Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 339
  1. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    505
    derby, gvs_nz:

    Thanks for the thoughts, that's very useful. Glad to hear I've got a decent handle on it, conceptually anyhow.

    Given this, I'm going to set the HD up 26 to start. From what i'm hearing here, it sounds like I definitely want the option of 26 regardless since this bike is primarily for rougher more aggressive riding.

    Derby, I hear you about the whole > sum of the parts. If I can, I'll try to borrow a 650b wheel or two at some point and see how it feels to me. It seems like this needs to be experienced to be appreciated. I remain very interested in the size, and I expect that I will be inspired to mix it up a bit when I have the coin.

  2. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    3,489
    Just a footnote. I do notice a lift in speed using 650B on the rear of my hard tail even if I don't on FS bikes.

  3. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Just a footnote. I do notice a lift in speed using 650B on the rear of my hard tail even if I don't on FS bikes.
    I noticed a small improvement in climbing traction as well, going from a 26x2.3 to a 650x2.1 in a familiar tread.... I was mildly bummed about being limited to the skinnier tire on my Mojo SL, but after riding it I think it really is the better choice for 90% of my riding anyway.... faster rolling as well. On a related note, I was surprised at how much stiffer a Hadley/Flow/650b rear wheel was vs a Saint/Duster/26".... rims are the same width and both welded, but the Flow is quite a bit burlier obviously.

  4. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3
    Were you running your front shock at 140 or 150?

  5. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davidcopperfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,771
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    Derby, I hear you about the whole > sum of the parts. If I can, I'll try to borrow a 650b wheel or two at some point and see how it feels to me. It seems like this needs to be experienced to be appreciated. I remain very interested in the size, and I expect that I will be inspired to mix it up a bit when I have the coin.
    There will be a Santa Cruz Tallboy LT 140mm in february I think. Perhaps check this one. Cedric Gacia really like the original tallboy in Rampage race. So why not you with 140mm?

  6. #56
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    There will be a Santa Cruz Tallboy LT 140mm in february I think. So why not you with 140mm?
    Good idea. Throw some 650b wheels on it and an angleset to make it a low, slack and nimble trail ripper.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  7. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by srbeck View Post
    Were you running your front shock at 140 or 150?
    Not sure if that's directed at me, but if so, I'm running a Pushed '09 Revelation at 140mm.

    I also have a 2010 150 Rev that was, in terms of geometry and handling:
    great w/ 26" f&r
    slack and fun downwill w/ 650b f & 26 rear, but would just barely clear a racing ralph which is not a good tire for my trails
    and I haven't tried it with 650b f&r because I'm already at about as high a BB as I want, and I'd have to file out the arch to fit a decent front tire.

  8. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davidcopperfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,771
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover View Post
    Good idea. Throw some 650b wheels on it and an angleset to make it a low, slack and nimble trail ripper.
    Okay but there are no 4" or wider tyres and only those could match 29er ones in height. Just like 3" Gazzalodi with 2,3" Neo moto and think about the weight.... Check 26" Surly 4,75" they are as tall as 29er ones, but the weight...

  9. #59
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Okay but there are no 4" or wider tyres and only those could match 29er ones in height....
    Okay, but that was my point.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  10. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    359
    Anyone running a 650 in the front only? i.e. 650/26".
    Grammar and spelling errors are complementary.

  11. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by schwing_ding View Post
    Anyone running a 650 in the front only? i.e. 650/26".
    I think just about everybody who's tried it, at least on Mojos, started out that way because it's such a simple no-brainer upgrade....and it also pays the biggest dividends.

  12. #62
    www.derbyrims.com
    Reputation: derby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,787
    I did 650b/26 combo at first on my trusty old Mojo C. It raises the fork and front of frame 1/2 inch. At first felt unbalanced until I lowered the bars 1/2 inch and bumped my seat forward about 1/4 inch and up slightly to return to my familiar fit and balance over the pedals and wheels.

    With 650b/26 combo handling FEELS like it's 1 degree slacker in cornering, stability, and slow ride speed wheel flop.

    I tried my previous 26" high volume 2.4 inch front wheel once again to be sure 650b was worth it, and the 26" front wheel felt harsh in comparison to the 650bx2.3 front. The 650b could run a couple pounds lower tire pressure with the same width rim as my 26" rim.

    6 month's later added to 650b in the rear to raise the Mojo's very low BB up to 13.5 with a 140mm travel fork for the rocky trails I like the most, also to improve rolling ease further, and regain most of the quicker handing geometry.

    I never put 26" wheels back on the Mojo C.

    And later, last summer, swapped the 650b wheels and Lyrik u-turn fork from my Mojo C to a new HD frame.

