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  1. #901
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    When I get desperate, I step on that biatch. Can you imagine what would it take for those tires to burp?

  2. #902
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Hi guys, just ordered some rims last night and will be lacing them to hope Evo 2 hubs. I have had a look through the thread (not every post though!) and am wondering what length spokes and nipples people have used? Cheers


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  3. #903
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    I ordered spokes and nipples from Dan's Comp. The Sapim price is great at Dan's. 261mm left side front, 263 left side rear, 263 right side front, 261 right side rear. I had them laced 3X to my EVO 2's. Good luck, you will love them.

  4. #904
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    Finally hubs are in now just waiting for my wheels to be build ill report back once they are built!

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-10468636_10154272741570494_8658257990515557090_n.jpg

  5. #905
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    Re: 650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    I ordered spokes and nipples from Dan's Comp. The Sapim price is great at Dan's. 261mm left side front, 263 left side rear, 263 right side front, 261 right side rear. I had them laced 3X to my EVO 2's. Good luck, you will love them.
    Thanks dawg!

  6. #906
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Finally got the wheels built! Wow this wheels grip like a magnet on the trails.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]905550[/ATTACH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-derby.jpg  

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-troy3.jpg  

    Last edited by p0r0y; 07-03-2014 at 08:39 AM.

  7. #907
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    I managed to get one of the first sets of 26" rims, the DH layups, a few weeks back. Decided to build them myself as my first wheel building experience. Went pretty straight forward overall. Hope Pro2 Evos with Wheelsmith db14 2.0/1.7g and alloy nipples. Finished the rear wheel today. I rode yesterday with just the front wheel and great zombie jesus is that thing amazing! So much traction it's insane. Can't say enough about how well it went, literally cheering as I rode downhill. 650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-picture-060.jpg650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-picture-059.jpg650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-picture-058.jpg650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-picture-061.jpg

  8. #908
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    ^ They are really that good?

  9. #909
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    Hey fellas. I have I9 Torch hubs and built them up with 258mm spokes 3x lacing drive side and 2x NDS front hub. According to Ray, the 258mm should have worked but the NDS spokes are too long. The lacing has to be correct else it would not have laced up at all. Could I have done something else wrong? Please advise.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  10. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Hey fellas. I have I9 Torch hubs and built them up with 258mm spokes 3x lacing drive side and 2x NDS front hub. According to Ray, the 258mm should have worked but the NDS spokes are too long. The lacing has to be correct else it would not have laced up at all. Could I have done something else wrong? Please advise.
    I would think mixing two & three cross you would need different length spokes.
    This sites calculations has worked fairly well for me ;
    Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com

  11. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by geo025 View Post
    I would think mixing two & three cross you would need different length spokes.
    This sites calculations has worked fairly well for me ;
    Spoke Calculator for bicycle wheels | Prowheelbuilder.com
    Yeah, i would have thought that too. But Ray said 258s should work 3x DS and 2X NDS. The calculator comes up with 258mm NDS also when I select 2x lacing. But how does it work with mixed lacing? When I select 3x lacing it comes up with 262mm DS and 265mm NDS.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  12. #912
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    ^^^ You take the NDS 2x calculation & the DS 3x calculation.
    As long as you're putting in the right ERD & the hub listed on the calculator is what you have it should be correct.

  13. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    I ordered spokes and nipples from Dan's Comp. The Sapim price is great at Dan's. 261mm left side front, 263 left side rear, 263 right side front, 261 right side rear. I had them laced 3X to my EVO 2's. Good luck, you will love them.
    Just a quick one.... Ray mentioned 258 but could be a couple of mm longer, now I'm confused!

  14. #914
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    I just got in my first ride on my Derby rims today. I have the 27.5 HDs built with Chris King hubs. They're a pretty big improvement over the DT Swiss wheels I've been riding.

  15. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshboston View Post
    I just got in my first ride on my Derby rims today. I have the 27.5 HDs built with Chris King hubs. They're a pretty big improvement over the DT Swiss wheels I've been riding.
    Show us some pics!

  16. #916
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    Wheelbuilders:Help please!

    Front Industry 9 Torch hub
    3x Disc Side
    2x Non Disc Side
    258mm spokes (On Ray's recommendation)

    The 2x NDS came up too long. Using a Sapim's and DT Swiss calculators it came up with:

    261mm NDS
    265mm DS

    On mine, the 3x DS was fine with 258mm but it's the 2x NDS that came up too long by about 4mm or so (Guessing). I'm confused since two calculators came up with LONGER lengths not shorter lengths.

    Help greatly appreciated.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  17. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Wheelbuilders:Help please!

    Front Industry 9 Torch hub
    3x Disc Side
    2x Non Disc Side
    258mm spokes (On Ray's recommendation)

    The 2x NDS came up too long. Using a Sapim's and DT Swiss calculators it came up with:

    261mm NDS
    265mm DS

    On mine, the 3x DS was fine with 258mm but it's the 2x NDS that came up too long by about 4mm or so (Guessing). I'm confused since two calculators came up with LONGER lengths not shorter lengths.

