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  1. #1
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    650b OS Blackbuck, WTB rims, hubs and Wolverine 2.2 tires!

    Okay, So I had someone build me some wheels. They are prototype rims and tires, but that's all I'm going to say right now. I've never been on a 650B and I'm really looking forward to trying it out. I have been riding 29er for over 4 years now, and I currently have a Voodoo Canzo and a Custom HT. I'm especially interested in comparing my rigid 29er HT SS, with the one I'm building up.

    If all goes well on Saturday, I'll be riding it and maybe taking a few pictures. This is costing me more than I would have liked (for a new bike), so I'm hoping that the wheel format won't let me down. I don't want this to have been an expensive (failed) experiment.

    Anyway, wish me luck!
    Last edited by Wish I Were Riding; 12-08-2008 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Fixed title to be mo-betta for spreading 650b info

  2. #2
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    prototype rims and tires - but what frame are they going on? hardtail? FS? Rigid, front suspension?

    Oh and Good Luck!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    prototype rims and tires - but what frame are they going on? hardtail? FS? Rigid, front suspension?

    Oh and Good Luck!!!
    Rigid. I will be able to directly compare 650B rigid SS to 29er rigid SS. Thanks!

  4. #4
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    Frame will be???

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Frame will be???
    OS Blackbuck?

  6. #6
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    Awesome! You've got good connections! Can't wait to read the report. Be sure to snap pics too please. I'm assuming the Blackbuck you'll be riding is the 650b specific model that I saw in the Interbike photos.

    Makes me also speculate on the rim/tire combo as well.

  7. #7
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    If Its a Blackbuck he's probably testing the WTB 650B gear. Its just goes hand in hand. I know your speculations, there MMcG

  8. #8
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    Okay, so I wanted to sound a little cryptic. I want to pretend I matter in the grand scheme of things, but the truth is I really don't. Oh well.

    I ended up with the opportunity to buy the Of Spirit Blackbuck 650B frame and rigid fork when the original InterBike purchaser backed out (at least I think that's what happened). I decided I would go for it. I believe that the geometry is going to be great for me. I don't know about the wheel size format, but I guess I'm willing to give it a go.

    The gear is indeed WTB stuff shown at InterBike. I was told that these items (rims and tires*) are expected to be released in the Fall of 2009 if all goes well. Here is the info on the wheels I had built:

    LaserDisc Trail 650b Rims*
    DT Competition 14g db spokes w/ DT alloy nipples
    LaserDisc Lite Front Hub
    LaserDisc Single Duty Rear Hub
    Wolverine 2.2 650b Tires*

    I don't think there is enough info on the WTB hubs, so I thought this was also a good time to try them out and provide additional feedback to the SS forum.

    I will also be getting 2 of the Neo-Moto tires to try out.

    I had hopes of getting a lighter, more comfortable and fun bike, to directly compare to my 29er SS. I don't think its actually going to be much lighter though. Anyway, I'll take some scale readings and some pictures this weekend.

  9. #9
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    Not wanting to totally steal your thunder of a new build, I thought I'd put up a little teaser.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Not wanting to totally steal your thunder of a new build, I thought I'd put up a little teaser.

    Hey, that must be mine then!?! Post up all you want.

    And I'll see you tomorrow!

    Oh yeah, now (although we've not officially met) I know who ssmike really is too.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Hey, that must be mine then!?! Post up all you want.

    And I'll see you tomorrow!

    Oh yeah, now (although we've not officially met) I know who ssmike really is too.
    That's enough of a teaser for folks until tomorrow. It'll look much better as a complete bike instead of wheels in a frameset. Hasta manana!

  12. #12
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    Looks like another 650b xc race tire on the way. Good news!

  13. #13
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    I'm really looking forward to this build and the ride review of this bike!!

  14. #14
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    Well, ssmike helped us build it up this morning. Got everything put together, had pizza, and went for a ride. 19 rolling miles with only 2000~ish feet of climbing.

