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  1. #1
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    Chilcotin complement bike decision.

    I've got a pretty nice work related bonus coming in the next month or two and I've got the green light to put $5000 of it to a new bike.

    I currently ride a Knolly Chilcotin as my one bike and really love it especially when the going gets extra chunky or droppy or steep. It works OK on the faster, smoother stuff too but obviously that's not its strength.

    I want to keep the Chili but I'd like to add a new bike for the faster smoother local trails that I ride quite often in the AM before work and for trips to PC and Sun Valley where fast, buff, and swoppy are the order of the day.

    Let's assume I'm going to limit my choices to carbon. I've tested quite a few bikes and there's something that just feels right about a good carbon frame... Light, stiff, yet still possessing a unique damped quality. Besides, it's the wave of the future and I'm a lemming.

    There's two bikes each in three slightly different genres, if you will, that I have "narrowed" it down to (when you've ridden as many bikes as I have over the last 6 months getting the pool down to six was quite an accomplishment).... and there's still 4-5 bikes I loved that it kills me to leave off my final six. But you gotta start reducing somewhere, right.

    The first two I love because of how they ride quite fast and light on smoother trails yet still have the ability to transfer over into more Trail/AM territory. Their price point is really good for carbon but at 140mm travel they start to overlap into Chili territory a bit as far as function.

    1) Devinci Troy Carbon
    2) Norco Sight Carbon

    Group two are faster (presumably) more XC slanted 29ers with some pretty good cross over ability into the trail category. I like the way a 29er really pics up speed on rolling terrain with seemingly little pedal input but am a bit put off by the lazier steering and tall stack heights sometimes. These two seem to be the exception in this regard to some extent along witht he Jet 9 RDO.

    1) Ibis Ripley
    2) Turner Czar

    Group three are shorter travel 27.5" bikes in the 120-130 range that rip the XC yet still feel very capable on some chunkier stuff (One does not exist and I'm obviously making some huge assumptions here, but I'm hoping for a carbon shorter travel version of the Warden maybe next year).

    1) Santa Cruz 5010c
    2) Knolly "Fugitive"

    I think my preferences lean towards these last two (light, flickable, fast, with some of the momentum carrying effects of the bigger wheels) more 26er like in the tighter, twisty, flow trail type stuff yet still able to handle some rowdiness and the occasional enduro race. However neither will fit my price range as well as the first two. And of course, I have no idea whether Knolly will even produce a bike like the Fugitive and if so how long I'd have to wait for it. My guess is a year or two. Also, it would be really tough to get either of the 29ers for $5000 so some smart shopping, going slightley used, or further saving would be required it I went that way.

    I like all kinds of trails and am an older, but still fit, reasonably advanced rider who will enter this bike in an enduro race once in a while when the course favors it.

    Thoughts? I'm sure many of you have read some of my reviews and opinions on various threads over the past couple months but could really use some help narrowing it down a bit further. Feel free to bring up other options, but believe me, I've really considered most every bike out there.
    Last edited by KRob; 02-03-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Being you like the feel of Knollys 4x AND the fact that the Sight all but slaughtered the troy in recent reviews, the choice is quite obvious, or should be for us lurkers but you have been on both so...

  3. #3
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    If you are like me the 29 will be nice at first, but then you will be back on the Chili after a few months. Personally I would lean towards the 5010c or Norco. Pushed even farther I would go 5010c because it is a great compliment to the bigger bike you already have. If you go for something 140 like the Norco I doubt the Chili will see much use long term. The 5010c adds just enough diversity to your stable where it would make sense.

    If you go 29, go Ripley. There is a lot of flexibility built into that bike and for the $40 cost of a Pike air shaft rod you could have a Jekyll and Hide bike. 140 for the rougher days and 120 for the buff trails adding even more flexibility. With the Czar you end up with no mans land between the two bikes. If you said you were going to enter a few XC races then Czar all the way.

    BTW I would love to hear the bikes you eliminated...

  4. #4
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    Kent, I'd bet a lot of money no carbon knolly's available to the public until 2016 at the earliest. Maybe a 2015 proto for ibike but not production. Still tough but if youre thinking soon I'd be thinking Troy, Ripley or Czar.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    Being you like the feel of Knollys 4x AND the fact that the Sight all but slaughtered the troy in recent reviews, the choice is quite obvious, or should be for us lurkers but you have been on both so...
    Well "slaughtered" may be stretching it a bit. After my rides on both of these I'd question any review/comparo that places these two very far apart. I think with a 150 Pike or Float34 they are very comparable. It would come down to better build spec, price, and availabity between these two if I decided to go with a bike in this first grouping.

    As far as HL/4xFour suspension design, I do prefer it for most all-around riding but especially for uber chunk. However, for the purposes of this bike I do want a bike that feels snappy and will really respond to hard standing sprints. I thought the Troy was a bit better in this regard than the Sight, but I've seen reviews that got the exact opposite impression. They're both pretty good in this regard..... A short travel dw link or VPP would be even a bit better.
    Last edited by KRob; 02-04-2014 at 10:14 AM.
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    The norco looks sweet. But if I had $5000 burning a hole in my pocket I would be tempted to keep my chilcotin nice and beefy and build up a super light endorphin. If you don't have to have top of the line everything and did your own build you could maybe have an endorphin with carbon wheels in your price range.

    I know they are similar bikes, but can you imagine how sweet it would be to rip around on a 23/24 pound endorphin with carbon wheels and a 140 fork.

    Dang, now I want one to go with my Chilcotin.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    If you are like me the 29 will be nice at first, but then you will be back on the Chili after a few months. Personally I would lean towards the 5010c or Norco. Pushed even farther I would go 5010c because it is a great compliment to the bigger bike you already have. If you go for something 140 like the Norco I doubt the Chili will see much use long term. The 5010c adds just enough diversity to your stable where it would make sense.

    If you go 29, go Ripley. There is a lot of flexibility built into that bike and for the $40 cost of a Pike air shaft rod you could have a Jekyll and Hide bike. 140 for the rougher days and 120 for the buff trails adding even more flexibility. With the Czar you end up with no mans land between the two bikes. If you said you were going to enter a few XC races then Czar all the way.

    BTW I would love to hear the bikes you eliminated...
    I agree on the 140 bikes pushing into the Knolly territory and suspect that for all but that 5% I'd opt for the light faster 27.5" bike if I had it. I guess if I went that way I could push the Chili further into the DH/FR territory with a Avy'd coil shock and 180 fork, dual ply tires etc... but then it's only really good for shuttle days and parks (two things I have darn little of where I live).

    I suspect you may be right on the 29er thing, but I did like both of these twenty niners for the types of trails I'd be using this bike for. If I went Czar or Ripley I'd definitely go with a 120 fork and do a few things to make them more suitable for rowdy XC/trail with tires, stem, bars, maybe a lowered Pike as you suggest, etc.
    Last edited by KRob; 02-04-2014 at 10:17 AM.
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    Kent: Tough choices. I'm always a little so-so on 29ers, moreso as the travel gets higher. I do like a nice short-travel or hardtail 29er. I'd be pretty tempted by the Czar, but suspect here in Phoenix it would be easily overwhelmed (or I'd be tempted to ride in inappropriately).

    If it were me, I'd pick the 5010-C. But then, it's been my impression that you're lukewarm on the Bronson platform. I LOVE my Bronson-C and view the 5010 as a shorter-travel, more trailbike-oriented platform, but a similar ride.

    I've read many of your posts in this regard and I THINK I understand where you're going. I'd ditch your first two choices completely as too much potential overlap. My take would be down to the Czar or the 5010, but the winner is unclear.

  9. #9
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    Based on your choices - Carbon Troy setup 140/140. Gives you a fast light bike and leaves the Chili something to do.

    With carte blanche - Mach 6 + 160mm fork. Add some carbon wheels when $$ allow and the M6 will cover most of your bases and you have the Chili for when you want to bash around.
    Safe riding,

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  10. #10
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    Im no longer a fan of SC but for a lighter snappy trail bike I would go 5010 over a troy if it were between the 2.


    Edit: My feelings for SC could change if they make a 27.5 Nomad with modern geo and a updated/revamped VPP!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I've got a pretty nice work related bonus coming in the next month or two and I've got the green light to put $5000 of it to a new bike.

    I currently ride a Knolly Chilcotin as my one bike and really love it especially when the going gets extra chunky or droppy or steep. It works OK on the faster, smoother stuff too but obviously that's not its strength.

    I want to keep the Chili but I'd like to add a new bike for the faster smoother local trails that I ride quite often in the AM before work and for trips to PC and Sun Valley where fast, buff, and swoppy are the order of the day.

    Let's assume I'm going to limit my choices to carbon. I've tested quite a few bikes and there's something that just feels right about a good carbon frame... Light, stiff, yet still possessing a unique damped quality. Besides, it's the wave of the future and I'm a lemming.

    There's two bikes each in three slightly different genres, if you will, that I have "narrowed" it down to (when you've ridden as many bikes as I have over the last 6 months getting the pool down to six was quite an accomplishment).... and there's still 4-5 bikes I loved that it kills me to leave off my final six. But you gotta start reducing somewhere, right.

    The first two I love because of how they ride quite fast and light on smoother trails yet still have the ability to transfer over into more Trail/AM territory. Their price point is really good for carbon but at 140mm travel they start to overlap into Chili territory a bit as far as function.

    1) Devinci Troy Carbon
    2) Norco Sight Carbon

    Group two are faster (presumably) more XC slanted 29ers with some pretty good cross over ability into the trail category. I like the way a 29er really pics up speed on rolling terrain with seemingly little pedal input but am a bit put off by the lazier steering and tall stack heights sometimes. These two seem to be the exception in this regard to some extent along witht he Jet 9 RDO.