    Help greatly appreciated.
    I'm no wheel builder, but I'll try to help. What ERD are you using for the rims? What dimensions are you using for the hubs?

    I found this for the hub dimensions, is that what you are using? http://www.industrynine.net/files/fi...Flange_doc.pdf

    I found an ERD of 542 from a post a few pages back, measured.

    Putting that into the DT calculator, I get 261 disc side & 257 non disc side

    Also, what nipples and spokes are you using?

    Lastly, the DT calculator asks for spoke hole diameter, what should that be? I used 2.5.

  18. #918
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    you may have the nds spokes in the wrong holes on the flange try moving all the spokes one hole over in the hub. just an idea not sure if it is your problem though.

  19. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver2ks4 View Post
    you may have the nds spokes in the wrong holes on the flange try moving all the spokes one hole over in the hub. just an idea not sure if it is your problem though.
    Thanks. If the holes didn't line up, the spokes would not have lined up properly at the end of the build. With lacing, its either a fit or it doesnt process.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  20. #920
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    Is anyone using valve extenders for when they need to throw in a tube? Finally FINALLY finishing a build that has been going on for a whole year - just getting some tubes incase the tubeless goes 'pop' - unbelievably stoked

  21. #921
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by thegnarlycenturion View Post
    Is anyone using valve extenders for when they need to throw in a tube? Finally FINALLY finishing a build that has been going on for a whole year - just getting some tubes incase the tubeless goes 'pop' - unbelievably stoked
    Just make sure your tubes have 44 mm stems.

  22. #922
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    I would agree, but it isn't a bad idea to have a valve extender. I needed an extra tube in Bend a few weeks ago and even with all the bike shops, it took 4 bike shops to find a 27.5 tube with 44mm stems.

  23. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    I would agree, but it isn't a bad idea to have a valve extender. I needed an extra tube in Bend a few weeks ago and even with all the bike shops, it took 4 bike shops to find a 27.5 tube with 44mm stems.
    BTW, a 26" tube will work just fine in a 27.5 tire. I've used 26" tubes in 29er tires without issue as well. It should be easier to find a 26" tube with a 44mm valve stem.

  24. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    I would agree, but it isn't a bad idea to have a valve extender. I needed an extra tube in Bend a few weeks ago and even with all the bike shops, it took 4 bike shops to find a 27.5 tube with 44mm stems.
    The Bontrager 27.5 tubes have the long valve stems.

    I've been having a bit of bad luck recently with slashed tires. I've had to throw in a tube on 2 different rides at 2 different locations(southern california and northern california). Both times I got bontrager tubes and they fit the Derby rims with no issues

  25. #925
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    I just sliced two side walls on my high roller 2s i had to walk out of the woods this last time, i took my hand pump out of my pack and forgot to put it back i just put a bontrager xr3 2.35 tire on the back, i dont think this tire will work very well. The side wall comes out as far as the side lugs. I ordered some xr4 2.35, they are a little more meaty. Who using a tire with good side wall protection?
    Once you go slack, you never go back!

  26. #926
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by vice grips View Post
    I just sliced two side walls on my high roller 2s i had to walk out of the woods this last time, i took my hand pump out of my pack and forgot to put it back i just put a bontrager xr3 2.35 tire on the back, i dont think this tire will work very well. The side wall comes out as far as the side lugs. I ordered some xr4 2.35, they are a little more meaty. Who using a tire with good side wall protection?
    Were the HR2's EXO?

  27. #927
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    BTW, a 26" tube will work just fine in a 27.5 tire. I've used 26" tubes in 29er tires without issue as well. It should be easier to find a 26" tube with a 44mm valve stem.
    +1. I just buy 26" tubes. I've never even tried to find a 27.5.

  28. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Were the HR2's EXO?
    Yup
    Once you go slack, you never go back!

  29. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by vice grips View Post
    I just sliced two side walls on my high roller 2s i had to walk out of the woods this last time, i took my hand pump out of my pack and forgot to put it back i just put a bontrager xr3 2.35 tire on the back, i dont think this tire will work very well. The side wall comes out as far as the side lugs. I ordered some xr4 2.35, they are a little more meaty. Who using a tire with good side wall protection?
    I have been running an HR2 on the front for about 300 miles now without issue.

  30. #930
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    My front is still holing air too, but put a few slices in my rear one was to big for the Stan's to seal up. I pulled and patched it ill use it for a back up
    Once you go slack, you never go back!

  31. #931
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    Some pics, as requested.
    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-20140706_180518.jpg650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-20140706_180548.jpg650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-20140706_180531.jpg

  32. #932
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    That thing looks slick!
    Your tail won't be quite as hard any more with those Derby's... what pressure you running?