  13. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    359
    Been on 29ers since '07, and have been looking for a big bike to compliment the 29er HT. Rough terrain here in AZ, so have been considering two yet-to-be-out bigger travel 29ers...Ripley and SB-95. After having my fork in the shop for a bit, I got tired of running the 29er fully rigid. Decided to demo a Mojo HD setup 160mm F & R. My pre-conceived notions (mostly derived from my memory of the last 4" and 5" 26ers I owned) were nearly smashed to bits with this bike. First time on a DW bike, and it more than offset traction yet remained very efficient for a 6+" bike. The surprise was how well the front end tracked. Great lateral traction, braking traction, off camber traction, and rollin with the slack angles was simply amazing. I don't remember my 26ers rolling in as well as a 29er, and remember them being hung up easier. The geo difference, combined with the 160mm fork erased that difference and then some.

    It make me think a few things. First - do I want a big travel 29er, or a bigger travel 26er like the Mojo HD? Second - if the MOJO HD was so good, a bigger travel (slacker than average 29er) could be off the charts. Third - what if you take the HD and add the 650b up front? Hence my earlier question here.

    The only negative I came away with was fatigue. After 3x rides of about 3 hours each, I was worked over/tired. It usually takes me 5 hours to get this way with my 29er HT. Am I wasting efficiency riding it a little bit like a HT instead of a fully? Likely some. Is there a big difference in weight - 5.5 lbs. is the answer so yeah. Was I having fun, thus pushing things harder? Perhaps.

    Really just rambling on a bit. My entire perspective just shifted, and it is taking me time to make sense of it all.
    Grammar and spelling errors are complementary.

  14. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Brisco Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    276
    What trails in AZ are you riding? I have a Turner Sultan with 140mm upfront and 68.5 HA. I also have a Ibis Mojo SL with 150mm upfront and 650b front wheel. They are both really great bikes for AZ. For trails like Javelina, Hawes, and K-trail I think the 29er is a better fit. For National, Geronimo, & Mormon I think the Mojo is a better fit.

  15. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    112
    I was in the same boat looking at a longer travel 29er to compliment my Pivot 429 which has 100mm in back and a 120mm Reba fork. I demoed an Ibis HD and "that's all she wrote". I put a 2.35 Navegal 650b up front and love the way it handles. This thing climbs way better than any 6" bike I've every ridden. I climb everything I ride so I'm able to access some killer DH trails. I also demoed the WFO, RIP 9, Sultan, and Tracer 29er, but the HD turns quicker and handles DH trails better. I would rate the 429 cross country to all mountain. The HD all mountain to free ride.

  16. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    3,489
    Quote Originally Posted by schwing_ding View Post
    Been on 29ers since '07, and have been looking for a big bike to compliment the 29er HT. Rough terrain here in AZ, so have been considering two yet-to-be-out bigger travel 29ers...Ripley and SB-95. After having my fork in the shop for a bit, I got tired of running the 29er fully rigid. Decided to demo a Mojo HD setup 160mm F & R. My pre-conceived notions (mostly derived from my memory of the last 4" and 5" 26ers I owned) were nearly smashed to bits with this bike. First time on a DW bike, and it more than offset traction yet remained very efficient for a 6+" bike. The surprise was how well the front end tracked. Great lateral traction, braking traction, off camber traction, and rollin with the slack angles was simply amazing. I don't remember my 26ers rolling in as well as a 29er, and remember them being hung up easier. The geo difference, combined with the 160mm fork erased that difference and then some.

    .
    I'm pretty sure many of the early converts to 29ers had never ever ridden a slack angled 26" bike. Most were hung up with preconceived ideas about ETT and xc bike fit combined with most slack angled bikes weighing gazillions for DH duties only.
    This years generation of 26" trail bikes now have very long wheelbase, low bb and slack angles.MOJO is now looking a bit retro in the wheelbase figures for 26" but ideal for 650B. I suspect future bikes designed for 650b will pull back some of the wheelbase and head angle to match the strengths of 650B stability over 26".

  17. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    359
    @gvs_nz: Definitely came from a XC background, and was doing shorter ultras at the time. 50 to 150 mile stuff. I would have never considered a big bike then, let alone a DH. Now that I want a play bike to compliment the distance bike, I am amazed at how far they have come.

    @Brisco Dog: Sedona - backside of Highline, some of the lesser known trails I won't mention. I can ride about 95% of things on the 29" HT, but it can be both on the edge and sketch at times. Riding the same stuff on the HD was so much easier. I rode a non-DW Sultan a while back in Fruita. Horsethief Bench, etc. I liked a lot about it, but did not like the long rear end. I had a RIP setup w/ a 120mm fork. It was a good all-rounder, but too steep for the really good stuff around here.