    1) Ibis Ripley
    2) Turner Czar

    Group three are shorter travel 27.5" bikes in the 120-130 range that rip the XC yet still feel very capable on some chunkier stuff (One does not exist and I'm obviously making some huge assumptions here, but I'm hoping for a carbon shorter travel version of the Warden maybe next year).

    1) Santa Cruz 5010c
    2) Knolly "Fugitive"

    I think my preferences lean towards these last two (light, flickable, fast, with some of the momentum carrying effects of the bigger wheels) more 26er like in the tighter, twisty, flow trail type stuff yet still able to handle some rowdiness and the occasional enduro race. However neither will fit my price range as well as the first two. And of course, I have no idea whether Knolly will even produce a bike like the Fugitive and if so how long I'd have to wait for it. My guess is a year or two. Also, it would be really tough to get either of the 29ers for $5000 so some smart shopping, going slightley used, or further saving would be required it I went that way.

    I like all kinds of trails and am an older, but still fit, reasonably advanced rider who will enter this bike in an enduro race once in a while when the course favors it.

    Thoughts? I'm sure many of you have read some of my reviews and opinions on various threads over the past couple months but could really use some help narrowing it down a bit further. Feel free to bring up other options, but believe me, I've really considered most every bike out there.
    Norco Sight c as others echoed. Fun, snappy, pedally, but still supple to chatter kind of rig based on my hour-long test I had with it last week. If wanting to keep it more XC/trail go with Revalation as specced. If more aggro trail, go Pike down to 140 for great pedalling/descending geometry with use of 26"/150 air spring that only costs $38 and looks easy to install. Run 1x10 or 1x11 if funds there for 26-27lb little trail rippa! No 5010c on list? A local shop worker who has that as his primary trail rig has been taking it on big backcountry trail rides with big elevation changes (at least 1000ft/mile) and he said it does fine while descending. Only weak point is 32mm fork when gets really steep and rough on trail at times. Enter Pike 140!
    Ride On!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Kent: Tough choices. I'm always a little so-so on 29ers, moreso as the travel gets higher. I do like a nice short-travel or hardtail 29er. I'd be pretty tempted by the Czar, but suspect here in Phoenix it would be easily overwhelmed (or I'd be tempted to ride in inappropriately).

    If it were me, I'd pick the 5010-C. But then, it's been my impression that you're lukewarm on the Bronson platform. I LOVE my Bronson-C and view the 5010 as a shorter-travel, more trailbike-oriented platform, but a similar ride.

    I've read many of your posts in this regard and I THINK I understand where you're going. I'd ditch your first two choices completely as too much potential overlap. My take would be down to the Czar or the 5010, but the winner is unclear.
    This! I keep coming back to 5010c for snappy trail bike counter for my heavier, stouter build AM rig (Rune). For me, it's the grease ports on pivots for wet/damp PacNW conditions, 5lb frame, great pedalling platform, stout carbon lay up throughout the frame (not partial like Norco, Troy) with great small trail bike geometry, 5yr warranty (no bike of mine has lasted that long). Love the low BB. HA could be a bit slacker, but guys who I know ride one said it descends trail nicely even with 68 front. I wouldn't ride in really fast, rough, choppy conditions though. Enter AM bike for that.
    Ride On!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    BTW I would love to hear the bikes you eliminated...
    There's a couple aluminum bikes I really liked that I cut off the list just for being aluminum that fit what I'm looking for otherwise: RM Thunderbolt and Turner Flux.

    There's a three or four 140-150mm 27.5 bikes I had to eliminate because they were too much into the Chili territory like the Warden, Burner, Bronson, and Mach 6.

    The Ibis HDR is 130mm so theoretically in the category I'm shopping, but if felt a bit heavier than the 5010 and doesn't feel as dialed geometry wise. Nice bike. Just didn't quite make my final 6.

    With regards to the Mach 6 I may be cutting off my nose to spite my face because that is the bike out of all of them that I liked the most, and if I could bring myself to give up my Chili that's the bike I'd get.
    Last edited by KRob; 02-05-2014 at 04:27 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    With regards to the Mach 6 I may be cutting off my nose to spite my face because that is the bike out of all of them that I liked the most, and if I could bring myself to give up my Chili that's the bike I'd get.
    Problem is, that the M6 may be able to cover XC/trail and AM ripper duties, thus no need for two bikes. I am same boat as you as you know and struggling with this a bit since I priced up my ideal shorter travel trail bike to complement AM rig and couldn't come in <$5k (my max budget as well) and came to conclusion that even on XC trails I still descend them like a man on a terror, just pedal harder for the speed. The M6 could very well these two bikes. I priced out an M6 complete using all my workable parts from AM rig and came in at $4600 with new fork, wheelset/tires, BB. Everything would be take-off from AM bike. Only probem with M6 for me is short reach and slacker STA with HA how it is with bigger wheels and all. I like low, somewhat slack, but forward attack position as well. My SB66 w/160 fork had similar geometry as M6 and found I had to drop the fork whenever seated climbing to keep the front end down even with saddle pushed all the way forward and often descended with fork lowered for a lowered, forward more attack position on trail.
    Ride On!

  15. #15
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    That's just it, c'mon KRob, you love the Chilco, the Warden will pedal better/faster, can be built to +~27lbs and be 95% as capable in the gnar as the Chilco. Get the Warden as a 1 bike Chilco replacement and use the extra money for a long "dream" epic journey! CARPE DIEM!!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    That's just it, c'mon KRob, you love the Chilco, the Warden will pedal better/faster, can be built to +~27lbs and be 95% as capable in the gnar as the Chilco. Get the Warden as a 1 bike Chilco replacement and use the extra money for a long "dream" epic journey! CARPE DIEM!!!
    Like this! I keep coming back to Warden geometry for top contender for ideal trail/AM bike. On paper out of all the bikes out there the geometry specs and sizing is totally dialed for me, whereas everything else seems off a bit. Great reach/ETT, WB, SO, BB, STA/HTA. It's dialed, now I just need to find a way to ride one to compare to all the other 650b offerings.
    Ride On!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Kent: Tough choices. I'm always a little so-so on 29ers, moreso as the travel gets higher. I do like a nice short-travel or hardtail 29er. I'd be pretty tempted by the Czar, but suspect here in Phoenix it would be easily overwhelmed (or I'd be tempted to ride in inappropriately).

    If it were me, I'd pick the 5010-C. But then, it's been my impression that you're lukewarm on the Bronson platform. I LOVE my Bronson-C and view the 5010 as a shorter-travel, more trailbike-oriented platform, but a similar ride.

    I've read many of your posts in this regard and I THINK I understand where you're going. I'd ditch your first two choices completely as too much potential overlap. My take would be down to the Czar or the 5010, but the winner is unclear.

    Yes, I think you have it pegged. The 5010c and Czar are probably top of the list with the 5010 edging it out slightly. I'm only luke warm on the Bronson because there's others in its class I like better. I really liked the 5010 but is it because it's really the only one exactly in its class right now? I don't think so. Like you said, it really ticks all the right boxes.

    You don't think the the Czar would suit Phoenix? Seems like it would be the perfect partner for the BCT or a rip around T100, the McDowells, DC, or even Hawes or Usery Pass.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Problem is, that the M6 may be able to cover XC/trail and AM ripper duties, thus no need for two bikes. I am same boat as you as you know
    Right. If I could come to terms with that, the M6 with 160 Pike and carbon wheels might just be the bee's knees. Don't think I haven't worked that idea over in my mind a few times.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Like this! I keep coming back to Warden geometry for top contender for ideal trail/AM bike. On paper out of all the bikes out there the geometry specs and sizing is totally dialed for me, whereas everything else seems off a bit. Great reach/ETT, WB, SO, BB, STA/HTA. It's dialed, now I just need to find a way to ride one to compare to all the other 650b offerings.
    Bzzzzt. Not carbon.

    Actually that's the one bike I might still consider in alloy if I decided to go with a middle weight one bike solution. .... IF I felt it fit me as well as the numbers suggest for you. Me test ride left me feeling I'm a bit between sizes with the Warden. I think with he right parts mix I could get it feeling comfy and light but I doubt there'd be much left over for any dream vacation by time I got the carbon wheels and XX1 and to get it down to 26-27 lbs.

    I really do love those 5% trails though and would end up hankering for something to fill hat niche.

    Speaking of dream vacation, that's the other option. I could take that $5k and spend two or three weeks in Europe with the Chili (and my wife of course)..
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    Kent, I'd bet a lot of money no carbon knolly's available to the public until 2016 at the earliest. Maybe a 2015 proto for ibike but not production. Still tough but if youre thinking soon I'd be thinking Troy, Ripley or Czar.
    Yes, I suspect you are correct....maybe that bike should be a discussion for my next new bike in 2016.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    . But if I had $5000 burning a hole in my pocket I would be tempted to keep my chilcotin nice and beefy and build up a super light endorphin. If you don't have to have top of the line everything and did your own build you could maybe have an endorphin with carbon wheels in your price range.

    I know they are similar bikes, but can you imagine how sweet it would be to rip around on a 23/24 pound endorphin with carbon wheels and a 140 fork.

    Dang, now I want one to go with my Chilcotin.
    That would be cool, and maybe that would fit my needs, but I'm really looking for something with the bigger wheel and carbon this time and something a little different I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    You don't think the the Czar would suit Phoenix? Seems like it would be the perfect partner for the BCT or a rip around T100, the McDowells, DC, or even Hawes or Usery Pass.
    Yeah, man, it probably would. For my group, we can't go to the T100 area without riding tech. And if we go to east Mesa, we typically bypass Hawes and hit Pass Mountain. Just trying to be practical.

    I imagine the Czar with a 120 fork would be tits, though.

    My opinion is you really hit the nail on the head initially. Don't be tempted by the elusive one-bike stable. You already have a bike that you love, that destroys chunk and can even be used as the odd shuttle monkey.

