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  1. #301
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    Looking good! Suspension bolts are something I always check on any bike before riding. Back them out and re-torque with either loctite or antisieze, depending on the material of the botl and the area the thread is interfacing with

    RE your shock, what E2E and Stroke did you end up going with?

    Cheers!

  2. #302
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    Thanks Isildur,
    You are of course totally correct, bolts should be checked. As for the shock I settled for a 200x50mm since I rarely will take it on any big stuff. 171mm seems a little too much for what I'm going to use it for. Also, I was worried about the clearance for the lower link, but if Finalgear have tried a 57mm and found no problem when bottoming out, it obviously works.

  3. #303
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    Cheers for the quick reply mate!! i think this frame is now on my list for if my current bike fails (Mach 5.7C, so little chance of that actually happening)

  4. #304
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    Awesome day today.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails China Carbon AM Duallies-img_75941.jpg  


  5. #305
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Isildur View Post
    Cheers for the quick reply mate!! i think this frame is now on my list for if my current bike fails (Mach 5.7C, so little chance of that actually happening)
    ..ya never know. my buddy's pivot ended up cracking on the seat stay portion and pivot & the shop dickered around for months before finally getting him a replacement for $300 instead of the $700+ they wanted.

    granted we ride crazy, rocky trails in the mtns and it probably was from a crash or laying over on a rock. i'm super surprised by how skinny, thin the tubing is on these bikes. i personally wouldn't trust carbon in the type of riding we do. otherwise, i'd go w/ 2 of these frames for cheap crash replacement compared to Pivot or others.


    ..edit: the Spectrum looks awesome w/ the color scheme and i'm enjoying the thread / builds! keep it up!
    ..sleep is good...

  6. #306
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    Now after a couple of dial rides I can say that I'm really happy with how the frame performs. Has some trouble getting the rear mech and expander ring to work flawlessly, it kept giving me trouble unless I unweighted the suspension but it turned out to be a combination of chainline and longer b-screw.
    The rear suspension feel is still great and there is a clear sag point where you really feel the progressive curve and virtual platform kick in when you take a seat.
    A clear proof of the ability to climb is that I have a couple of short but really intense climbs along my standard route and I was surprised to find that I cleared those one LOWER gear than on my similarly geared 26" that have lighter wheels and less rear travel. This has proved consistent in the last 3 rides though.
    Last edited by LasseB; 07-20-2015 at 11:26 PM. Reason: Autocorrect.....

  7. #307
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    Thanks for the update and info. As I am still deciding (demoed 27.5ers and trying to demo some 29er's which is proving fruitless-can't seem to find bikes to demo locally) regardless, here is a china find that may be interesting. I saw references to the FM 356 29 version of the FM336 but found little info from any suppliers....until today. So for your viewing pleasure refer to this link:
    15.5? 17.5? 19? 21? 2700g Full Suspension Mountain Bike Frames HT-FM356 for sale ? Carbon Mountain Bike Frame manufacturer from china (102983750).

    I have requested info on ship dates and the values. The do except Paypal with is good so far...
    Last edited by Spieg Spiegs; 07-24-2015 at 12:43 PM.

  8. #308
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    Oops.
    Suspected crack around the main pivot on front.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150731_194159.jpg

  9. #309
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    Is there noticeably more flex/give or grinding, etc? It could be a filler to smooth around the pivot, but that would still suck. Email the manufacturer and see what they want you to do. I'd keep riding it if isn't flexing more.

  10. #310
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    I took it apart and took a look just because I felt it flexing more the last couple of rides. theres a clear popping sound when pushing the linkage laterally. Was hoping it was the bearings but probably not. I'll probably keep riding it until it breaks though. Have already reached out to Hong Fu and I really hope they will honor their promised 2 year warranty.
    It just sucks since I've spent so much time waiting for it being delivered and now I have to find some new solution or be stranded without a complete bike until the warranty claim is being processed.
    Will keep you updated.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    Oops.
    Suspected crack around the main pivot on front.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's impossible! This bike is strong enough to go off an 18 foot drop, remember?
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    I took it apart and took a look just because I felt it flexing more the last couple of rides. theres a clear popping sound when pushing the linkage laterally. Was hoping it was the bearings but probably not. I'll probably keep riding it until it breaks though. Have already reached out to Hong Fu and I really hope they will honor their promised 2 year warranty.
    It just sucks since I've spent so much time waiting for it being delivered and now I have to find some new solution or be stranded without a complete bike until the warranty claim is being processed.
    Will keep you updated.
    In all seriousness though, I really hope that they honor the warranty for you. It really sucks when your bike breaks, especially after waiting for so long for it.
    It will also be good to see how they handle customer service. At any rate, good luck. I'm rooting for ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  13. #313
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    Now youre trying to be an ass.

  14. #314
    A waste of time it is is
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    actually I thought it was a little bit funny but I'm glad you have chimmed in, I wanted to ask how yours was holding up. So, any issues to date?

    Lasseb, thanks for your openness about this, I hope things work out for you quickly.

  15. #315
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    Still doing well, taking it to my local mountain in an hour, now about his frame it could have been just a bad batch that he got.

  16. #316
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    thanks for the reply.

    I might just have been a Friday 4pm shift job.

  17. #317
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    I've heard good - ish things about HF and DF warranties. Unfortunately they'll probably want you to send it in. The good news is they'll honor the warranty.

  18. #318
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    Yeah, this could be a bad batch or just pure bad luck. I have definitely felt the rear being a bit flexy when stressing it on the downhills and going off camber. I'm not 100% sure that this is a full crack and that it is whats creating this sensation, but even if it a crack in the filler it is a solid indication that something is wrong. One thing I've noticed is the way the rear flexes towards the drive side when putting pressure on the cranks. It is definitely not what I envisioned with this kind of linkage, and somehow I hope that this is because of a faulty lower link and that it can be remedied with a new front.
    I suspected the crack also because of that when pushing the wheel laterally it creates a popping sound that I thought was the bearings but probably isn't. Now, today after reassembling the bike and riding it it creaks like hell when putting any kind of pressure on the pedals, even when going on a slight uphill. I will try to rule out the other possibilities for this creak, BB, pedals, etc tomorrow. what surprises me is that this sound does not appear at all from only the suspension working, like coasting on rough stuff, it is still silent and apart from the occasional flexy sensation feels ok.
    Actually I've already been conversing with Nancy at HF (even being a Saturday) and she has told me that she will forward my photos to an engineer and come back with some kind of answer on Monday. I just hate that I will have to wait for a new frame for weeks all over again.
    I have to stress that I have not ridden this frame on any big stuff but I've put it to test on natural trail, dirt and grit conditions. It's been taken on about 12 hour long rides and have not been jumped or dropped higher than a foot.
    Sorry Finalgear, not trying to be an ass here, just being honest and open with my experience. I think that the frame is great in all other respects but this error, hopefully a bad fluke, is a dealbreaker.
    Let's see how this develops in the coming days.