  33. #933
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    Yeah, the tail has softened up considerably and the grip is better all around whether climbing or cornering. It feels faster too, so it's pretty much win-win. I'm running just under 25psi.

    I'd like to try some more aggressive tires like Magic Marys or HR IIs but I'll probably have to upgrade my fork to get them to fit.

  34. #934
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    Hello from Spain.

    After reading 38 pages ......yesterday I ordered two rings on 27.5 HD.

    I think Ray are a person ahead of his time, a visionary.

    Looking forward to arriving

    Tic, tac, tic, tac

  35. #935
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    Congrats! Good choice I hope, as I did same today! 650b hd 2 piece
    Only little bit worried that I will smash rear one between two sharp stones, kääk!

  36. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshboston View Post
    Some pics, as requested.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20140706_180518.jpg 
Views:	348 
Size:	249.7 KB 
ID:	906320
    Nice bike, Josh. It looks even better on a trail, it was nice meeting you today! (I am the guy with Derbys you met in the Fells )

  37. #937
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    Just got both my derbys built up having had my chris king hub returned under warranty and fitted and enjoying testing them out



  38. #938
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    Golf Chick! Cool cool cool build! That rare perfect blend of color-matched glam and rock solid function.....surely it rides as fan-farg'n-tastically as it looks... Try not to make everybody else on the trail look lame

  39. #939
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    haha cheers, it rides brilliant yep which is good considering I ride three times a week and do over 100 miles a month even in the winter!

  40. #940
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    Hubs for my derby rims:

    Chris King (Red) or DT240S?

    The price is the same.

    The CK hubs like me much but weigh 140 gr more.

    + / -

    DT240S 410 gr
    CK 550 gr


    What do you think?
    Last edited by Uzzy; 07-13-2014 at 01:32 PM.

  41. #941
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    Dt240s imho.

  42. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Nice bike, Josh. It looks even better on a trail, it was nice meeting you today! (I am the guy with Derbys you met in the Fells )
    Thanks man. Your bike isn't too shabby either. Must be the Derby rims

  43. #943
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    I bought a Thule Doubletrack hitch rack, platform tray type and with these tall wheels the strap does not reach, they are ~1" short from reaching the clasp. Anyone else with this issue, solution??? No I will not deflate my tires every time out!


  44. #944
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    Call Thule.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  45. #945
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    I bought a Thule Doubletrack hitch rack, platform tray type and with these tall wheels the strap does not reach, they are ~1" short from reaching the clasp. Anyone else with this issue, solution??? No I will not deflate my tires every time out!

    You need a Thule Fat tire Kit 919.

    http://www.thule.com/en-us/us/produc...-919-_-1684677



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  46. #946
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    Awesome, thanks for that. I will check tomorrow to see if it is compatible with the Doubletrack, says its for the T2.

    Edit, found this- Designed for use with T2, Doubletrack, Roadway and Parkway

  47. #947
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    I recently switched to a roof rack and have to take my front wheel off to mount it.
    Well, I'm an idiot, and I left my wheel sitting against the car as I drove home from the trail yesterday.
    Realized it when I got home, hauled ass back to the trailhead and luckily my wheel was still there.
    Evidently I drove over it to some degree, the brake rotor was bent to hell.
    Unbelievably, the rim is fine. Still perfectly true, just a few new scratches.

  48. #948
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    Good thing you found it, wow...

    I forgot to mention, I used to use my truck bed mount when I had the Pike lever release, one of the main reasons I got the hitch rack is I have the 2015 Fox 36 that requires tools to remove the wheel. Thule Fat bike kit is on its way to me!

  49. #949
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    Got my wheels, King with CX Rays all black, massive thanks to Ray for all the emails and updates, and a special thanks to David Hunt @ dcrwheels for building them up.
    Just need to get my bike now and start my dream build!! Can't wait to give them a good thrashing.

  50. #950
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    I broke a spoke racing this weekend on my Derby's. Shockingly rim was still and stayed true for the rest of the day through my race and practice runs. These were full DH (Trestle DH/Rainmaker/Mountain Goat at Winter Park) courses run on trail bikes and definitely a test of every component on the bike especially the rims. Over the course of the weekend they were bashed through rock gardens at mach chicken. End result, lots of new love taps and scratches to remember the weekend by and I love these rims more every day.

  51. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I broke a spoke racing this weekend on my Derby's. Shockingly rim was still and stayed true for the rest of the day through my race and practice runs. These were full DH (Trestle DH/Rainmaker/Mountain Goat at Winter Park) courses run on trail bikes and definitely a test of every component on the bike especially the rims. Over the course of the weekend they were bashed through rock gardens at mach chicken. End result, lots of new love taps and scratches to remember the weekend by and I love these rims more every day.

    Anyone comment on them?

