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  1. #1
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Smile 650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Hi Friends,

    Thank you all for providing so much technical trail bike knowledge. I've learned so much and met so many great people over my 15 years participating in the MTBR forums.

    Now it's my turn to give back and serve the trail bike community, with what I know many including me have long been asking for.

    I'm introducing here the first WIDE carbon-fiber rims for mountain bikes, 650b x 40mm and 29 x35mm.

    See Home for details, and a limited sale price for the first 10 rim sets.

    I want you to ride them first.

    I could go on and on what a game changer these rims make in optimizing 2.1 and larger tire performance for stability, grip, and handling, with DH/FR durability and XC weight.

    BTW, I've posted an MTBR classified ad. And updated my signature as per the forum policies.
    www.derbyrims.com STRONGER, STIFFER, LIGHTER

    29 x 35mm wide
    650b x 40mm wide

  2. #2
    it's the ride....
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    I know sooner or later you will be in the supplier community contributing with your vast knowledge to this mtb world Congratulations and good luck Derby.
    I wish I am reachable to test your product
    Ulating blencong sejatine tataraning lelaku...

  3. #3
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    What does the rims profile look like.

    Edit - found it on the website.

    They appear to be hookless. Is that correct?

  4. #4
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Really cool looking rims. Are they made in the USA?

  5. #5
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    The rims look pretty nice. May I ask where they are made?
    We Ride In God's Country!

  6. #6
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    Good luck with your venture. Personally, I am looking for something in similar widths that have a UST bead profile. I reserve the right to change my mind but I would be a late adopter.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Hi Friends,

    Thank you all for providing so much technical trail bike knowledge. I've learned so much and met so many great people over my 15 years participating in the MTBR forums.
    You, sir, have been a great source of information for me, I built a few 650b bikes incld. a Mojo HD with your indirect help. I hope my order will give a little back. Best of luck!

  8. #8
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Another question - I have a 650b conversion so tire clearance is a concern for me. How much wider will a tire be on a 40 mm wide rim vs the 29.1 (FlowEX) that I'm running now? I don't think it would be too much different.

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    My order is on its way here! Thank you Derby, I cannot wait to lace it.

  10. #10
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    Congrats and good luck Derby... I appreciate all your contributions to the community here....especially for leading the way with all your early 650b Mojo tinkering.

    Questions:
    What's the internal width on the 650b rim?

    How does that play with a tire on the narrower end of the all conditions spectrum, like a Neo Moto 2.1, Racing Ralph 2.25, or CrossMark 2.1? Is it all good, or are the wide rims better suited to the nuevo-massive breed of tires like Hans Dampfs, Trail Kings, etc.?
    Last edited by doismellbacon; 08-17-2013 at 09:08 AM. Reason: correcting spelling of made up words :P

  11. #11
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    I'm in..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Congrats and good luck Derby... I appreciate all your contributions to the community here....especially for leading the way with all your early 650b Mojo tinkering.

    Questions:
    What's the internal width on the 650b rim?

    How does that play with a tire on the narrower end of the all conditions spectrum, like a Neo Moto 2.1, Racing Ralph 2.25, or CrossMark 2.1? Is it all good, or are the wide rims better suited to the neuvo-massive breed of tires like Hans Dampfs, Trail Kings, etc.?
    website shows the inside width as 34mm for the 650b rim

    Ray, Same Congratulations..
    And, same Question about your experience with different tires?

  13. #13
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    Oh, thanks....somehow I missed that.

  14. #14
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    The bead area looks nice and beefy....should take some abuse.

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    Congrats Derby!

    I'd also like to hear your thoughts with some something like a 2.1 on this rim. I'm definitely intereseted, especially at intro prices.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    How does that play with a tire on the narrower end of the all conditions spectrum, like a Neo Moto 2.1, Racing Ralph 2.25, or CrossMark 2.1? Is it all good, or are the wide rims better suited to the nuevo-massive breed of tires like Hans Dampfs, Trail Kings, etc.?
    Measured a Racing Ralph 2.25 at 2.2" width on the Derby 29 x 35 rims. Running them at 18Front 19psi rear for a 180 lb rider. It is a different world of off road traction and bump compliance.

    H

  17. #17
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    That's a pretty damn solid endorsement

  18. #18
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    Good job! Huge Congrats D!

    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Now it's my turn to give back and serve the trail bike community, with what I know many including me have long been asking for.

    I'm introducing here the first WIDE carbon-fiber rims for mountain bikes, 650b x 40mm and 29 x35mm.
    Fantastic. Can't wait to order a set... And more importantly, thanks for all that you've shared and how patient you've been on the forums over the years. I can say that you're one of the Good Ones.

    It's really great to see someone pursue their vision and start a business based on it.

    Huge props.
    - -benja- -

  19. #19
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    They look great, I want some and I don't even own a 27.5!

  20. #20
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    Wow. I feel so good hearing so many positive vibrations!

    Other than my day job, and a short 2 hour ride before dark tonight, since announcing the Grand Opening till now I've been non-stop replying to emails from derbyrims.com and filling orders.

    The first day was great! the 650b is outselling 29'r by 250% !

