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  1. #51
    Axe
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    27.5 should be left for 650a. Now that we have 650b forks and frames, we can hand sew and fit 650a tires in them.

    Just the last step to the perfect optimum.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shocker View Post
    Or for the coffee addicts like myself, Tall, Grande & Venti.
    "Coffee addict" and Starbucks nomenclature do not mesh.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    27.5 should be left for 650a. Now that we have 650b forks and frames, we can hand sew and fit 650a tires in them.

    Just the last step to the perfect optimum.
    GREAT IDEA. Make it even MORE complicated and confusing.

    I'm, a 'Merican. Don't speak no metric. Don't need no fancy talking bike eleitist tellin' me bout no ISO, bsd, and other useless crap. Gimme an SAE Tape measure, same as the 26'ers and 29'ers use.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    "Coffee addict" and Starbucks nomenclature do not mesh.
    Ouch.
    Billy

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    ... Shredtopia!

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    650b is really old, something like 50-60 years. It was use in Europe for touring bikes so the the size comes from the rim diameter plus a larger touring tire. The rim size made a bit of a comeback in the late 80s/early 90s in the form of custom road bikes for small riders, women in particular. I don't know the exact dates but you get the general idea.
    DJ, are you sure about the comeback of 650B in the 80's/90's? The venue you're describing there strikes me as the 650C size that was really popular during that time frame for triathalon and small framed roadbikes. Trek even made some models with 650C wheels in their smaller framed roadbikes up to 2000 or thereabouts. Not that this is important, but it's an interesting trivia issue.

  6. #56
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    Yeah, Terry, Trek, Cannondale, TT bikes, Spec'd... 650c wheels were popular back in the 1990s on the road, not 650b.

    mk

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC View Post
    DJ, are you sure about the comeback of 650B in the 80's/90's? The venue you're describing there strikes me as the 650C size that was really popular during that time frame for triathalon and small framed roadbikes. Trek even made some models with 650C wheels in their smaller framed roadbikes up to 2000 or thereabouts. Not that this is important, but it's an interesting trivia issue.
    I thought they were but it sounds like I was wrong on that. It's not the first time.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    27.5 should be left for 650a. Now that we have 650b forks and frames, we can hand sew and fit 650a tires in them.

    Just the last step to the perfect optimum.
    I've been looking into the distant (or not-so-distant) future, and I'm planning a preemptive strike on the 650a movement. My wheel size will split the difference between 650b (584 BSD) and 650a (590 BSD) and be right at 587 BSD. A happy medium between the two.
    As for what letter I'll use to designate the size.....

    650d might be confusing and dangerous for dyslexics who might try mounting 650d tires onto 650b wheels, or vise versa.
    650e sounds too much like 650.
    650f sounds like a failing school grade, and would be the brunt of trolls' jokes.
    650g sounds too much like a monetary amount or a weight in grams, which could be confusing to people when they see the same thing on both wide and narrow tires.
    650h might look like 650b if there's a bit of mud on the tire.
    650i looks and sounds too much like a BMW. Oh wait.... that's because it is a BMW.
    650j looks too much like 650i.
    650k, again, sounds too much like a monetary amount.
    650l looks too much like six thousand, five hundred and one.
    650m looks and sounds right. The m will stand for medium, even though most people will presume it stands for mighty or magnificent. I might just make it a capital M.
    Okay, so that's it...... 650m, or 650M, with a 587 BSD.

    One of the nice things about my new wheel size is it will be compatible with practically all 650b and 650a frames and forks.
    To ride this trail is completely free.
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  9. #59
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    calling them 27.5 might bring sales up as new buyers will think "medium. cool. ill get that" which would then get companys to dump more money into it and more 27.5er frames will be made!

    sorry if something similar has been mentioned. didnt have time to read the thread.

  10. #60
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    Steve F,

    Thanks for the link to Sheldon Brown's tire sizing chart, i should have known to look there!

    I didn't expect a good answer to my thread, i am simply trying to make this new wheel size easier to understand, and sell because i think it is an excellent option for most riders out there.

    Krispy
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Why confuse the public? It is MUCH simpler and NOT inaccurate to to market the wheel as exactly halfway between 26" and 29", comparing apples to apples: OD measured in inches with tire mounted and inflated.
    My MAIN point, (do ALL CAPS help you understand better?) is that 650b is not exactly halfway between 26" and 29". It is closer to 26" than it is to 29".

