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To b or not to b?

3K views 34 replies 16 participants last post by  JMac47 
#1 ·
Hello everyone. I'm getting ready to purchase another bike and am a little unsure of what to buy. I love the way 26er's handle and the playfulness of them. I do own a 29er hardtail but that's another story. For a f/s trailbike I just wanna have fun. I am interested in a 27.5, but I don't wanna lose any of the fun factor. I know it will roll better and thats great, but will it be sluggish to the point where I'll lose any of the playfulness? Any suggestions?
 
#25 ·
DWT, take a break from MTBR for a week or two. I'm serious. You need to get a bit less emotionally involved in this, you're coming across as a crazy person and I know you're not - so go do something else for a while.

Also, FWIW not *every* post needs to have an image attached to it.

-Walt
 
#26 ·
Actually I really am nuts, and going stir crazy as well.

Out of respect for you, I'll sit tight till spring.

But I still love memes.

Cya

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#3 ·
You won't lose any fun factor at all. Been riding 26" for 18 years and didn't like the 29ers because of that reason. I don't notice any less playfulness or agility in two bikes now, Firebird and Carbine, but in the Desert SW terrain the roll over advantage is huge.

If you live in the Midwest and ride groomed trails all the time, you may not see the advantage.
 
#4 ·
If you want to have fun and you already have a 29er, please avoid a bike like the Jamis Dakar. It's a very run-of-the-mill XC platform. Steep head angle, long stays, relatively shorter travel.

I'd probably suggest something a bit bigger. Turner Burner, Norco Range, Banshee Rune, etc. Something big travel and slack, but can still pedal uphill.

At the very least you could sell a bigger bike quicker than an XC bike.
 
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#6 ·
Having said that, the size btwn 26 and 650b is so close I can honestly say that 650b doesn't really roll over obstacles much better than 26, and back to back I can feel the 650b be slower through twisty trails...less flickable too.
You do realise that this makes no sense? How can the wheels be so close that 650b does NOT have better rollover than 26, but IS slower and less flickable? That's a logical contradiction.

In truth, 650b wheels are bigger than 26" (how much bigger is an old and tired debate) and therefore by definition have a larger angle of approach and better rollover. The penalties for bigger are heavier, less stiff and less flickable. The differences between 26" and 27.5" are far less dramatic than 29", but exist in fact.

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#18 ·
I've had similar experiences (keep in mind I'm quite tall and my trails here are 29" heaven) to Sal - when I ride 650b bikes, they just basically feel like 26" to me. YMMV, of course. There are definitely benefits to larger wheels for almost anyone, but I wouldn't rush out to buy the latest 650b offering if you've got a 26 or 29" wheel setup that you like.

Heck, I build and get to test ride a TON of bikes. You would be shocked what you can't detect in terms of bike setup by riding - a full degree of head tube angle, for example, is actually below the threshold of detectability for many people. 10-15mm of wheel radius is not going to be noticeable to some riders unless they're expecting to feel a difference - but that's not to say it's not worthwhile.

-Walt
 
#22 · (Edited)
I've had similar experiences (keep in mind I'm quite tall and my trails here are 29" heaven) to Sal - when I ride 650b bikes, they just basically feel like 26" to me. YMMV, of course.
27.5" bikes feel like 27.5" bikes to me; BOTH in terms of better rollover than 26"; AND slightly less nimble. Not the good part only and NOT the bad part only like Sal.

There are definitely benefits to larger wheels for almost anyone, but I wouldn't rush out to buy the latest 650b offering if you've got a 26 or 29" wheel setup that you like.
Nor would I or anyone I can think of.

Heck, I build and get to test ride a TON of bikes. You would be shocked what you can't detect in terms of bike setup by riding - a full degree of head tube angle, for example, is actually below the threshold of detectability for many people. 10-15mm of wheel radius is not going to be noticeable to some riders unless they're expecting to feel a difference - but that's not to say it's not worthwhile.
My mileage is this. I went from 26 to demoing 29. I was hooked on the rollover immediately, and had no trouble adjusting to wheelbase or any other supposed handling disadvantaged. But it was heavy.

I did not have the coin for a new bike, so converted a 26 HT to 27.5" (built the wheels personally). Guess what? It does not roll like a 29", but still rolls noticeably better than 26". Going back and forth between the 3 bikes, the middle size was the preferred one overall for me. So I bought one if those closeout Jamis B2's for cheap, and love it.

PS. bought Works 1.5 deg angleset for the hell of it, and reduced my HTA from 69 to 67.5. Obvious difference, up (wandering front wheel on steep climb) and down. Not even sure I'm happy. Must have been that extra .5 deg, eh?
 
#19 ·
I've started riding a 27.5 and had your same concerns. Never been on a 29er, and my riding is all about fun and playing (airtime! techy, etc.). I own 6", 7" and 8" 26ers and haven't bought a new bike since 08. Decided to give the 27.5 a try, first ride was different for sure but after a few I'm loving it. Faster, I like going faster with less effort, and feeling better every ride about jumping with it. Haven't yet tabled it, but doing tabletops on my 6" bike is easier than my 7" and DH bike anyway so I'm used to that. Tight slow techy has been no big deal. I say no loss in playfulness and I'd even call it an increase because I'm carrying more speed. It's really made xc type riding tons more fun for me.
 
#20 ·
650b is absolutely great, maybe. It all depends on the bike and the rider. That's great if you rode it and loved it or rode it and hated it. Feel free to have your opinion. Don't expect that people will take your opinion as gospel though.

My 650b experience has been nothing but good. My bike is a converted 2009 Trek 8500 26er hardtail with a 26er Fox G2 offset 120mm fork. I have ridden the bike with both 650b and 26 and the bike was vastly improved with the 650b wheels.