    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    They appear to be hookless. Is that correct?
    Yes these are "Hookless":
    With tubeless ready bead seat design, tightly centering the tire around a rim, the upper bead hook is useless, even when using tubes, and weakens a rim, especially carbon rims. The clincher side hooks were useful when rims had no bead seats for centering the tire around rims as they aired up. Have a look at the Specialized Roval carbon rims, they have returned to having no side bead hooks. This is really an older rim design, the side hooks or "clincher" bead hooks, first became used in the early '70s when high pressure inner tubed road tires had trouble centering on the rim when airing up to 65+ psi and would blow off the rim sooner or later. Centering a tire is not a problem now with the tire centering TR inner bead seats now common. And my rim side walls rise 6mm above the bead seat, slightly more than most aluminum rims also keeping loosely beaded tires on the rims when aired up. There rims can easily take 80psi.

    Also, notice the Bead locks:
    Notice my rims have a bead seat locking "lump" or ridge next to the deep channel around both bead seats. Much like UST bead seat design, this keeps a tubeless bead from sliding inward into the channel and burping while hard cornering. Also the bead locks keep the bead on the bead seat when the tire goes flat, so the flat tire can protect the rim from rock damage while rolling to a stop after flatting.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    Really cool looking rims. Are they made in the USA?
    Designed here in the USA, and assembled here (well the sticker is applied), and they are shipped from here, all by me : ) There's no way I could afford to produce them in the USA. No other CF rims except ENVE are made here, and rumor is they are getting some rims made in China soon. ....If any consolation, I'm not sourcing rims outside of this world... yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    The rims look pretty nice. May I ask where they are made?
    I'm sorry, it is confidential.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    Good luck with your venture. Personally, I am looking for something in similar widths that have a UST bead profile. I reserve the right to change my mind but I would be a late adopter.
    The problem with strict UST design is sharp hooks require cutting the fibers or using only resin with would crack easily. My opinion and it is well demonstrated that the side hooks are useless when there is a platform or flat bead seat centering the tire's bead. I did design the seat to have bead locking "lumps" around each bead seat next to the channel, somewhat like UST's seat hooks preventing bead squirm and burping during hard cornering. I'm over 200 lbs and 6'1". I've landed many time some moderate drops to near flat without burps with my rims, where the same landing would sometimes burp the same tire with rims I previously rode without bead locks and where only ghetto (split and trimmed inner tube) rim strips prevented burps previously for me. And the rim wall is 1mm diameter taller than many rims for holding loosely beaded tires on safely.

    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon and flyinmike
    Congrats and good luck Derby... I appreciate all your contributions to the community here....especially for leading the way with all your early 650b Mojo tinkering.

    Questions:
    What's the internal width on the 650b rim?

    How does that play with a tire on the narrower end of the all conditions spectrum, like a Neo Moto 2.1, Racing Ralph 2.25, or CrossMark 2.1? Is it all good, or are the wide rims better suited to the nuevo-massive breed of tires like Hans Dampfs, Trail Kings, etc.?
    Thanks dois' and flyin" !

    The rim walls by the beads are 3mm, thicker that any other, and Unidirectional fiber for maximum durability resiting chips and cracks. On the web site is a picture where I snake-bit my tubeless Noe-moto landing a jump on a sharp rock and the picture shows what casing the rim did. Although a substantial divot, like hit by an axe, no chipping, no crack, no rim repair was needed. I believe my rims are DH/FR durable. And they are coming in weighing mostly about 435 grams in the 650b x 40mm wide now.

    And also reply to 88 rex:
    2.1 tires are no problem, the casing is better optimized in performance as well as using larger width tires, with 2.1 tires and these wide rims the casing stiffens under the edges of the tread, lower pressures are enabled for increased traction and easier rolling over rocks. Under 2.0 width tires are really to minimize tire weight and minimize tread contact for lowering rolling resistance on pavement and smooth hard pack dirt surfaces. A narrow road width rim is better for such minimal tread contact goals, narrower rims reduces the tread contact patch by forcing to air up higher pressures for stability.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Measured a Racing Ralph 2.25 at 2.2" width on the Derby 29 x 35 rims. Running them at 18Front 19psi rear for a 180 lb rider. It is a different world of off road traction and bump compliance.

    H
    Endless thanks Hans. And more thanks for bringing Ibis back to a thriving life and raising the standard of quality for trail bikes today, without inflating the prices of your frames.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    They look great, I want some and I don't even own a 27.5!
    Hey ScottW, they also are available in 29'r x 35mm ! Coming in about 445 grams on average now.

    Thanks everyone! .... I'll check back when I can come up for air again and relax here.
    www.derbyrims.com STRONGER, STIFFER, LIGHTER

    29 x 35mm wide
    650b x 40mm wide

  21. #21
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    Awesome! I was hoping something like this would come out at Interbike and can't believe no one else is doing a carbon rim like this. I personally think a wide rim is one of the best upgrades you can make to a bike but I was not willing to put up with the P35's weight. I also hope that rims like this will flatten out my Vee tires. The only real complaint I have about them is they look like a light bulb on Kirk's TL28 rims.