    This bike has shorter cranks, harder gear, and smaller wheels than my 29er.

    I need to do some local ride before I post a lot more. The geo felt really good. I guess I always look like a dufus on the bike.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
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    That thing is hott...

  16. #16
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    Nice looking bike! What's all that green stuff all around you, though? (it's 18 degrees and snowing outside as I type this)

    A closer shot of the tire's tread would be cool if you get a chance...

  17. #17
    Eating Hot Pockets
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    <-------- JEALOUS!

    when you decide you're too much of a 'dufus' for the bike, give me a shout!

  18. #18
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    the tire is a Wolverine 2.2" A tread WTB introduced in 2007 as a 26".

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF

    A closer shot of the tire's tread would be cool if you get a chance...
    This is WTB's page for their 26" tires.

    Wolverine 2.2 http://www.wtb.com/products/tires/xcracing/wolverine/

  20. #20
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    Thanks, looks like a decent tread. WTB makes good tires!

  21. #21
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    Went for another ride. The first thing I HAVE to change is the grips. The rigid fork is a great deal, and I think it looks good too, but I don't think it is the most compliant fork. The Ergon GX-1 grips are not very soft. They are comfortable, but when the going gets bumpy (and it does) they are not soft or forgiving and my hands are getting torn up. So I'll have to change that soon.

    Comment about the WTB Single Duty hub. This thing is QUIET!!! I've read all the threads in the SS forum about quiet hubs, this one should be mentioned! I was very suprised and happy. I actually didn't realize it until today's ride. I snuck up on a Bobcat. My 28er has a Hope Pro II Cassette hub, and it would have scared the Bobcat away for sure.

    Tires are heavy, because they have wire beads. I think the tread pattern is working good and I was cornering well today. However, the dirt conditions are almost perfect and I'm not the greatest rider.

  22. #22
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    Good looking bike right there.

    On Friday I received a 1x9 Beasley from Downhill Jill for a little bit of testing and a review over at www.ridemonkey.com - the Cherry Red paint is sweet.

    I was only able to squeeze in a half hour ride due to a busy schedule of hockey games for my kids, but again that Beasley's a fun bike! I think I need more ride time on it to get a true sense of how the haro rigid fork rides for a good long jaunt in the woods though.

    The bike handled excellent and the fit on the 18" frame is very good for me at 5'9" tall.

    More to follow as I get more time on it.

    I'd love to be able to compare the Black Buck with proprietary fork with the curved blades to the segemented Haro fork.

    Cheers,

    Mark

  23. #23
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    I tried to change the title. Can this NOT be done?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    I tried to change the title. Can this NOT be done?
    Try it in Go Advanced when doing your edits

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Try it in Go Advanced when doing your edits
    I tried that, but it just changed the title of that post, and not the title of the thread.

  26. #26
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    Well I now have 4 rides on this bike and these new wheels. I really like the frame, geo, fit etc. I am very pleased, but I wonder if I will like it more with a 29er wheel up front?

    Anyway, the wheels have been knocked a little out of true, so I'll need to give them a touch up. I'm glad the rims are the width they are, or I might have already had a pinch flat or two.

    So far the hubs are a nice suprise. The rear hub is very quiet. The hubs are just doing their jobs.

    I think the casings of these tires are pretty heavy and stiff, and that may have got me running pressure that is too low. On yesterday's ride I had something between 15 and 20psi in them, and I hit front rim twice. I guess I'll have to put some more air in them. The tread on the tires is nice, and I have had good dirt conditions so I'm not having any trouble with traction. The wire bead makes them heavier than I would normally like, but they are doing fine.

  27. #27
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    Did you hit something besides cattle fireroads on Bo Ridge

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    I tried to change the title. Can this NOT be done?
    PM me, I can change it.

    Nice ride.

  29. #29
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    Thanks for updating the thread title Rensho!

    I competed 6 rides on the bike so far as first built. I added climbing bars to my Luv Handles, and it has been great.

