has anybody recieved one yet ?
    i just placed an ordre at Hung-fu for one in size 20.5, but don't really know when i will recieve it.

    Btw, looks like there's yet another version of this frame
    2015 all mountain carbon bike frame_MOUNTAIN_Full Carbon bike
    Do you know what the Feat frame calls for on shock stroke? Seem there is about a 10 mm variance in travel between all offerings.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    Answering my own question here. Did some tinkering in Linkage. It seems to be minor differences between the Hongfu/dengfu/Lamere/Ican blueprints and images, mainly around the rear triangle. I also believe that the previous linkage model by Dunn is a bit off in the measurements so curves might not be trusted. It also seems like the recommended rear shock is a 200/50mm affair.
    Well, adjusting the rear with 2*3mm offset bushings would give you a 67,1 HA and a BB at ca -15mm. Additionally adding a 160mm fork (549mm a-c instead of 539mm) would result in a 66,6 HA and a -12mm BB. ETT shrinks ca 10mm and Reach ca 14mm by these changes.
    I think this would become a really good cheapo alternative to a Bronson or a Pivot Mach 6. Close to hitting that buy button.
    It's already got a really stack seat tube angle that'll be made even worse with offset bushings and a longer fork. Also you won't know if there's room at bottom out for offset bushings till you built it up and let the air out of the shock. I'm all for finding inexpensive alternatives but I just don't think this frame is gonna make most people in the market for a 2015 AM bike happy. The current geometry trends are so new it'll take another year or so for the copycats to get it right.
    Keep the Country country.

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    Anyone see shock sizes anywhere? EDIT: 200 I2I, 50mm stroke.

    I'd probably size up on any Chinese frame. On a modern name brand bike I'd probably ride a large (610mm horizontal TT), but the one of the Chinese bikes I'd probably spring for the XL.
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  60. #60
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    @Lelandjt
    I don't see how a 73 SA is too slack? A Bronson is at 73 with 67 HA, which is exactly the same as this would result in. And the Pivot mach 5.7 is actually at 71.5SA at 67.2HA.
    I'm not saying that this is a bullet proof buy that will guaranteed work as well as a (much) more expensive frame. I'm just saying that I find it plausible to adjust the angles to my liking through my theoretical testing.
    About rear wheel clearance i would say that from the Ican Bikes geometry charts and my mocked up Linkage model It looks like there will be enough clearance. Since the offset bushes will move the rear wheel less than 6mm closer to the seat tube and it looks like there is at leas 20mm to go, I'm willing to take the risk.
    I'm not giving any guarantees here and I'm definitely not a professional bike designer or engineer. I'm just sharing my leyman findings.

  61. #61
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    I'd only run one offset bushing on this (or any high rotation, dual link frame). I'd put it on the side where the shock attaches to the front triangle.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  62. #62
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    Look at the seat tube. It's not 73. 73 is the angle of a line drawn from the BB to a random point that intersects the seatpost but when you raise and lower the seat it's moving way forward and back. I had a similar Scott Genius LT. Now I own an actually steep Nomad. Look into reviews of the Mach 6 vs Nomad and you'll hear how much better people like a steep seat tube. This bike will be okay but just okay. In 2015 that doesn't cut it. My advise is to wait till you can test ride this thing or wait for a better looking example which is sure to pop up over the next year. Or plunk down the money for a Bronson/Nomad/HD3/ect (maybe Mach 6 but everyone says short top tube and slack ST).
    Keep the Country country.

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    Ok, again, not saying it will be the perfect bike or anything but the way to measure the Seat Angle from the bottom bracket to the (random) supposed height of the saddle is quite the norm right?
    Just measured the Bronson by the angle of the actual seat tube and it came out at about 70,5.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-bronsonstangle.jpg

  64. #64
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    i have been asking around for their prices on this frame and delivery time.

