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  1. #1
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    Bronson or Pivot M6?

    Bronson or Pivot M6?-bronson-pv6.jpg

    Looking for do it all bike: Bike parks, trails, epic ride, XC, heli-ride, enduro...am I asking too much? lol!

    Bronson (HTA: 67 deg) vs Pivot Mach 6 (HTA: 66 deg). Which one?

    I am currently riding 2011 Nomad Carbon.

  2. #2
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    I went with Mach 6 currently have a Carbine,but have owned several Santa Cruzes.having owned a Ibis Mojo SL before Carbine I got to know the DW link and can say that the VPP wore out it's welcome for me for the square hit rocky terrain I mostly ride and in just about all other trail conditions,also demoed a 5.7 Carbon and that clinched the deal.each to his own but the slacker HD angle and geometry is a better fit for a large for me.

  3. #3
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    The Bronson is already small, the reach on the Mach 6 is even shorter. Bummer, as I was looking forward to trying the Mach 6.

  4. #4
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    Try them out if you can. I'd gotten off the VPP bus, like techfersure, but I rode the Bronson and can say, without a question of a doubt, that you are NOT asking too much from that bike! Super impressed - what really REALLY surprised me was how well it jumps and corners even in tight situations. Can't wait to try the Mach 6! In the end tho I may end up with the Devinci Troy: Devinci's New 650B Troy - First Look - Pinkbike
    Stevie Smith just killed it winning the Whistler DH Air race yesterday on one. So much for all the 650b naysayers saying there aren't any podiums with 650b's!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 08-16-2013 at 10:25 AM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  5. #5
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    Good job! Add the HD-R to the list...

    Quote Originally Posted by chris9888 View Post
    Looking for do it all bike: Bike parks, trails, epic ride, XC, heli-ride, enduro...am I asking too much? lol!

    I am currently riding 2011 Nomad Carbon.
    IMO I'd add the HDR, mostly because I've also made the move from VPP to DW-Link and am much happier for it. The HD has been the best riding bike I've ever owned, and I've just it just the way you describe: for EVERYTHING.

    The HD-R is just crazy versatile and I plan on setting my up with both 650b & 26 for bigger days.
    - -benja- -

  6. #6
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    Re: Bronson or Pivot M6?

    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    IMO I'd add the HDR, mostly because I've also made the move from VPP to DW-Link and am much happier for it. The HD has been the best riding bike I've ever owned, and I've just it just the way you describe: for EVERYTHING.

    The HD-R is just crazy versatile and I plan on setting my up with both 650b & 26 for bigger days.
    HDr doesn't have enough tire clearance for bigger rubber like Hans Dampf 2.35.. HDR or Bronson???

  7. #7
    meow meow
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    is the m6 out yet?

  8. #8
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    Nope,but hopefully mine will come in soon,I got in on early release.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by techfersure View Post
    Nope,but hopefully mine will come in soon,I got in on early release.
    yeah, lucky guy for the nice package you got too.

    I have both an HD 160 26" and a TRc 650b'd. I prefer the pedal action and suspension feel of DW link. The HDr I feel is short of what it really should have been. It's a 6lb frame with only 130mm travel.

    I'm hoping for a Mach 6 myself but the hefty price will keep me away for awhile. Otherwise, it's got a great geo. And if it weighs under 5.5lbs, a great frame with 160mm travel.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  10. #10
    Missouri sucks...
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    DW Link > VPP

  11. #11
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    I'd really like to try the M6. I've ridden the Bronson and liked it but the chainstays definitely felt long. It was more work to loft the front end than I like. This may be a non-issue for you coming from a Nomad.

    Quite honestly, I demand better suspension from bikes in this price range. The CTD rear shock on the Bronson is crap. The float X may be better but I wouldn't plunk down my money to find out. The 34s on both bikes are garbage. OEMs need to demand more from the suspension manufacturers, Fox in particular.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris9888 View Post
    I am currently riding 2011 Nomad Carbon.
    Keep your Nomad!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    DW Link > VPP
    Typically I'd agree but that's not the case with the Bronson - at least that's what I found because it rides far better than any other VPP bike I've been on (and I've ridden and owned plenty, I can assure you). Anyone else have that experience? I don't know how to explain it but the geometry and linkage placement just seem to really work on the Bronson. Can't be all just the wheel size can it?

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  14. #14
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    Another of the big +s for the Mach 6 is the shock eye to eye. You can fit many other shocks since it's a common size at 8.5x2.5. I can use my sweet Pushed Monarch from my current HD.

    And yes, the Float X looks very promising with the reservoir for cooling the oil more efficiently.