    I hope you don't mind but this picture was taken from your website.


    Name:  Derby Rims.jpg
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    Those are stout rim walls and nipple bed. I pulled nipples thru 3 Zipp road rims so my wallet always like to look at that area. Stan's 355 rims with 700x25 tires were the best ever upgrade I ever did for my road bike and I hope rims like this will do the same with my mtn bikes.
    Last edited by Flip D; 08-18-2013 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spelling

  22. #22
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    Pm'd you and have been trying to contact you by email with no results.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    My order is on its way here! Thank you Derby, I cannot wait to lace it.
    Quote Originally Posted by flyinmike View Post
    I'm in..
    StiHacha and Flyinmike, Thank you so much! You'll be amazed at the handling and stability improvements.

    These rims deserve the best hubs you can afford. Spoke tension can be quite high, the spokes and hubs are the weaker "links" in wheels with these rims. Failure testing spoke pull force, demonstrated that spokes break first before they pull out or damage the rim. However, wheels can be too stiff. I've read that the top DH racers tune their spoke tension for different courses, I think because on their very heavy duty stiff framed bikes a some lateral flex helps traction while leaned over in turns and better directional control when pin-balling through rocks. These rims would allow DH racers lower tire pressures which may be a better way to control lateral flex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    Awesome! I was hoping something like this would come out at Interbike and can't believe no one else is doing a carbon rim like this. I personally think a wide rim is one of the best upgrades you can make to a bike but I was not willing to put up with the P35's weight. I also hope that rims like this will flatten out my Vee tires. The only real complaint I have about them is they look like a light bulb on Kirk's TL28 rims.

    I hope you don't mind but this picture was taken from you website.

    Those are stout rim walls and nipple bed. I pulled nipples thru 3 Zipp road rims so my wallet always like to look at that area. Stan's 355 rims with 700x25 tires were the best ever upgrade I ever did for my road bike and I hope rims like this will do the same with my mtn bikes.
    Flip D, Yes, 3mm thick "hookless" rim walls, which is 0.5mm more than the thickest hooked rim walls, adding minimal weight but much durability from rock hits when flatting, and a wide surface to prevent most tire or tube snake-bit pinch flats. Although, I managed to pinch flat my tire landing a drop on a sharp rock with very low tubeless air pressure, making minimal damage to the rim with no rim repair needed. See the web site for a picture of this damage.

    And read my reply just above on the spoke pull strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by techfersure View Post
    Pm'd you and have been trying to contact you by email with no results.
    techfersure, please check you PM, I replied with an alternative.
    www.derbyrims.com STRONGER, STIFFER, LIGHTER

    29 x 35mm wide
    650b x 40mm wide

  24. #24
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    Congratulations, derby. Impressive products and overall effort. All success is deserved!

  25. #25
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    Is it even legal to sell something in the U.S. when it's manufacturing origin is "confidential?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Is it even legal to sell something in the U.S. when it's manufacturing origin is "confidential?"
    Call up Specialized and see if they tell you where a particular model is made. Likely your answer will be "asia".

  27. #27
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    Valid point, but won't there be a "Made in" sticker on it?

  28. #28
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Valid point, but won't there be a "Made in" sticker on it?
    I think it's safe to assume these are made in China. If not China then Taiwan.

  29. #29
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    I am sure D wants to keep the vendor 'confidential', not the country of origin. I get asked this all the time... Legally, I am pretty sure you have to be transparent about the country the item comes from, but there is no obligation to divulge the name of the factory making the product. Congrats Derby!
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  30. #30
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    So I have to ask if a 26" will be offered at some point? I found a frame I really like, but even with a 2.1 tire I only have .5" of room so I doubt a 650b will fit.

    And yes, I appreciate the irony of posting this question directly below Kirk P.
    Last edited by Jon Richard; 08-19-2013 at 07:42 AM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti View Post
    I am sure D wants to keep the vendor 'confidential', not the country of origin. I get asked this all the time... Legally, I am pretty sure you have to be transparent about the country the item comes from, but there is no obligation to divulge the name of the factory making the product. Congrats Derby!
    Yes, country of origin is all I'm asking--though I agree that we can assume China. I'm not trying to bust Derby's chops on this--I applaud anyone who tries to have a go at making a living in the bike biz. I just think this is something that one should be upfront about.

  32. #32
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    Ordered! Can't wait to lace them up. Thinking of using CX-ray's. Will be recycling the King hubs I'm using currently.

  33. #33
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    When I asked where the rims were made I was not asking a specific factory but just country of origin. Yes, most stuff seems to come out of China these days. Heck even my $2700 Mojo HD says made in China.

    But he didn't say where these rims are made so it's all speculation. But I would still like to know. Many companies will say where their products are made on their "Home" or "About Us" page. Just saying is all...

    I'd like to know. What kind of testing did you do with the rims? Any labs tests?
    We Ride In God's Country!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    When I asked where the rims were made I was not asking a specific factory but just country of origin. Yes, most stuff seems to come out of China these days. Heck even my $2700 Mojo HD says made in China.

    But he didn't say where these rims are made so it's all speculation. But I would still like to know. Many companies will say where their products are made on their "Home" or "About Us" page. Just saying is all...