    Dengfu 660 USD
    Hungfu 850 USD
    Ican - 830 USD

    Hungfu, told me that they own the factory that makes the frames, and the other compagnies simply buy from them.
    i dont really see how this can be true, with the different geometry ?

    besides that, some of them seem to be willing to take the ordre now, while Ican tells me that they have to finish up the frames. And the first ordres will be out in January.

  65. #65
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    Once again I find myself trying to buy a frame that doesn't yet exist.

    What's with the price discrepancies? I've never dealt with any of these three companies so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    Time to start acquiring parts for the build ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?
    Wouldn't an inner rim width be a better metric to gauge how a tire profile will be presented?
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Wouldn't an inner rim width be a better metric to gauge how a tire profile will be presented?
    yes
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Wouldn't an inner rim width be a better metric to gauge how a tire profile will be presented?
    Yeah, I wish inner widths were the advertised spec because it is what really matters. But the outer width is what is shown everywhere so I gave in and just use the outer measurement in discussions. Subtract 5mm from that to get inner width.

    It doesn't seem that anyone has a frame yet and no new pictures have surfaced so I'm hesitant to order a 40mm rim and might just go with 35mm.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    It doesn't seem that anyone has a frame yet and no new pictures have surfaced so I'm hesitant to order a 40mm rim and might just go with 35mm.
    If I recall, Derby has 3mm walls (6mm for both) whereas the LB, Nextie, etc have 2.5mm walls (5mm for both).
    This is where I'm conflicted...is an extra 1/2 mm worth ~$140 in price between Nextie and Derby.
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    Point being, would this frame fit a tire put on one of those rims?
    Or would it be limited to a smaller tire that would then up being the wrong profile?

    I might have to end up being the guinea pig unless someone has actually received one of these frames.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    If I recall, Derby has 3mm walls (6mm for both) whereas the LB, Nextie, etc have 2.5mm walls (5mm for both).
    This is where I'm conflicted...is an extra 1/2 mm worth ~$140 in price between Nextie and Derby.
    LB just released a 38mm outer, 31.6 inner rim in 650b and 29er. 3.2mm sidewalls should be tougher. The bead shelf looks really good as well.

    New mtb project for 38mm wide 650B and 29er rims Light-Bicycle
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    LB just released a 38mm outer, 31.6 inner rim in 650b and 29er. 3.2mm sidewalls should be tougher. The bead shelf looks really good as well.

    New mtb project for 38mm wide 650B and 29er rims Light-Bicycle
    Hey thank for the heads up Hokie! I didn't realize they had this new model. Looks uncannily like a Derby, no? The 3.2 sounds fantastic!
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Once again I find myself trying to buy a frame that doesn't yet exist.

    What's with the price discrepancies? I've never dealt with any of these three companies so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    Time to start acquiring parts for the build ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?
    I once bought a frame from Ican, took 5 weeks i think, beautiful frame and finnish. Also quite like their decals too

    This time i ordered from Hongfu, and hopefully they will have the shortest delivery time, i also bought a pair of these wheels - 35mm outer, 30 inner.
    now i just hope that the Mountain king 2.4 will fit in the rear.
    29er 650B 27.5er Bead hookless 35mm Carbon Wheels Chlicher Beast decal-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Once again I find myself trying to buy a frame that doesn't yet exist.

    What's with the price discrepancies? I've never dealt with any of these three companies so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    Time to start acquiring parts for the build ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?
    I once bought a frame from Ican, took 5 weeks i think, beautiful frame and finnish. Also quite like their decals too

    Ican Carbon hardtail frame from China

    This time i ordered from Hongfu, and hopefully they will have the shortest delivery time, i also bought a pair of these wheels - 35mm outer, 30 inner.
    so now i hope that the Mountain king 2.4 will fit in the rear
    29er 650B 27.5er Bead hookless 35mm Carbon Wheels Chlicher Beast decal-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

  75. #75
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    I see you ordered the 20.5". How tall are you?