  19. #319
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    Update on the creaking sound is that it seems to be coming from the pivots bolts on the upper link. disassembled the lower link and pushed the rear laterally and the sound was still very clear. Will clean everything, lube and retighten to se if the remedies the sound issue.
    I think that the bearings used on all pivot points are a bit low quality, beginning to feel some play but nothing major. Also seeing some signs of rust. I have been riding it is very gritty and wet conditions though.
    The "crack" is still unclear on how deep it is. Does not seem to have gotten worse from yesterdays ride. Fingers crossed it is just paint. Will try to ask HF if i can pry some loose paint off to investigate if theres a crack in the material. Just to make sure if I really have to send it back or if I can live with it.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    The "crack" is still unclear on how deep it is. Does not seem to have gotten worse from yesterdays ride. Fingers crossed it is just paint. Will try to ask HF if i can pry some loose paint off to investigate if theres a crack in the material. Just to make sure if I really have to send it back or if I can live with it.
    I've seen this on Yeti Carbon bikes at their pivot points. Yeti states that it is just stress on the paint and does not reflect an actual crack.

  21. #321
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    Finally just got mine. 2.67kg in 17.5 size. Looks great, solid build. Will keep updating. By the way LasseB that doesn't look like a crack to me.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-fm336b.jpg
    Last edited by Pauloplus; 08-03-2015 at 02:21 PM.

  22. #322
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    Congrats Pauloplus! Yeah, I'm waiting on the HF feedback on a crack or not. Have remedied the creaking though. A combo of play at the upper rear pivot points and unfastened chainring bolts. For the pivots I've put some 0,6mm plastic shims in between the rear frame and the link to see if it feels a bit stiffer. I could see movement between the bolts and the frame when pushing laterally but that is gone now. Will take a longer trip tomorrow and hope that everything holds up.

  23. #323
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    It seems like for all of the headache and QC issues wouldnt it be better to just pony up for a name brand proven frame?

  24. #324
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    Averuks, I think the answer is "maybe". Cracks do happen on the big brand stuff (likely, much less frequently). But, for the price, the Chinese frame is pretty great assuming the warranty is honored (as it seems to be). The major down side I see is that you definitely don't get the big brand support. If you have a warranty issue (sorry LasseB), you'll likely be without a frame for a few weeks while the old one goes back and the new one is sent out. The upside is that if you don't have any warranty issues, you got a reasonably good carbon frame for 1/3 the price. I definitely see value in the big brands' offerings and can appreciate what they do for their customers. I was stuck on whether I should get a discounted carbon frame on sale or get the FM-336 style frame. For me, it made the most sense to order the more affordable carbon frame. I'm a (very) casual rider and if I'm without a bike for a few weeks, I'm cool hiking or doing other things. If you need your bike to have the backing of the big brands and are depending on it for races, etc, you'd be crazy not to get a big brand frame (or have some sort of security net in place like a second or third frame). That's just what made sense for me, but obviously that will be different for everyone.

  25. #325
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    An update on the crack situation. I have heard back form HF that they will replace the front triangle under warranty, no questions asked. I have been holding out on the decision though because I really don't want to be left without a bike if it is not absolutely necessary. So I rode the bike for a 6hr epic, highly technical ride yesterday just to see if it would hold up. During the ride I felt the backend flex again and I was pretty bummed thinking that the crack had widened. So today (after regaining some strength from that long ride) i disassembled the bike and took a closer look. To my surprise the "crack" looked exactly the same. Not longer, not wider, just like before. So thats when I picked up the scalpel and CAREFULLY peeled of the top layer to see how deep it went. Once done it is pretty evident that this is probably not a substantial crack att all, probably just the paint that have moved less than the carbon fiber.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-screen-shot-2015-08-05-22.43.12.jpg

    This feels pretty good knowing. Now I can keep riding the bike and check so nothing more happens. If not I can reseal it and cover the area again.

    So what about that flexy feeling?
    Well, I've tried to move things around and find out if there is any play or movement inbetween the links and pivots. And this is what I found.
    The upper pivot points of the rear does have some lateral play. I think this is because there needs to be a small spacing between the upper link and the rear triangle pivots. Otherwise it would grind. I have tried to remedy this with a couple of 0,6mm nylon spacers that keeps the parts from moving sideways. It works pretty well.
    I also found that there might be a gap in tolerances on the lower link. All 8 pivot points have massive 28mm bearings. These bearings are of questionable quality and one of them is a bit coarse already. Still no play or lateral movement. But there are aluminum spacers between the bearings and the frame to make sure that there is spacing between the moving parts. I think these spacers are a bit on the thin side as they now allow bearings to move slightly laterally. I have tried to fix this with tightening the bolts to squeeze the whole package together, not giving a good result. I also found that one of the spacers on the lower link was probably out of spec there were 3 2,45mm spacers and one that was 2,30mm. 0,15mm might not sound like much but every bit of play on the link end translates to more movement at the axle. I tried to cure this by adding 0,1mm shims on all 4 lower link bearings. I then went on a ride on the mountain again.
    I think this did it. Rear end feels a lot better than yesterday and even though a lot might have been in my head it feels like the rear has a lot less of a slippery snake feeling.
    I will reach out to HF to see what they think about it.

  26. #326
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    LasseB, that is awesome. You are a trooper for doing all of that. Would it be a total pain for you to overlay that info on a side profile of the frame? I.e. just arrows pointing to where you added which spacers, where you had the "crack", etc. I'm just trying to visualize everything and these have so many bearings/links. It would be good so I (and others) know where to look if we have similar issues. Bravo on the investigation work! I'm hoping to have mine built up this weekend and hopefully have some better luck with tolerances. Do you think you'll replace all the 28mm bearings in the near future? I was thinking about doing that, but I probably won't until the first one fails.

  27. #327
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    Did they want you to return the triangle before they replaced it or where they happy with just photos of the damage?

  28. #328
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    Will try to point to some things on a blueprint tomorrow.
    The first thing I would check is if the 2 upper points on the rear frame does have any play in between the rear frame and the bolt heads. It is easily done by pushing laterally at the axle but it could be hard to distinguish. Also, make sure all 8 bolts are tightened before going out. Especially the lower right ones since they're behind the chainring and you have to remove the crankset every time you want to check them.

  29. #329
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    And emu26,
    They wanted me to return the front but the photos was enough for them to decide it probably was a warranty issue.
    Now, Im not sure myself so I'll wait with sending it in. But it's good to know that they are willing to replace it as is.

  30. #330
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    I went ahead and put new loctite on and torqued to the max (15 Nm I believe) on all of them just to be safe. Thanks for the heads up on all that. Super helpful! My two frames are at the LBS getting BB and headset installed (will be done on Friday). I should have them assembled this weekend if all goes well.

  31. #331
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    Hi, I have been looking at purchasing a Chinese carbon frame for a while. This - the fm336 is the only frame that I fancy. Are people having a lot of durability issues with it? Has anyone confirmed the rear travel distance, is it 150mm as specified.