    Over the past two months people are starting to know on site that they are Derby's. At first people just assumed they were "those Chinese rims"
    they'd heard about. The guys at Ashland Mountain Adventures, a couple of random guys on my local trails and one of the local
    Pro's asked if they were Derby's.

  52. #952
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    Yep, I've broken 2 adjacent/same side spokes on my front wheel, and it came out of true by a whopping 2-3mm, and was totally rideable and imperceptible.

  53. #953
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    Nice one SP! What layup rims do you have?
    Once you go slack, you never go back!

  54. #954
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  55. #955
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    I am not handy; How difficult is it to mount tires on Derby Rims?

    Until now, I have used Mavic 819 UST rims; I am not very handy and have weak hands, so I am able to mount UST tires with difficulty. How much harder will it be to mount tires (tubeless ready, UST or regular) on Derby Rims? I am willing to limit myself to tires which are easy to mount.

    Also, please describe how to mount tires on Derby Rims with a floor pump. Does anyone have a video of this?

    (Sorry, I can't figure out how not to make this a subthread of the previous thread.)

    Mark
    Last edited by moshemark; 08-01-2014 at 06:05 AM. Reason: mistake

  56. #956
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    ignore this; posted by mistake

  57. #957
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    Hi. I'm enjoying these rings since January. I would protect them aesthetically

    Could you recommend me some vinyl?

    Thanks in advance

  58. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by moshemark View Post
    Until now, I have used Mavic 819 UST rims; I am not very handy and have weak hands, so I am able to mount UST tires with difficulty. How much harder will it be to mount tires (tubeless ready, UST or regular) on Derby Rims? I am willing to limit myself to tires which are easy to mount.

    Also, please describe how to mount tires on Derby Rims with a floor pump. Does anyone have a video of this?

    (Sorry, I can't figure out how not to make this a subthread of the previous thread.)

    Mark
    I have mounted two sets of Maxxis EXO Tubeless Ready tires to Derby rims (one pair on 29 HD rims and the other set on 27.5 HD rims) and each had its own challenges. With the 29er rims, I broke one Pedro's tire lever, but had an easier time getting the rest of the bead on after that. With the 27.5 rims, I broke one Pedro's tire lever, but had a much harder time getting the rest of the bead on. This could be because they are 5mm wider than the 29er rims. I would recommend using the aid of mild soap and water on the bead or some other type of recommended lubricant and taking your time. I actually had to lay mine on the ground and put my foot on the bead to keep it from unseating.

    As far as mounting the tires with a floor pump, what they mean is airing your tires up with the floor pump to seat the bead rather than using a air compressor. Most tubeless tires/rim combos need the aid of quick burst of air from a compressor to get the bead set, but since the bead to rim is so tight with the Derbys, you can air them up to seat the bead with a floor pump because they already have a tight seal.
    Bikes

  59. #959
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    My experience is opposite of prophets.
    I find tires to be fairly easy to mount, but hard to seat with a floor pump.

    The secret for mounting is to make sure that the bead of the first side is entirely in the center channel and against the wall of the channel on the same side as the other bead. I've put maybe 7 different tires on my Derby's and haven't had to use levers.
    If you have weak hands, just invest in a small inexpensive compressor. It'll make your life much easier. Otherwise, just seat the beads with a tube then undo one side of the bead and pull the tube. With one side of the bead set the other side should easily reseat with a floor pump. I had to do this prior to buying a compressor. No need to leave the tube in overnight either.

  60. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by will 6.6 View Post
    Got my wheels, King with CX Rays all black, massive thanks to Ray for all the emails and updates, and a special thanks to David Hunt @ dcrwheels for building them up.
    Just need to get my bike now and start my dream build!! Can't wait to give them a good thrashing.
    Hi.

    I have derby + Chris King ISO 15x100 and 12x142 and I want to buy 14mm nipples and Sapim CX Ray spokes.

    I used three calculators spokes and the calculators indicate three different length of spokes

    What spoke length you used?

    Thank you
    Last edited by Uzzy; 08-02-2014 at 11:02 AM. Reason: text

  61. #961
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    Sorry
    Last edited by Uzzy; 08-03-2014 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Sorry

  62. #962
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    Can someone help me choose the spokes length I need?

    ERD 544 mm Derby rims 27.5 + Chris King ISO 15x100 and 12x142

    Election: 14 mm nipples + Sapim CX RAY

    Thank you

    Three different lengths.....

    261 mm, 262 mm, 262 mm, 261 mm
    261 mm, 263 mm, 263 mm, 261 mm
    263 mm, 264 mm, 265 mm, 263 mm
    ...