It was a great bike to begin with, but it really isn't the best climbing bike with 26er wheels. I'm not sure how much the fork had to do with that. The stock fork was a 100mm Fox without the G2 offset crown. The steering with 26er wheels is very fast and the bike is very agile especially at 100mm travel. It becomes much more natural and smooth with 650b and at 120mm it is smooth and plush. The bike climbs a lot better too. The climbing feels easier and the bike is easier to control while climbing. The front would want to wander a lot more and not easily go straight. It feels like it's much easier to climb with more like my 29er, and it says straight easily. Absolutely descends better. It tracks better and rolls smoother.

Someone though could ride my bike and say it's terrible and handles terrible though. It started really as a race bike and it rides more like a trail bike with 650b and 120mm travel. I'm sure there are conversions that ride terrible though as some bikes are terrible to begin with.
 
#24 ·
I have a nice new 650b bike and after spending a bit of quality time with it, I can say that it handles in twisty singletrack in the woods (my absolute favorite type of riding), for me, better than comparative bikes of either larger or smaller wheel sizes. The front wheel feels a bit harder to loft than my 26er, but far easier than the 29er. I was a bit surprised at that actually, as the wheels are super light and I expected it to lift about the same as the 26er. It rolls really nicely; you have a sense of momentum, but do not feel like a passenger as I have felt on a 29er, and can still handle and accelerate with a lot of snap. The bike is very lively indeed, perhaps due to old school, "steep" XC geometry. The 29er I get to ride, in terms of absolute timed performance over a given stretch of trail, is about the same, but is not as much fun. I do like that roll-over-everything quality though, and wouldn't mind having a really nice 29er fall into my garage. So all in all the wheel size on this bike is as advertised: a fun, comfortable middle ground that works well for everything from short road rides around my neighborhood to hitting the dark, twisted Pacific NW singletrack. Now all that is left is to beef-up the old motor. Or tofu-up, given my tree-hugging diet.
 
#27 ·
Chill time

Ok, reading all this has been pretty dam funny actually but DWT...man you need to get out riding, skiing, or um...get laid I think. Your posts do really crack me up I'll admit (and I do enjoy the meme's but ok, that was a low blow calling someone DC. You are a bad boy so a timeout is needed :nono:

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#30 ·
Ok, reading all this has been pretty dam funny actually but DWT...man you need to get out riding, skiing, or um...get laid I think. Your posts do really crack me up I'll admit (and I do enjoy the meme's but ok, that was a low blow calling someone DC. You are a bad boy so a timeout is needed
All three, plus Twitter has helped make me meaner, more obnoxious and more aggressive. Freaking zoo there.

So I will wait for spring and getting back to riding MY 650b TRAIL BIKE, WITH TUBELESS TIRES, CLIPLESS PEDALS AND SLACK HTA ( did I miss any controversial topics?) before coming back to mtbr forums. :)

Cya

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#28 ·
Phuuuuuuuuuuuque! Stop Bia##%ing and enjoy your Darn (er) ride! The best thing about Mtn. Biking for me (over 30 f-ing years. Thank God. Or whatever) is that EVERY TIME I ride, I am shot back to being 13 yrs old and living FOR REAL. Period. 26" was great, didn't care for 29" (where I live) and love the 27" bikes. Usually ride wide one of each size. Eh.
 
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#31 ·
Yeah, I saw that about the Jamis Dakar. HA is 69 degrees, stays are 17.7" and travel is 130mm F/B so you can say those things are correct about it compared to the newer B bikes being rolled out. Run of the mill not so fast. Does a bike have to have a 67.5 degree or less HA, 150mm or more travel and really short stays or it's run of the mill? The #'s defy how good the Jamis bike is. Really it's a wonderful and fun trail bike that is extremely competent for what it's intended for and that's to be a nice trail bike. Not an AM or Enduro bike and not a XC racy type bike, just a good trail bike (or have we forgotten that segment?). For plenty of the terrain and riders in the US it's realistically more than sufficient IMHO.
 
#33 ·
All three, plus Twitter has helped make me meaner, more obnoxious and more aggressive. Freaking zoo there.
Twitter...can't be bothered, nor FB for that matter. I spend to much time here as it is and my dirt bike forums. Social media is so crazy out of control it's disturbing for this 55YO old guy.
 
#34 ·
I converted my 26" hardtail to 650b and wouldn't go back. It's not a momentus change but that's kind of the point for me. It's the slight tweaks of setup and parts changes that on their own don't add up to a lot, but when taken as a whole amount to much more. And the slightly larger wheel size is just one of those small tweaks in a long list. One thing I find interesting in the debate is one of tire size. I see so many statements made, especially with 26" conversions that are tight for space, that try to negate the effectiveness of the 27.5" wheel with a 2.1" tire compared to a 26" wheel with a 2.3 or whatever larger tire in that the outside diameter remains unchanged. What you don't see a lot in these debates are those of us that used 2.1 (or smaller) tires on our 26" wheels, and continue to do so on the 27.5" wheel.
 
#35 ·
Well said. Some like the characturistics of running a 2.1 for the type of riding they may do, others bump it up abit and run 2.3-2.4's or whatever can be crambed into their frame for the burlier side of riding. Both setups have their benefits/limitations depending on what/how/where you ride. Subtle changes of parts in general i.e. change to little wider or riser bars, different stem, tires, rotor size etc. on ones 26" bike add up to an overall change in ride quality or feel. Are they "needed"? Not really. Would it still pedal without the upgrades or changes? Of course. Does one enhance their ride from it? To each their own I say.

I agree at times the nay sayers like to "zero in" taking on a personal defense stance and micro-critique others on their choice of certain components, be it 26-27.7-29.
 
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