    I found a company in the UK called Chemical that will build one up, looks like a very nice high spec. Waiting for the guy to come back on a price. He said they are still testing the frame themselves before offering it out to customers.
    2016 Enduro Bike ? Chemical Bikes

    The cracked frame in this thread worries me to be honest but I have been many big name brands with cracked carbon frames

  32. #332
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    LasseB - I'm thinking that maybe hung fu where delaying the frame because they knew there were some lateral play, maybe they run out of shims in the right size. Who knows, I'm just thinking out loud here, I mean you did rush them when "threatening" with a refund, and the possibility of them maybe missing such details is a possibility.
    My frame is in custom so will expect it soon, when I receive it I will disassemble the linkage to see if there's is any measurable differences in the build.

  33. #333
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    Ok, good questions.
    danzo;
    The frame in most respects is awesome. The overall design and the suspension efficiency is perfect. The frame that your'e pointing to is pretty much the same but the head ange is a lot slacker at 66,5 though it's a 160mm fork.
    I still don't think that my frame does have a crack. Just took the rear end apart and cant see any signs of any crack in the CF. This was probably just a paint issue.

    C-kaae:
    Well, yes, it could be that I "forced" HF to deliver a rushed frame that was not thoroughly tested but looking at the problems that I found I think it is pretty much in line with the blueprints that I've seen and maybe it was some minor faults in the assembly.
    I did a really thorough problem check on my frame when I still felt the lateral flex issue; I re-trued the rear wheel, reset the tire, got a new pump to check tire pressure. I also shimmed the spacers as I mentioned above and it felt a bit better. But to be honest I still feel like I'm riding on a wet noodle. This is particularly obvious when riding at low speed and even more when climbing low speed.
    I went as far as to build a rig to record slow-mo footage of the rear when moving across terrain and pedalling. It did prove to be worthless though, since modern cameras have too much oiptical stabilisation...
    I have been trying to figure out if this is a matter om me just being extra aware and it just becoming a mind trick. But today when riding for an hour with my wife in really comfortable tempo i could really feel how the bike is misbehaving. I'm really bummed to say that I have not been able to mitigate the problem, there is still very apparent back end flex.
    Tonight I disassembled the whole rear end (again, maybe 10th time...) and took out the 4 bearings of the lower link. This might be it. All 4 bearings are jagged, they do not roll smoothly. They are actually rolling a bit too good, like there is not enough friction and something is slightly to loose. On 2 of the bearings I can actually feel the play with my fingers when moving them laterally.
    I have now ordered 4 new enduro MAX bearings and will replace them as soon as they arrive. Will loctite them down in the link.
    If this improves the feel I will order 4 more for the upper link.
    I'm sorry for being this critical and ambivalent. I still think this is a great product that I still think has an tremendous potential. I would really love to see this frame blow the big brands out of the water because it's still a great design and it does have a really nice overall build quality.
    I promise to keep y'all posted to my findings.

  34. #334
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    LasseB thanks for all the work on this. I am building my bike up and should be riding by Tuesday (needed to order a couple things). I'm definitely interested in whether those bearings make a difference. I'll let you know how mine feels once it's up and running. I imagine it will ride similarly. I feel like I could feel a little play in the rear while I was working on it. We'll see.

  35. #335
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    LasseB, your work on this frame is like a Dramatic and Tense movie I cannot move away from. Keep up the good work, I am very interested how feasible this build would be.

    Cheers.

  36. #336
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    Ok, thanks for the encouragement.
    And today I have some really good news. I got up really, really early this morning and took out the upper link bearings as well. I then opened up all 8 bearings, cleaned, repacked them with grease and checked them for any play. There was noticeably more play in the lower 4 bearings, 2 of them were also gritty before i cleaned them out.
    So I then reseated the bearings and shifted positions so that the upper 4 now resides in the lower link and vice versa.
    I mounted everything and got myself a torque wrench and torqued all bolts to the recommended 15nm.
    Then nervously took the bike up and down the mountain.
    And what a bliss! The bike feels completely different. It feels composed, secure and way more stiff. Gone is the feeling of the front and rear having different wills. Now it feels like a bike like this should. It's rigid and feels confident again. I love it.

    So, what have I learned from this.
    1. The pivot bolts were badly assembled from the factory. I have already mentioned this but make sure you check all bolts and loctite them before using the frame.
    2. Do not over tighten the bolts! This is probably what happened to me. The bearings were laterally stressed from being over tightened because they kept coming loose. I should have used a torque wrench.
    3. The spacers that sits behind the bearings can be better designed. If they had better tolerances they would improve the life of the bearings. Maybe it was just mine that were out of spec because they were rushed from the factory.
    4. The bearings are not high quality.
    5. The bike feels great when everything is working like it should!

    So today is a great day. I have been really concerned, wanting to find a solution to this problem. But now I'm confident that with new fresh, better speced bearings in the lower link the bike will feel even better. Because all 8 of my bearings feel a little loose even though the upper 4 were miles better than the lowers.
    Happy days.

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    Ok, thanks for the encouragement. And today I have some really good news. snip
    Heya Mate,
    Thanks so much for all of the effort and risk you've taken with this frame I'm even more keen now to give one of these shot. With a few little tweaks, such as buying a full compliment of decent bearings, like SKF, to replace the cheapies, it will be a pretty damn awesome bike, especially for the price!

    Cheers again

  38. #338
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    No problem mate.
    And while I'm at it, here's learning no6
    6. The left side dropout is quite deep. And if you're using an e-thru qr, like the shimano sm-ax55 or similar, there might be a problem with the spanner side not engaging with the "bottom" of the dropout. I had this problem and it caused the spanner head to rest on the rim of the hole rather than the bottom. And that's of course a bad thing. That probably added to the flexy feel a bit. This was a simple fix though. I just seated a standard m12 washer (o.d 23mm) in there, adding 1,5mm or so to the thickness, making the spanner head stand clear of the sides. To be honest, first when building the bike it felt a bit naked with the axle engaging with only cf. This might have been a thing in my frame only and others might have an added alu washer in there. This might also not be a problem if using another axle like a RWS or bolt on.

  39. #339
    A waste of time it is is
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    So pleased to hear this LAsseB, it must be a real relief to get it feeling they way you expected it to.

    May I ask that when you go about replacing the bearings you take some photos and either start a new thread, linked back to here, or even just post up here with how you went about replacing them and also a link to the bearings you used? I ask because I don't think everyone looking at this frame as an alternative to the $2500 + brand name frames would have the experience of doing this in the past and the thought of doing it "blind" may just be enough to put them off.

    Again, well done and so glad it has worked out.

  40. #340
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    I've ordered 8 enduro MAX bearings to replace the originals because it felt very "fragile " to me also. Just hope these from enduro are just as good as they advertise.
    LasseB can you tell me what is width of the bushing that you use on your rear shock? Just to check the similarity of the frames. Mine has a 22.2mm inner gap at the shock's eyelet both upper and lower. Another thing I've noticed has to do with tolerances inside the BB. I have a Raceface BB for a 30mm spindle and the drive-side cup went halfway by hand. Surely have to take some sort of Loctite.
    Anyway I'm glad to hear that you're finally taking full pleasure of it.