    HUBS SPECS
    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-chris-king-iso-specs.jpg

    DT CALCULATOR
    Welcome

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-dt-fron-rear.jpg

    WHEELPRO CALCULATOR
    Spoke length calculator for wheel building

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-wheelpro-front.jpg

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-wheelpro-rear.jpg

    SAPIM CALCULATOR
    Spoke calculator | Sapim

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-sapim-front.jpg

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-sapim-rear.jpg
    Last edited by Uzzy; 08-03-2014 at 02:57 PM. Reason: TEXT

  63. #963
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    My experience is opposite of prophets.
    I find tires to be fairly easy to mount, but hard to seat with a floor pump.

    The secret for mounting is to make sure that the bead of the first side is entirely in the center channel and against the wall of the channel on the same side as the other bead. I've put maybe 7 different tires on my Derby's and haven't had to use levers.
    If you have weak hands, just invest in a small inexpensive compressor. It'll make your life much easier. Otherwise, just seat the beads with a tube then undo one side of the bead and pull the tube. With one side of the bead set the other side should easily reseat with a floor pump. I had to do this prior to buying a compressor. No need to leave the tube in overnight either.
    Ditto. Most tires have been very easy to mount by hand...just make sure the bead is in the center channel...but then they're hard to impossible to inflate without using a compressor or burning through CO2 cartridges. Minion DHF tubeless ready WAS the only one I was able to inflate with a floor pump, but only after it had been mounted for a while.
    Now I'm trying a Geax Goma TNT and it's the opposite..hard as hell to mount, but then inflates almost as easy as a tube tire does with a floorpump.
    Pick your poison.

  64. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzy View Post
    Can someone help me choose the spokes length I need?

    ERD 544 mm Derby rims 27.5 + Chris King ISO 15x100 and 12x142

    Election: 14 mm nipples + Sapim CX RAY

    Thank you

    Three different lengths.....

    261 mm, 262 mm, 262 mm, 261 mm
    261 mm, 263 mm, 263 mm, 261 mm
    263 mm, 264 mm, 265 mm, 263 mm
    ...

    HUBS SPECS
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	chris king iso specs.jpg 
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ID:	912977

    DT CALCULATOR
    Welcome

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DT FRON AND REAR.JPG 
Views:	301 
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ID:	912980

    WHEELPRO CALCULATOR
    Spoke length calculator for wheel building

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WHEELPRO FRONT.JPG 
Views:	164 
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ID:	912981

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WHEELPRO REAR.JPG 
Views:	298 
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ID:	912982

    SAPIM CALCULATOR
    Spoke calculator | Sapim

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SAPIM FRONT.jpg 
Views:	165 
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ID:	912983

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SAPIM REAR.jpg 
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ID:	912984
    I've used the DT calculator for several builds now and it has been on the money.

    Looking at those numbers, I'd just go 262 all the way around.

  65. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    I've used the DT calculator for several builds now and it has been on the money.

    Looking at those numbers, I'd just go 262 all the way around.
    Ditto on the DT calculator, it's come through every time for me. I've fudged the spoke length before to use same length all around (such as the 262 scenario) and I've done the 'correct' length. Every wheel has built up fine but I've never regretted buying the calculated length rather than the fudged length.
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  66. #966
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    I think I now understand what happens

    The DT alculator ...............................................ask s mm nipples
    The WHEELPRO calculator ...........................asks mm nipples
    The SAPIM calculator ......................................doesn't ask mm nipples
    The PROWHEELBUILDER calculator ..........doesn't ask mm nipples

    Derby + CK ISO + Sapim CX Ray:

    DT (12 mm nipples)
    262.00 mm, 263.00 mm, 263.30 mm 261.90 mm

    WHEELPRO (12mm nipples)
    263.10 mm, 261.60 mm, 261.8 mm, 262.90 mm

    SAPIM (no nipples)
    263.00 mm, 264.00 mm, 265.00 mm, 263.00 mm

    PROWHEELBUILDER (no nipples)
    263.30 mm, 264.20 mm, 264.60 mm, 263.20 mm

    Is it necessary that the spoke reaches the end of the head nipple?

    Which is better? short spoke? Long spoke?

    What length would you choose?

    12 mm or 14 mm nipples?


    Sorry....it's the first time

  67. #967
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    All things equal, I round down.
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  68. #968
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    Be careful rounding down on spokes. The threads NEED to go into the head of the nipple. If it is only in the stem, you'll break off the nipple head on rides, soon.

  69. #969
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    True, but in a built wheel the spokes are generally yielded a small amount at the flange end by stress relieving. Also some rims yield a small amount around the nipple seats. I only round down to the next closest size so generally in that case the end of the spoke will be about even with the top of the nipple head [the part that is seated on the rim]. Also, I once had the opposite problem before I started rounding down. I built a wheel and after about a year and a half, I was truing it, but I ran out of thread on one spoke because of the spokes wearing in on the flange seats and yielding at the elbows and probably the rim yielding, etc. So I rebuilt the wheel with new shorter spokes on that entire side.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  70. #970
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    I found an ERD of 542 mm from a post in all pages back (27,5 rim)


    But Derby website.....ERD = 544 mm

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-2014-08-06-002733_1440x900_scrot.jpg


    What I use?
    Last edited by Uzzy; 08-05-2014 at 03:37 PM. Reason: text

  71. #971
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    Guys, had a few private messages, but i can't reply? if you contact David Hunt @ dcrwheels, I'm sure he could help out, or has the info on his website.
    cheers

  72. #972
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    To will 6.6

    when you go to a bike shop to build your wheels dependent (dcrwheels) , usually gives you a paper with the lengths of the spokes and tension.

