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  1. #651
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    I did ask them (dengfu) exactly that:

    Code:
    Hi Kelsey Xiao
    hi. I am looking for a 27.5 or 26 MTB frame that has front fork travle of more than 140mm and smaller HA angle than 68*. All I found on your websites was 68*. Do you have full suspensions frames with a lower angle than 68*?
    Code:
    Hello Ibo,
    
    Our smaller HA angle is 68* for full suspensions frame.
    And only FM288 has front fork travle of more than 140mm and HA angle 68*.
    Is ok for you?
    I figured that is standard. If you want more angle, you can use angleset, or off spec size rear shock, longer forks.

    this guy describes how he did that with the schock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySAKcRrsOXI&t=208s

  2. #652
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    Can someone please tell me the shock bushing size, of the Imust/Ican S7 frame. I am still waiting for imust-sports to reply to my email about the shock bushings on the S7.


    alucke

  3. #653
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    I use a slakeizer

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  4. #654
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    For my Fox CTD I used 8mmx22.2 front and back.

    Joel

    Quote Originally Posted by alucke View Post
    Can someone please tell me the shock bushing size, of the Imust/Ican S7 frame. I am still waiting for imust-sports to reply to my email about the shock bushings on the S7.


    alucke

  5. #655
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    OK thank u

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  6. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    I did ask them (dengfu) exactly that:

    Code:
    Hi Kelsey Xiao
    hi. I am looking for a 27.5 or 26 MTB frame that has front fork travle of more than 140mm and smaller HA angle than 68*. All I found on your websites was 68*. Do you have full suspensions frames with a lower angle than 68*?
    Code:
    Hello Ibo,
    
    Our smaller HA angle is 68* for full suspensions frame.
    And only FM288 has front fork travle of more than 140mm and HA angle 68*.
    Is ok for you?
    I figured that is standard. If you want more angle, you can use angleset, or off spec size rear shock, longer forks.

    this guy describes how he did that with the schock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySAKcRrsOXI&t=208s
    it seems to me its just too much of a hassle, really.
    the frames are getting better and better, but still, I'll wait for some updated enduro geometry chinese carbon frames - I'm pretty sure they are going to start produce those very soon.

    plus - this guy's yt channel has nazi SS insignia as an avatar. is he insane? I really cannot fathom any irony, joke, or even remotely humoristic about that. that's just plain wrong...

  7. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashas View Post
    it seems to me its just too much of a hassle, really.
    the frames are getting better and better, but still, I'll wait for some updated enduro geometry chinese carbon frames - I'm pretty sure they are going to start produce those very soon.

    plus - this guy's yt channel has nazi SS insignia as an avatar. is he insane? I really cannot fathom any irony, joke, or even remotely humoristic about that. that's just plain wrong...
    hahaha i noticed that too...he seems to not be that intelligent, but he did make a point. smaller size shock, slacker head angle

    no idea how carbon frame manufacturing in china is regulated, warranted and permitted. You could be right

  8. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    hahaha i noticed that too...he seems to not be that intelligent, but he did make a point. smaller size shock, slacker head angle

    no idea how carbon frame manufacturing in china is regulated, warranted and permitted. You could be right
    I really can not understand why they didn't already start to produce slacker, lower, and longer frames.

    so about shorter E2E - what does that do actually? not only for slacker HA, but for kimenatics, BB height and so on... sorry for n00bness... (plus - for how much does it slacken the HA?)