    Also, did you have to fill out the "inquire" form and then receive further instructions on how to order? The website isn't a typical web store, that's for sure.

  76. #76
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    i'm 185cm

    you just have too fill out the inquire form, and then they will write you back on mail, where they will aske for your ordre. For payment i choose paypal, eigher that or bank transfer. Just remember there are charges on Paypal!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    Look at the seat tube. It's not 73. 73 is the angle of a line drawn from the BB to a random point that intersects the seatpost but when you raise and lower the seat it's moving way forward and back. I had a similar Scott Genius LT. Now I own an actually steep Nomad. Look into reviews of the Mach 6 vs Nomad and you'll hear how much better people like a steep seat tube. This bike will be okay but just okay. In 2015 that doesn't cut it. My advise is to wait till you can test ride this thing or wait for a better looking example which is sure to pop up over the next year. Or plunk down the money for a Bronson/Nomad/HD3/ect (maybe Mach 6 but everyone says short top tube and slack ST).
    All Pivots are slack, the M6 actually has a steeper ST angle than their 429 XC bike, and nobody complains about that not being able to climb.

    The "seat tube angle issue" really depends on how the rear suspension works. A DW-link bike doesn't squat while climbing like most designs, that's how they "get away with it." The question is what this frame does while climbing, if it squats, that's bad, if it extends, it's fine.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Hey thank for the heads up Hokie! I didn't realize they had this new model. Looks uncannily like a Derby, no? The 3.2 sounds fantastic!
    Like a slightly narrower Derby, yes.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  79. #79
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    After studying the geometry charts and comparing it to other all mountain 650b bikes, I've decided to order a 19". I am 6 feet tall.

    Interestingly, the effective top tube of the 19" is actually a bit longer than the large size of the canfield balance, Santa cruz Bronson, and specialized Enduro.

    Cherry indicated that only the 17.5 frame is in stock. What this probably means is that they have finished the medium (17.5) mold but not the large (19) mold. Hopefully they are actively working on making that large mold.

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    @dfiler
    who did you end up buying from ?

  81. #81
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    Planning on ordering from hong fu if the timeframe is known and reasonable. With the difference in time, it isn't unexpected if each email exchange takes a day.

  82. #82
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    No luck on ordering. Twice I explained that I wanted to buy a 19" FM-336. Both times the reply was that only the 17.5" was in stock. Perhaps the confusion is that I also asked when it would be available. No answer to that.

  83. #83
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    I'm trying to order a 19" also. Let's see what they say to MY inquiry.

    Do we know what size shock to use on these yet?

  84. #84
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    Got an answer after asking a few times. Two months.

    In my experience that means three or four months.

    It's worth the wait though. I'll start acquiring all the other components and hopefully the frame is available before the enduro season starts up. Otherwise I'll have to buy something else, something probably much more expensive.
    Last edited by dfiler; 12-22-2014 at 11:24 AM.

  85. #85
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    I got a response last night....



    "thank you for your kind message in our website.
    this is nancy from hongfu bikes.

    the price:
    FM336:$850/set(19" BB92 UD matte)
    headset:$15
    ship cost:$95
    4% for paypal charge:$38.4
    the total price:$998.4
    my paypal account: sales04@hongfu-bikes.cn

    I look forward to your order.
    thanks!


    Best regards
    Nancy

    HongFu sports Equipment Co.,Ltd"


    Might wait to see some folks builds before I pull the trigger on this one

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Got an answer after asking a few times. Two months.

    In my experience that means three or four months.

    It's worth the wait though. I'll start acquiring all the other components and hopefully the frame is available before the enduro season starts up. Otherwise I'll have to buy something else, something probably much more expensive.
    HA, I was told 2 months when I started this thread and that was how many months ago?

  87. #87
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    Well ****. Looks like I should hold off buying components for the build. If the FM336 won't be available, I'll probably end up buying a complete build from a major brand.