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    May I ask that when you go about replacing the bearings you take some photos and either start a new thread, linked back to here, or even just post up here with how you went about replacing them and also a link to the bearings you used? I ask because I don't think everyone looking at this frame as an alternative to the $2500 + brand name frames would have the experience of doing this in the past and the thought of doing it "blind" may just be enough to put them off.
    Nail on the head with that comment, minimal experience here but enough curiosity to attempt this. Still weighing up total costs and "difficulty level". Thanks again LasseB, if you do not mind sharing, what do you think was your estimated total spend in $$ (I know time is money too!)

    Cheers!

  42. #342
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    Emu26, Snob Effect:
    I will try to do this. Might take some time to get a decent post together though.
    I'ts not a hard thing to do if you know where to be careful and use the "right" tools. I did only use a couple of nuts, washers and bolts and a 12mm socket. I would call myself an experienced home tinkerer though. This would be a medium difficulty kind of job.
    The only money I've spent on this whole problem search is the money on the bearings and they are thankfully quite cheap, even for being bearings. They're $6.75 (6902 LLU MAX-BO) each on enduroforkseals.com . You can probably find even cheaper ones, like $2,99 but they might have the same durability issues. I do recommend you to run with the ones that are installed until you do find them worn out. With the right care and torquing they might work for quite some time in the right (dry) conditions.
    Then there's of course minor costs for a m12 washer, a nylon cutting board and an empty beer can, but it's not certain that any of these will be necessary with others frames.

    Pauloplus:
    Yes, the 2 bushings I use are the standard 22mm, the actually came with the shock that I ordered, which was nice.
    As for the bottom bracket I use a shimano XTR with an internal GXP adapter to be able to use a Truvativ Noir carbon crankset. I did not notice any tolerance problems when installing it even though I noticed it was quite easy to get it in there. And it has been creak free so far. I don't think you will have a problem with yours, but sensible amounts of loctite might be a good thing to add.
    And while Im at it, how does your left side dropout look Pauloplus? Is there only clean cf at the bottom surface, or is there some added alu? How does your rear axle fit?

  43. #343
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    My rear axles were both a bear to get in. The dropouts on both frames are pretty crappy. I had to kind of spread them apart to get the hub in. Then I had to really play with the axle to get it in. When I removed one of the axles it the black paint was totally stripped off where it goes through the frame.

    I'm having a bit of trouble getting a bh90 brake line through one of the frames' internal routes. Anyone have any suggestions? It feels like it is snagging on something (or maybe turning too tightly). It is going up the left side. I can see the brake line about an inch inside the tube. I greased it up and have felt around for obstructions. I can send a cable down the opposite direction though it is very tight at the beginning. I have tried muscling it through but it just gets stuck. Any help or ideas would be awesome!

  44. #344
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    mryno:
    Yeah, that's my experience too, I have to push the chainstays apart to get the wheel in there. And for the actual dropout finish, that black paint is only because they didn't mask the alu parts enough, so some areas around pivots and dropouts got some paint, which is stripping of very easily, but it's not a problem since it is minor areas which should not have paint to begin with.
    As for the brake line route, I think I mentioned that earlier, it fels very tight. Didn't have the line snag on me but I had to apply some pressure at the end.
    if it is only at the first inch of the channel, one way to improve the width would be to glue some fine grit sandpaper (240? 400?) onto something long, thin and flexible and grind it down to be smoother. But very carefully of course!

  45. #345
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    LasseB: the inside face of the left dropout it's cf only. It has exactly 5mm deep. The axle fits normally, it is curious though that they have send along with the frame a rear axle.
    Regarding bushings, do you have any play there whatsoever?

  46. #346
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    Oh, so you actually got an axle with your frame?
    Regarding the bushings, yes there is play if not tightened. But shock bushings are supposed to be fixed, so you can tighten them quite a lot.

  47. #347
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    Yes but is seems to be a shimano sm-ax55 or something very similar. The left to right inside dropout of my frame measures exactly 142mm. No forcing nothing there.

  48. #348
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    LasseB,

    What did you use the empty beer can for? Did you use that to cut out aluminum shims/spacers for between the pivot bearings and linkage?

    All 8 pivot bearings are 15mm x 28mm x 7mm?

    How were the tolerances for the integrated headset? Is it a snug fit?

  49. #349
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    govertime:
    Yes, classic beer can shimming. Will probably do something more sophisticated once the new bearings are fitted and it proves to be working.

    Yes, all bearings are 15x28x7. Also known as 6902 2RS or sometimes 61902. They are quite common as suspension bearings and in hubs. I will probably source the other 4 from an early retired Superstar Components Tesla rear hub that has 4 of them in there. Save me a penny.

    The headset fitted fine. I used the one that was supplied from HF and it fitted quite easily. No problem with creaking. I have been re-tensioning the stem for some play a couple of times though.

  50. #350
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    Just to solidify the fact that the bearings are crap, I had to remove the lower link on one of the frames (it was upside down which kept the rear shock from being mounted) and I noticed that the movement was not smooth at all. It caught in 3 or so places over a 90 degree rotation. So, I may end up replacing those once I can actually get the brake line through the frame. I'm getting a pipe cleaner on the way home from work and I am going to lube the crap out of the top bend in that tube. I'm hoping that will do the trick. If not, I may have another idea that could work before I just try threading it through the other side and hope that the rear shifter cable is a better fit for that side. :-)

    So, yeah. Crappy bearings regardless of the torque. Still haven't checked the lateral movement of the rear, but maybe tonight after I get everything put together.

  51. #351
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    No problem with brake hoses (BH90 as well) getting through the frame. I use a Cane Creek 40 headset and also fits well.

  52. #352
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    LasseB: One thing to remember with your Enduro MAX Bearings when they arrive is to make sure you re-pack them with a good quality, thick grease.

    Dunno if you have it over there but here in Aus I use Castrol Marine/General purpose grease (blue grease). It's thick and long lasting and will see any bearings through a lot longer.

    Especially Enduro MAX bearings, or any "Full Compliment" bearings for that matter. The thing with them is that they don't have a race, just a full set of ball bearings under the seals. While that is good for strength and resistance to loads, the downside is that there is less room for grease by virtue of their design. That, combined with the factory grease being a bit thin sometimes, is a good reason for making sure you clean them out and re-pack the properly.

    On my 5.7C and my Phoenix, brand new Enduros would get me maybe 6 months. Enduros re-packed solidly with thick grease lasted at least 12 before needing a repack, and have been good for a couple of years without replacing.

  53. #353
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    Isildur:
    Great advice! Did not plan to repack them, but now I certainly will.

  54. #354
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    Enduro MAX bearings absolutely have a race. They lack a retainer (that contains the bearings).

    The Black Oxide (BO) bearings LasseB has are already packed with green/blue CRC Marine grease - http://endurobearings.com/wp-content...Full-.xlsx.pdf

    I just picked some up and they were packed well.