    Do you have your paper?

    Do you know the length of your spokes?

    I have derby + Chris King ISO 15x100 and 12x142 and I want to buy 14mm nipples and Sapim CX Ray spokes.

  73. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzy View Post
    I found an ERD of 542 mm from a post in all pages back (27,5 rim)


    But Derby website.....ERD = 544 mm

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2014-08-06-002733_1440x900_scrot.jpg 
Views:	189 
Size:	97.3 KB 
ID:	913567


    What I use?
    If you've purchased your rims recently then definitely use 544. When I built my first 2 rims from the first production run last year the site was saying 542. The one I built up last week I used the current 544 #. Both builds went great. I don't know if anything really changed about the rims' ERD, but Ray's numbers have been good in both cases.

  74. #974
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    OK.

    Thank you very much.

  75. #975
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    Folks,

    I'm slowing reading my way through this long thread, tons of great info here. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a set of these. I'm about 205 or so geared up, and ride fairly agressively at times (jumps, doubles, drops, blah blah.)

    I was thinking about building them up on a set of Kings I have, with brass nipples and Sapim Laser spokes. Does that sound like a solid build, or anyone feel I should go a different route? I'd like to do the X-rays, but from what I read the weight difference is negligible with the Lasers, although the price is about 3x extra per spoke.

    Thanks for any thoughts/advice.
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  76. #976
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    Sounds like a reasonable plan to me.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  77. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Folks,

    I'm slowing reading my way through this long thread, tons of great info here. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a set of these. I'm about 205 or so geared up, and ride fairly agressively at times (jumps, doubles, drops, blah blah.)

    I was thinking about building them up on a set of Kings I have, with brass nipples and Sapim Laser spokes. Does that sound like a solid build, or anyone feel I should go a different route? I'd like to do the X-rays, but from what I read the weight difference is negligible with the Lasers, although the price is about 3x extra per spoke.

    Thanks for any thoughts/advice.
    Get the HD layup or DH for the rear if they are available in 27.5 yet.
    I have the HD on the rear and the lighter one in the front. Laced to Kings with DT Comps and Alu nips.
    I just broke my first spoke on the rear. Nipples are fine and show no corrosion or anode sacrifice.
    When I break 1 or 2 more spokes I'll relace with some bladed spokes, whatever I can get a good deal on at the time.

    You'll have a bombproof wheel if built well.

  78. #978
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    Thanks for the info. Forgot to mention my plan was to go for the HD layup front and rear, sorry.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  79. #979
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    Any reports on the 26rs? Wondering if they might be too stiff

  80. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Any reports on the 26rs? Wondering if they might be too stiff
    Is that like asking if boobs can be too big?
    Once you go slack, you never go back!

  81. #981
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    Boobs can be to big.

  82. #982
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    In theory, vice grips is right. In reality Shawn is. Damn you Shawn.
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  83. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 68 Hundred View Post
    In theory, vice grips is right. In reality Shawn is. Damn you Shawn.
    Sorry man! I like em big. But, I'll take small and perky over big and floppy any day.

  84. #984
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    A few thoughts, observations, questions...a little background first, hopefully this info will provide insight to someone who is wiser that I.
    Rolling on a new set of 650b HDs on Pro2 evos, dt comp 1.8-2.0. Currently Ardent 2.25" ust rear (narrow, I know) and high roller2 2.4" front (thats more like it). also running stans sealant, though intentionally trying to go light here and see how it holds up.

    So, first, I weigh somewhere in the 190# range, dont have the chance to ride much, so I ride angrily when I do, in vermont, where all the riding is angry. these rims have around a dozen good 2 hours rides, have been tensioned since building.

    #1: Riding relatively consistently at 20psi, front and rear, I have catastrophically punctured 2 new tires, both rear, each with less that 4-5 rides, so new essentially. Also have seen some burping, agian in the rear. What would folks recommend for pressure at 190#? also, what do I lose in performance by bumping up to 25psi or so, if anything?