  9. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashas View Post
    I really can not understand why they didn't already start to produce slacker, lower, and longer frames.

    so about shorter E2E - what does that do actually? not only for slacker HA, but for kimenatics, BB height and so on... sorry for n00bness... (plus - for how much does it slacken the HA?)
    theres def people here that can answer as professionally as trumps lawyers, but from my imagination, the BB would come lower, travel of the frame would be shortened, so you bottom out sooner. it would angle the bike better for downhill and worse for climbing. think about it - you got two moving triangles connected at one of their vertices (near BB).

    look at the image i attached, imagine the shock shorter. it would pul the back wheel into the frame, a little bit up, wont it
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails China Carbon AM Duallies-2017-intense-tracer-factory-build.jpg  


  10. #660
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    My 2.5 cents,

    I think there is too much angst over the Chinese frame geometries. The 68 degrees is not horrible for the frame and general usage. There are options that work well to get to 66 degrees if you like. Some here have done that and are happy with the new handling. In my case, I did not notice so much a difference and enjoy the ride either way. I used a CC angleset that was 1.5 degrees and because the adjustable cup is on the bottom, it pushed my forks out another 1/2" which put me about 2 degrees slacker in total.

    Bottom line, I think most that have actually bought/ridden the FM336/S7 frames are happy with them and there is room for tuning if you want. I am thrilled with mine.

    Joel

  11. #661
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    Yep loving mine

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  12. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_l View Post
    My 2.5 cents,

    ...
    Bottom line, I think most that have actually bought/ridden the FM336/S7 frames are happy with them and there is room for tuning if you want. I am thrilled with mine.

    Joel
    Quote Originally Posted by vwsurfbum View Post
    Yep loving mine

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    I demand side profile pictures guys (your bikes, not you)

  13. #663
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    My bike is on this page

    China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    I demand side profile pictures guys (your bikes, not you)

  14. #664
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    here is my bike. The frame came with a rockshox monarch XX. Built the frame up with Truvativ holzfeller 50mm stem, holzfeller handlebars, along with a rockshox revelation rct3 27.5. The wheels are mavic crossride 27.5, 12x142 rear. Had to buy a xd driver for the wheel. The drivetrain is sram gx 1x11 components. The brakes are sram level disc brakes.


    China Carbon AM Duallies-img_20170217_113741.jpgChina Carbon AM Duallies-img_20170217_113824.jpg
    Last edited by alucke; 02-17-2017 at 08:59 AM.

  15. #665
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    nice, ill be getting my frame hopefully tmr, ill be looking at both of your builds...

    is it me or just mountain bikes look better muddy and dirty?

  16. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    theres def people here that can answer as professionally as trumps lawyers, but from my imagination, the BB would come lower, travel of the frame would be shortened, so you bottom out sooner. it would angle the bike better for downhill and worse for climbing. think about it - you got two moving triangles connected at one of their vertices (near BB).

    look at the image i attached, imagine the shock shorter. it would pul the back wheel into the frame, a little bit up, wont it
    ok, I understand, thank you.
    what kind of linkage does chinese frames use? looks like VPP to me. that's not half bad if true.

  17. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_l View Post
    My 2.5 cents,

    I think there is too much angst over the Chinese frame geometries. The 68 degrees is not horrible for the frame and general usage. There are options that work well to get to 66 degrees if you like. Some here have done that and are happy with the new handling. In my case, I did not notice so much a difference and enjoy the ride either way. I used a CC angleset that was 1.5 degrees and because the adjustable cup is on the bottom, it pushed my forks out another 1/2" which put me about 2 degrees slacker in total.

    Bottom line, I think most that have actually bought/ridden the FM336/S7 frames are happy with them and there is room for tuning if you want. I am thrilled with mine.

    Joel
    the thing is I got used to riding 170mm forks (160-165 rear travel) on all my bikes for a decade now, and I want to continues doing so, so these frames can't support that. or can they?

    second, I currently ride Capra with Lyrik 170 which is now lower than 64.5° HA (MBR states its as low as 64.1°). plus the numbers say that BB height for Capra is 350 - from my experience it is waaaay lower when riding. I like that a lot. best bike I ever had.

    the thing I really want is actually Capra frame with longer TT, more reach, somewhere around Strive Pro sizing - but would prefer 77-78° seat angle. now that would make Capra the ultimate bike...