    Stay focused on a companion/complementary bike with as little overlap as possible. Or, heck, go three bikes (my favorite number) and add a 29er SS hard tail to the mix!!

    I think the 5010C is it, but the Czar would be mighty tempting.

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    How "Buff" are these trails? If they really flow; then I would look at a carbon 29 hardtail. FS have improved by leaps and bounds over the last 10 years but nothing beats a light hardtail on smooth trails. If they are more xc oriented; then the Santa Cruz 5010 would be the one. The VPP really does pedal the best. Just my option.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Yeah, man, it probably would. For my group, we can't go to the T100 area without riding tech. And if we go to east Mesa, we typically bypass Hawes and hit Pass Mountain. Just trying to be practical.
    You know, I have to admit, even after typing that response I thought: "if I had that much awesome chunk riding in my back yard, I'd probably rarely if ever hit those trails I mentioned. You guys truly have it good.

    Whereas, the three best trails that I hit most often scream for a bike like the Czar or Ripley or 5010.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Right. If I could come to terms with that, the M6 with 160 Pike and carbon wheels might just be the bee's knees. Don't think I haven't worked that idea over in my mind a few times.
    I'm going to be keeping my old 6" travel FS bike when my new 6" travel FS bike shows up. They are closer to each other than a light M6 would be to your Chili. They will still be different enough to each have their moment to shine depending on the ride at hand.

    You could build up the M6 on the light-side for a finesse trail/AM bike and keep the Chili when you need a sledge hammer and you want to be able to shrug off a dent from a sharp rock without shedding tears.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm going to be keeping my old 6" travel FS bike when my new 6" travel FS bike shows up. They are closer to each other than a light M6 would be to your Chili. They will still be different enough to each have their moment to shine depending on the ride at hand.

    You could build up the M6 on the light-side for a finesse trail/AM bike and keep the Chili when you need a sledge hammer and you want to be able to shrug off a dent from a sharp rock without shedding tears.
    Your current 6" bike is an HD correct? Yeah that seems like a lot of overlap. Nice having two very similar bikes if most of your trails are pretty well matched to that type of bike (and admittedly these cover a huge swath of trail types) if for no other reason than to have a spare when one's down or you have a friend in town that needs a loaner, etc.

    I suspect those won't be your only two bikes though, right?
    Last edited by KRob; 02-06-2014 at 12:44 AM.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Your current 6" bike is an HDR, correct? Yeah that seems like a lot of overlap. Nice having two very similar bikes if most of your trails are pretty well matched to that type of bike (and admittedly these cover a huge swath of trail types) if for no other reason than to have a spare when one's down or you have a friend in town that needs a loaner, etc.

    I suspect those won't be your only two bikes though, right?
    My other bike is a SC Nomad with a Float 36 and a burly build. It's entering year 6 under my butt and going strong. I've used it for buff XC riding and admittedly it's overkill, but even that bike, which would be considered a dated design by many, still ripped.

    One of the new breed of 650B AM bikes would be even more capable on smoother trails and still handle the AM stuff up the limits of their tires/wheels.

    The two 6" bikes will be my only two "trail bikes". I have a fatbike and a rigid 29er bikepacking bike, but they only get used for specific missions.

    I considered getting a 130/140mm FS bike this time around to keep it distinct from the Nomad, but when I looked at the options I'm giving up so little with a modern 6" travel FS bike on the less demanding trails that it made more sense to stick with a longer travel bike.

    I travel a lot to ride and I've hauled 2 bikes around and tried to pick the best for each ride.....what a pain....I'd rather have one bike to rule them all.

    I plan to build up the new bike on the light, but functional side and keep the Nomad burly. The Nomad will be a great back up bike and when rides are going to be downright abusive it will get the call.

    Your Chili is one step more heavy duty than my Nomad so you would have even more separation between bikes.
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    I forgot to mention, one thing to consider is the fact that once you get used to the 27.5 wheels (give it a few months) It is damn hard to go back to the smaller wheel. I tried holding on to my all time fave bike, the ASR-7 but jumping on that bike after spending a few months on the 27.5 Rune it felt really slow and simply off.

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    I would go for the bike with the biggest separation from the Chili. The Czar and Ripley seem to fit that bill. From the reviews the Ripley seems pretty diverse, XC ripper to trail slayer.

    If you get a bike in the 140 range it starts to creep into Chili territory. Then you build the Chili heavier. Next thing you know you are not riding the Chili as much as you would like.

    If you get a bike on the XC/trail side of things it still gives you some room on the other end to upgrade that bike in the future. Example: if bikes like the warden and mach6 really grow on you and you feel they are just as capable as your chili, you still have room to include it in your quiver. A burlier Warden and a Ripley still seem like a nice pair, where as a Sight/Troy and Warden would be a tough buy.

    A bike like the Czar or Ripley seems like the perfect bike for true epics as well. Not sure if that interests you, but if you plan on riding any 50+ milers a bike like this seems hard to beat.

    Good luck with your decision. It's a nice problem to have.

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    I think you'll miss your long travel feeling. Reading about your riding style - you prefer bikes that can handle tech. Same here... and Every time I switch to my wife's Anthem I bottom it out in the firs 2 minutes.( i used to like this bike 2 years ago when i was learning ) I think, what you are looking for - is a different feeling bike. I ride with a lot of guys with Knollys in the technical park here and they are not fast accelerators out of the box ( but great bikes fro Lynn Woods). You should try something with DW suspension and build light (Carbon). Heck even Pivot 5.7C will fly compared to chilcotin (Pivot now offers 27.5 builds on that too). Ripley with 140 fork was a good suggestion, HDR 27.5, Rip9 RDO - all will give you that different "light" feeling. Would not worry too much about overlapping. You are probably going to use new bike more - but that's what you are spending your money on. On the days when you feel that the terrain is going to "brake" your new carbon - then go to Chilcotin. i have a Giant reign with burly build that I bring to Lynn Woods since I know that park eventually is going to brake my Pivot, even though I prefer to ride a lighter bike even there. I also take Reign to Highland for DH runs, So both bikes get used but Pivot just get used more

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    Chilcotin complement bike decision.

    Get a 29er hardtail with what Francois calls 'rally geometry' and spend the remaining 3k on a nice holiday. Slack, short-stayed 29er HTs are great fun on less demanding trails and climb better than any of your FS contenders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyam3 View Post
    I think you'll miss your long travel feeling. Reading about your riding style - you prefer bikes that can handle tech. I think, what you are looking for - is a different feeling bike. You are probably going to use new bike more - but that's what you are spending your money on. On the days when you feel that the terrain is going to "brake" your new carbon - then go to Chilcotin.
    ^^^ This...
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    Have you looked at it from a different angle? Why don't you want to ride the Chili on the trails you mentioned? Weight, pedaling prowess, other? You have stated your like of the M6 in several threads and it can handle everything the Chili can and be built to last at 27.5 lbs. If I remember correctly that is about 6 lbs lighter than the Chili. That gives you a ton more flexibility in terms of where you ride it. I have no problem riding mine on 25-30 mile jaunts with big vertical.

    I understand brand loyalty and really struggled mentally with setting aside my HD, but after a few weeks on my new bike I know I made the right decision. I still have nothing negative to say about my HD other than my disappointment that the HDR is not an M6. Knolly is a great brand, but they really need to build some carbon bikes. The days of people buying high end aluminum are coming to a close as shown by both Turner and Intense releasing carbon models.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    My other bike is a SC Nomad with a Float 36 and a burly build. It's entering year 6 under my butt and going strong. I've used it for buff XC riding and admittedly it's overkill, but even that bike, which would be considered a dated design by many, still ripped.

    One of the new breed of 650B AM bikes would be even more capable on smoother trails and still handle the AM stuff up the limits of their tires/wheels.

    The two 6" bikes will be my only two "trail bikes". I have a fatbike and a rigid 29er bikepacking bike, but they only get used for specific missions.

    I considered getting a 130/140mm FS bike this time around to keep it distinct from the Nomad, but when I looked at the options I'm giving up so little with a modern 6" travel FS bike on the less demanding trails that it made more sense to stick with a longer travel bike.

    I travel a lot to ride and I've hauled 2 bikes around and tried to pick the best for each ride.....what a pain....I'd rather have one bike to rule them all.

    I plan to build up the new bike on the light, but functional side and keep the Nomad burly. The Nomad will be a great back up bike and when rides are going to be downright abusive it will get the call.

    Your Chili is one step more heavy duty than my Nomad so you would have even more separation between bikes.
    Right. I was confusing your stable with someone else I've been talking to about this dilemma. Yeah, the Nomad is more like the Chili and I could see some room for a lighter carbon 140-150mm 27.5" in my quiver for most general Trail/AM duties then pulling out the Chili for the Goat Camp/DH/ Park days.... but I'd still be jonesing for that fast XC/trail ripper......

    But maybe a light 140 bike like the carbon Sight or Troy would separate things even more. Would it be enough? And would it fill my craving for that fast, light, smoother trail assasin? That's the question.

    Edit: I forgot was going to comment on the "travel bike" dilemma. I also travel quite a bit to ride and when I had the Delirium T and the 5 Spot was forever trying to decide which one to take. Or I'd take them both then try and decide for each trail which one to ride. Hmm. This does seem to argue in favor of the one killer endurotrailallmountainrally bike option that Noah Colorado proposed.
    Last edited by KRob; 02-06-2014 at 12:51 AM.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by james12345pt View Post
    How "Buff" are these trails? If they really flow; then I would look at a carbon 29 hardtail. FS have improved by leaps and bounds over the last 10 years but nothing beats a light hardtail on smooth trails. If they are more xc oriented; then the Santa Cruz 5010 would be the one. The VPP really does pedal the best. Just my option.
    Hmmm. I haven't even ridden a hardtail in like 10 years except my wife's old GT Palomar (full rigid, steel boat anchor, rim brakes, etc) once when I went riding with my scouts and had loaned all my bikes out to them.