    There seems like two possibilities:
    * The manufacturer built just the medium size mold in order to market it to larger brands for distribution. This is what happened with the fatbike frame I bought. It eventually became both the Framed Alaskan and the KHS 4 Season 5000. After they signed contracts with those companies, it was no longer available directly from the factory. It could be that they don't want to invest in all the mold sizes unless a contract is signed guaranteeing a bulk purchase.
    * Or perhaps it really is two months out and they've only been delayed in getting the large size mold built.

    It surprises me that none of the Chinese factory direct sellers have jumped on the opportunity provided by the enduro craze. As of yet there are no cheap carbon mid-travel bikes on the market. There are some shorter travel single pivot options. But nothing like virtual-pivot design of the FM336 shown in this thread. With proper marketing, a company could easily do a good amount of business and build a recognizable brand name. Light-bicycle and now Nextie and a few other companies are examples of this. At least among riders I know, the perception of those companies went from small and questionable cheap manufacturers to legitimate companies. Someone step up!

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post





    My worry, as always, is top-tube length for a given standover and bearing quality.

    This one looks the top-tube lengths are a bit longer than previous full suspension models, and bearings can be replaced.
    Who makes the 29er HM356 frame? I'm assuming Hong Fu, but I can't find it anywhere on their webpage. Where did you find the geo picture for that frame?

  89. #89
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    On this page on the bottom left: Mountain Frame,Products
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  90. #90
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    has anyone seen the HM356 29er anywhere else?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    Ok, again, not saying it will be the perfect bike or anything but the way to measure the Seat Angle from the bottom bracket to the (random) supposed height of the saddle is quite the norm right?
    Just measured the Bronson by the angle of the actual seat tube and it came out at about 70,5.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi LasseB, what tool did you use to do this? Thanks.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Hi LasseB, what tool did you use to do this? Thanks.
    I just used Photoshop using the ruler tool. But I suppose you could do the same thing in Gimp or some free photo editing software.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    I just used Photoshop using the ruler tool. But I suppose you could do the same thing in Gimp or some free photo editing software.
    Thanks

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    linkage

    i just recieved a picture of the linkage, i was asking which size bushing i should go for.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-link.jpg

    if im reading correct the pin size is 8.1, and bushing width 22.3 - 22.4
    the closest i can find is 8 mm, and 22.2 or 22.88

    what am i reading wrong ?
    anybody

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    China Carbon AM Duallies-link2.jpg

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    I gave up waiting for a size large and bought a used carbon bronson. Someone else will need to be the guinea pig.

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    Pretty sure you need 8x22.2. The 0.1 there is to allow assembly. Though I would expect tiny bit tighter tolerance on such part.

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    Yeah, the 8.1x22.2 will be the one. When ordering custom bushings previously I've actually been recommended to go with 0.2mm lateral play for smooth assembly.
    Anyone have measurements for the other bushing?
    BTW just pulled the trigger on a large. 45-60 workdays for delivery and 30% deposit. Fingers crossed.

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    any thoughts on the cut out at the chain stay and downtube?
    it looks as if they are planning to make some customized protection for it.

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    Gday all.

    Well I've been out of the game for a while but am slowly wrapping my head around all the current tech again.

    I'm ordering one of these frames as soon as I can get my build list complete.

    Struggling on the fork and rear shock at the moment.

    First off (and I'm feeling like a n00b here), what size steerer does the fork need to have for this frame?

    Is it 1 1/8" or 1 1/2"?
    Or am I totally misunderstanding that spec from the schematic?

    Next up, what travel length is everyone thinking?

    I've looked at the Mach 5.7 and in the 27.5" frame size that generally gets matched to a 140mm fork.

    The Mach 6 in 27.5 seems to get matched with a 150mm or 160mm fork depending on which build kit you go with.

    From what I've read, a shorter fork will be better for climbing so I'm leaning towards a 150mm 2014 (read that the 2013's were crap) Fox 34 150mm Float.

    Am I on the right track or am I just an out of touch fool?

    Thx.

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