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  1. #1
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    650b UCI downhill victory?

    Opening round won by a Alexandre Fayolle on a 27.5. Interesting since the 29er downhill bikes are supposed to be the second coming of awesomeness.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter58 View Post
    Opening round won by a Alexandre Fayolle on a 27.5. Interesting since the 29er downhill bikes are supposed to be the second coming of awesomeness.
    No one who qualified in the top 10 finished in the top 10.

    29ers qualified 1st, 3rd and 6th. The track turned into a swamp as the day progressed. Meaning, the slow qualifiers had a fast, dry-ish run. If you'd actually watched the race, instead of just trying to troll, you'd know that.

    Qualifying:

    1. Loris Vergier +0.000
    2. Loïc Bruni +0.422
    3. Luca Shaw +0.584
    4. Danny Hart +0.645
    5. Aaron Gwin +1.308
    6. Greg Minnaar +1.412
    7. Troy Brosnan +1.825
    8. Remi Thirion +2.132
    9. Bernard Kerr +2.637
    10. Brook Macdonald +3.172

    Final Results:

    1 // Alexandre Fayolle
    2 // Mark Wallace
    3 // Marcelo Gutierrez
    4 // Florent Payet
    5 // Connor Fearon
    6 Rupert Chapman
    7 Neko Mulally
    8 Amaury Pierron
    9 Benoit Coulanges
    10 Gee Atherton
    Death from Below.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter58 View Post
    ...won (...) on a 27.5.
    Interesting...
    I'm always amazed that people like you can draw a conclusion from one single event. 29" the next best thing in DH worldcup based on what? The fact that 29" downhill bikes exist?

    Maybe he would also have won on a 29" this day?
    Maybe he would also have won on a 26"...?

    Maybe he was just the fastest today and the influence of the bike was negligent?

    And even if 27.5" is now faster in XC while 29" is faster in a DH worldcup, would you, as a casual rider, now switch over to the Pros wheelsize because in other sports running the exact same equipment with the same setup the pros do has proven to be very reasonable? (Skiing, Tennis...)

    Or maybe you're one of these guys who can drop a dice and it always lands on the same number thus your understanding how the world works is kinda twisted.

  4. #4
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    I think you are almost a entire week behind the times. Been sleeping or hiding in a hole?

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    Even though this thread started out in the wrong direction, the qualifying results from Lourdes are interesting as LD pointed out: three 29ers in the top seven times posted over the weekend. And this on a steep, technical track that by conventional wisdom wouldn't play to the 29er's strong suit. It's definitely going to be an interesting season as teams transition unevenly to 29 and then figure out if they want to ride it on all the tracks.

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    I ride all three wheel sizes, I like them all, have a nice day.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by albeant View Post
    the qualifying results from Lourdes are interesting as LD pointed out: three 29ers in the top seven times posted over the weekend.
    From a Pros perspective yes, but the most imortant aspect for a casual rider is fun which is a highly subjective measurement.

    If you know skiing you probably know that the fastest skiers are not the most fun ones to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    From a Pros perspective yes, but the most imortant aspect for a casual rider is fun which is a highly subjective measurement.
    Well, yeah, but the OP was specifically trolling about UCI DH. As for how wheel size determines the fun I'm having, I really don't know. I guess it depends in part on what I think "fun" means.

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    The 27.5 the OP is talking about just happened to be one of the few men's riders that got to ride a dry course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albeant View Post
    Even though this thread started out in the wrong direction, the qualifying results from Lourdes are interesting as LD pointed out: three 29ers in the top seven times posted over the weekend.
    True enough, but those three riders often end up in the top ten, like last year when 2 of 'em were on different teams/brands.
    Oh Man I love racing. For the last few years I'd tune into Redbulltv to see the 20min recaps. Last week I made a point to watch the full 2hr show. fun
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter58 View Post
    I ride all three wheel sizes, I like them all, have a nice day.
    There's only two wheel sizes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    If you know skiing you probably know that the fastest skiers are not the most fun ones to ride.
    I dunno...watching women's WC, that might not be true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    If you know skiing you probably know that the fastest skiers are not the most fun ones to ride.
    I wouldn't know because those gals are too fast for me to catch.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter58 View Post
    I ride all three wheel sizes, I like them all, have a nice day.
    burn that heretic

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    True enough, but those three riders often end up in the top ten, like last year when 2 of 'em were on different teams/brands.
    Lol...this. The three guys that qualified high on the 29r's can land those spots regardless of the wheel size they are on. I'm not a wheel size hater...but the 29 fanboys were claiming victory before the race was actually run.

    If the DH bikes are to move towards the 29r...then so be it. I'm pretty sure Santa Cruz was already planning on bringing the 29r into production. Same with Trek. We'll be seeing the 29r version of the Trek Session soon enough. The two guys from Trek that Dirt interviewed looked deep with butthurt.