    I'd like to know. What kind of testing did you do with the rims? Any labs tests?
    By law, there must be a decal stating where the product is made. It is against the law to remove this label. Maybe someone that bought a pair can chime in.....

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    It is against the law to remove this label.
    Will the label police arrest me if i do or can i just pay a fine?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by literally View Post
    Will the label police arrest me if i do or can i just pay a fine?
    Wasn't talking about you......derby cannot remove the label.....

  37. #37
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    ROTFL @ This thread

    No good deed goes unpunished....

    Rims look great Derby! Keep up the good work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    Wasn't talking about you......derby cannot remove the label.....
    Are you a cop working on behalf of my good? If you are concerned about their place of origin, do not buy them. Or go ask Derby directly. I am not really sure what point you are trying to make here. Go troll somewhere else.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Are you a cop working on behalf of my good? If you are concerned about their place of origin, do not buy them. Or go ask Derby directly. I am not really sure what point you are trying to make here. Go troll somewhere else.
    No, I am just telling you the way it is. I am well read and know about this because I import a lot of things from all over the world. One of the things that customs checks is where the item is manufactured. It must have that label or will not be permitted to enter the country. Why don't you do ourself a favor and head to Walmart and check all the products.....you will see that. I used to import souvenirs and most are made in China, I was informed by customs to never remove the label prior to being sold to the final consumer.....

    But I know you don't know or understand these things.......ignorance is bliss..


    Here you go:http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...t/markingo.doc

    Scroll to the bottom.

    Definition of ignorance is bliss...the lack of knowledge to a situation. Usually once the whole truth is revealed you realize you were happier being clueless....
    Last edited by Atomik Carbon; 08-20-2013 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Spelling

  40. #40
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    Whatever, you're trolling here and you've been asked to stop. If you want to start a new thread with your all insights about import labeling and how well-read you are, go for it.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Whatever, you're trolling here and you've been asked to stop. If you want to start a new thread with your all insights about import labeling and how well-read you are, go for it.
    Why am I trolling when everything I am saying is true?. You can stick your head in the sand and ignore facts. I am just telling you the way it is. I am not saying that the product is not great. However, several people before brought up the origin of manufacture label and I have a lot of knowledge about this subject. I am doing them a favor by answering their posts.

    It is absolutely incredible how most people think that importing from another country is like going down the street and making a purchase or picking up a phone and mail ordering.......you need to not be so ignorant and educate yourself. They are totally different ........but you choose to remain ignorant......

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Measured a Racing Ralph 2.25 at 2.2" width on the Derby 29 x 35 rims. Running them at 18Front 19psi rear for a 180 lb rider. It is a different world of off road traction and bump compliance.

    H
    This is like Yoda giving the thumbs-up to your new lightsaber design. Hanssc, for those who don't know, is Hans Heim, one of head honchos at Ibis and president of Santa Cruz for 10 years before that.

  43. #43
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    Isn't it light "sabre"? And your use of the word "design" obviously means that it's going to be made somewhere else! Is it CHINA??!! Huh Huh?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Isn't it light "sabre"? And your use of the word "design" obviously means that it's going to be made somewhere else! Is it CHINA??!! Huh Huh?
    Be careful...if you don't tow the line, he is going to accuse you,of TROLLING.....like mice following the Pied Piper.....now that is trolling.

  45. #45
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    However "well read" you may be, you are entirely missing the point, and target, of my sarcasm.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    However "well read" you may be, you are entirely missing the point, and target, of my sarcasm.
    Your humor is not lost. I am poking fun since oldmanbike does not like when anyone says anything negative.....which is what I thought the "forum" was all about....
    Last edited by Atomik Carbon; 08-20-2013 at 03:14 PM. Reason: add

  47. #47
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    Derby,

    After all the years on the forum discussing and retrofitting the Mojo with the 650B, you've created something special. Congratulations.

    And now that my Mojo frame is totally worn beyond repair, I've been eyeing 29'ers. It was only the last few days when I began to seriously focus on 650B that I found this thread. I often wondered what a wider rim would do. I began running the narrowest "josh Deetz" rims back in the mid 80's, just for weight.

    Also, you probably know Eric Norstadt. I heard about those Angel Island derbies. I wonder if it's the same thing. Humongous monster bikes?

    Cheers.
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

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    Congrats Ray! Rims look fantastic.

    -Shane

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    So, how big a tire can be squeezed into the HDR 650B with this rim? Still 2.25?
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

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    Another question: What is the internal width on the 650bx40mm?
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    From his website.

    BSD: 584mm


    Outer width: 40mm


    Inner width: 34mm

    To get to all the rim dimensions, click on the buy now tab on Derby's website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    So, how big a tire can be squeezed into the HDR 650B with this rim? Still 2.25?
    Obviously depends on the tire. Are you asking if 2.35 Hans fits with this rim?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    So, how big a tire can be squeezed into the HDR 650B with this rim? Still 2.25?
    Somewhat counter intuitively, the outside diameter does not change much at all. It seems to be constrained by the circumferential tension of the cord whose length is fixed, that is, the distance around the outside of the tire does not change. The width changes slightly, but not as much as you would think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    So, how big a tire can be squeezed into the HDR 650B with this rim? Still 2.25?
    To answer the question: a typical 2.35 x 650b will fit the HDR, just not a 2.5 x 650b labeled as a 2.35.