    #2: More complicated thing here. Wondering if anyone has a good source on tensioning and truing carbon wheels. the rim seems to play a much different role in tension and the dispersion of force, so I am assuming actively re-tensioning, and certainly truing change. Is there a comprehensive resource for this? This question is derived from curiosity as well as need. Did one of those stuff-your-front-wheel-at-low-speed-dramatic-slow-roll crashes this past weekent and threw the front rim out pretty significantly, both out of true, as well as round. Have I actually deformed or "bent" the rim (seems illogical with carbon), or have I created an uneven gradient in tension in the spokes that is pulling the rim out of balance? the latter seems more likely to me. does that mean those spokes are compromised? Should the trueing and tensioning of this bent wheel be approached in classic alu fashion, or is there dark magic at plak here? I have half a mind to fully untension all spokes, and simply re-tension them, just for shits and giggles to see if the rim snaps back to original shape and pretned like nothing happened. It sounds insane, but someone should tell me that with a good reason not to, or I might be dumb enough to try it.

    #3: slow leaks. anyone else find this? I coule be running more stans sealant, wanted to see what I can get away with. what are yall doing to create a good seal?

    Anyways, love em, just want to learn more about em.

  85. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by vice grips View Post
    Is that like asking if boobs can be too big?
    Great question for sure, made me question my question

  86. #986
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    Quote Originally Posted by planetx88 View Post
    A few thoughts, observations, questions...a little background first, hopefully this info will provide insight to someone who is wiser that I.
    Rolling on a new set of 650b HDs on Pro2 evos, dt comp 1.8-2.0. Currently Ardent 2.25" ust rear (narrow, I know) and high roller2 2.4" front (thats more like it). also running stans sealant, though intentionally trying to go light here and see how it holds up.

    So, first, I weigh somewhere in the 190# range, dont have the chance to ride much, so I ride angrily when I do, in vermont, where all the riding is angry. these rims have around a dozen good 2 hours rides, have been tensioned since building.

    #1: Riding relatively consistently at 20psi, front and rear, I have catastrophically punctured 2 new tires, both rear, each with less that 4-5 rides, so new essentially. Also have seen some burping, agian in the rear. What would folks recommend for pressure at 190#? also, what do I lose in performance by bumping up to 25psi or so, if anything?

    #2: More complicated thing here. Wondering if anyone has a good source on tensioning and truing carbon wheels. the rim seems to play a much different role in tension and the dispersion of force, so I am assuming actively re-tensioning, and certainly truing change. Is there a comprehensive resource for this? This question is derived from curiosity as well as need. Did one of those stuff-your-front-wheel-at-low-speed-dramatic-slow-roll crashes this past weekent and threw the front rim out pretty significantly, both out of true, as well as round. Have I actually deformed or "bent" the rim (seems illogical with carbon), or have I created an uneven gradient in tension in the spokes that is pulling the rim out of balance? the latter seems more likely to me. does that mean those spokes are compromised? Should the trueing and tensioning of this bent wheel be approached in classic alu fashion, or is there dark magic at plak here? I have half a mind to fully untension all spokes, and simply re-tension them, just for shits and giggles to see if the rim snaps back to original shape and pretned like nothing happened. It sounds insane, but someone should tell me that with a good reason not to, or I might be dumb enough to try it.

    #3: slow leaks. anyone else find this? I coule be running more stans sealant, wanted to see what I can get away with. what are yall doing to create a good seal?

    Anyways, love em, just want to learn more about em.
    Here in Socal we get a lot of high speed rocks as well. The low PSI is fine at lower speeds and on smoother terrain. Otherwise it is not going to work well. I had the same problem with piercing casings very frequently. The benefits do not go away though. You still can run lower pressures than normal and you will have a much better contact patch and better sidewall support.

    On the second part how are you tensioning the rim? Are you tensioning in sequence or using the 1/4 pattern. My guess is that you are tensioning in sequence which will asymmetrically load the rim. This can cause the rim to "pop" when it goes out of true because so much tension is required to pull the rim back. My recommendation would be to detension the wheel and do it over again.

    I have no slow leaks in mine.

  87. #987
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    appreciate the info! do you have experience with the untensioning bit? I can imagine what it will be like, just trying to garner all the resources I can.

    also, yes tensioning in sequence.

  88. #988
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    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening

    Planetx, your crash likely side loaded the rim enough to allow some spokes to go completely loose momentarily, and in that instant nipples can spin and cause a big loss in tension and make things look worse than they really are. Using spoke prep, loctite, or some other thread locking compound can make a big difference here.
    I'm sure your rim is not permanently deformed, but if you start plucking spokes like a guitar you'll probably find spokes that are really loose (lower tone than others)...just retrue as normal.

    I've done nothing different with the few carbon wheels I've built vs the many alu...none of the basic concepts change...ie, moderately high and even tension is the goal, and a spoke thread treatment to maintain that tension even if you have a "slack spoke" incident.

  89. #989
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    Need to loosen spokes first.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  90. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Great question for sure, made me question my question
    I think that you can make wheels that are too stiff. If you applied the tricks that they use (not sure they still do) to get track wheels stiff for sprinters, like soldering spokes together where they cross, I think that you could get a wheel that was uncomfortable to ride as well as not as resilient as a normal wheel. But as far as having a rim that is too stiff, I don't think that you can really do that. Carbon rims are both stiffer and don't transmit as much vibration at the same time.