    In the end it's about selling bikes. If it does help the industry as a whole sell more bikes...then I'm all for it.

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    Yes, Vergier, Minnar, and Shaw can post top-ten times on 27.5 as well. But I don't think that alone makes the qualifying times insignificant. At the least, they suggest that 29 isn't a hindrance in DH, which flies against what was the popular wisdom just a couple of years ago. At most, the results aren't inconsistent with the hypothesis that 29 offers an advantage.

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    If the times prove faster consistently...then all teams will move towards the 29r. When that happens...the playing field will be level again. I think it will end up a mixed bag with riders using what they feel best on. Something similar to enduro.

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    From the viewing perspective, that would be a great outcome. Having some riders on 29 and others on 275 would create more separation between styles, especially in corners and on difficult sections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albeant View Post
    From the viewing perspective, that would be a great outcome. Having some riders on 29 and others on 275 would create more separation between styles, especially in corners and on difficult sections.
    It is much fun to watch those variations. Especially those strongmen like Gwin. They look like they could bend the bike in-two, and the lines they choose can make you jaw-drop. Compared to Minnaar who seems so smooth (to me) I'm always surprised to see how big he is when standing next to other riders.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter58 View Post
    Opening round won by a Alexandre Fayolle on a 27.5. Interesting since the 29er downhill bikes are supposed to be the second coming of awesomeness.
    That is a nice cat you have.

  21. #21
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    hello everyone

    so hows it going with the 29er downhill bikes?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter58 View Post
    so hows it going with the 29er downhill bikes?
    Greg Minnaar just scored second place on one 2 tenths of a second back from Brosnan, they must really suck.
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Hmm... my take is it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. There is so much variation between rider, track conditions, and setup that this is but a small impact.

    I'm sure glad my girl Madame Myriam won, whatever wheels she was on.
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  24. #24
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    Seems to prove that wheel size dosen't make that much of a difference. At least the difference they are being hyped to be.

    A number of riders are also switching back to the 27.5 for the rest of the season. Looks like a bad idea to make such drastic change when the season has already started. Faircloth and Mudd switched back because they wanted to be more "consistent". Myriam switched back to the 27.5...and she won Saturday. Bike manufacturers are all in a rush to bring out the 29r...with their team riders not really spending enough time on them to get truly comfortable.

  25. #25
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    The other teams are going to test the 29er really hard this off season.

    More teams will stick with 29er wheels next season as they get the geometry dialed.

    The days of 650b wheeled dh bikes are numbered.

    29er fans are happy and 26er fans are happy they skipped the 650b trend.

    I ride a 650b and all mtb related purchases are on hold. F U mtb industry. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaero View Post
    The other teams are going to test the 29er really hard this off season.
    That I'll agree with.

    More teams will stick with 29er wheels next season as they get the geometry dialed.
    Probably true for some teams/riders whom may find that they didn't already have it "dialled".

    The days of 650b wheeled dh bikes are numbered.
    That I doubt. I think you'll find some teams/riders determine that their 29er DH attempts were already close to best possible and don't work - esp shorter riders. Some will probably opt for 29er on high-speed tracks and 27.5 for tighter tech tracks. And others may find that their 29er DH attempt was perfectly fine and the rider simply needed more time on it.

    In summary, it'll be a mixed bag.

    Personally I don't think that it's a coincidence that the guy doing well on 29ers is a tall dude, whom already seemed fast on every other wheel size anyway.

    I ride a 650b and all mtb related purchases are on hold. F U mtb industry. lol
    I'm expecting more brands to go mixed 27.5/29 scaled with frame types, others to push 29er for skinnier tyres and 27.5 for the bigger sizes, and others yet to simply do very little for a while (which we often see with many brands just tweaking existing frames for a few years).

  27. #27
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    I guess Minnaar is using those slow 29" wheels just to make things a little more fair, maybe next week he'll drag an anchor or something.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  28. #28
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    Haa
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  29. #29
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    So the UCI downhill champ was riding 650b? very interesting season. I never paid much attention to downhill racing until this year. Very competitive.

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    It was a good year, great coverage too - esp when you also watch WynTV etc too.