    26x 2.3 larsen TT = 26.5"
    650bx 2.1 neomoto = 27.5"
    29x 2.2 ikon = 29.5"

    650b is 1" larger than 26". 29" is 2" larger than 650b. 650b is not exactly in the middle, it's much closer to 26".

    559mm = 56cm
    584mm = 58cm +2cm
    622mm= 62cm +4cm

    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Totally don't get that or agree. For over 20 years, the industry has dubbed the "regular" wheel size as 26" which is the outside diameter of the wheel with tire mounted and inflated measured in inches. Same with 29" for over 10 years. Nobody gave or gives a damn that certain tires make the wheels slightly taller or slighly shorter than the demonination.

    Now we have the in bewtween size, and people arguing that by using IDO/bsd metric measurements ( which NOBODY f'ing gets and which compares imperial apples to metric ISO oranges) the new wheel is closer to 26" than 29".
    I going to use those BSD numbers again to try to explain why 26" and 29" are confusing, as well.
    26" rim has bsd 559mm = 22.0" Wheels are 26" with a tire that is 2.0" from bead to tread.
    650b bsd 584mm = 23.0" Wheels are 27.5 with a tire that is 2.25"
    29" bsd 622mm = 24.5" Wheels are 29" with a tire that is 2.25"

    Maybe we should just change 26" to 26.5" to make it understandable. No, it make A LOT more sense to leave the traditional 26", 650b, 29" labels, but supplement them with the BSD. How does informing the customer on the ACTUAL diameter of their rims confuse them? This approach has been taken elsewhere in the industry. Initially supplementing the old school, confusing, but accepted terms, with new ones that are more descriptive. When was the last time you saw suspension travel or bar width measured in imperial? Top tube and eff top tube lengths are slowly making way for the more descriptive and accurate front center.

    How do car and motorcycles measure their wheels and tires? They state the actual rim size. And then the size of the tire. I don't think this would be such a hard transition...

    Here's what Sheldon Brown had to say on the subject:
    "As if bicycle tire sizing wasn't already confusing enough, wrong-headed marketeers have recently tried to popularize a fourth designation for the 584 mm tire size!

    They are trying to get people to call it "27 five." I strongly urge readers to resist this foolish jargon, and to use either the traditional "650B" designation, or, better yet, the internationally-standardized "584 mm" designation."
    650B (584 mm) Conversions for Road Bikes

  12. #62
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by thad View Post
    My MAIN point, (do ALL CAPS help you understand better?) is that 650b is not exactly halfway between 26" and 29". It is closer to 26" than it is to 29".
    It is APPROXIMATELY half-way.

    That is GOOD ENOUGH.

    P.S. I think it should be called 584bs. But - in my garage I have 12", 14", 16", 20", 24", 26", 29" wheels. Inch based naming convention is kind of stuck. It ain't no road bike.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It is APPROXIMATELY half-way.
    No, it is approximately a third of the way.....

    That is GOOD ENOUGH.

  14. #64
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by thad View Post
    No, it is approximately a third of the way.....

    That is GOOD ENOUGH.
    No, it is approximately half way. It is IN BETWEEN.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    No, it is approximately half way. It is IN BETWEEN.
    The difference between 29 and 26 is 622mm - 559mm = 63mm.

    1/3 larger is 21mm.
    1/2 larger is 31.5mm

    650b is 25mm bigger than 26". Is that closer to a third or a half?

    If you insist on being all vague about it: 650b is a little bit bigger than 26". 29" is quite a bit bigger than 650b.

  16. #66
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    27.5 is exactly in the middle AFAIC. . Which is why an Intense Tracer 275 could be my next bike. Because Intense is pretty much alone in adopting the SAE number. But before any of the engineers here jump ugly on them, they hedge a little by saying: "kinda in between maybe the best of both."
    That "kinda" gives them wiggle room if the ISO Inquisitors bring out the thumbscrews.

    650b « Engage
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC View Post
    DJ, are you sure about the comeback of 650B in the 80's/90's? The venue you're describing there strikes me as the 650C size that was really popular during that time frame for triathalon and small framed roadbikes. Trek even made some models with 650C wheels in their smaller framed roadbikes up to 2000 or thereabouts. Not that this is important, but it's an interesting trivia issue.

    IIRC, Raleigh and somebody else used 650b on a few mtn bike models in the early to mid 80s. Didn't really take off so they dropped the size. That was after Tom Ritchey experimented with the size.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

  18. #68
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by thad View Post
    650b is 25mm bigger than 26". Is that closer to a third or a half?