    Edit: Clarify Regular vs Enduro MAX cross-section




  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by govertime View Post
    Enduro MAX bearings absolutely have a race. They lack a retainer (that contains the bearings).

    The Black Oxide (BO) bearings LasseB has are already packed with green/blue CRC Marine grease - http://endurobearings.com/wp-content...Full-.xlsx.pdf

    I just picked some up and they were packed well.

    Edit: Clarify Regular vs Enduro MAX cross-section
    Cheers for the clarification on that, always good to learn.

    I still stand by my experience though that Enduro Max bearings are much lighter on the grease packing that other bearings. The additional "full compliment" ball bearings leave less space overall for grease, meaning better/more attentive packing is required.

    YMMV though, but I've found all Enduro Max I've purchased to last far longer when repacked before installation.

  56. #356
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    So I got both frames built up. I finally threaded that stupid BH90 line. The issue was that the turn was just a little too sharp inside the tube. I ended up removing the outer black casing about 2.5 inches making the line narrow enough to make the turn. I then pushed from the bottom and used some pliers to pull the top. After cutting that 2.5 inches off to connect the brake, I had just the right amount of line left.

    Ok. On to the issues. They aren't deal breakers, but they are good to know about. We hit on a couple of these already.

    Bearings - The stock ones are pretty cheap
    Rear Axle - Fits very tightly
    Rear Dropouts - Doesn't fit very well. Hub can't slide in or drop out
    Internal Routing - Very tight with BH90, but seems to be ok on most frames
    Squeaking Rear Linkage - Still trying to pinpoint where this is coming from on my bike. I'm fairly sure it's one of the linkages, but am only 95% sure
    Flexing Rear - Back end feels like it is rotating slightly when rear is flexing. Could be due to the play that LasseB was describing. A little unsettling at first but hopefully solvable with nylon shims.
    Front Derailleur Mount - My Front derailleur mount is slightly off. Seems like the mount is rotated slightly clockwise causing the back of the derailleur to contact the chain on any bumps despite being as low as it will go.

    Here's what my build looks like:
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150813_190111_lo2.jpg
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150813_190029_lo.jpg

  57. #357
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    ..awesome! thx for the added info and pics. have any close-up pics of the frame? *thumbs up*
    ..sleep is good...

  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by th1npower View Post
    ..awesome! thx for the added info and pics. have any close-up pics of the frame? *thumbs up*
    Here are a few close ups. Sorry for the low quality. If you want to see anything specific or have questions, feel free to ask.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150814_090511.jpgChina Carbon AM Duallies-20150814_090537.jpgChina Carbon AM Duallies-20150814_090604.jpg

    *On the bottom picture, you can see that the chain will rub on the back of the front derailleur even with it pushed all the way down.

  59. #359
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    Been following this thread with great interest and read every page of it - LasseB , mryno, Papadpoulous kinda pioneers in a way can you post your thoughts on long term use of this frame ?

    Pl also post your build specs of components.
    The flex you mentioned under heavy cranking, is that fixed by upgrading bearings ? Hopefully its not bad where it jumps gears.

  60. #360
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    It seems like this frame will hold up fairly well. The carbon work is pretty decent (not great, but good enough). And it seems like it could stand up to quite a bit. So, I'd say that if you are putting serious miles on the bike and riding every day, this may not be the best route because I think the issues will start coming when you are taking things apart for service. That is just a guess though. If you are going for a few rides a week or less and are more casual (not depending on the frame as a source of income), it should hold up well enough. In my mind, even if it only lasts a few years, I can buy 3 of them before I have hit the same price as a big brand frame. As a casual rider, I think it will last much longer for me. I guess the short answer is that it should be good long term, but it is still early.

    As for my frames, I think I am right at $3000 each for my builds give or take $100. Here is my list of parts (sorry for the length):

    Fox 34 Float 27.5" 160mm CTD Fit Fork
    Fox Float CTD RP23 Rear Shock 7.875 x 2"
    Shimano Saint M820 Disk Brakes (I weigh in at 220 lbs, so I went a little nuts)
    Shimano XT RT86 IceTech Brake Rotor 6-Bolt (180mm Front, 160mm Rear)
    Shimano XTR M980 10 Spd Rapidfire Shifters
    Shimano XT Dyna-Sys 10 Speed Cassette 11-34
    Shimano XT M786 GS Shadow Plus Rear Derailleur
    Shimano XT M785 10 Speed Double Chainset 38-26, 175mm
    Shimano XT M786 Direct Mount 2x10 Front Derailleur
    Shimano XTR SM-BB94-41A PressFit MTB Bottom Bracket
    Shimano XT HG95 10 Speed HGX Chain
    DT Swiss E1900 Spline 27.5" Wheelset (Shimano cassette compatible)
    Easton Havoc 35 Stem
    Easton Havoc 35 Carbon Lo 800 Handlebars
    3T Stylus 0 Team Stealth Carbon Seat Post, 31.6 x 420mm
    WTB Pure Race Saddle Black 2015
    Maxxis High Roller II Tire 650bx2.3 TR Dual EXO
    Wellgo CNC Platform B143 Pedals
    Origin8 Carbon Seat Clamp, 34.9mm
    Easton Mountain Grip, Red, 33mm
    Scotch Film Strapping Tape 8896 (AWESOME for running tubeless rims)
    Carbon Headset Spacers 1-1/8" (from Amazon)
    Cane Creek 40-Series Zs Tapered Headset (Part# BAA0533K)

    Also, I am a very amateur mountain biker and don't have much experience maintaining or building bikes. I am pretty handy in general, though. I was able to complete the entire build on my own. The only exception was I had the bottom brackets pressed into the frames by a bike shop. I created my own headset press, but I would advise against that. Just pay a shop to take care of the headset and bottom bracket to be safe. I just enjoy the challenge (it bites me in the butt every once in a while).

  61. #361
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    LasseB, did those nylon spacers you used work well? Can you send me a link to something like what you used? I think the slight rotation I feel is probably the small gaps you were dealing with.

    Were those Enduro MAX bearings a drop-in replacement (any additional hardware required? use same stock black spacer/washer?) I've never packed bearings before, so maybe there is a better option to directly replace the stock bearings for noobs like me?

  62. #362
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    Mryno - looks Great, almost same setup as me, how is the clerance around the rear tire ?
    And how do you fell about the fork length, I got the same model just in 150mm but was thinking about changing the spacer to make it a bit longer.

  63. #363
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    mryno:
    I think that the spacers did help a bit with the little creaking issue because it reduced the lateral movement between the upper rear pivot points and the upper link. It did not stop the play completely though. It's really hard to say if that made any difference in mitigating the overall flex. I just cut some rings out of a thin nylon cutting board and had to sand them down a bit to about 0,6mm. Inner diameter is the more important factor, being slightly bigger than the 22mm spacer.

    I have not received my MAX bearings yet, but found 3 good quality SKF and some new, lower spec (ABEC3) bearings for the time being. I have one Enduro Blue Seal in the mix, which is not filled to the max with balls (MAX bearings are) but it was pretty well filled with grease so I should expect the MaXs to be as well. Will report.
    May have sometime tonight to do the interim bearing change with this fresh setup and may take some pictures to show the procedure.