    The trails I often ride on my morning rides (because they're fun and a 5 minute ride from my front door) are fairly smooth, though there is some rough sections and a few loose rocky sections, etc. The trails I ride sometimes in Park City and want to ride more in Sun Valley are what I'd call buff. I'm sure a HT would work OK for my local stuff and excell on the more buff PC an SV trails, but I think I'm just an FS guy and I don't think I'm going back. Maybe I should try some carbon 29er HTs this year at I-bike. Maybe my perception would change.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    I would go for the bike with the biggest separation from the Chili. The Czar and Ripley seem to fit that bill. From the reviews the Ripley seems pretty diverse, XC ripper to trail slayer.

    If you get a bike in the 140 range it starts to creep into Chili territory. Then you build the Chili heavier. Next thing you know you are not riding the Chili as much as you would like.

    If you get a bike on the XC/trail side of things it still gives you some room on the other end to upgrade that bike in the future. Example: if bikes like the warden and mach6 really grow on you and you feel they are just as capable as your chili, you still have room to include it in your quiver. A burlier Warden and a Ripley still seem like a nice pair, where as a Sight/Troy and Warden would be a tough buy.

    A bike like the Czar or Ripley seems like the perfect bike for true epics as well. Not sure if that interests you, but if you plan on riding any 50+ milers a bike like this seems hard to beat.

    Good luck with your decision. It's a nice problem to have.
    Good input, Tim. I think you're right. I keep coming back this and I do do the occasional epic and may even consider entering an endurance XC like the PC P2P at some point again if I had the appropriate tool for the job.

    So I get the Czar or Ripley now then when Noel comes out with the Carbon Warden or whatever I've got the perfect Chili replacement in a couple years when I'm ready to do that. Food for thought.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Have you looked at it from a different angle? Why don't you want to ride the Chili on the trails you mentioned? Weight, pedaling prowess, other? You have stated your like of the M6 in several threads and it can handle everything the Chili can and be built to last at 27.5 lbs. If I remember correctly that is about 6 lbs lighter than the Chili. That gives you a ton more flexibility in terms of where you ride it. I have no problem riding mine on 25-30 mile jaunts with big vertical.

    I understand brand loyalty and really struggled mentally with setting aside my HD, but after a few weeks on my new bike I know I made the right decision. I still have nothing negative to say about my HD other than my disappointment that the HDR is not an M6. Knolly is a great brand, but they really need to build some carbon bikes. The days of people buying high end aluminum are coming to a close as shown by both Turner and Intense releasing carbon models.
    True dat' Hight strength carbon molds by pretty much all manufacturers seems to be the norm these days. The idea that it has better repetitive impact resistance than Alu is very appealing to me. All my Alu bikes in past +4 years have died within the first season (sometimes more than once) as carbon frames continue to get stronger.
    Ride On!

  38. #38
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    Given the following assumptions which I know are correct from riding with you:

    - You're competent
    - You don't use travel as a crutch
    - You're not into fashion
    - You don't do koolaid
    - While a Knolly fanboy you do have that unusual trait of having an open mind

    and you said you don't want overlap

    Get either the Ripley or the Czar
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyam3 View Post
    I think you'll miss your long travel feeling. Reading about your riding style - you prefer bikes that can handle tech. Same here... and Every time I switch to my wife's Anthem I bottom it out in the firs 2 minutes.( i used to like this bike 2 years ago when i was learning ) I think, what you are looking for - is a different feeling bike. I ride with a lot of guys with Knollys in the technical park here and they are not fast accelerators out of the box ( but great bikes fro Lynn Woods). You should try something with DW suspension and build light (Carbon). Heck even Pivot 5.7C will fly compared to chilcotin (Pivot now offers 27.5 builds on that too). Ripley with 140 fork was a good suggestion, HDR 27.5, Rip9 RDO - all will give you that different "light" feeling. Would not worry too much about overlapping. You are probably going to use new bike more - but that's what you are spending your money on. On the days when you feel that the terrain is going to "brake" your new carbon - then go to Chilcotin. i have a Giant reign with burly build that I bring to Lynn Woods since I know that park eventually is going to brake my Pivot, even though I prefer to ride a lighter bike even there. I also take Reign to Highland for DH runs, So both bikes get used but Pivot just get used more
    I don't think I'll miss the long travel in the rear, especially on the trails I plan on taking this new bike on. I don't think the difference from 130-160mm feels that noticeable for most trails if the suspension action is good. When things get weird/crazy with drops and such then I notice obviously, but for much of my day to day local riding I think 120-130 is sufficient (maybe even 100).

    But I do agree, that for those same trails, I'm looking for something that feels different: More snappy, quicker accelerating, more efficient. I also agree that a lighter, more efficient bike even in 140mm travel would still feel quite different than my Chilcotin. Maybe having a bike like that, even if it overlaps into Chili territory would be OK, plus you get the added capability for the more techy, rowdy trails, or more practically, sections of trails that come up.

    Your final point makes sense too: There was a guy at the Knollfest that rode his new carbon Rip9 RDO in Sedona on the more "XC" ride but brought out his 2 year old alloy Rip 9 for the nasty Goat Camp descent for that very reason: Didn't want to destroy his new pretty carbon bike on the rocks.
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  40. #40
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    How are you still trying to figure this out? Especially with cash ready to go...

    I don't see anything wrong with getting a bike that has overlap with the Chilcotin. Unless you are a sponsored athlete and need that extra nth to gain you a higher place, why would you buy an XC style bike? The Mach 6 keeps coming up in your posts, so why not do a lightweight build with that?

    The great thing about overlap is you have two bikes to choose from that will work extremely well in the majority of riding environments. You still get to enjoy the differences between the bikes and not be seriously under gunned when you need it. (this is what keeps me from buying another hardtail)

    Have fun,
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Have you looked at it from a different angle? Why don't you want to ride the Chili on the trails you mentioned? Weight, pedaling prowess, other? You have stated your like of the M6 in several threads and it can handle everything the Chili can and be built to last at 27.5 lbs. If I remember correctly that is about 6 lbs lighter than the Chili. That gives you a ton more flexibility in terms of where you ride it. I have no problem riding mine on 25-30 mile jaunts with big vertical.

    I understand brand loyalty and really struggled mentally with setting aside my HD, but after a few weeks on my new bike I know I made the right decision. I still have nothing negative to say about my HD other than my disappointment that the HDR is not an M6. Knolly is a great brand, but they really need to build some carbon bikes. The days of people buying high end aluminum are coming to a close as shown by both Turner and Intense releasing carbon models.
    I beg to differ. He likes his Chilcotin, I doubt he wants to be stuck riding only a DW if he likes his bike so much. Besides, I bet a 28lb Warden will be just as capable as a 27.5lb M6 on a 25-30 mile all day yet probably be better at the descends.

    I still keep my vote for 5010 if you want strictly pedaling efficiency or the Sight if you want a light weight snappy whip that would also handle the chunk.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Have you looked at it from a different angle? Why don't you want to ride the Chili on the trails you mentioned? Weight, pedaling prowess, other? You have stated your like of the M6 in several threads and it can handle everything the Chili can and be built to last at 27.5 lbs. If I remember correctly that is about 6 lbs lighter than the Chili. That gives you a ton more flexibility in terms of where you ride it. I have no problem riding mine on 25-30 mile jaunts with big vertical.

    I understand brand loyalty and really struggled mentally with setting aside my HD, but after a few weeks on my new bike I know I made the right decision. I still have nothing negative to say about my HD other than my disappointment that the HDR is not an M6. Knolly is a great brand, but they really need to build some carbon bikes. The days of people buying high end aluminum are coming to a close as shown by both Turner and Intense releasing carbon models.
    Hmmm. I'm getting a ton of good input here.

    It's not that I don't want to ride the Chili on the trails I mentioned (Like I said, it works fine), it's just that they would be even more fun on something lighter and more responsive. Also these are trails that I ride a LOT, so they kinda get old by the end of the summer. A new feeling, faster bike would make even the trails seem almost new again.

    But having said that, I can see where even a light built M6, or Sight, or Troy or Warden (fill in the blank) would feel appreciably better/faster/more nimble on these trails than the 33lb Chilcotin.... and not give up a ton to the Chili in the rougher stuff. And I don't even mind doing longer, all-day type adventures on the Chili (expecially if roughter terrain is accessed), but being able to access that stuff without suffering quite as much on the long ascents would be nice.

    I'm not sure it's just brand loyalty keeping me faithful to the Chilcotin (although I'll admit there is some of that). It's just that it works so darn well for the type of terrain it's intended for and covers a lot ground on either side of that fairly competently as well... and it's not even a year old yet (I usally keep bikes a 2-3 years).

    My problem is I can always see both sides of an argument. The overlap crowd is starting to sway me a bit.
    Last edited by KRob; 02-04-2014 at 11:50 PM.
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  43. #43
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    Sell Chilcotin. Buy uber nice Mach 6.

    You can only ride one bike at a time, unless your second bike is a specialty bike like a DH bike or full-fledged XC rocket, one killer endurotrailallmountainrally bike is the way to go.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Sell Chilcotin. Buy uber nice Mach 6.

    You can only ride one bike at a time, unless your second bike is a specialty bike like a DH bike or full-fledged XC rocket, one killer endurotrailallmountainrally bike is the way to go.
    See my reply to salespunk above. Not what he wants to do!

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    Echoing a couple of others, I would strongly recommend at least demoing one of the modern aggressive hardtails before fully committing. I agonized over the same decision for a year before ending up with a custom ti 650b hardtail. You can see the build here: http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/cus...il-890199.html

    I cannot tell you how fun that bike is to ride, especially on the flowy fast single track that you are talking about. It performs fine in the rough. Not as smooth as the HD of course, but plenty fun. And it rips through tables, jumps and berms like an oversized dirt jump bike.