  18. #668
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    ordered myself a pair of offset bushings, combined with the slackerizer headset, should slacken it out nicely! been riding a lot of dh/enduro stuff recently so looking for some slackness, currently at 66.5 should drop me another degree to 65.5

    will post my findings.

  19. #669
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    Hi,

    Seems you are looking for a different bike than what the FM336/S7s are. With these frames, I think the max you will get out of the read is 150mm. The front maybe a bit more, but then I would be cautious about the load change on the head tube if you push the forks out too much past 150mm. I'm at 155mm, someone else is at 160mm and seems OK. Every increment changes the loading. Just pushing the forks out makes the HA slacker but also the seat tube.

    Seems you are looking more for a DH bike which these frames are not. Not sure what Chinese company is making a long travel DH bike.

    The Capra looks interesting, have you tried a longer stem? Won't change the seat tube angle but will get you more reach. Depending on how you like the handling now, longer reach could be a don't care, a plus, or a minus.

    Personally I find a lot of these geometry changes in the don't care category.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashas View Post
    the thing is I got used to riding 170mm forks (160-165 rear travel) on all my bikes for a decade now, and I want to continues doing so, so these frames can't support that. or can they?

    second, I currently ride Capra with Lyrik 170 which is now lower than 64.5° HA (MBR states its as low as 64.1°). plus the numbers say that BB height for Capra is 350 - from my experience it is waaaay lower when riding. I like that a lot. best bike I ever had.

    the thing I really want is actually Capra frame with longer TT, more reach, somewhere around Strive Pro sizing - but would prefer 77-78° seat angle. now that would make Capra the ultimate bike...

  20. #670
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    Im currently 160 on front, no issues. but agree with Joel, I think anymore would be pushing it, these are really trail bikes rather than full on enduro or dh bikes.

  21. #671
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    too bad they don't make the frames I'd be into. I think they would really make a lot of money if they enter Enduro segment, especially if they would experiment with new direction geometry wise. I really think longer and slacker bikes are going to become standard. that geo really improves riding experience and is better for higher speed, more steep stuff.

    well, going through the posts here it seems these frames would makes for a perfect 110-120mm back travel, 130 front travel trail bikes. don't know what the default travel is for 336/s7 frames. what is the BB height for 336/s7? plus, is that VPP linkage?

    I already have 170-165 bike, and don't need another, so that smaler travel bike would be something to think about, for those all day all mountain days. I'd defo go for that bike.

  22. #672
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    My bike is set up with 150mm travel front and back ( front is pushed out a bit because of the angleset headset ),so actually thinking of it, I'm closer to 163mm unloaded.

    The bikes do have a VPP and it works well. My bikes BB height unloaded is 355mm to crank center.

    Joel

  23. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_l View Post
    My bike is set up with 150mm travel front and back ( front is pushed out a bit because of the angleset headset ),so actually thinking of it, I'm closer to 163mm unloaded.

    The bikes do have a VPP and it works well. My bikes BB height unloaded is 355mm to crank center.

    Joel
    thanx for the info.
    is 150 travel default travel of the frame? and BB height is measured after angleset, right?

  24. #674
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    150mm is the default, for the rear that is using a 200x57mm shock. I think some have used 200x50mm, less travel slacker front.

    the 355mm BB height is with the angleset installed.

    Joel

    Quote Originally Posted by ashas View Post
    thanx for the info.
    is 150 travel default travel of the frame? and BB height is measured after angleset, right?

  25. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel_l View Post
    Seems you are looking more for a DH bike which these frames are not. Not sure what Chinese company is making a long travel DH bike.

    Personally I find a lot of these geometry changes in the don't care category.
    I agree with this. These are AM bikes for getting up and down a mountain not DH/FR/Enduro slaying machines where all the trails are lift assisted. The geo is what it is and follows a tried and true formula that might be a bit older but we know works. Not designed to be groundbreaking in any technology or the longest, lowest, slackest, DH gnar sled.