  55. #55
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    I arrived home this evening greeted by a brown box !!

    Derby, I have to say you did a fantastic job on these rims. They look amazing. I can't wait to get these laced up and dirty.
    I am impressed by the quality and attention to detail. Sweet !!
    Thank You

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Is it even legal to sell something in the U.S. when it's manufacturing origin is "confidential?"
    the answer is somewhat complicated, in short though...to import something into the US it is mandatory, customs wont allow anything they dont know the origin.

    from a consumer standpoint i don't believe it is mandatory to define country of origin...

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    Where has Derby been lately? I'd like to see his replies to all these intriguing questions. I know for me if I were selling a new product I'd be checking in constantly.

    Again, the rims look great but I dont even know his last name, where the rims are made, where the company headquarters are, or anything about the his company, if there is a company. I'd just like more info before I plunk down some cash.
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    The guy has never said the country of origin is confidential. He says they're made in China. What he doesn't want to tell you is in what factory/manufacturer are making the rims, and he's well within his rights not to tell you, or customs or anyone else. There's a lot of legwork involved in finding a good manufacturer in China. The last thing you want is potential competitors or joe public trying to buy direct from "your" manufacturer.

    That aside, top work on these rims. Pity you don't have 26" versions.

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    deleated..

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    Gracias! HDR on order, as well as some 2.25 Hans Dampfs.
    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    To answer the question: a typical 2.35 x 650b will fit the HDR, just not a 2.5 x 650b labeled as a 2.35.
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    The guy has never said the country of origin is confidential. He says they're made in China. What he doesn't want to tell you is in what factory/manufacturer are making the rims, and he's well within his rights not to tell you, or customs or anyone else. There's a lot of legwork involved in finding a good manufacturer in China. The last thing you want is potential competitors or joe public trying to buy direct from "your" manufacturer.
    Totally agree. But where does it say made in China? I missed that one. Thanks.

    Other questions:
    Where exactly do we send the rims if we have a warranty or repair issue?
    If we don't buy the extra warranty coverage and we have a problem after a year, what happens then?
    Is your company a registered, copyrighted, and licensed business?
    Do the listed prices include shipping?
    Is email the only way to contact you with issues?

    I really like the rims and idea of 40mm rims but would like to hear more from Derby.

    Derby?
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    here's a wide rim question: are rim dings more likely with less "tyre sidewall protrusion" than that on a std width rim?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    here's a wide rim question: are rim dings more likely with less "tyre sidewall protrusion" than that on a std width rim?
    Good question indeed ....I can't tell you the amount of times I am riding and hear the side of my tire scrub against a rock.....sometimes you see those cars with wide rims and the edge of the rim is sticking out. can someone post a pic of what these look like with a tire mounted on them ???

    15 minutes later...

    I just measured my 30mm wide rims with Schwalbe Racing Ralphs and the distance between the edge of the rim and the edge of the tire is 10mm. Does this mean that with the same tire mounted on a 35mm rim, the edge distance will be 7.5mm for a 35mm wide rim and 5mm for a 40mm wide rim ??

    If this is correct, then there are always tradeoffs. Only the buyer will know what the correct answer is. Balance traction and a higher risk of edge damage....but we need to know this so we can make a decision right for us....
    Last edited by Atomik Carbon; 08-23-2013 at 08:01 AM. Reason: add content

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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Got mine!!





    Can't wait to lace them up!

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    Sweet! I cannot wait to receive mine. Since I am on the wrong coast, it will take another day for mine to arrive.

  66. #66
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Those scale pics really show off the width. They look fargin' huge!

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    I thought the lip thickness was suppose to be 3mm ?? Looks closer to 2.5mm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    I thought the lip thickness was suppose to be 3mm ?? Looks closer to 2.5mm.
    Just double checked with calipers. It measures about 3 mm, a little over on average.

    H

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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Just double checked with calipers. It measures about 3 mm, a little over on average.

    H
    Just the angle of the pic. You can see that the outer width is 40 and the inner is 34. So if my math is right that's 3mm per sidewall.

  70. #70
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    I've just now got time and energy to return to MTBR. The response has been great. Besides my day job, I've spent nearly all my time shipping orders and corresponding to many emails from the Contact Us page on my web site and shopping cart. And barely able to get shorter rides in on the weekends, besides riding to my day job when I don't drive to drop off orders to ship. I want to rig up a rack on my bike to carry a few rim set boxes to drop off on the way to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Is it even legal to sell something in the U.S. when it's manufacturing origin is "confidential?"
    Legally, I am the manufacturer (please don't sue me, you can't squeeze blood from a radish, anyway!). I designed my rims right here in the USA, and I employ many services doing my business here in the USA. I sent products, my designs, to a foreign country, and they return an enhanced result of my product which originated in the USA.