    Today I swapped out the WTB Wolverine tires for a set of Neo-Motos. I won't get to ride them until later this week though.

    Unfortunately swapping the tires didn't make my bike a whole lot lighter. The wire bead Wolverine's aren't light, but neither are the Kevlar Neo-Motos. At least not when you are used to 29er tires under 700gms. But the Neos look good, so I'm looking forward to trying them out.

    The only other thing that has me a bit sad is that my 29er still weighs 1 full pound less than my 650b. (25lbs to 26lbs - both rigid, with BB7's.) I wish it was lighter, but I have been really enjoying it.

    After a few rides on the Neo-s, I will try a 29er wheel in the front...

  30. #30
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    "testing" ???

    the troll killer is amazed at who ends up "testing" products for inter-web reviews...

    baffled,

    tk
    Keeping the 650B forum hater free ever since 2008!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by troll killer
    the troll killer is amazed at who ends up "testing" products for inter-web reviews...

    baffled,

    tk
    Nobody asked if I was qualified, so don't get you panties in a bunch tk.

  32. #32
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    it will be interesting to read what you think about the Neo compared to the WTB. How about some more frame shots?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelbike
    it will be interesting to read what you think about the Neo compared to the WTB. How about some more frame shots?
    The weather has started to get nasty, so the dirt has gone from tacky and almost perfect to wet and muddy. However I'm interested to see if I feel any differences too.

    I do owe some more frame shots. I think this frame is a totally great deal whether in the 650b or 29er format. I'll see what I can do...

  34. #34
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    Sounds a little bit troll-like of you to say that IMO.

    What do you know of/about the original poster for you to judge? Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by troll killer
    the troll killer is amazed at who ends up "testing" products for inter-web reviews...

    baffled,

    tk

  35. #35
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    Update

    I have had many rides on the bike now. I've a bunch using the WTB Wolverines and a bunch with the Neo-Motos. I continue to like the bike very much. I tried to not change much at first, so I could get a better idea of how I thought the 650B wheels worked for me. So far I have to say I like them very much. Do I like them better than 29er wheels? I don't know if I can answer that yet. I do know that the bike's geo is VERY good for me, so I won't be getting rid of it any time soon.

    Yesterday I put a 29er wheel on the front. Mark had told me this wouldn't be good, but I didn't notice any ill affect to the geo or handling. I don't know if it was noticeably better either. I will probably leave it this way for a while. I'm assuming that the 29er front will roll over things better, and I don't think it weighs more than the 650B wheel it replaced either. It's a Flow rim with the 2.3 Resolution. I do think I'll miss the Neo-Moto though, those are some great tires!

    I took some more boring pictures of the bike and frame, I'll try and post them soon. I know that at there has to be at least 1 person who might want to see them?

  36. #36
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    Post em up!!!

  37. #37
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    I have had many rides on the bike now. I've a bunch using the WTB Wolverines and a bunch with the Neo-Motos. I continue to like the bike very much. I tried to not change much at first, so I could get a better idea of how I thought the 650B wheels worked for me. So far I have to say I like them very much. Do I like them better than 29er wheels? I don't know if I can answer that yet. I do know that the bike's geo is VERY good for me, so I won't be getting rid of it any time soon.

    Yesterday I put a 29er wheel on the front. Mark had told me this wouldn't be good, but I didn't notice any ill affect to the geo or handling. I don't know if it was noticeably better either. I will probably leave it this way for a while. I'm assuming that the 29er front will roll over things better, and I don't think it weighs more than the 650B wheel it replaced either. It's a Flow rim with the 2.3 Resolution. I do think I'll miss the Neo-Moto though, those are some great tires!

    I took some more boring pictures of the bike and frame, I'll try and post them soon. I know that at there has to be at least 1 person who might want to see them?

    Yes, pics please!

    Cheers,

    KP
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  38. #38
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    bring it.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    Yes, pics please!

    Cheers,

    KP
    It must be cool to see all these bikes with your name on the tires.

  40. #40
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    Picts for the 3 people who care...