    At most, I'd say these bikes are "North Shore bikes" aggressive enough HTA and nice pedaling platform that you can actually go uphill but slack and playful enough on the downhill that you can still get down a decently gnarly trail with some tech skill. eg. the same class as a Rocky Altitude, Kona Heihei, Process 134, or Mach 4 (just barely reaching/touching the enduro category).

    With all that said, I have also taken this bike down some flowy blue trails at Whistler bike park. It doesn't inspire that much confidence compared to a real DH rental bike (eg. a Rocky Maiden that's designed with coil shock, 4 bar linkage, slack 63 degree HTA, etc.) where I just point it in a direction and ride it out but I was still able to get down the trails on this thing and have fun. I'd probably want to slacken the HTA up a bit to 66 or 66.5 degrees but the 68 HTA was fine as long as you know the limits of the bike and aren't trying to do crazy things like Schleyer or Canadian Open DH.

  26. #676
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    agree with tier. except id argue that theres people in this thread who have successfully pushed their builds into enduro territory. but dont be buying it for DH

  27. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by panzer103 View Post
    Imust Carbon 27 5 Full Suspension MTB Frame XP07 M Size BSA Rear 12x148mm | eBay
    This frame looks awesome! I would sport the crap out of it.
    Hi ppl, anyone have luck on this frame,care to share more info?
    2016 Ragley Mmmbop 27.5

  28. #678
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    It's funny, my first full suspension bike was a Specialized Enduro Expert I bought new in 2004. It had 100mm rear and about 127mm in the front and a you could select a 70.5 degree HA with a 13.2" BB height or 69.5 degree HA with a 12.8" BB height by flipping a link. That was an enduro bike back then. Today, the FM336/S7 is in cross over territory from trail to AM with an HA of 68 and travel of 150mm F&R.

    I still remember my first "mountain" was a Fuji Suncrest all steel bike 18 speed.

    I guess the bottom line is don't get so wrapped up on labels and whats trendy this week ( I think a lot of that crap is to generate new bike sales ). Get what you like and have fun with it.

    Joel

    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    agree with tier. except id argue that theres people in this thread who have successfully pushed their builds into enduro territory. but dont be buying it for DH

  29. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbike View Post
    Hi ppl, anyone have luck on this frame,care to share more info?
    That's going to crack at the seat tube, right above the pivot bolt. Unless it's REALLY thick, overbuilt carbon.

  30. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    I demand side profile pictures guys (your bikes, not you)
    and one of me side on

  31. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by vwsurfbum View Post
    and one of me side on
    lol your back "light"

    is that 26" wheels? and 150mm travel fork?

  32. #682
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    I just ordered Scott's new 100mm travel cross country racing frameset and noticed that its head angle is the same as this "all mountain" bike. This bike was intriguing during the lead up, disappointing once it was released, and now a flat out joke a year later. Its geometry is wack, the price isn't that good, and people are having bearing problems. The market is flooded with barely used Bronsons and the like that you can buy for the same money as building up one of these.
    Keep the Country country.

  33. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    The market is flooded with barely used Bronsons and the like that you can buy for the same money as building up one of these.
    just went thru pinkbike buy/sell canadian section. cheapest bronsons i found were 2015 $3,250, $3,500 and upward of $4k. So i dont know. How much do you think one of these builds is?

  34. #684
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    New Bronsons start at $3000. Perhaps middle of winter the used market isn't as busy but come riding season it shouldn't be hard to find a great used bike for $2000-$3000. It wasn't from May to October last year. That's what I'd guess people are spending on these Chinese "AM" bikes. It's almost beside the point though. This bike won't provide the ride experience "AM" promises. The segment is mature enough that your choices are no longer leading brands like Santa Cruz or hoping a Chinese immitation can be made to work. There are so many great bikes from budget oriented brands like Norco and Kona* too. When this frame was announced I was suspicious the manufacturer could get geometry and durability in line with what this segment requires and I was proven right.