    The factory is in Asia, the same as every other carbon rim factory except Enve, and Easton makes some rims in Mexico. And rumor is Enve are soon adding some of their rims to be made in Asia also, where all the other Enve components are made. The owner(s) of Enve have to be very rich to invest in such high overhead here, and I'm not. I really respect what Enve has done here, but they are serving rich riders. I'm a hard working laboring person all my life, no trust fund, minimal inheritance 40 years ago squandered in my youth trying to start up a small import-export business, saving for many years from my earnings as an employee, risking a significant part of my savings to do this. The nation of the factory where my design is materialized is China. Having worked for years with software engineers in China who are also employed by the same multinational "US based" corporation I'm employed with, I well know there is very high pride in the quality the working people there have do things right, they are very honorable working people like me.

    I want to serve people like me, hard working laborers who appreciate the very best value we can afford to buy.

    I will be handling warranty. No delays or expensive shipping back to Asia. I don't want to jinx myself, but I don't expect any warranty defects or crash damage problems. These rims are tough, overbuilt by design to endure DH/FR with enough tire air pressure for the situation, while being XC-race light in weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K View Post
    Derby,

    After all the years on the forum discussing and retrofitting the Mojo with the 650B, you've created something special. Congratulations.

    And now that my Mojo frame is totally worn beyond repair, I've been eyeing 29'ers. It was only the last few days when I began to seriously focus on 650B that I found this thread. I often wondered what a wider rim would do. I began running the narrowest "josh Deetz" rims back in the mid 80's, just for weight.

    Also, you probably know Eric Norstadt. I heard about those Angel Island derbies. I wonder if it's the same thing. Humongous monster bikes?

    Cheers.
    Thanks Gregg! Yes it is amazing the improvement in stability, cornering grip, and lower rolling resistance over rocks using much lower air pressure, with wider rims and using the same tires.

    Mark is an old friend, his father was a ceramics instructor of mine in college too. I was afraid to ride Mark's Big Bike, I'm afraid of heights and it is about 6 or 7 feet up to the seat and bars! And at a derby you didn't want to drop your bike in the path of the Big Bike!

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    So, how big a tire can be squeezed into the HDR 650B with this rim? Still 2.25?
    I'm not sure with the HDR, yet, I just got a frame and hope to find time to build it up soon. I have some 2.4 Trail Takers to try out. And I think the Hans Damph 2.35 will have no problem.

    Going to wider rims, the tire's circumference doesn't grow taller. I've closely measured rollout which calculates to tire height, and measured knob width too. Using the same 2.3 Pacenti neo-moto tire on a 40mm compared to a 28mm Blunt, the tire doesn't grow taller, the tire is no higher in the center knobs, and the edge knobs are actually a very small measurement narrower, about .5mm narrower. But the edge knob do stand up making a more "square" tread profile, and these edge knobs do come closer to the arch of a fork or yoke of a chain-stay by about 1.5mm, so it is slightly closer clearance above the edge knobs.


    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    .....The last thing you want is potential competitors or joe public trying to buy direct from "your" manufacturer.

    That aside, top work on these rims. Pity you don't have 26" versions.
    Tig' I hope to do 26 inch versions in about 6 months. But I started with wheels sizes I thought would sell more numbers currently. After I break-even in my risky savings investment I feel I can be more aggressive in risking profits, and then "play with the house's money".

    I expect others will jump in an make wider carbon rims available, but they will probably be only whole wheel builds to avoid wheel builder mistakes causing damage. I'm not worried about the wheelbuilders, my rims are control tested on calibrated force to fail machines and measured to break spokes before the rim is damaged. The direct order from China for rims as wide is doubtful for at least a year, after sales in wider rims grow to something for them worth investing in, mold costs and carbon-fiber prepreg are very expensive, the market for real wide rims is still too small. Only a few well experienced riders already know the benefits and understand that the only problem with wide rims was rolling weight. In the early "pioneer" trail bike days 40+ mm wide rims were the norm. Now the weight problem is solved with carbon fiber. But the majority of riders have no experience with wider rims and will need to be educated or hyped into buying by rider reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    here's a wide rim question: are rim dings more likely with less "tyre sidewall protrusion" than that on a std width rim?
    With the 40mm rims a 1.6 inch tire is the same width. If riding wider tires than 1.6, then the rim is in the "shadow" of the tire width, narrower than the tire, when sliding off the side of a rock.

    I like tires where the outside edges of the tread is wider than the casing, so the tread protects the tire's sidewall in these situations when the tire slips off the side of a rock.

    I've been riding the 40's for a few months, and I like rocky trails, so rocky that I have to carry my bike sometimes, and the rims are getting some rock digs, no more than a pencil line scrape or nick. I haven't touched them up but they could be with a black Sharpie or other permanent marker pen. There's a picture I posted on my web site showing the rim damage from a snake-bite tire failure landing a drop onto a sharp rock, while running too low pressure for that situation. Threw a tube in and kept riding (installing tires on my rims is easy without using plastic levers), and later fixed the tire and aired up tubeless again, the divot in the rim did not need any repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    I thought the lip thickness was suppose to be 3mm ?? Looks closer to 2.5mm.
    3mm each side. The rounded edges make it appear narrower in the pictures posted. The wide rounded edge and mostly flat circumference of the rim wall protects the tire and tubes from getting snake-bit as easily as with a narrower carbon rim wall, and the wide rim wall edge endures direct hits such as I did casing a tire onto the rim running too low pressure for the situation.