    I have a pair of 27.5 x 40mm Derby rims that I really like.

  91. #991
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Planetx, your crash likely side loaded the rim enough to allow some spokes to go completely loose momentarily, and in that instant nipples can spin and cause a big loss in tension and make things look worse than they really are. Using spoke prep, loctite, or some other thread locking compound can make a big difference here.
    I'm sure your rim is not permanently deformed, but if you start plucking spokes like a guitar you'll probably find spokes that are really loose (lower tone than others)...just retrue as normal.

    I've done nothing different with the few carbon wheels I've built vs the many alu...none of the basic concepts change...ie, moderately high and even tension is the goal, and a spoke thread treatment to maintain that tension even if you have a "slack spoke" incident.
    The only way a hard hit will cause nipples to spin is if the wheel wasnt properly destressed to account for spokes winding up during the tensioning.

    You can use all the loctite in the world to keep the nipples from turning on the spokes threads, but if the spokes are twisted, a hard hit will still allow the spoke to unwind, then all youll have is loctited nipples to the spokes, and have to figure out how youll turn the nipples without retwisting the spokes.

    I never use any sort of thread locking compound, have derby rims, and have no problems.

    Good reading: Wheels
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  92. #992
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    Derby Porn...

    Here's mine... I mistakenly posted it on the 29" Derby forum but here it is.

    Both laced to I9 Torch hubs: Front is 15mm and rear 12x142 with XD driver.

    Will post more photos as soon as my bike is completely built. Hopefully by next week.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-i9-travertine.jpg  

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-i9-front-15mm-thru.jpg  

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-i9-rear-xd.jpg  

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-i9-valve-stem.jpg  

    650b x 40mm carbon fiber DERBY RIMS Grand Opening-i9-profile.jpg  

    Last edited by slowracle; 09-16-2014 at 12:51 PM. Reason: added a photo

  93. #993
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    Beautiful build

  94. #994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Beautiful build
    Thank you Salespunk!
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  95. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandSpur View Post
    The only way a hard hit will cause nipples to spin is if the wheel wasnt properly destressed to account for spokes winding up during the tensioning.

    You can use all the loctite in the world to keep the nipples from turning on the spokes threads, but if the spokes are twisted, a hard hit will still allow the spoke to unwind, then all youll have is loctited nipples to the spokes, and have to figure out how youll turn the nipples without retwisting the spokes.

    I never use any sort of thread locking compound, have derby rims, and have no problems.

    Good reading: Wheels
    Yes, twisted spokes are undesirable and a symptom of a less-than-ideal wheel build...which may very well be the case here.

    Likewise, "all the loctite in the world" is also an undesirable condition. You'd also want to choose your loctite type carefully, and perhaps not use it at all with really light gauge spokes and/or rookie builder. There are plenty of other thread preps available.

    However, nipples can absolutely vibrate and move in a zero tension - crash in progress - impact scenario, whether spokes are wound up or not....seen it happen a number of times.

    Treated threads will maintain spoke tension over time better than non-treated ones on wheels that get ridden... this is not new, revolutionary, or commonly debated wisdom. Get back to us with some tension values after you've been riding those Derby wheels hard for 5+ years without any retensioning/truing.


  96. #996
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    Did you send the rims direct to I9 to be built? Contemplating going that route myself...

  97. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelly_NH View Post
    Did you send the rims direct to I9 to be built? Contemplating going that route myself...
    I purchased my Derby rims and had it shipped straight to I9 to get it laced. You will first have to get an RMA# from I9 so Derby can ship it to them.

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    I'm Loving my Derby 26ers, came from 30mm wide rims to these using the same Bonty XR4 team issues 2.2 that are a year old running on an Intense Carbine. So MUch more grip, at my local trail center that's 15 months old I've managed to break PRs on fast sections that were a year old, before the Derby's I felt as if getting to close to crashing to break those times, better technique would obviously help. Take into consideration the the Trails are also getting worn out making it harder to break times. Even the pedally sinlge track times from a year back fell, as I could find more grip, get on the pedals earlier and cut more inside lines. So same bike same tires new 40mm wide wheels = for me more grip, more speed and feels safer to ride. I weigh 190lbs in Kit and 19psi up front and 21 on the back. Not forgetting tha Ray is so helpful, throughly nice individual and supporting our 26 inch wheelers!
    Last edited by Radical Ride; 09-25-2014 at 10:12 AM.

  100. #1000
    mtbr member
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    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    77
    Has anybody stuffed wtb's new 2.8 trailblazer on a derby Into fox 34 650 fork? I have put a 29er wheel and tire in mine with clearance just wondering how the clearance was with the trailblazer.

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