    If you insist on being all vague about it: 650b is a little bit bigger than 26". 29" is quite a bit bigger than 650b.
    It is even closer to 13/32.

    It is you who is being vague. 4.5% and 6.5% are NOT a "little bit" and a "quite a bit". That is silly to state it that way.

  19. #69
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    I bought a "Beasley" and really having a blast on it! I think the B will be a cool and endless play on words for years to come. (or-not). Like say a Specialized B-four, 4"travel. Kona Yawanabe. Cannondale behave. Santa Cruz b-groovy. Stupid but my point made. 27.5 suks bong water.

    Don't make me PM DC, I'll sick him on you B-otches.

  20. #70
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    I bet the people that decided to name it 650b are laughing at the guys arguing back and forth about the exact mathematical size of the wheel in this thread.

  21. #71
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    I bet the people that decided to name it 650b are laughing at the guys arguing back and forth about the exact mathematical size of the wheel in this thread.
    Those people are probably long dead.

    There is ISO 5775 standard. It should be named 584.


    Quote Originally Posted by ISO 5775
    The standard diameters of straight-side and crochet-type rims are:

    194, 203, 222, 239, 248, 251, 279, 288, 298, 305, 317, 330, 337, 340, 349, 355, 357, 369, 381, 387, 390, 400, 406, 419, 428, 432, 438, 440, 451, 484, 489, 490, 498, 501, 507, 520, 531, 534, 540, 541, 547, 559, 565, 571, 584, 590, 597, 609, 622, 630, 635, 642

  22. #72
    Axe
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    .. or, better yet, just call'em Medium.

    (Kids S-M-L are 16- 20-24). Adult S-M-L - 26 - 650b - 29.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    .. or, better yet, just call'em Medium.

    (Kids S-M-L are 16- 20-24). Adult S-M-L - 26 - 650b - 29.
    the bmx guys would be pissed if they had to buy kids tires!

  24. #74
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    28

    If we are going to go the SAE direction lets call it 28" which is about the size of the tires most will actually ride in a year or 2 when the product in development now hits. Trying to squeeze middy sized wheels in frames not designed for them will drop off dramatically and the tire makers will have pulled their heads and opened some molds, the sun will come out and the birds will sing the dark age of being forced to choose from only 2 sizes will have passed, hooraah. When comparing OD's, we should also be looking at the same tire cross section for each rim size and when that is taken into consideration a 2.35 Schwalbe is 713mm or so, depending on air pressure, humidity in the air, which day it was made blah blah blah. That number happens to be what the fork makers are figuring for mud and safety clearance as well, so I expect a plethora of choices in this diameter by the end of 2012. When the middle wheel size hits everyone smack in the forehead, my guess is that a vast majority will not be buying 2,1.s but 2.3/5s and therefore the OD will measure 28" OD. Why cant we give it a name instead of a number though? 26 as almost everyone in the last 20 years rides, does not measure 26, and as soon as the tire makers made more and more 29r tires the OD jumped, so lets come up with some new names?! Instead of Small for 20s we could call them Slash for their superior edge to edge handling.
    M for 26" as they are certainly still the Most common or al'most the right size. L for 28s, as in ? the Logical choice for mtb? I don't think the twenty niner riders will mind known as those turning XLs. Just a thought.

    DT

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by thad View Post
    650b is 1" larger than 26". 29" is 2" larger than 650b. 650b is not exactly in the middle, it's much closer to 26".

    559mm = 56cm
    584mm = 58cm +2cm
    622mm= 62cm +4cm
    This might be the best post yet. Intentionally rounding wrong to try and make your point.

    559 to 584 = 2.5cm (if you insist on even cm, then its 3, not 2)
    584 to 622 = 3.8cm

    So you're trying to make a 1.3cm (3.8 vs 2.5) difference into a 2cm (4 vs 2) difference with bad math. Good job.