    As for wheel size, I tried a Honzo and it was nice, but I preferred the 650b for its playfulness. For aggressive 650b hardtails, there's no carbon option, but you can get Kona and Cove in titanium, the Chromag Samurai 65 looks awesome in handmade steel, and you might be able to get a custom 650b ti frame in your budget.

    Sorry to inject more choices into the debate, but I think you would be wise to at least give the modern hardtails a second look.

  46. #46
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    Go singlespeed (or if you're nuts like me, a fixed gear for winter riding). My inexpensive On one 456C w/ 27.B (copyright NicoleB) wheels is a great complement to a long legged trail bike for days when XC/cardio makes better sense than chunk. For park riding, I just built a Turner DHR - the best deal in the industry ATM IMHO.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Hmmm. I'm getting a ton of good input here.

    It's not that I don't want to ride the Chili on the trails I mentioned (Like I said, it works fine), it's just that they would be even more fun on something lighter and more responsive. Also these are trails that I ride a LOT, so they kinda get old by the end of the summer. A new feeling, faster bike would make even the trails seem almost new again.

    But having said that, I can see where even a light built M6, or Sight, or Troy (fill in the blank) would feel appreciably better/faster/more nimble on these trails than the 33lb Chilcotin.... and not give up a ton to the Chili in the rougher stuff. And I don't even mind doing longer, all-day type adventures on the Chili (expecially if roughter terrain is accessed), but being able to access that stuff without suffering quite as much on the long ascents would be nice.

    I'm not sure it's just brand loyalty keeping me faithful to the Chilcotin (although I'll admit there is some of that). It's just that it works so darn well for the type of terrain it's intended for and covers a lot ground on either side of that fairly competently as well... and it's not even a year old yet (I usally keep bikes a 2-3 years).

    My problem is I can always see both sides of an argument. The overlap crowd is starting to sway me a bit.
    I can understand your point of view and some people like having several bikes just for the enjoyment of having something different. My personal issue is that if I have several bikes I am never really dialed into them and can't get the last 5% of the performance envelope which frustrates me to no end. So despite the fact that I have three really nice bikes in my garage right now, two of them sit completely unused because I feel really comfortable on the other.

    I have seen the same thing repeated over and over again with others as well. My buddy picked up an SWorks Enduro 29 and has not ridden his HD with full XX1 in three months. He is just more comfortable on the SWorks since he comes from a moto background (29 wheels=more stability). He is holding on to the HD for sentimental reasons, but it will probably not get ridden again in the way it was intended. I have a feeling that either you will get a new bike like the Ripley/Czar you will ride it for a while because it is new and then slowly migrate back to the Chili (like my Enduro 29) or you will get a Solo/Range and the Chili will slowly fade into the background except for things like Knollyfest (like my HD).

  48. #48
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    Want separation from Chili and have a more exotic material? I'm sure I'll get laughed out off this forum for this, but Titanium 29er or 650b hardtail.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    I beg to differ. He likes his Chilcotin, I doubt he wants to be stuck riding only a DW if he likes his bike so much. Besides, I bet a 28lb Warden will be just as capable as a 27.5lb M6 on a 25-30 mile all day yet probably be better at the descends.
    This is exactly what I am thinking for myself. I think a 29lb Warden would be a great one bike, but even better with a serving of Chili on the side. My chili is approaching 35lbs and I love it. Avalanche coil front and rear, ridiculously good climber and ripping descender, but a bit portly for all day jaunts. Having an all day capable version of the Chili sounds really appealing. It would be nearly as good as the Chili on the downs, but a more efficient (read: lighter) climber. Still unsure I would want this as my only bike, as there are plenty of times I would want to roll with the Chili, and the Warden could hit cleanup for all of my other rides.

    Hoping to get some extended demo time on a Warden which should answer a lot of my questions.
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    I don't think there can be a conversation about Ripley and Czar without mentioning Mach 429.

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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    I don't think there can be a conversation about Ripley and Czar without mentioning Mach 429.
    True

    As to having two bikes as opposed to one killer AM bike - whatever that maybe.

    It's nice to have two bikes so if one bike blows up you've got another to ride

    Riding the same trail on one bike makes it a totally different experience than on another bike.

    I'm sure others could come up with different reasons. Definitely understand those who just like one bike and want to get dialled on it. There's no right answer to this really.
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  52. #52
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    Lots of good ideas in here.

    Something to consider: Buy "nice enough" Mach 6 and take a mtb vacation to Europe. Fund the mtb vacation in part or in whole by selling the Chilcotin.

    If you sell the Chilcotin, do you still have something to ride the local morning trails in case the "one bike solution" is down? I know I would get a bit crazy if my "one bike" was down and I had nothing to ride/spin the pedals on. My guess is that you still have something else to ride just in case?

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    Clearly people are not reading the entire thread!^

    Anywho, being in the same boat I have a scratch sheet with geo #s and constantly watching/reading reviews, going crazy but I love it!

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    @socalMX: I believe the author mentioned 1.) potentially selling the Chilcotin, 2.) potentially funding a mtb vacation to Europe, 3.) enjoying riding the Mach 6 in several threads, and 4.) outside of this thread has mentioned to me personally the desire to go to Europe to mtb (a few years back). If one has the desire and the funds to travel to mtb, I can't think of a reason not to...

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    Echoing a couple of others, I would strongly recommend at least demoing one of the modern aggressive hardtails before fully committing. I agonized over the same decision for a year before ending up with a custom ti 650b hardtail. You can see the build here: http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/cus...il-890199.html
    Just took a look at your bike. I said at the start of this thread that I'd considered just about every bike, but I gotta say, I never thought about something like that. Wow. Very cool bike. That does look like an absolute riot.

    It also reminds me I did ride a hard tail at Interbike 4-5 years ago. It was a Carver 650 Killer B Ti (yea they used that moniker before Norco and it was one of the first 650b bikes around). That thing was a riot on the smoother Lakes Loops at Bootleg Canyon.

    You guys aren't making this easier........ Although I'd never go SS let alone fixed ( I love gears and coasting too much).

    The "problem" with a bike like this is it leaves too much gap between it and the chili. I'd be back looking for something to fill that niche by the end of the year. Ha ha.

    Where do you live? Maybe I could get a test ride. I'm intrigued. Never thought I'd say that about a hard tail.
    Last edited by KRob; 02-06-2014 at 05:49 PM.
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    I think it really depends on the use of the second bike. If it is a backup for your main bike when it is down for repairs, then I would purchase an 140-160mm travel bike. An 140mm bike would give you a slightly different ride experience but could handle most any thing that you throw at it. But if it is to ride a different type of trail, I would purchase a totally different bike all together. I have an new Intense Carbine 275, a 6 year old SC Blur and an 3 year old hardtail that weighs under 25 pounds and each bike serves a purpose. I tend to ride the Intense on the local gnarly trails, the blur on my epic rides and the hardtrail when I am gravel rode riding or out of town and know the trails are buff and flowing.

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    By posting on this forum( unless there is a cross post in the 29er forum) it seems that your mind is somewhat made up in regards to wheel size, good choice. I've ridden all the sizes and most of the people I ride with ride 29ers, I give up nothing to them in downhill acceleration as one poster stated. I've done my own comparisons either aboard a 29er or riding my converted SC Blur XCc against them, my bike always seems faster.
    We all have a couple of no pedal dh runs on a semi-washboard fire roads and my bike just walked away from them all( 3 Spec. Epics, 1 Spec. hard tail,1 Turner Czar, 1 Sultan) we all are about the same weight, all about the same ability and age. I thought it was going to be close, thought I would finish mid pack, I finished way ahead. In my opinion, riding a 29er does feel different, does that difference relate to a better riding experience?
    I could go on and on, obviously, 27.5 is for me, but maybe not for others, just try before you buy.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertj View Post
    @socalMX: I believe the author mentioned 1.) potentially selling the Chilcotin, 2.) potentially funding a mtb vacation to Europe, 3.) enjoying riding the Mach 6 in several threads, and 4.) outside of this thread has mentioned to me personally the desire to go to Europe to mtb (a few years back). If one has the desire and the funds to travel to mtb, I can't think of a reason not to...
    +1 - in any case the Chili needs to live or die on its own merits. If you get a bike like the Mach 6/Troy/Sight and don't ride the Chili then sell it. If you still ride and enjoy the Chili keep it.

    You should have a bike that sits solidly on your sweet spot - whatever you decide that is - so that the trails that you love to ride you have the perfect weapon and the rest of the time you have a really nice bike, but maybe not the ideal one. If you go to either extreme with a XC oriented bike and a gnarly AM/light DH bike you have the perfect weapon at those ends, but either way you compromise in between them. If your sweet spot is the trail or AM bits of the spectrum you'll buy a new XC bike and then you want bike #3 to fill the gap.

    So draw out a spectrum from XC to DH on a piece of paper and mark where you love to be on the spectrum and buy that bike. Let the overlap between it and the Chili sort itself out over a year or so of riding.

    Traveling is one of the reasons I stay focused on a one bike solution. It's nice to be able to go anywhere and have a great bike to ride whether it's buff XC or gnarly chunk.

    BTW - KRob I love these threads! The only thing better than getting a new bike is helping spend someone else's $$ on a new bike.
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    What people seem to be missing is the fact that he prefers the way the Knolly rides when the going gets rough and wants a lighter faster bike for the smooth flowy trails, I doubt he would want a DW bike as his only 1 , even if he does like how it rides in general. That is why I posted this, from page 1- "KRob, you love the Chilco, the Warden will pedal better/faster, can be built to +~27lbs and be 95% as capable in the gnar as the Chilco. Get the Warden as a 1 bike Chilco replacement and use the extra money for a long "dream" epic journey! CARPE DIEM!!! "

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    What people seem to be missing is the fact that he prefers the way the Knolly rides when the going gets rough and wants a lighter faster bike for the smooth flowy trails, I doubt he would want a DW bike as his only 1 , even if he does like how it rides in general. That is why I posted this, from page 1- "KRob, you love the Chilco, the Warden will pedal better/faster, can be built to +~27lbs and be 95% as capable in the gnar as the Chilco. Get the Warden as a 1 bike Chilco replacement and use the extra money for a long "dream" epic journey! CARPE DIEM!!! "
    LOL - you keep saying that. KRob seems open to other possibilities. If he felt that strongly about it he'd say so for himself and not need you to remind him every 6 posts or so.