    It's certainly interesting/controversial in that the main 29er competitor (Minnaar) lost out multiple times thanks to wheel/tyre failures. Of course it's entirely possible that it's just unlucky/coincidence, but make no mistake people would've noticed that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter58 View Post
    So the UCI downhill champ was riding 650b?
    doesn't prove anything, he could equally have won on a 29er. On the other hand if Gwin rides on a 29er next season with mixed results it doesn't mean anything either as the drawbacks of the bigger wheels are immediately felt while it takes more time to adapt in order to really leverage it's advantages

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    doesn't prove anything, he could equally have won on a 29er. On the other hand if Gwin rides on a 29er next season with mixed results it doesn't mean anything either as the drawbacks of the bigger wheels are immediately felt while it takes more time to adapt in order to really leverage it's advantages
    Well the one thing that was proven is that either way, they weren't a game changer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    Well the one thing that was proven is that either way, they weren't a game changer!
    uh oh, your going to get in trouble like me

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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    Well the one thing that was proven is that either way, they weren't a game changer!
    1st I state here I ride 27.5 (and 26 a bit). The wheel/tire failures Minnaar had this season left me pissed since (for me) he has been The Man for years. I use to worry the Rat would start making Greg look bad. Seems funny now.
    2nd I want to remind everyone that Minnaar stated a couple of times the whole team was faster on the big wheels in pre-season testing. It seems that 29rs make some LINES faster.
    For me I love that roll-over advantage too, but out of the 4 or 5 29rs I've tried I didn't enjoy the feel they provide during turning/line change. Early buzz says we have some new bikes (Kona is one) who's long travel 9rs are way responsive.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    2nd I want to remind everyone that Minnaar stated a couple of times the whole team was faster on the big wheels in pre-season testing. It seems that 29rs make some LINES faster.
    I don't doubt for a moment that they're faster in some circumstances, however would a team rider ever state anything OTHER than the new bike is quicker?

    IIRC the 29er riders were also on the taller side (at least compared to me), and the shorter riders in particular who started on 29ers quite quickly moved back.

    I expect that they'll be testing the hell out of different bikes this off-season. The funny thing though is that these riders that are getting every little gain out of the bikes, winning races by only fractions of a second, and yet we have weekend warriors claiming that there is some kind of massive speed differential. And its these weekend warriors that don't even need that fraction of a second advantage - they ought to be riding for fun!

  36. #36
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    Well said.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    And its these weekend warriors that don't even need that fraction of a second advantage - they ought to be riding for fun!
    In reply to that statement (I agree with it too) I have to say it IS fun to notice the roll-over, and because of that trait how the 29 wheel builds speed faster than a 26 on rough descents. I'd get to the bottom and be surprised at how fast the corner was coming up. That diff is not so noticeable now that I've been on 27.5 wheels, but I assume it's still there. For riders who value top speed or quickest time on a trail, those wagon wheels are calling. I however, love to feel my snappy and responsive Process 134 with its 27.5". Just a few months ago I demoed Spec 130mm Camber and the Stumpjumper, both 29" Great bikes that are perfect for intended use, but I was way underwhelmed as I (tried) pushed a line that dropped while in large berms. Those bikes tend to stick, they don't switch directions as quick as I like. The log-overs sucked too as I want to fly a bit, while they wanted to stay on the ground. Faster yes, but I'm there for the kicks. Same as you guys I'll bet.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

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    I think the thing most people are missing here is that both tires sizes have their advantages and disadvantages. I seen numerous Videos showing that their is little difference in times from someone who was a professional racer. The 27.5 seem better for tech trials and switch backs and the 29ers better for straights. Of course this assumes that the same amount of effort was put in on both tires sizes. Which we can never really know.

    Are we debating the AR 15 vs AK47 in bike terms? If so then their will never be any conclusion cause both sides are biased as hell!

  39. #39
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    Its nothing more than people arguing over their personal preferences. In the end...if you like it...does it really matter who is pushing what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Its nothing more than people arguing over their personal preferences. In the end...if you like it...does it really matter who is pushing what?
    I guess it does to people whom are heavily invested in a wheel size. i.e. I'd be a bit pissed off if I had a fancy 26" frame + wheelset that didn't have all of the new cool tyre options and was now worth very little on the used market.

    As somebody with not a single bit of carbon on my bike, I don't have this problem personally.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    I'd be a bit pissed off if I had a fancy 26" frame + wheelset that didn't have all of the new cool tyre options and was now worth very little on the used market.
    Outside of MTBR...in the real world...it makes no difference what wheel size you run. Only strangers on the internet will nitpick you to death over the most meaningless things.

    I have never ever come across anyone on the trail or in a group that would snob someone else's bike because of the parts they chose to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Outside of MTBR...in the real world...it makes no difference what wheel size you run. Only strangers on the internet will nitpick you to death over the most meaningless things.

    I have never ever come across anyone on the trail or in a group that would snob someone else's bike because of the parts they chose to use.
    I don't see it here, the OP brought up racing and some of us love to talk/write about that. Lots of guys discussing merits and preferences, not much mud-slinging. This is the 27.5 forum so not much disagreement expected, just bench racing.
    Where I live the trails are crowded with natural rest spots/gathering points. I enjoy talking with strangers about riding and bikes. Doing that you gather lots of info.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

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