  64. #364
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    good job on the build, looks awesome!

    how much rear travel do you get with the 7.875 x 2" shock? how do you know what tune (velocity (compression) / rebound) to go with?

    at this point, my biggest concern is the rear triangle, specifically the noodly flex and inconsistent axle spacing.

  65. #365
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    I couldn't speak to exactly how much travel the rear gets but I believe it's 150mm (ish). After properly inflating my rear shock, the rear was way more predictable. I actually didn't notice any wobble/turning at all (imagine that!). I originally had it at 170 PSI but it really needed around 210. The squeaking wasn't an issue today either. It was completely gone. Maybe grease just needed to work its way into things. The axel fit is a little odd but it shouldn't affect things too much. The rear is flexible enough to get the wheel on and off pretty easily. I'm taking my bikes to get tuned this week which should hopefully help iron out any other issues. I'll update on how that goes.

  66. #366
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    With the list of problems discovered during the build process, has anyone contact the supplier (hung-fu) and mentioned the issues? I'm just thinking that giving this feedback might help them refine the frame and make it better - in the best case scenarios, replace effected ones with new versions including higher quality bearings, updated carbon mould to marke fitting more accurate etc.

    Has anyone pushed back and stated they have found these problems? Mine arrives in a couple of days and I just don't want this hassle, I might send it on and ask for a refund. What do you think their stance would be?

  67. #367
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    Quick update:
    With new bearings, including 4 Enduro MAXs för the lower link, 20 extra psi in the shock and extra 0,2 bar (1,3) in the rear tyre the bike feels a lot, lot more solid.
    The Enduro bearings were pretty well filled up but I put some extra in there just to be on the safe side.
    Will take it on a long, very technical ride tomorrow and report how it holds up.

  68. #368
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    Brilliant, great to see if this fixes the problems. Keep us posted 👍🏻

  69. #369
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    Im really glad I didnt jump on this ship and got a Santa Cruz instead. I think its awesome you guys are pioneering it with this frame and learning what works and what doesnt. I ride my bike too much to worry about bearings and flex in the rear of an all mountain bike. I really wanted to like this frame, but after reading the first hand experiences its obvious that the chinese have a lot to learn on full suspension design. I have a hardtail 29er and it is perfect, but then again there arent lots of bearings and suspension design to worry about. Carry on fellas, not trying to hate just being realistic.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  70. #370
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    andyfloyd, after building my own bike, I can definitely see the value in buying a completed bike. No shame in that at all. I think that my issues are pretty much disappearing with actually doing the things I should have. :-) I dropped the bike off today at the LBS to do a full tune and I think that will bring it to where I hoped it would be. Hopefully with a professional who knows what he's doing, everything will just fall together. I know I don't really know what I'm doing as this is my first build and I assume/hope that is where most of my issues are probably coming from. But, like you said, there is something great about buying something and having it meet/exceed your expectations from day one and I'm sure I'll go that route for my next bike. As a budget-minded guy who wanted to understand how bikes work and build one on my own, this one seems to have fit the bill really well. As long as the front derailleur rub can be fixed by the LBS, the bike will meet/exceed my expectations. We'll see tomorrow when I pick the bike up! *crosses fingers*

  71. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyfloyd View Post
    Im really glad I didnt jump on this ship and got a Santa Cruz instead. I think its awesome you guys are pioneering it with this frame and learning what works and what doesnt. I ride my bike too much to worry about bearings and flex in the rear of an all mountain bike. I really wanted to like this frame, but after reading the first hand experiences its obvious that the chinese have a lot to learn on full suspension design. I have a hardtail 29er and it is perfect, but then again there arent lots of bearings and suspension design to worry about. Carry on fellas, not trying to hate just being realistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by mryno View Post
    andyfloyd, after building my own bike, I can definitely see the value in buying a completed bike. No shame in that at all. I think that my issues are pretty much disappearing with actually doing the things I should have. :-) I dropped the bike off today at the LBS to do a full tune and I think that will bring it to where I hoped it would be. Hopefully with a professional who knows what he's doing, everything will just fall together. I know I don't really know what I'm doing as this is my first build and I assume/hope that is where most of my issues are probably coming from. But, like you said, there is something great about buying something and having it meet/exceed your expectations from day one and I'm sure I'll go that route for my next bike. As a budget-minded guy who wanted to understand how bikes work and build one on my own, this one seems to have fit the bill really well. As long as the front derailleur rub can be fixed by the LBS, the bike will meet/exceed my expectations. We'll see tomorrow when I pick the bike up! *crosses fingers*
    Both you guys have valid points. On one hand you have people like Andyfloyd who just want to ride, and doesn't want to deal with dicking around with minor tuning that's needed for these frames (although he does own a Chinese HT which doesn't have the weak point of needing to mess around with bearings and such). He might know the basics about maintenance and takes his bike to the LBS for more major work. His time is probably more valuable to him to be riding and/or dealing with other hobbies/work/wife/kids to be messing around with fine tuning a bike. To that I say ride on bro. And yes the Chinese have a long way to go but I sincerely think that they're getting there and in 5 years they'll have a decent design that might even be able to compete with the big heavy hitters. I order Chinese stuff for my other hobbies all the time and the quality of some of their things are top notch for dirt cheap (I love ordering RC and electronics hobby stuff off HobbyKing, but I also order electronics stuff from Mouser, DigiKey, and Newark).

    Then there's people like most others in this thread that love tinkering around, fine tuning, etc. and could spend hours and hours on one little annoyance and get pleasure from solving it and that's how they like to spend their free time. I'm one of these people (obviously), I do my own car maintenance and sure I might be slower but the time I spend fixing and solving these things are worth it to me and I get pleasure from doing it (especially since my "stealership" charges out the nose for parts+labour).

    In the end all it really boils down to is. Do you buy say a BMW M3 and leave it stock ("Bought not built") or do you buy a Subie WRX STI and mod the shit out of it ("Built not bought") in order to make it similar in performance to the M3 (although you will spend hours and hours on fine tuning and probably way more in parts).

  72. #372
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    You mean a WRX STI isn't better than an M3 off the showroom floor?

  73. #373
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    That's rigth about it Tier1. Even if I had the money to buy a SC, which would cost 3X this frame's cost, there is nothing or almost nothing to upgrade. I'll prefer getting there becoming part of the solution.

  74. #374
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    I prefer to take a bigger risk, it all work out fine, and I have an amazing bike for less money. No extra effort required. I have built 4 bikes in my time, I want things to get easier...

  75. #375
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    Suspension Parts

    China Carbon AM Duallies-part-suspension.jpg

    This is a set of bolts and bearings for the frame suspension. All bolts and bearings from hung fu. I enquired about a cost for a spare set. $65 for all of this - $35 for just the bearings. Are these the same bearings in your frame? Does anyone know from the image what grade of bearing they are (i'm guessing not).

  76. #376
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    The bearings pictured don't have rubber seals, which is a pathetically poor choice for bike applications, and its already been discussed that they're poor quality.