    Just saying...
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertj View Post
    Lots of good ideas in here.

    Something to consider: Buy "nice enough" Mach 6 and take a mtb vacation to Europe. Fund the mtb vacation in part or in whole by selling the Chilcotin.

    If you sell the Chilcotin, do you still have something to ride the local morning trails in case the "one bike solution" is down? I know I would get a bit crazy if my "one bike" was down and I had nothing to ride/spin the pedals on. My guess is that you still have something else to ride just in case?
    Can you get any level Mach 6 for $5k? I did see an XT build at go-ride a couple months ago for $6200.

    I do have my wife's RM Altitude 750 alloy that serves as the back up, but SoCalMX is right, I'm not ready to sell the Chilcotin yet. .....I don't think. Perhaps like others have said if I had a killer build M6/Troy/Sight /Warden "One Bike" pretty soon the Chilcotin wouldn't get ridden much.
    That's the part of the puzzle I still need to give some thought to.
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  62. #62
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    Krob,
    what about an RM instinct??? Little more travel than the Thunderbolt and a little more like the Ripley but cheaper. I like the Turners but they are pricey nowadays.
    Too wet to ride!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Can you get any level Mach 6 for $5k? I did see an XT build at go-ride a couple months ago for $6200.

    I do have my wife's RM Altitude 750 alloy that serves as the back up, but SoCalMX is right, I'm not ready to sell the Chilcotin yet. .....I don't think. Perhaps like others have said if I had a killer build M6/Troy/Sight /Warden "One Bike" pretty soon the Chilcotin wouldn't get ridden much.
    That's the part of the puzzle I still need to give some thought to.
    That makes sense, I remember reading about the RM.

    I just did a quick search and found this for $4,699.00. Swap out a few parts to your liking, puts you in the 5K range. I put mine together as a slower build taking every advantage of last year's sales; something else to consider.

    Pivot Mach 6 Carbon 27.5" XT/SLX - The Bike Company

    Have fun with your decision!

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Can you get any level Mach 6 for $5k? I did see an XT build at go-ride a couple months ago for $6200.
    I priced out a bunch of bikes a month or so ago. In Canada where everything costs a $hit ton more - working through a Canadian distributor [extra costs] and a local bike shop I got the following quote:

    M6
    - X0-1 kit
    - Float 34 150 Kash
    - Float X shock

    = $6225CDN

    I'm a known customer at that LBS, but not super friendly with them so that's the good customer price, but not the guy-we-drink-beer-with-and-*****-about-our-wives price.

    Given how many M6's you have sold via MTBR for Pivot with your early positive review [far more important than what some site or mag that gets $$ from Pivot has to say] and that you are in the US where everything is 10-20% cheaper to start with....you should be able to get a M6 for something like $5K.

    If the $$ is what's hanging you up I would email Pivot and ask what a bike would cost.
    Safe riding,

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    Here's a thought: buy a used 29er HT off eBay for $1000 or less for for any epics, and buy a 140 bike for $4000 or less like the sight or the Troy. Mmmmmm... More bikes

  66. #66
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    Chilcotin complement bike decision.

    I doubt you'll get more than a hundred or two off a Mach 6 due to demand.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I have read many of your reviews and have not been on the bikes myself so my only suggestion is, get what you liked the most. Don't worry about a little overlap.

    If you love the M6, get it, you will still love the Chili or you won't and you can sell it and find another bike that might fit a gap you have. Someone else said that the Chili will either stand on its own or not get ridden enough and you can sell it for a hardtail to fill a gap.
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    I doubt you'll get more than a hundred or two off a Mach 6 due to demand.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I talked to a Pivot dealer in AZ and they were happy to drop $300 off the cost of a M6 frame and this was a stranger calling over the phone so not the buddy deal.

    That price for a complete I quoted above is over $700 off MSRP in Canada.

    So there is some room to manoeuvre.

    KRob can add his MTBR reviewer rep into the mix and get a better deal than the average bear.
    Safe riding,

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    Seriously. Take that mtbr association for a spin

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    You dropping the name of the shop where you bought it alone will probably yield them a couple of high end sales. Its in the interest of a shop to cut you a sick deal.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokarsky268 View Post
    Seriously. Take that mtbr association for a spin
    +1 - KRob has put lots of time and effort getting us some good product info. He certainly deserves to get a karmic payback.
    Safe riding,

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  72. #72
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    Re: Chilcotin complement bike decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjcools View Post
    I have read many of your reviews and have not been on the bikes myself so my only suggestion is, get what you liked the most. Don't worry about a little overlap.

    If you love the M6, get it, you will still love the Chili or you won't and you can sell it and find another bike that might fit a gap you have. Someone else said that the Chili will either stand on its own or not get ridden enough and you can sell it for a hardtail to fill a gap.
    I have to agree. If you liked the M6 the most of all the bikes considered, get it.
    If you do not want to go over 140mm rear, forget about it and get the one which felt the best in this cathegory.
    It is M6 vs 5010 for me, but I did not ride any of the new 29".
    I still own a SC TBc and TRc.
    If I get a 5010, TRc goes for sure, TB might go too.
    If I get a M6, one of the SC will stay.

  73. #73
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    Heck man, pick a shop and get Francois to call them for you. Can't go wrong there. Probably could get 50% or something crazy like that

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    Tough decision for sure. I love my Burner for our local trails, but when I went looking for a bike I was looking for 'The One' bike to do it all for me.

    I will admit, I recently bought the Fatboy and now am interested in riding the local loops on a full rigid. So I would nod towards the notion of looking at a long-travel hard-tail for the local stuff. I think it would be a lot of fun, no over lap with the Chilli but provide new perspective to the trails. Imagine Twisted Pine on a hard-tail rocket.

    My two-bits. Can't wait to check out what you bring to trails.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by prooperator View Post
    Krob,
    what about an RM instinct??? Little more travel than the Thunderbolt and a little more like the Ripley but cheaper. I like the Turners but they are pricey nowadays.
    Yeah, that one kinda slipped under my radar. Do they have a BC/Rally edition too? In general I haven't been impressed with the 130ish travel 29ers I've ridden which include the Rip 9, SB95, Intense Spider (4.75") and a few others I can't remember right now at least for my current bike purchase needs. However knowing RM's slant towards more rowdy xc/BC type riding this might be cool. Does it come in carbon too?
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  76. #76
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    As much as I love the Sight Carbon, the carbon Troy can be had in XP build spec for $3400. That leaves a lot in the bank to upgrade things like the seatpost, wheels, etc while still getting the Monarch and Pike.
    GIS/GPS Pro using ArcFM for Utility Mapping - Always willing to connect with other MTBers in the industry.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Given how many M6's you have sold via MTBR for Pivot with your early positive review [far more important than what some site or mag that gets $$ from Pivot has to say] and that you are in the US where everything is 10-20% cheaper to start with....you should be able to get a M6 for something like $5K.

    If the $$ is what's hanging you up I would email Pivot and ask what a bike would cost.
    Interesting. Flattering as that is, I really don't think I'm anybody of note in the bike industry or that I'm even on Chris Cocalis' radar screen, but who knows. The price isn't hanging me up, but I'm never opposed to a great deal. .

    Of course if I took a deal offered by Pivot it makes it that much harder to offer an unbiased review next year, right? That's a pretty good price you found though for a nice build without any industry hook up. That gives me hope that the M6 isn't out of the picture price wise.
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  78. #78
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    Most of my rides are like your morning rides and I have two bikes (well actually three if you count my Yelli) with a lot of overlap: A Ripley and a Carbine 275 (built light). If you go Ripley, go 140mm Pike. The effect it has on slightly slowing down the lightning quick handling is beneficial without negatively affecting the climbing ability. The Pike 140 is light and has an A-C that is less than the Fox 34 140, but more than the 34 120. That said, I really like my 2013 Carbine 275 with a 150mm Pike. It rides just like your 2012 review where you raved about the bike. I don't know what the problem was with the 2014 bike that you rode.
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  79. #79
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    I have to say, it's nice to pick a bike out of the garage based on the ride you'll be doing that day. IMO, The only downside is maintaining multiple bikes.

    The one bike that I'm currently most curious about is the Banshee Phantom, seems like it could be the perfect bike to compliment a 6" AM bike, it is aluminum though. I'd also like to check out the Rocky Mountain Element 970 BC Edition and the Ventana Alpino.

    I will also echo the AM hartail suggestions. I'm riding the Canfield YS and N9 and both were eye openers for me. Both are super fun to ride.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    The one bike that I'm currently most curious about is the Banshee Phantom, seems like it could be the perfect bike to compliment a 6" AM bike, it is aluminum though.
    I got just about noosed in the Banshee forum for asking if the Phantom can be built at 26lbs. Apparently the average build weight will be 28-29lbs, with 26-27 reserved for smaller frames, lots of carbon and small tires.
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I got just about noosed in the Banshee forum for asking if the Phantom can be built at 26lbs. Apparently the average build weight will be 28-29lbs, with 26-27 reserved for smaller frames, lots of carbon and small tires.
    Yeah, I'm waiting to see what happens when it's released.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    .... The price isn't hanging me up...
    $ doesn't matter= M6 w/ heavy and light setups- coil x coil & wheels + air x air & wheels
    video=youtube;][/video]...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I've got a pretty nice work related bonus coming in the next month or two and I've got the green light to put $5000 of it to a new bike.