  26. #76
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    If we are going to go the SAE direction lets call it 28" which is about the size of the tires most will actually ride in a year or 2 when the product in development now hits. Trying to squeeze middy sized wheels in frames not designed for them will drop off dramatically and the tire makers will have pulled their heads and opened some molds, the sun will come out and the birds will sing the dark age of being forced to choose from only 2 sizes will have passed, hooraah. When comparing OD's, we should also be looking at the same tire cross section for each rim size and when that is taken into consideration a 2.35 Schwalbe is 713mm or so, depending on air pressure, humidity in the air, which day it was made blah blah blah. That number happens to be what the fork makers are figuring for mud and safety clearance as well, so I expect a plethora of choices in this diameter by the end of 2012. When the middle wheel size hits everyone smack in the forehead, my guess is that a vast majority will not be buying 2,1.s but 2.3/5s and therefore the OD will measure 28" OD. Why cant we give it a name instead of a number though? 26 as almost everyone in the last 20 years rides, does not measure 26, and as soon as the tire makers made more and more 29r tires the OD jumped, so lets come up with some new names?! Instead of Small for 20s we could call them Slash for their superior edge to edge handling.
    M for 26" as they are certainly still the Most common or al'most the right size. L for 28s, as in ? the Logical choice for mtb? I don't think the twenty niner riders will mind known as those turning XLs. Just a thought.

    DT
    Mr. Turner: I'll believe you when I see a Sultan 28". What wheels and tires would you spec to get there?
    Last edited by dwt; 05-24-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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  27. #77
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    Well, since he mentioned 2.35 Schwalbe's, that would be a pretty good guess

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    If we are going to go the SAE direction lets call it 28" which is about the size of the tires most will actually ride in a year or 2 when the product in development now hits. Trying to squeeze middy sized wheels in frames not designed for them will drop off dramatically and the tire makers will have pulled their heads and opened some molds, the sun will come out and the birds will sing the dark age of being forced to choose from only 2 sizes will have passed, hooraah. When comparing OD's, we should also be looking at the same tire cross section for each rim size and when that is taken into consideration a 2.35 Schwalbe is 713mm or so, depending on air pressure, humidity in the air, which day it was made blah blah blah. That number happens to be what the fork makers are figuring for mud and safety clearance as well, so I expect a plethora of choices in this diameter by the end of 2012. When the middle wheel size hits everyone smack in the forehead, my guess is that a vast majority will not be buying 2,1.s but 2.3/5s and therefore the OD will measure 28" OD. Why cant we give it a name instead of a number though? 26 as almost everyone in the last 20 years rides, does not measure 26, and as soon as the tire makers made more and more 29r tires the OD jumped, so lets come up with some new names?! Instead of Small for 20s we could call them Slash for their superior edge to edge handling.
    M for 26" as they are certainly still the Most common or al'most the right size. L for 28s, as in ? the Logical choice for mtb? I don't think the twenty niner riders will mind known as those turning XLs. Just a thought.

    DT
    I could live with 28 or "L". Ironically, I think that's what Wes Williams was shooting for (28") when he started building mountain bikes with 700c rims.

    Cheers,
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    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  29. #79
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    This thread banter has become an interesting 650b vs 27.5 discussion. And entertaining !

    Really loved the rounding wrong and then arguing your point. Spot on from mobaar.

    and by far the best from jimboho :
    "Don't make me PM DC, I'll sick him on you B-otches"

    FWIW - Stick with the 650b. And forget the comparison to those 29er wagon wheels !

  30. #80
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    Please no 28". For the same reason as no 27". It already exists. Still a lot of Euro's (Germans?) calling 700c 28", and then the Belgian's calling 635 BSD 28" too. We definitely don't need a 3rd 28" label.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfruits View Post
    the bmx guys would be pissed if they had to buy kids tires!
    Is it a bad thing?

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Mr. Turner: i'll beieve you when I see a Sultan 28". What where's and tires would you spec to get there?
    Kirk Pacenti's 650b Mega-moto tires are 28", currently in prototype testing now.

    Yes with 28" maxi volume 650b tires, frame designers could continue to offer 2 frame types. Tweaked slightly if any, one long chain-stay frame type for fitting both 650b wheels and 28"max size tires or common 29'er wheels and tires, and another compact frame type for fitting both current 26" wheels and tires and smaller volume 650b wheels and tires, already well proven for 5 years now to work excellently in the same "26" inch frames converted to 650b. More choices for more riding conditions.