    It all comes down to what you can afford, what suspension you like or how you like the ride, and sizing. For me the Bronson is too smalll or too big. The Mach is nearly a perfect fit, on paper at least. But the Mach 6 is $$. So then I'll be on neither. Ha.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  15. #15
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    I demoed both and prefer the Mach 6 based on the suspension and set up. I agree on the forks, I am buying a frame only and will probably put the Pike or Slant on it and spec it out with XX1. I can build a full XX1 set up with the exact components I want for close to $1500 less than retail and not pay the tax on everything.

  16. #16
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    Go with the Pivot. More travel, DW Link and Pivots are excellent climbers. Demo both before buying. I think you may find that the Pivot is more all mountain. I'm waiting for the New 650b HD with 160 mm. My converted 650b HD has 155mm rear and 160mm front. I'm running the Hans Damph up front. The HD is plusher but does not climb as well. I agree with the others ditch the Fox fork and go with the new Pike.

  17. #17
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    Nice. Did you ride it with a Float X - if so how was it? Who are you buying the frame from?

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    I demoed both and prefer the Mach 6 based on the suspension and set up. I agree on the forks, I am buying a frame only and will probably put the Pike or Slant on it and spec it out with XX1. I can build a full XX1 set up with the exact components I want for close to $1500 less than retail and not pay the tax on everything.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  18. #18
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    I'm wondering the same thing
    We Ride In God's Country!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    Nice. Did you ride it with a Float X - if so how was it? Who are you buying the frame from?
    It really boiled down to the frame shock and the DW Link on the Mach 6, along with the better geometry for me. Coming from an RP23, it felt great, but I only rode it for about 20 minutes or so. I am sure the suspension design had more to do with it than the shock, but I would definitely take that shock over the CTD.

    I am buying from a local Pivot dealership in Seattle.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyman View Post
    Go with the Pivot. More travel, DW Link and Pivots are excellent climbers. Demo both before buying. I think you may find that the Pivot is more all mountain. I'm waiting for the New 650b HD with 160 mm. My converted 650b HD has 155mm rear and 160mm front. I'm running the Hans Damph up front. The HD is plusher but does not climb as well. I agree with the others ditch the Fox fork and go with the new Pike.
    Is your HD a conversion from Bikeco or you did it yourself? I was thinking of an HD 650b if they came out with one. It looks like it might be awhile before they make a true 160mm 650b HD since the HDR seems to be selling well.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  21. #21
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    I am wondering if those longer chainstays on the Bronson will make it climb better than the Mach 6. I definitely need something that climbs well.

    I was initially concerned the bronson had too long of chain stays to make it playful enough. But now I am concerned about having too short of chain stays. oh boy...

    then theres the seat angle...

  22. #22
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    Re: Bronson or Pivot M6?

    I was initially concerned the bronson had too long of chain stays to make it playful enough. But now I am concerned about having too short of chain stays. oh boy...

    then theres the seat angle...[/QUOTE]

    Haha, I hear you... My thoughts, exactly.

  23. #23
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    I'm a big fan of short stays so I'd written off the Bronson... that was before I rode one! You don't notice the longer stays (because of wheel diameter?) and I asked the owner and he said the same thing. The seat angle is spot on for climbing too so I think you're on to something. The reviews for the climbing ability of the Mach 6 aren't exactly glowing which probably does have to do with the shorter stays and full angle slacker HTA. I can tell you the Bronson would be very tough to beat in an uphill sprint! FWIW I'm down to these two frames now too - I don't think you can go wrong either way. I really like the shock and DW suspension on the Mach but the climbing and cost and weight all seem to favor the Bronson. I'll probably just buy the one that fits me best with a short stem!

    Cheers,

    G
    Last edited by Gman086; 08-21-2013 at 09:08 PM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  24. #24
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    Good input from those who've demoed both. I haven't ridden either but hope to remedy that soon (will probably ride a Remedy too ) at Interbike. Got a whole slew of 27.5 and new 29er bikes on my dance card. This should be fun.

    Just looking at the pictures and the angles it appears the Mach 6 would excel downhill (slacker HA and STA, longer travel) assuming Chris C. will spec a dw curve that favors plushness over anti-squat (which is something he seems relunctant to do for some reason).

    The Bronson looks more upright and balanced/compromised? (again just looking at the pictures and comparing angles) for up and down riding with the steeper STA and longer stays. VPP used to be a minus for tech/square edge climbing but the VPP2 and bigger wheels seem to fix that according to reports.