    I have just changed the bar, to a Titec ti Flat Tracker. No rides like that yet.

    Comments and questions are fine (criticism is okay if constructive).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  41. #41
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    A few more...

    Attached Images Attached Images

  42. #42
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    Looks like nice riding weather you've been having! Sweet bike!

  43. #43
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    It must be cool to see all these bikes with your name on the tires.
    WIWR,

    Yes, it's a pretty cool feeling, but the novelty wears off rather quickly. As a bicycle / component designer, it's far more rewarding to read stuff like this and this knowing your design ideas are working well in the real world. Working out concepts and seeing the positive results of that hard work is what keeps me going. The fact that people who use the product see real performance gains motivates me daily.

    Cheers,

    KP
    If you like my products and services tell everyone. If you don't, tell me - kirk(at)pacenticycledesign.com

  44. #44
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    4th person who likes pics

    That's just a nice bike to see and it's good to view green when it's covered with snow out here.

    How do feel about the Luv Handles if the length was right for you and the bar ends?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelbike
    How do feel about the Luv Handles if the length was right for you and the bar ends?
    Are you asking how I would like the Luv is they were longer? I definitely do like the Luvs. If I got another set that were a little longer so that I could get my levers far enough away from my grips without having my hands feel confined by the bar ends that would be great.

    As it is I just swapped them out form something else, but no rides yet.

  46. #46
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    I tried to check out the OS website, but it appears to be out of service. Any idea if these frames are still available (650b size????)

  47. #47
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckdog
    I tried to check out the OS website, but it appears to be out of service. Any idea if these frames are still available (650b size????)
    I have an e-mail in to Mark Slate, but I haven't gotten a reply as of tonight. Hopefully it is just down for an update.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckdog
    I tried to check out the OS website, but it appears to be out of service. Any idea if these frames are still available (650b size????)
    Looks like it was last up on at least Dec 29th. You can shoot him and email at mark@osbikes.com. I don't know if he got the rest of the 650B frames in yet, and there were only about 4 more made.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckdog
    I tried to check out the OS website, but it appears to be out of service. Any idea if these frames are still available (650b size????)
    I recieved a reply to my e-mail. Mark Slate said that he knows about the site being down and has a call in to his web monkey but hasn't heard anything back yet. Once it gets back online all should be as it was.

    I didn't ask about the B wheeled Blackbucks, your request came in after I sent my e-mail.
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  50. #50
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    Update time...

    Thought I would post an update. I've been exclusively riding my OS Black Buck 650B frame since I got it. I really like the geo, it just flat out feels right to me.

    At first I rode it a bunch of times on my local rides that have a lot of fireroads. It felt good.

    Then I rode it a bunch with a 29er wheel in front, because I wanted to see how it would handle. It didn't feel that much different on the same local rides.

    About 2 or 3 weeks ago I went to Tamarancho in Fairfax CA. I had never been there before. (That was dumb, this place is incredibly fun.) There is lots of single track, rocks, roots etc. I had my 29er wheel on the front and the 650B in the back. The bike was lots of fun there. I thought it worked well even though it is rigid.

    Several days ago I put the 650B wheel back on the front because I wanted to see if I would notice going to the smaller wheel (since I didn't notice going up in size). And again I felt after several rides that the bike rode fine and there wasn't much noticeable difference.

    However, today I got my second ride at Tamarancho, and this time I had the 650B wheel on the front. I will say that this is only my opinion (obviously), but the 29er wheel made a much bigger and better difference on this terrain. I won;t say the the 650B front hindered me in any way. I was still fast and having plenty of fun. However, for riding of this rougher terrain with a rigid fork, I will deffinatly be putting the 29er wheel back up front!

    I do believe that 650B wheel and some suspension fork might have made a big difference as well. I have a Fox Vanilla fork on a nice 26" FS bike that I will never ride again. I'm thinking about trying that out on this frame. I don't know if the difference in rake between my rigid (51mm) and the Fox (38mm?) will make it suck or not. But I figure I should at least try it.