    IMO, Kirk Pacenti nailed the Tail/AM rim and tire size combo for 650b (23"/584mm) rims right out of the box in 2007 for use in some compact nimble handling "26" inch frames with his pioneering 650b mountain bike tire, the 2.3 Neo-moto. Not heavy, very durable, easy rolling, and high grip predictable handling. Works great from Moab and Arizona's rocks, Oregon rain forest loam, to SoCal's packed sandy dirt.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobaar View Post
    Please no 28". For the same reason as no 27". It already exists. Still a lot of Euro's (Germans?) calling 700c 28", and then the Belgian's calling 635 BSD 28" too. We definitely don't need a 3rd 28" label.
    Correct. Which is another reason to stck with SAE when measuring wheel size and not bringing ISO in at all. This is not an argument against metric. It's just avoid confusion. I have no problem describing my bike as having 27.5" wheels, 140mm of travel, and weighing 29 lbs. I do have problem with the argument that my wheels slightly less or slightly more than halfway between the other two wheel sizes. A logical and fact based Argument ccan be made that ether are exactly halfway between.


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    OH, for Christsakes...

    I just read the latest MBA FS wheels size ad, I mean shootout between KHS bikes and they have started referring to it as (cringe) "Killer B".

    For the love of God, was "Black Diamond bikes" not bad enough?

    Can we accept the metric system?


    Why do I keep reading this rag?

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    MBA


    Why do I keep reading this rag?
    Good question
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    I just read the latest MBA FS wheels size ad, I mean shootout between KHS bikes and they have started referring to it as (cringe) "Killer B".

    For the love of God, was "Black Diamond bikes" not bad enough?

    Can we accept the metric system?


    Why do I keep reading this rag?
    No idea. I accept imperial measures for things where it is well established - frame sizing for example. But quoting component weight in ounces is borderline asinine. Nobody weights their tires in ounces.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by thad View Post
    My suggestion would be to call it by the actual rim size, rounded to cm.
    56cm =26", 58cm = 650b , 62cm = 29"

    26 and 29 are totally arbitrary numbers. I just measured my bikes
    26X 2.35 larsen TT = 26.5"
    26X 2.5 minion dhf = 27"
    29X 2.2 ikon = 29.5"
    29X 2.4 ardent = 29.75"
    Then the actual rim sizes are 22", 23", and 24.5" rounded to the nearest half inch.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Wizard View Post
    I'm wondering what year in the distant (or not so distant) future the 650a (590 BSD) movement will happen.

    Kirk Pacenti mentioned he considered going the 650a route, but ultimately went with 650b for various reasons.
    I'm thinking he went with 650b because 650a sounds too Canadian.

    How about we use a secret lingo code name for 650b, named after the county that uses area code 650, which is San Mateo County, which also happens to be where Tom Ritchey resides, which also happens to be where Ritchey built 650b mountain bikes in the late 70s or early 80s, before the Russian army bought up the Hakka tire supply. And now, Ritchey is working on his own 650b tires and wheels, so things are coming full-circle..... just like a wheel.

    So, how 'bout we start calling them San Mateos?

    Or how about b'ers (pronounced beers)?

    Also, 2013 will be a rather banner year for 650b, and if you squish the 1 and the 3 close together, it looks like a B? So, there's been twenty-sixers, twenty-niners, and now twenty-B'ers (20B / 2013). Twenty beers? That's a lot of beers, eh? That reminds me of the time that I found a mouse in a bottle of beer, eh?
    So, maybe they could also be referred to as 20B. Or 65013.

    Oh, and here's the Canadian skit from Family Guy, eh?
    Family Guy - AA eh High Quality HD - YouTube

    Bonus Strange Brew video:
    Strange Brew - mouse in a bottle - YouTube
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    That's funny shyt right there.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  39. #89
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    How about Tweener? Fits right in there.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

  40. #90
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    This exchange nails it AFAIC:


    Q.: Mountain Bike Mag:

    The term “650b” is an established standard going back decades, and 27.5-inch, while descriptive and fitting within the 26-inch and 29er naming convention, is sort of a made-up standard. Which one do you think the industry should adopt?

    A:Scott Sports marketing director Adrian Montgomery:

    In this crazy mix up of standards I think we should look ahead to the potential buyers and the retail conversation and continue with the same units of measurement for the entire MTB category. Inches. Period. 26, 27.5, 29—these are all the same unit of measure. Don’t start skipping back and forth between European units that are comfortable in road bikes. This would create a larger problem like convincing the U.S. to adopt the metric system. I’m kidding…but seriously.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    .. or, better yet, just call'em Medium.
    I'll go with that.