    Well thanks everyone for the attention to these rims! I'm really looking forward to hearing your ride reports.
    www.derbyrims.com STRONGER, STIFFER, LIGHTER

    29 x 35mm wide
    650b x 40mm wide

  71. #71
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Another couple of pics comparing the Derby to an i23.
    Side by side

    i23 sitting inside my Derby

    These absolutely dwarf a 23 mm rim.

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    I got mine and it is stunning, very nicely done with a great finish. Thanks Derby! They look like fatbike rims, it is almost ridiculous how huge they are. All I need now is some time for lacing and truing and then having fun in Highland.

    Great job Derby, I will be back for more.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Another couple of pics comparing the Derby to an i23.
    Side by side
    Wow....that really puts it in perspective! Massive.

  74. #74
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    These look great and I'm very, very interested in trying a pair on my Enduro 29. I have a set of Hope hubs waiting for a build so I might have to pull the trigger soon!
    Tallboy3 CC : Stigmata2 CC : Honzo carbon

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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    i hope to do 26 inch versions in about 6 months. But i started with wheels sizes i thought would sell more numbers currently. After i break-even in my risky savings investment i feel i can be more aggressive in risking profits, and then "play with the house's money".
    yay!

  76. #76
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Another comparison pic

    Derby vs. FlowEX




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    Makes me want to get silly on my bike.........thanks for the comparo shots.

    I just might have to build up a special bike for a rim like this.

  78. #78
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    Those comparison shots are also good for comparing the stickers on each rim. I think my Derbys will be the first rims I don't pull the stickers off of first thing.

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    Someone's got to have pics of a built up wheel by now. I'd also like to see how the tires sidewalls look on there...with say a Hans Damph 2.25 or 2.35.

    What a great concept, wide ass 34mm internal. I remember in my 1970s bmx days, I used a super wide alum rim. I cant remember the width but they were heavy as hell but little to no tire squirm.
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Someone's got to have pics of a built up wheel by now. I'd also like to see how the tires sidewalls look on there...with say a Hans Damph 2.25 or 2.35.
    Patience young padawan! I laced one but it has yet to be tensioned. It looks great.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Patience young padawan! I laced one but it has yet to be tensioned. It looks great.
    Use the force, Luke...and get them laced up! LOL. What hubs are you using? You building them yourself? I might just lace up my own this time.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  82. #82
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Use the force, Luke...and get them laced up! LOL. What hubs are you using? You building them yourself? I might just lace up my own this time.
    Same thing here. Laced but not tensioned.
    Chris King hubs with DT comps and DT alu nips.
    Going to shave 200 grams off my previous build with FlowEX's. Laced them myself and put light tension in them. I'll take them to my LBS to be finished.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Same thing here. Laced but not tensioned.
    Chris King hubs with DT comps and DT alu nips.
    Going to shave 200 grams off my previous build with FlowEX's. Laced them myself and put light tension in them. I'll take them to my LBS to be finished.
    200gs? What hubs were on those Flow's? The Derby's weigh 70gs less than the Flows.
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    I just ordered a set too. Not two, though it was tempting...

    I'm going with Hadleys. The blue anodizing on those hubs is like candied apples. And with these sweet wide-ass rims, it should be winner.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  85. #85
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    200gs? What hubs were on those Flow's? The Derby's weigh 70gs less than the Flows.
    Derby's are 100 grams less. My front wheel ended up 105 grams less (valve/tape on the flow vs naked Derby). Haven't weighed the rear yet.





    (I fixed the lacing on the Derby since taking the pic if you noticed the f'ed up spacing on "take one")

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Derby's are 100 grams less. My front wheel ended up 105 grams less (valve/tape on the flow vs naked Derby). Haven't weighed the rear yet.



    [IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/27/u4ume5ej.jpg[/IMG

    (I fixed the lacing on the Derby since taking the pic if you noticed the f'ed up spacing on "take one")
    I didn't notice the "take one" you're talking about. This build will be my first ever so I can learn from you, master Yoda. But quick, get a pic with a tire on there. I want to see the sidewall form on that wide-ass rim. Use the force...Ha
    We Ride In God's Country!

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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    I didn't notice the "take one" you're talking about. This build will be my first ever so I can learn from you, master Yoda. But quick, get a pic with a tire on there. I want to see the sidewall form on that wide-ass rim. Use the force...Ha
    I screwed up the lacing. I forgot to skip a hole after the under, under, over with a 3 cross pattern.