    Personally, I'd get everything but the bearings (for $30?) while you can. If you need replacement hardware down the line...good luck.

    I'd purchase Enduro MAX BO bearings separately.

  77. #377
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    Also, the photo seems to show two different bearing sizes. LasseB said all 8 bearings are 6902.

  78. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tier1 View Post
    Both you guys have valid points. On one hand you have people like Andyfloyd who just want to ride, and doesn't want to deal with dicking around with minor tuning that's needed for these frames (although he does own a Chinese HT which doesn't have the weak point of needing to mess around with bearings and such). He might know the basics about maintenance and takes his bike to the LBS for more major work. His time is probably more valuable to him to be riding and/or dealing with other hobbies/work/wife/kids to be messing around with fine tuning a bike. To that I say ride on bro. And yes the Chinese have a long way to go but I sincerely think that they're getting there and in 5 years they'll have a decent design that might even be able to compete with the big heavy hitters. I order Chinese stuff for my other hobbies all the time and the quality of some of their things are top notch for dirt cheap (I love ordering RC and electronics hobby stuff off HobbyKing, but I also order electronics stuff from Mouser, DigiKey, and Newark).

    Then there's people like most others in this thread that love tinkering around, fine tuning, etc. and could spend hours and hours on one little annoyance and get pleasure from solving it and that's how they like to spend their free time. I'm one of these people (obviously), I do my own car maintenance and sure I might be slower but the time I spend fixing and solving these things are worth it to me and I get pleasure from doing it (especially since my "stealership" charges out the nose for parts+labour).

    In the end all it really boils down to is. Do you buy say a BMW M3 and leave it stock ("Bought not built") or do you buy a Subie WRX STI and mod the shit out of it ("Built not bought") in order to make it similar in performance to the M3 (although you will spend hours and hours on fine tuning and probably way more in parts).
    LOL, I love to tinker. I dont take my bikes to an LBS because I build them all myself and do all my own work but good guess I suppose. I bought my chinese HT frame and built it myself, and my Santa Cruz Blur I bought as a frameset and built it as I saw fit. So yea, I can do all my own work....but who wants to be messing with frame flex in the rear and crappy bearings? I like to tinker but I also like to trust my equipment, and I wouldnt trust a flexy rear end of an all mountain bike...not really confidence inspiring. My Santa Cruz is stiff, has a great warranty, has bearings that last, and the frame was on closeout last year cheaper than this Chinese Frameset would have been.

    What Im saying it, I dont want to fix issues that shouldnt be there in the first place, I want a bike that works...I dont mind fixing things but right off the bat the bike shouldnt need so much massaging to get to work correctly.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    You mean a WRX STI isn't better than an M3 off the showroom floor?
    I think that may depend on where you plan on driving it.

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    I ordered a set of these in anticipation: cheap but they appear to be better than the crap they have put in. 6902 Bearing 6902 2RS Bearing ABEC 5 15x28x7mm Ball Bearing 6902 Bearing 4 pcs | eBay

  81. #381
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    EVO>STI > M3

    this is how it is.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  82. #382
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    I said this many months ago in this thread but due to recent posts I think I'll repeat it:
    With a bike that will be used for XC and light trail riding geo doesn't have to be perfect and durability and flex are minor issues. When a bike is marketed as "all mountain" or "enduro" it will be ridden on the edge of control. Minor differences in geometry and wheel path affect handling and control. Most riders are a lot pickier about the feel of a bike they are jumping and going fast on. An all mountain bike will also see much harder use so pivot and frame durability will come into play within the first year of use. Is it worth risking problems during a race weekend or riding trip?
    I have a Chinese hardtail and would consider a chinese short travel FS XC frame. For enduro style riding I'm picky and there's only a few frames on the market I'd ride.

    P.S. I own a 2004 Sti, fairly modified, and a quiver of Santa Cruz bikes, all built up from frames.
    Keep the Country country.

  83. #383
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    Alright! Got my bike back from the LBS and what a difference $48 makes! All the issues are cleared up. I'm sure most of them were due to me not knowing what I was doing. It is my first build, after all. I had them show me what they did so hopefully my next build will be a bit better. I have to say that the bike has really changed drastically.

    To add to what you guys have said, I think there are some awesome points. If I were more of an enduro/all-mountain mountain guy with some decent experience I could definitely see how trusting equipment trumps getting something cheap. The reality, for me anyways, is I will probably be doing mostly XC riding with some light AM thrown in the mix every now and then. I see this bike as being my gateway into developing those skills at a low barrier to entry while getting to build a bike and learn a bit. I have only had access to one mountain bike in recent years (2012 Stumpjumper my friend never used), so definitely take that into consideration when I am giving my feedback.

    My neighbor who is much more hard core (daily rider) was impressed taking it around the block but maybe I should have him take it for the day and give me some more reliable feedback.

    If anyone is in Utah and wants to go on a ride and trade bikes for a bit, I'd be totally down for that if it helps the decision making process. Outside of that, I'll see what feedback I can get from people who are more involved in AM riding. I'm sure guys like LasseB could give more refined feedback, too. As of now, the feel of this bike is definitely better than the Stumpjumper (based on riding the fire road by my house).

  84. #384
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    Well i'm a hard rider, I did quite a few downhill runs on my last AM bike and ride red and black graded trails. I'm not going to go easy on this one. I'm going to find out every secret as fast as possible, even if it falls apart on me. I have had a pro bike builder build this for me, he is a senior mechanic, i'm meeting him face to face next week and will ask him if he found any issues but nothing to report. This has come direct from CHEMICAL - will upload a pic asap. I might even film the unboxing process.

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by mryno View Post
    I had them show me what they did...
    What did they do to make it better ('change drastically')?

  86. #386
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    First ride with serial bearings yet, everything's ok, no creak or any other strange sounds. just a few kilometers in a non-aggressive offroad trail though. Exactly 12 kg (26,4Lb) as it is. Just received the MAX bearings and will mount them soon anyway.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150819_144050%5B1%5D.jpg

  87. #387
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well fm336

    Last edited by danzo; 01-24-2016 at 02:29 AM.

  88. #388
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    Ok, I see there's a lot of discussion going on around the rear end issue and if it is worth the money.
    I have now replaced the lower 4 bearings to the Enduro MAX's and it confirms the theory about the quality of bearings being the real issue. At least with my frame. I suppose that since it is still early in HF production cycle they can decide to deliver peoples frames with different components.
    Anyways, last night I took the bike on a 2,5 hr technical trail ride, the trails that Im most used to - a lot of roots, rocks and sometimes almost trials like sections mixed with steep ascents and short downhill sections. This is what I ride 2 times a week and what I would really use to evaluate the rigidity of a frame compared to my previous bikes - a 2011 26" Camber and a 650B converted Scott Ransom. The Scott was solid as a rock (and as heavy) and the camber was light, nimble but quite soft in the rear end.
    With the new bearings in and all settings dialled the bike really blew my mind. I was very surprised of how it delivered on this kind of trails. It climbed really well mannered, it ate small and medium bumps like it was nothing and it really gave me confidence on the descents. And what was an even more of a pleasant surprise was that it feels playful and nimble despite the wheelsize, the longish rear stays and the quite steep head angle. You really want to shoot off stuff and jump it around.
    When it comes to the flex issue I had some friends laugh at me when I tried to show them the perceived movement in the chain stays. I actually had to go wiggle their bikes chainstays to realize that my rear end is stiffer that a Stumpjumper and a cube AMS's. The flex was now non existent and had only left a psychosomatic trace in my mind. At the end of the night this was also gone and I went to sleep totally beat but with a silly grin on my face.