  42. #92
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    I'll go with that.
    This Forum "owns" the brand. let's vote on the nominations and let the bike industry know. In deference to American Intense and Euro Scott, I nominate "twenty seven fifty" or "twoseven point five" or even "twoseven dot five. If Scott agrees to steer clear ofroadie ISO, who are a bunch of Yanks to argue for Sixfiddy?
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    This Forum "owns" the brand. let's vote on the nominations and let the bike industry know. In deference to American Intense and Euro Scott, I nominate "twenty seven fifty" or "twoseven point five" or even "twoseven dot five. If Scott agrees to steer clear ofroadie ISO, who are a bunch of Yanks to argue for Sixfiddy?
    To be honest, I do expect that 26" wheels will go the way of 1" headsets. 650b fits long travel frames and small full suspension frames with much less troubles than 29r, and even 29rs can be made to work there. And they should be stiff enough for DH. Well, I guess the double ply 3lb+ tires, direct mount stem bikes will still want 26" (or 24" rear).

    But it does seem to me that 27.5 naming is inevitable for MTB tires. Too bad, should have reserved that to 650a.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    But it does seem to me that 27.5 naming is inevitable for MTB tires.
    Please someone tell Schwalbe that naming theirs 27 1/2" is creative but it makes them harder to find using search at retailers' sites.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Please someone tell Schwalbe that naming theirs 27 1/2" is creative but it makes them harder to find using search at retailers' sites.
    Well, if we follow SAE style, 27 1/2" is appropriate, is not it?

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Well, if we follow SAE style, 27 1/2" is appropriate, is not it?
    I do not care about styles that much.

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    How about 27ish

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I do not care about styles that much.
    It is all about style, man. All about style. And ease.

    Steeze, if you may.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    and they have started referring to it as (cringe) "Killer B".
    In the made-for-TV movie about mountain bike wheels, DC will be played by Nicolas Cage. This video showcases what some, most, or all of DC's scenes will sound like:

    Not the Bees - YouTube

    As it has been mentioned before, it's a lot easier to do a search for 650b than it is to look for 27.5" or 28" tires or wheels, without having to enter 27.5" mountain bike wheels or 27.5" mountain bike tires (or 28" mountain bike tires or wheels, for that matter) in the Google search bar, or whatever site you're searching through. Designating it 650b is like having a Fastpass at Disneyland when it comes to searching for content on the internet.
    Calling the format 27.5" or 28" inch doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering different tire widths will yield different diameters.
    Sometimes they're 27.5", sometimes they're 28", sometimes they're somewhere in between, and sometimes perhaps a bit more than 28".

    As far as the comments and complaints about the BSD not being in the middle, exactly between 559 and 622, I think Kirk chose well by going with what it is. Bigger tires will yield bigger diameters, and in my opinion, it's better to err on the slightly smaller side, otherwise you'd be getting just too close to the size of 29ers if 590 BSD is coupled with big tires. 29ers have their place for certain applications. Going with 584 BSD was smart.

    If tire manufacturers want to also include an approximate diameter of the inflated tire on an average width rim, which could be embossed or printed on the tire next to the width of the tire, that could be an option. Using a ~ sign next to the diameter might be useful in case it's not exact and people start complaining. If we go the 27.5" or 28" inch route, people will complain (or have to explain) that it's actually 28", or it's actually 27.5", or whatever may be the case.
    650b is a good name designation for the general wheel/rim size. If people want to call it 27.5" or 28", then that's probably because those people will primarily be using either 27.5" or 28" diameter tires, but not both. The recent tire poll showed that there will be a wide variety of tire widths being used. 650b covers the entire spectrum. The cross country folks shouldn't have to explain to others "they're called 28" wheels, but they're really 27.5" ", and the folks with the bigger/wider tires shouldn't have to explain to others "they're called 27.5" wheels, but they actually measure 28". "

    If people are worried about educating folks who walk into bike shops, it's fairly easy to tell them that the bigger tires will be about 28", and the smaller tires will be about 27.5". And no, I don't think we should average it out by calling them 27.75"ers.

    Plus, 650b has a nice exotic and scientific look to it. Very refined.
    To ride this trail is completely free.
    Just show me a triangle..... make it three!

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It is all about style, man. All about style. And ease.

    Steeze, if you may.
    Yep. We need a simple brand that does not require you to remember if .5" is to be typed as .5 or 1/2 and if you need to add inches or " or what. We do not have to be following established standards, heck 650b is about breaking stereotypes, is not it. I want one brand that when searched for, yields all products related to this wheel size available - frames, forks, tires, rims, inner tubes, (, stems ), stickers, MTB magazines.

    I still like 650b the best. Add a hash mark to represent MTB tracks in mud and to make it hip and we are done!

    #650b FTW!

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