    *I just got a Precept 150 as a beater to keep in Hawaii and it feels like a heavier version of my Bronson. Suggested retail is $2100. My Colorado shop will be selling our demos at the end of this summer for $1400.
    Keep the Country country.

  35. #685
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    meh, I only needed the frame. For the money, I could get a couple of year old Alu bike (with even more dated geo), or I was able to buy this, brand new Carbon frame (slightly dated geo, but for the price of a angle headset and offset bushings I could adjust), I thought its worth a shot, loving it so far, I had a Trance 650b before this, and the Ican rides better, I ride everything from all mountain ride through to DH on it, I see many big brand carbon frames dying within a few years, so I expect this will be the same, the difference is the outlay is a lot smaller so I can move on to something else.

  36. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    lol your back "light"

    is that 26" wheels? and 150mm travel fork?
    Cheers
    650b and 160mm pike

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  37. #687
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    I agree with D@Z build quality is very similar to the Santa Cruz and I must say I'm enjoying not having to pay the massive premium for the use of the VPP.
    Great bike, well worth the money and the chance to prove how good it actually is.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  38. #688
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    Do most here have the ICAN frame or are there others? So far I have one season on mine, a couple of tumbles, and no damage. I've only heard of one separation at the lower pivot but don't know if that was ICAN or some one else. I ended up paining mine with Lacquer because it shows cracks well.

    How long have some of you had yours? Not sure how long the S7/FM336 has been out.

    Joel

    Quote Originally Posted by vwsurfbum View Post
    I agree with D@Z build quality is very similar to the Santa Cruz and I must say I'm enjoying not having to pay the massive premium for the use of the VPP.
    Great bike, well worth the money and the chance to prove how good it actually is.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  39. #689
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    Ive stacked mine a few times so far, still holding up ok lol. I have had mine since around November

  40. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@z View Post
    Ive stacked mine a few times so far, still holding up ok lol. I have had mine since around November
    side view pic please

  41. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by SO_DOGE View Post
    side view pic please
    looks like the rest posted on here!

  42. #692
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    Anyone got any more info on the P9 advertised on the front of iCanBike's page? Look's quite heavy at 2.6kg but fairly sturdy.

    I'm thinking the CS-FS27 is still a better option for XC. Unless anyone can recommend anything else for a 650B XC FS bike trying to get under 10KG.

  43. #693
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    http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/27_5ER_frame/338.html

    I think it is a transition ? A sub 10kg full suspension MTB, that's going to be near on impossible? It would need to be a soft tail short travel xc machines not something like that


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  44. #694
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    this new 2017 Enduro Frame P9 look great, and the numbers are now on par with the most big brands bikes out there. nice!

  45. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashas View Post
    this new 2017 Enduro Frame P9 look great, and the numbers are now on par with the most big brands bikes out there. nice!
    Only doubt I have is on the chainstay lenght which appears a bit long at 452mm.
    Except this they made finally a frame with modern geometries and threaded rear hanger.

    Let's see if will be available.

  46. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by christianr View Post
    Only doubt I have is on the chainstay lenght which appears a bit long at 452mm.
    Except this they made finally a frame with modern geometries and threaded rear hanger.

    Let's see if will be available.
    yeah, didn't look at chainstay, was concentrated on HA, SA and reach. bit long, yes, but I know some people will prefer that.

    would love to try this frame though...

  47. #697
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    That Ican P9 looks like its got some serious potential, especially that weight, at 2400grams!!? I wish they had designed it with a 31.6 post size at least though.

  48. #698
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    Also take into account that those numbers are based on having a 180mm fork fitted (571mm axle to crown) so for most people it'll be running a little lower / steeper

  49. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weedling View Post
    Also take into account that those numbers are based on having a 180mm fork fitted (571mm axle to crown) so for most people it'll be running a little lower / steeper
    yes, true, was confused when I realized that as well.
    a bit disbalanced having 150mm in the back and 180 front...

  50. #700
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    Frame price is 730$ + shipment.

    I've asked for the CADs sheets so I can understand better the whole geometry.

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