    I'm excited to compare them back to back.
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  25. #25
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    I can assure you that VPP2 is still a minus on tech/climbing especially at a good pace,my only complaint with design,you have to focus a adapt on the fly and can be distracting.

  26. #26
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    Tested Bronson during SC demo day. Was not my favorite bike for some reason. I Like Nomad more from SC line.
    Sizing is typical SC. I'm 5"9 and large feels much better for me. Tried medium Bronson and felt totally cramped on climbs. Medium Pivots fit me like a glove : both Mach 5.7 and Firebird.
    SO Bronson with enve wheels didn't feel very snappy and maneuverable to me. It did not climb technical new England trails well enough for me to consider the bike. I ride Mach 5.7 and it is no comparison. Pivot is build pretty burly and probably weighs more then Bronson and it was more snappy, lively and flies up technical climbs (Lynn Woods, Harold Parker). With burly build 5.7 is great on downhills and drops (5=7'). I use the same HR 2 2.4 tires as were on Bronson.
    I suspect Mach 6 would be closer to 5.7 and would be my choice. I have to demo it to give better review. Out of 27.5 bikes my favorites were (after good demo days)
    Intense carbine 275
    Pivot Firebird 275
    but none of them were good enough to replace my 5.7. maybe Mach 6 is ...

  27. #27
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    I always wonder what "technical" means to different folks. I ride in Arizona where our trails are fairly gnarly in my estimation. Krob has ridden here a bit and in a wider variety of spots than I have.

    That said, for truly technical non-shuttled riding in big rocks, my Mach 5.7 was the worst bike I've ever owned. My Bronson is my first VPP bike (not counting my M9, which I don't pedal) and I've found it to be a very good technical climber and a ridiculous descender.

    Still, the M6 looks awesome and I'd love to take a spin on one.

  28. #28
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    Bike feel is pretty tough to explain especially in high end bikes that are so good that you are describing nuances. It is so funny that I liked Intense carbine - VPP bike but not Bronson and still prefer 5.7 to both of them.. My be I was feeling off that day ..
    But I guess it all boils down to just personal preference. Here is the sample of the terrain we call technical in NE

    Lynn Woods Kick Off 2010 - YouTube

    Lynn Woods rollers and drops - YouTube

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I always wonder what "technical" means to different folks. I ride in Arizona where our trails are fairly gnarly in my estimation. Krob has ridden here a bit and in a wider variety of spots than I have.

    That said, for truly technical non-shuttled riding in big rocks, my Mach 5.7 was the worst bike I've ever owned. My Bronson is my first VPP bike (not counting my M9, which I don't pedal) and I've found it to be a very good technical climber and a ridiculous descender.

    Still, the M6 looks awesome and I'd love to take a spin on one.
    One thing I'll say about about the VPP (at least the only one I have significant time on which was my 2006 6.6): It feels very open and active on rough descents. Deep and bottomless are words that come to mind. I've noticed a similar feel on shorter test rides with the Tracer, Tracer 29er, and Carbine 275.
    I've never gotten that same feeling on any dw link bike that wasn't a full-on down hill bike (IH Sunday, Turner DHR), but my 5 spot was the closest.

    The last ride I had on a FB was pretty good in this regard (better than previous experiences) but I'm still skeptical.

    As far as tech climbing, yes, climbing National or Mormon 24th st or Kiwannis on South Mountain i Phoenix as you describe is exactly what I have in mind.

    FWIW the Four x 4 knolly suspension rules on this sort of stuff.

    My old 6.6 with v.1 VPP had some annoying pedal kickback on square edge climbs especially in the granny. I haven't noticed it as much on the VPP v.2 bikes I've ridden, but adimittedly we don't do a ton of climbing when at Interbike. Just enough to get a flavor for how the bike does.
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  30. #30
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    Pivot is close to that National trail in AZ.. I believe that's where they test their bikes as well... That is some good technical terrain by any standards


  31. #31
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    Yes. That's my home trail. That would typically be considered a "moderate" technical trail here locally.

  32. #32
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    I still say it all comes down to what you like. Some like VPP, some prefer DW. It's all about the seat-of-the-pants feel and what floats your boat. After that, it's sizing, geo, weight, costs. You just have to test ride them both on the same trail for fair comparison.

    For me, on paper the Mach 6 looks great but its the price that will make me wait for now.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  33. #33
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    I think it is important to understand that modern VPP is nothing like the a few years ago and actually has very little if anything to do with the VPP patent. Most people are basing their opinions on rides from 5 years ago. Take this from someone who rides DW exclusively (Mojo HD). Just want to make sure that everyone is clear on the changes to VPP.

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