    I currently ride a Knolly Chilcotin as my one bike and really love it especially when the going gets extra chunky or droppy or steep. It works OK on the faster, smoother stuff too but obviously that's not its strength.

    I want to keep the Chili but I'd like to add a new bike for the faster smoother local trails that I ride quite often in the AM before work and for trips to PC and Sun Valley where fast, buff, and swoppy are the order of the day.

    Let's assume I'm going to limit my choices to carbon. I've tested quite a few bikes and there's something that just feels right about a good carbon frame... Light, stiff, yet still possessing a unique damped quality. Besides, it's the wave of the future and I'm a lemming.

    There's two bikes each in three slightly different genres, if you will, that I have "narrowed" it down to (when you've ridden as many bikes as I have over the last 6 months getting the pool down to six was quite an accomplishment).... and there's still 4-5 bikes I loved that it kills me to leave off my final six. But you gotta start reducing somewhere, right.

    The first two I love because of how they ride quite fast and light on smoother trails yet still have the ability to transfer over into more Trail/AM territory. Their price point is really good for carbon but at 140mm travel they start to overlap into Chili territory a bit as far as function.

    1) Devinci Troy Carbon
    2) Norco Sight Carbon

    Group two are faster (presumably) more XC slanted 29ers with some pretty good cross over ability into the trail category. I like the way a 29er really pics up speed on rolling terrain with seemingly little pedal input but am a bit put off by the lazier steering and tall stack heights sometimes. These two seem to be the exception in this regard to some extent along witht he Jet 9 RDO.

    1) Ibis Ripley
    2) Turner Czar

    Group three are shorter travel 27.5" bikes in the 120-130 range that rip the XC yet still feel very capable on some chunkier stuff (One does not exist and I'm obviously making some huge assumptions here, but I'm hoping for a carbon shorter travel version of the Warden maybe next year).

    1) Santa Cruz 5010c
    2) Knolly "Fugitive"

    I think my preferences lean towards these last two (light, flickable, fast, with some of the momentum carrying effects of the bigger wheels) more 26er like in the tighter, twisty, flow trail type stuff yet still able to handle some rowdiness and the occasional enduro race. However neither will fit my price range as well as the first two. And of course, I have no idea whether Knolly will even produce a bike like the Fugitive and if so how long I'd have to wait for it. My guess is a year or two. Also, it would be really tough to get either of the 29ers for $5000 so some smart shopping, going slightley used, or further saving would be required it I went that way.

    I like all kinds of trails and am an older, but still fit, reasonably advanced rider who will enter this bike in an enduro race once in a while when the course favors it.

    Thoughts? I'm sure many of you have read some of my reviews and opinions on various threads over the past couple months but could really use some help narrowing it down a bit further. Feel free to bring up other options, but believe me, I've really considered most every bike out there.
    Your post sounds like the dude on The Bachelor when he's trying to figure out which hot chick to kick to the curb and which to keep.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Of course if I took a deal offered by Pivot it makes it that much harder to offer an unbiased review next year, right?
    Your reviews aren't unbiased now. You don't get paid by Knolly, but you've obviously got a serious brand loyalty thing going on there and I don't say that like it's a bad thing. Being stoked about a bike and the company behind it is a good thing. Why would you ride it if you didn't feel that way?

    I don't think you are going to ride a bike you don't think is awesome to save $300-$500 more off the price than the typical LBS-good-guy deal.

    You also don't have the typical advertiser funded media problem...you aren't expecting a pay cheque next week from company X so you don't have an incentive to be significantly biased to keep them happy.

    If you buy a Mach 6 at full MSRP this year and have an amazing season on it I don't expect you to be unbiased when it comes to comparing it to some new bike at Outerbike in the fall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post

    I want to keep the Chili but I'd like to add a new bike for the faster smoother local trails that I ride quite often in the AM before work and for trips to PC and Sun Valley where fast, buff, and swoppy are the order of the day.


    1) Ibis Ripley
    2) Turner Czar
    The answer to your question! Very different bikes from the Chilcotin and better for fast buff and swoopy.
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Just took a look at your bike. I said at the start of this thread that I'd considered just about every bike, but I gotta say, I never thought about something like that. Wow. Very cool bike. That does look like an absolute riot.

    It also reminds me I did ride a hard tail at Interbike 4-5 years ago. It was a Carver 650 Killer B Ti (yea they used that moniker before Norco and it was one of the first 650b bikes around). That thing was a riot on the smoother Lakes Loops at Bootleg Canyon.

    You guys aren't making this easier........ Although I'd never go SS let alone fixed ( I love gears and coasting too much).

    The "problem" with a bike like this is it leaves too much gap between it and the chili. I'd be back looking for something to fill that niche by the end of the year. Ha ha.

    Where do you live? Maybe I could get a test ride. I'm intrigued. Never thought I'd say that a out a hard tail.
    I live in Portland, but I do make it out to Western Colorado every 6 months or so. You'd be welcome to give it a spin if you are around. Although there are lots of things I love about the simplicity of a SS, I'm not planning on having it as a SS permanently. I have an XX1 drivetrain that will go on once/if the Chris King driver gets into production.

    As for your question about a gap from a hardtail up to your Chili, its smaller than you might think. My other bike is a Mojo HD, so similar class to your Chili. I had a carbon 29 SS race bike before building the vulture and I found there was a pretty big gap up to the HD. I always felt my self wanting a 120-130 mm frame to split the difference. I was planning on actually building up a 29er ti race bike and then also getting a 120mm trail FS. But I demoed the Honzo and few other modern aggro hardtails which opened my mind to a more all purpose hardtail. Then I got inured (concussion) and spent almost 8 months off the bike, so racing isn't a big thing for me these days. That convinced me to go with the 650b trail/am hardtail. After riding it for a couple of months, I would say I really don't have a real need for a 120mm FS bike anymore. Sure, it might be nice for a few trails, but I find myself taking the vulture even when I go hit up trails like Sandy Ridge. See if you can find a Kona Explosiv to demo, which will give you a feel for what these bikes can do.

  87. #87
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    Chilcotin complement bike decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I got just about noosed in the Banshee forum for asking if the Phantom can be built at 26lbs. Apparently the average build weight will be 28-29lbs, with 26-27 reserved for smaller frames, lots of carbon and small tires.
    Lol - they were pretty hard on you.

    I think a Phantom could be build to 27 (especially since I have a light duty prime at 29 lbs), but as OHM says, we will have to wait for real specs on the frame to know for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    How are you still trying to figure this out? Especially with cash ready to go...

    I don't see anything wrong with getting a bike that has overlap with the Chilcotin. Unless you are a sponsored athlete and need that extra nth to gain you a higher place, why would you buy an XC style bike? The Mach 6 keeps coming up in your posts, so why not do a lightweight build with that?

    The great thing about overlap is you have two bikes to choose from that will work extremely well in the majority of riding environments. You still get to enjoy the differences between the bikes and not be seriously under gunned when you need it. (this is what keeps me from buying another hardtail)

    Have fun,
    Bubba
    Good reply Lee! Thanks, this helps me as well since I am in similar boat as Krob with available funds this winter/spring and wanting to buy a bike. I originally wanted a XC/trail rig counter to my Rune for PB night rides (going tonight) and whatnot, but I always come back to bikes like Warden and M6 as well.

    So, at this point I have narrowed it down to Rune + 5010c as my go to XC/slopey trail rig or just replace Rune with Warden or Mach 6 for all XC/trail/AM duties? The Rune has only 13 months on it, but 13 hard months with welded rear end and all, so I may have to ultimately replace that at some point this year as well. My comfort limit on price is $4-5k max (but could always wiggle some if bike sweeps me off my feet). Looks like a 5010c built how I want would cost me around $5400, Mach6 at $4600 (w/most parts from Rune) and Warden $3700 w/parts from Rune minus fork/wheels. Watcha think?
    Ride On!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Norco Sight c as others echoed. Fun, snappy, pedally, but still supple to chatter kind of rig based on my hour-long test I had with it last week. If wanting to keep it more XC/trail go with Revalation as specced. If more aggro trail, go Pike down to 140 for great pedalling/descending geometry with use of 26"/150 air spring that only costs $38 and looks easy to install. Run 1x10 or 1x11 if funds there for 26-27lb little trail rippa! No 5010c on list? A local shop worker who has that as his primary trail rig has been taking it on big backcountry trail rides with big elevation changes (at least 1000ft/mile) and he said it does fine while descending. Only weak point is 32mm fork when gets really steep and rough on trail at times. Enter Pike 140!
    I was just rereading some of these responses (and some of your PMs) trying to sort things out and I think you really nailed it with this description, Jon. Really strikes home. Sounds like we both have very similar wants for a second bike.

    And, yes, the 5010c is on the list. Probably still at the top. The lowered Pike may be the bomb for that too (I love a stiff fork) although I think I'd be OK witht he 130 Float or Rev too for this application.
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    I finally saw both the Troy and Sight carbon 7.2 today. Riding Troy tomorrow. The thing that was the most striking about the sight was how low slung that top tube is. Would think its crazy maneuverable. Both are hot looking bikes for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I was just rereading some of these responses (and some of your PMs) trying to sort things out and I think you really nailed it with this description, Jon. Really strikes home. Sounds like we both have very similar wants for a second bike.
    Yes indeed, glad I could help. I am right with you in that wanting a little more XC/trail biased kind of bike to counter my fully built-up AM Rune machine, but bike can't feel too XC to me or I am not going to want to ride it much. Want an XC/trail slope kind of bike that is snappy/responsive, yet supple to chatter when it needs to be.