    I use this tutorial - Drive side : http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYl4NO5...%3DOYl4NO5m16Q

    Non-drive side: http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=8NJwEcm-NTw

    Some hints-

    If you are unbuilding a wheel then building these up, mark the spoke holes on the hub that correspond to the "boxing"/parallel spokes around the valve hole, before you unbuild it. Those are the key spokes to know the placement of. If you are reusing a hub save yourself the time and effort and just snip all the old spokes. Wear safety goggles and make sure the spoke is pointing in a safe direction. Use some form of spoke prep! Be liberal greasing the nips and spokes if that's what you're using for spoke prep. Always cover the end of the spoke with a fingertip when pulling under/around the rim/other spokes. It's a bummer to scratch the side of a brand new rim, especially one of these beautiful Derby's. Use a spoke threaded into the top of the nipple to place it in the hole. If you do lose a nipple in the rim the Alu ones have some magnetic properties so a strong magnet and a spoke to push with can help you coax it out the valve hole (had to do this twice this build so I know it works). Use a thin flat head screwdriver to start the nipple on the spoke.

    Don't know if its on the website, but the paperwork that comes with the rims specifies that you should use the longer 44mm valve stems. Not the standard 35 mm ones. That would go for spare tubes as well. Would be a bummer to be stuck trail side because you couldn't pump up your tube after a non-sealing flat.
    Last edited by mestapho; 08-27-2013 at 08:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Use the force, Luke...and get them laced up! LOL. What hubs are you using? You building them yourself? I might just lace up my own this time.
    I am only building a front wheel this time, laced to Hadley DH hub, Wheelsmith DB14 spokes and Sapim polyax brass nipples. Alu nipples are IMHO risky because of the galvanic corrosion between alu and carbon fiber. I tensioned the wheel this morning but there is still work to be done. It should be ready for the weekend though, I cannot wait. ATM I have a P35 rim the front w/ 35mm external width. The Derby rim is 5mm wider in/out and 120g lighter.

    If you go for your first wheel build, there are only two resources you need to see:
    Wheelbuilding

    Wheels

    I built only half a dozen of wheels so far but I found the youtube videos more confusing than the excellent articles above. I am definitely a reader.

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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    If you go for your first wheel build, there are only two resources you need to see:
    Wheelbuilding

    Wheels

    I built only half a dozen of wheels so far but I found the youtube videos more confusing than the excellent articles above. I am definitely a reader.
    Funny. I knew someone would post Sheldon Brown. He is a great resource but I need the visual to learn and understand. The other thing I didn't like with the Sheldon Brown tut is that it's based in a 36 spoke build so his diagrams don't exactly match what I'm doing. I know it's the exact same thing, just sub 32 for 36 and 8 for 9, but it just messes with my head.

    I'm definitely a visual learner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Got mine!!





    Can't wait to lace them up!
    wow these rims look awesome! Please keep us updated on how they fit on your bike(and the tires/size you are using) since I think you have a converted TRc.
    If there are no issues with fit I would get these if I ever crack my LB rims.

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    Cool, how 'bout pics of common tires on the new rim?
    Amolan

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    Have an honest question, maybe others have been wondering the same. I've never run anything wider than a Flow, and I'm a little skeptical about ultrawide rims. My concern is that none of the tires I'd run on them were designed for such a wide rim, not even close. What kind of an impact does that have on tire profile and tire performance?

    I'm not trolling, or not meaning to. I suspect Derby, and others who've ridden rims this wide, have a convincing answer, because I trust a lot of the folks who've spoken up for them. Just interested in hearing why that concern is unfounded.

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    Derby, at least, has made his opinion pretty clear on the matter.... Post #70 in this thread.....

    "Yes it is amazing the improvement in stability, cornering grip, and lower rolling resistance over rocks using much lower air pressure, with wider rims and using the same tires."

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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Derby, at least, has made his opinion pretty clear on the matter.... Post #70 in this thread.....

    "Yes it is amazing the improvement in stability, cornering grip, and lower rolling resistance over rocks using much lower air pressure, with wider rims and using the same tires."
    Right, and there's also Hans saying "It is a different world of off road traction and bump compliance." So I get that my concern is unfounded, I'm just wondering if anyone can shed light on why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Right, and there's also Hans saying "It is a different world of off road traction and bump compliance." So I get that my concern is unfounded, I'm just wondering if anyone can shed light on why.
    This article is a good starting point: Tech Tuesday ? Wider Rims Are Better and Why Tubeless Tires Burp Air - Pinkbike

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Interesting, thanks. Suggests my question had it backwards -- its not that current tires are optimized for current narrower rims and so are thrown off by wider rims, its that current wide tires have always been undermined by too-narrow rims and ultrawides finally are correcting that.

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    And also suggests that wider rims are more beneficial for wider tires. Maybe someone running 2.35 front and 2.25 back would get more benefit from an ultrawide front rim than an ultrawide rear?

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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Built! Still going to drop them off with my LBS to get perfected but they are pretty close, about as good as u can get with my cheap truing stand)



    Front is tensioned to around 130
    Rear is around 135 drive side and 100 non-drive side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Built! Still going to drop them off with my LBS to get perfected but they are pretty close, about as good as u can get with my cheap truing stand)



    Front is tensioned to around 130
    Rear is around 135 drive side and 100 non-drive side.
    I have King ISOs that I'd lace up to these... What spoke lengths did you use?

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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by moff_quigley View Post
    I have King ISOs that I'd lace up to these... What spoke lengths did you use?
    DT Comp 262mm with 12mm nips on all of it. Could've gone with 261.

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