    Summary, the 650B front and rear is great for me for most of my local riding. It feels good, and rides good too. But for the rougher stuff I will probably use the 29er wheel.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    I do believe that 650B wheel and some suspension fork might have made a big difference as well. I have a Fox Vanilla fork on a nice 26" FS bike that I will never ride again. I'm thinking about trying that out on this frame. I don't know if the difference in rake between my rigid (51mm) and the Fox (38mm?) will make it suck or not. But I figure I should at least try it.
    Yes, you should definitely try it. But keep in mind you will be raising the front end (I am not sure what the a2c on the Fox is but I gotta believe it's longer than that 435mm rigid) and going down in rake, both of which will slow the handling of the bike. That won't necessarily be a bad thing, cuz remember Mark himself rides his Blackbuck 29er with the short rigid fork that equates to 74/74 angles and when you put an 80mm shock on it the geo becomes 71/71 so he clearly designs his frames with "flexibility" in mind.

    Whatchu doin' in my 'hood without calling me by the way?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamjam
    Yes, you should definitely try it. But keep in mind you will be raising the front end (I am not sure what the a2c on the Fox is but I gotta believe it's longer than that 435mm rigid) and going down in rake, both of which will slow the handling of the bike. That won't necessarily be a bad thing, cuz remember Mark himself rides his Blackbuck 29er with the short rigid fork that equates to 74/74 angles and when you put an 80mm shock on it the geo becomes 71/71 so he clearly designs his frames with "flexibility" in mind.

    Whatchu doin' in my 'hood without calling me by the way?
    I rode with John and our friend Fred, and 2 couple other guys. I gauranty you wouldn't have been able to go slow enough to ride with us.

    Build yours up yet? You can't be in too much of a hurry with your current ride.

  53. #53
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    One left?

    I just got an OS BlackBuck 650b frame. It looks pretty good and I'll post up some pictures soon. Thanks to WIWR, Arleigh, SSmike, GT and others who posted info about it. After riding the converted 26 for over a year this will be a treat.

  54. #54
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    Hey WIWR - Any idea if this last one is going to be THE LAST ONE - or does Mark plan on another batch of these going forward???

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelbike
    I just got an OS BlackBuck 650b frame. It looks pretty good and I'll post up some pictures soon. Thanks to WIWR, Arleigh, SSmike, GT and others who posted info about it. After riding the converted 26 for over a year this will be a treat.
    I think you are going to love it!

    Please post pictures and a ride report.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Hey WIWR - Any idea if this last one is going to be THE LAST ONE - or does Mark plan on another batch of these going forward???
    It's probably THE LAST ONE.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Hey WIWR - Any idea if this last one is going to be THE LAST ONE - or does Mark plan on another batch of these going forward???
    It's probably THE LAST ONE.

  58. #58
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    Hey! Bolinas Ridge Trailhead. Olema's just down the hill to lookers right. Am I right?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tungsten
    Hey! Bolinas Ridge Trailhead. Olema's just down the hill to lookers right. Am I right?
    I think so. That was my first ride after building up the bike at Black Mountain Cycles.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    I think so. That was my first ride after building up the bike at Black Mountain Cycles.
    Affirmative on the Olema location.

  61. #61
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    WIWR - how was the mounting for the WTB Wolvs tot he Laserdisk rims?

    We discussed that in another thread recently and I am just stumbling upon your thread now.

    We'll be doing another build in the next few weeks and we'll photo document the build and video the tire mount to post for Shiggy.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumonky
    WIWR - how was the mounting for the WTB Wolvs tot he Laserdisk rims?

    We discussed that in another thread recently and I am just stumbling upon your thread now.

    We'll be doing another build in the next few weeks and we'll photo document the build and video the tire mount to post for Shiggy.
    To be honest I didn't mount them. I believe that Mike from Black Mountain Cycles said they went on snug, but I don't think they were hard to get on or overly tight. But I can't really say...

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