    I am testing four bikes while in Sedona in 10 days! (5010, Bronson, Process, M6) to help me decide before committing to buy as well. So far it is down to 5010c + Rune for a two, go-to bike stable or M6 or Warden on it's own and one bike. Sight C is sweet, but afraid I may push it beyond it's limits too much due to linear suspension, so back to 5010c instead.
    Ride On!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    How are you still trying to figure this out? Especially with cash ready to go...
    I know, right? Actually I don't have the money in hand yet. The government offered an incentive for ODs to go to electronic medical records and once I complete my attestation statement, it takes "30-60 days". We'll see when it shows up.

    I think it's harder to spend the money once I have it in hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13
    I don't see anything wrong with getting a bike that has overlap with the Chilcotin. Unless you are a sponsored athlete and need that extra nth to gain you a higher place, why would you buy an XC style bike? The Mach 6 keeps coming up in your posts, so why not do a lightweight build with that?

    The great thing about overlap is you have two bikes to choose from that will work extremely well in the majority of riding environments. You still get to enjoy the differences between the bikes and not be seriously under gunned when you need it. (this is what keeps me from buying another hardtail)

    Have fun,
    Bubba
    Good point. Two capable and versatile bikes is a good thing. And like I said elsewhere, a light M6 is still going to feel quite different than the Chili on the faster smoother trails and be nearly as capable on the gnarlier stuff (I think).
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    I've got some experience with the Solo I can offer. I lived on east coast, and had 5-6in bikes with high BB clearance, and then moved out west, and found that that geometry that was great on super rocky "hiking trails" built back in the civilian conservation corp days didn't work that great for machine built mtn bike trails around the west. I bought a TRC and really liked it (with a Fox 36 set at 140). Demo'd a stock Solo, and was shocked at how much more I liked it. So I sold the TRC frame, and swapped everything (including the 36 fork) over. Big fork slackens the front a bit, squeaks a bit more BB height, and is super stiff. Compared to the stock demo, I can't feel a single negative of the bigger fork. Its the most fun bike I've ever ridden. Even though its not huge on travel, the geometry is solid and super capable. for the stuff I've ridden (oregon, nor cal, sun valley, squamish) its been a better set up than the bronson I demo'd.

    My buddy has a Chili. These bikes couldn't be more different. My Solo is tossable, rips corners, really lets you work the trail. Its the best mix of climbing and descending I've found. His Chili is like a monster truck that smashes the trail in half as it rolls by, and is one of the more capable pedaling bikes I've ridden. Puts a huge smile on my face every time I ride it, but its not great where the Solo shines, and the Solo is great where the chili doesn't shine.

    Based on everything you've stated, if you went this route, I honestly think you'll ride the Solo more than your chili, but you'll "know" the rides where you'd be happier on your Chili. Both are super fun, but have different strengths for sure.

    And FYI - I demo'd a Sight for 2 days. That bike descended incredibly well for what it is.I almost went for it. The stock solo doesn't descend as competently as the Sight, but with a stout 140 fork, I think they are pretty compatible, and I felt the solo climbed significantly better, and I never reach for the propedal, as I did on the Sight. Hope this helps, and thanks for posting all you have for everyone else!

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    That was a good read! I really want to demo a 5010 to compare it to the Bronson I demoed. To me the Bronson had the typical cramped SC feeling with a shortish top tube and lazy (too inactive for me) rear end feel. I think a lightweight 5010-C would be a fast pedaling blast to ride, being fair to the Bronson I demoed it was a alloy low end build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayoutside View Post
    I've got some experience with the Solo I can offer. I lived on east coast, and had 5-6in bikes with high BB clearance, and then moved out west, and found that that geometry that was great on super rocky "hiking trails" built back in the civilian conservation corp days didn't work that great for machine built mtn bike trails around the west. I bought a TRC and really liked it (with a Fox 36 set at 140). Demo'd a stock Solo, and was shocked at how much more I liked it. So I sold the TRC frame, and swapped everything (including the 36 fork) over. Big fork slackens the front a bit, squeaks a bit more BB height, and is super stiff. Compared to the stock demo, I can't feel a single negative of the bigger fork. Its the most fun bike I've ever ridden. Even though its not huge on travel, the geometry is solid and super capable. for the stuff I've ridden (oregon, nor cal, sun valley, squamish) its been a better set up than the bronson I demo'd.

    My buddy has a Chili. These bikes couldn't be more different. My Solo is tossable, rips corners, really lets you work the trail. Its the best mix of climbing and descending I've found. His Chili is like a monster truck that smashes the trail in half as it rolls by, and is one of the more capable pedaling bikes I've ridden. Puts a huge smile on my face every time I ride it, but its not great where the Solo shines, and the Solo is great where the chili doesn't shine.

    Based on everything you've stated, if you went this route, I honestly think you'll ride the Solo more than your chili, but you'll "know" the rides where you'd be happier on your Chili. Both are super fun, but have different strengths for sure.

    And FYI - I demo'd a Sight for 2 days. That bike descended incredibly well for what it is.I almost went for it. The stock solo doesn't descend as competently as the Sight, but with a stout 140 fork, I think they are pretty compatible, and I felt the solo climbed significantly better, and I never reach for the propedal, as I did on the Sight. Hope this helps, and thanks for posting all you have for everyone else!
    Thanks, very insightful and helpful for me as well. I did a night ride tonight (Oregon) on mostly smooth, slopey XC trails on my 160 Rune and was dreamin' of a shorter travel, but still fast descender on these kind of trails and had Sight and Solo on the membrane. I just found out I can get a pretty good deal on 5010c (much more than anything other bike out there), so really steering towards that as my go-to AM counterpart. I plan to use 140 fork (Pike) as well. You find the stock CTD shock works fine for you and does the bike feel nice low and stable? I know it has a low BB height, but bigger fork raises it a smidge and VPP typically rides pretty high.
    Ride On!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tortfeasor View Post
    Most of my rides are like your morning rides and I have two bikes (well actually three if you count my Yelli) with a lot of overlap: A Ripley and a Carbine 275 (built light). If you go Ripley, go 140mm Pike. The effect it has on slightly slowing down the lightning quick handling is beneficial without negatively affecting the climbing ability. The Pike 140 is light and has an A-C that is less than the Fox 34 140, but more than the 34 120. That said, I really like my 2013 Carbine 275 with a 150mm Pike. It rides just like your 2012 review where you raved about the bike. I don't know what the problem was with the 2014 bike that you rode.
    Carbine275/Ripley: nice duo. KTM 300: nice moto (yes, I have one too). I'm thinking here's a guy that knows his bikes. Tell me more about how you like that combination (MTB) and how it works for you. Assuming you didn't have the YS would it leave you wanting on either side of the extremes (XC and aggressive Am)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Good reply Lee! Thanks, this helps me as well since I am in similar boat as Krob with available funds this winter/spring and wanting to buy a bike. I originally wanted a XC/trail rig counter to my Rune for PB night rides (going tonight) and whatnot, but I always come back to bikes like Warden and M6 as well.

    So, at this point I have narrowed it down to Rune + 5010c as my go to XC/slopey trail rig or just replace Rune with Warden or Mach 6 for all XC/trail/AM duties? The Rune has only 13 months on it, but 13 hard months with welded rear end and all, so I may have to ultimately replace that at some point this year as well. My comfort limit on price is $4-5k max (but could always wiggle some if bike sweeps me off my feet). Looks like a 5010c built how I want would cost me around $5400, Mach6 at $4600 (w/most parts from Rune) and Warden $3700 w/parts from Rune minus fork/wheels. Watcha think?
    Jon,

    I have said this before and I will say it again...you should have two bikes in your stable. Preferably, with really well built frames. For the amount of riding you do, and the stress caused by broken frames and parts, TWO working bikes for you!

    Which ones? I don't think you necessarily need carbon because you are scary fast on your big bike. If the carbon frame is really less prone to breaking then it could be a good call. The 5010c sounds like a fun bike with a short Pike up front, but I cannot believe they want $2900 for that frame. Fanatic in Bellingham has new Endorphin frames for $1700 plus shipping...(ad on Pinkbike classifieds)

    Or, you could add a hard tail into the mix using old parts from your Rune and build a new Mach 6 or Warden?

    We will also be hitting Sedona in mid March for a long weekend. For giggles, I reserved a Mach 6 for two days. I will have a better opinion about carbon and 27.5 after that. I did get a short ride on a Troy when they came out and immediately knew it wasn't for me. The only other FS bikes that really have my interest are the new Lenz Lunchbox 29 and Knolly Warden. Doubt I will do anything in that direction right now. I am still enjoying the Endorphin and Chilcotin combo.

    This is one hot thread Krob. I hope this isn't taking it off course too much.

    Bubba.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    Given the following assumptions which I know are correct from riding with you:

    - You're competent
    - You don't use travel as a crutch
    - You're not into fashion
    - You don't do koolaid
    - While a Knolly fanboy you do have that unusual trait of having an open mind

    and you said you don't want overlap

    Get either the Ripley or the Czar

    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    Sell Chilcotin. Buy uber nice Mach 6.

    You can only ride one bike at a time, unless your second bike is a specialty bike like a DH bike or full-fledged XC rocket, one killer endurotrailallmountainrally bike is the way to go.
    Ok. Lots of good advice here. And plenty of food for thought. These two concise statements pretty well sum up the two trains of thought that I'm favoring the most right now. Although I gotta say, I still can't quite get the Sight and Troy out of my mind either so maybe I'd rank them up there closer to the Mach 6 than I thought for that killer "endurotrailallmountainrally" bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    $ doesn't matter= M6 w/ heavy and light setups- coil x coil & wheels + air x air & wheels
    I dislike wrenching too much to go that route.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post

    This is one hot thread Krob. I hope this isn't taking it off course too much.

    Bubba.
    No, not at all. I think Jon and I have kinda the same question and very similar wants. And I value your opinion. Thanks for the input.
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