    Lets take a look at how I changed the bearings.

    Remove rear wheel and crankset
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_120638.jpg

    Remove all linkage bolts. Make sure to support the rear frame when it comes loose otherwise it will hang by the gear cable and brake line.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_120850.jpg

    Don't loose the spacers for all bearings and remember which one goes where. Mine were a bit out of tolerance but I suppose that there should be only 2 sizes. 2.45 for the lower 4 and 2,95 for the upper 4.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_121616.jpg

    Now it's time to get the bearings out. This is what I used to tap them out: a 13mm socket and a long m8 bolt. The socket needs to be chamfered to fit through the 22mm hole of the linkages. The m8 bolt I used has a head that fits perfectly into the socket slot and is still thin enough to go through the 15mm hole of the opposite bearing. Should work with a normal 1/2" extension shaft too.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_122958.jpg

    Tap them out carefully. Try to tap "around" the bearing so you don't risk to snag it and ruin the housing. Use a small hammer so you don't risk using too much force.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_121726.jpg

    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_121850.jpg
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_121858.jpg

    The lower link is better to just hold in you hand while tapping.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_123039.jpg

    Clean out all bearing housing bores and check so everything is in order.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_124352.jpg

    Apply a light layer of grease to the housings. This is to make insertion easier.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_124505.jpg

    These are my Enduro MAXs. They came pretty well packed...
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150817_193857.jpg

    ...but I decided to clean them out and repack them with white lithium grease. Any high quality grease would do I believe. It's meant to keep the dirt out.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_122754.jpg

    Now it's time to get the new bearings in there. First carefully position the bearing so that it is straight.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_124648.jpg

    This is what I used to press them in. A short m10 bolt a washer big enough to not go through the hole in the link and distribute pressure evenly...
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_124806.jpg

    ... another washer on top big enough to put pressure evenly on the bearing, but not bigger than the bearing, and lastly a nut on the top.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_124906.jpg

    Then slowly tighten the whole package, pressing the bearing into the housing bore. Make sure the bolt package is centered and that the bearing goes in straight. Watch out if it starts to feel like you're forcing it in. Eventually it will reach the bottom and you have to be careful to not over tighten since that can ruin the bearing.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_130327.jpg

    When all bearings are in place, reassemble linkages and tighten bolts to spec.
    I still have a little play in my upper link at the rear triangle end. I don't think this affects the ride at all but I put back the nylon spacers that I made. I don't think this is necessary but if you do have some creaking issues this might help.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-20150816_133600.jpg

    Now you're ready to ride.

    And remember, this is at your own risk. If you ruin your frame or poke an eye out, don't come crying to me. I'd say it's a medium difficulty procedure so if you haven't tinkered with stuff like this before you should probably let your local mechanic do it for you.
    Last edited by LasseB; 08-22-2015 at 08:16 AM.

  89. #389
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    Im glad that the bike is performing better with high quality bearings in the linkages. Hopefully HF will take note of all these things and use this information to make their bikes better. I love my 29er hardtail from China....ive got over 1600 miles on it and its been really really good.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  90. #390
    A waste of time it is is
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    Awesome work LasseB, thanks.

  91. #391
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    n

    not found
    Last edited by danzo; 01-24-2016 at 02:29 AM. Reason: Add link

  92. #392
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    Danzo, I assume you are building the same spec as the Chemical Enduro based off this picture? If you are, I am wanting to do the same, but need to buy all components also as I have a 26" now. What Size and Spec Rear and Front suspension please?
    Cheers!

  93. #393
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    Not found
    Last edited by danzo; 01-24-2016 at 02:30 AM.

  94. #394
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    Thanks for the info Danzo. Looks wicked either way but the Graphics does add a bit more Legitimacy to it in some regard. Yea their prices seem very fair but I already ordered a full 1x11 XT Shimano gear system upgrade with shifter for my current bike before I stumbled on this Chinese Carbon Dually and now eventually Chemical also... Now I feel like i need to go to a 650B over my 26" Marin Wolf Ridge. The decisions...
    A spec'd bike like that with other Bigger Name Brands are worth at Least 5.5K IMO. Wonder how much shipping to Aus would be

  95. #395
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    Don't forget to then add GST plus, I think 4% duty ( I could be wrong on the duty as I don't remember if you pay duty on whole bikes or parts over $1k) and then on top of all of that you have to pay customs and brokers fees.

    I wonder if the price from Hong Fu has dropped now that they have devalued their currency?

  96. #396
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    I got a price from Nancy at HF a few weeks ago, see below for layout, all prices USD:

    FM336:$850/set
    headset:$15
    ship cost:$85
    4.5% for paypal charge:$42.75
    the total price:$992.75

    Dunno how that plays to what they used to be.

  97. #397
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    About the same from memory.

    For me this is where this proposition stops making sense. Thats $1k US for a frame, delivered. Then you've got to buy a shock as well as now replace the bearings. You can pick up closeouts from both IBIS and Santa Cruse for around the $1500 mark for a brand name frame that will include both the rep and the warranty that goes along with it. The difference in cost is just too small to make this viable afaiac.

  98. #398
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    Last edited by danzo; 01-24-2016 at 02:31 AM.

  99. #399
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    Took the bike out on its first REAL ride (I've had back issues keeping me from going). I can say that this bike handles extremely well. I will say that I probably could have gone with the single chainring up front and been fine. So if you're on the fence, just go single. I'm a weak rider and not in my best shape and I stuck to one ring through a ton of climbing and descents.

    Today I rode Rush in Corner Canyon (after quite a climb) which was absolutely beyond my (perceived) skill level. The bike performed remarkably well. The Saint brakes probably saved me from flying through a technical turn so if you're a heavier guy (I'm 215 lbs), it's worth considering Saint or Zee. The bike was just great though. I don't think I'll be spending the time to change out the bearings because it really was just a joy to ride today. Nothing negative to say about the frame though I do have some tweaking to do to dial in the ride but I'm sure that's normal. Just had to share the great experience!

    Also, I ran into a guy from China who was telling me about the frame manufacturers and confirmed some things and also spoke to the quality a bit. Overall, he had great things to say and mostly just confirmed what I had experienced. Nice guy! The take away was all positive.

  100. #400
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    Great to hear that the frame is performing well for you guys. I do believe in chinese carbon frames since I have a 29er hardtail from china that I absolutely love to death. Ride on fellas!
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

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