    @Dustyman: Thought about the 429 with the new F34 set at 140mm. DW in the rear, would lift the BB (I like them higher), would slacken out the front, built for big wheels, etc. I have a hard time ponying up for something like that, then voiding the warranty with a fork set at 140mm. WFO does not have enough platform for me, RIP was not slack enough and had recurring chain suck issues, Sultan is too long in the rear, and so is the Tracer.

    So far the only thing in question with the HD is that tired feeling at the end of the ride. I remember having fun on a 26er Ventana back in '08, then feeling wore out at the end of the ride too. Yeah, the smaller hoops spin up quicker, but the momentum of the bigger wheels seems to save energy for my style of riding in the long run.

    Wondering if any of you who have converted to 650b have noticed any difference in that department. The DW link suspension does not seem inefficient, and having a suspended rear should save some energy by standing less in our rough terrain. The guy who set it up seemed to have the shock and fork setting dialed.
    Grammar and spelling errors are complementary.

  18. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    112
    Derby could answer that question about 650b. I know the HD 140 will fit both front and rear with plenty of clearence. I wanted a bike with at least 160mm of travel, so I was concerned with clearence issues in the rear. I do use all my travel on every ride so I'm confident with my decision. The 650b up front makes it an easier transition from the HD to the 29er. If your rides are 3 hrs plus I would go with the 29er, plus it sounds like you prefer cross country. In my humble opinion 29ers are much better for endurance riding. I rode my 429 last year in Sedona and it was perfect. Maybe try and wait until Pivot releases their carbon 29er. I'm all over that.

  19. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,167

    Shock length

    Curious about this

    HD 140 7.875 x 2.0 = 140mm travel
    HD 160 8.5 x 2.5 = 160mm travel

    HD 150 7.875 x 2.25 = 150mm travel???

    Not one of the standard shocks from IBIS but what do you guys think?

    For me this bike sounds da bomb in 650B. Price might keep me off of one though. How's the climbing in 140 mode with 650B? For me climbing technical crap is huge requirement more so than downhill ability which the HD has in spades no matter what setting.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  20. #70
    www.derbyrims.com
    Reputation: derby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Curious about this

    HD 140 7.875 x 2.0 = 140mm travel
    HD 160 8.5 x 2.5 = 160mm travel

    HD 150 7.875 x 2.25 = 150mm travel???

    Not one of the standard shocks from IBIS but what do you guys think?

    For me this bike sounds da bomb in 650B. Price might keep me off of one though. How's the climbing in 140 mode with 650B? For me climbing technical crap is huge requirement more so than downhill ability which the HD has in spades no matter what setting.
    My 2011 HD gen-2 has a 4 mm "dent" or concave designed in the back of the seat tube allowing increase wheel clearance. I'm using a 2.25x7.875 shock when set up as an HD140, and my 2.3x650b Neo-moto barely clears the seat tube with no shock shimming.

    I've communicated the clearance with a 2.25 shock with Ibis. They had never tested it, even with 26" wheels. They also have never tested 650b (yet!)

    Due to the rising rate leverage of the HD, I'm guessing the added 12.5% shock shaft travel makes about 152mm vertical wheel travel, maybe 154mm (not 157.5mm which is 12.5% greater than 140mm travel). With the 2.25 shock in the HD140, the bottom travel limit is nearly the same as the HD160 with bigger shock and different shock mounts, the difference is mostly in top travel, the HD140 measures 1/4 inch lower at the BB than the HD160 using the same fork, before sag.

    The HD climbs great in 140 or 160mm travel, few bikes of any travel compare for ease and control climbing, especially climbing rocks. Only the weight of a heavy duty component build is a factor for ease of climbing.

  21. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,167
    Derby...great info, much appreciated!!!

    Probably not worth the effort for me as it would require a non standard 2nd shock either from Fox or a custom Push Monarch.

    Really, really hard to believe those Ibis guys haven't messed around with that shock length or especially the 650B wheels when they must know guys are doing this conversion. Maybe with Fox coming out with the new 650B fork this might change but for me knowing it already converts easily is all I need to know. For the riding I do here in New England 140mm is about perfect IMO and with the 650 wheels the BB height is perfect. What you mentioned about it's rock climbing has me salivating as we have just a few rocks here. There is a local shop that has a demo Mojo (HD?) I should try. It's a medium and I should probably be on a large (6' tall) but I should still give it a whirl to see how it feels.

    One more thing...on the Ibis web site it lists the Mojo 140 HA at 68 degrees with a 150 fork. So with a 140 fork it's now closer to 68.5 degrees I would assume. Have you tried it this way and how does it feel/ride if so? Jeez this bike crazy versatile.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  22. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by schwing_ding View Post
    Yeah, the smaller hoops spin up quicker, but the momentum of the bigger wheels seems to save energy for my style of riding in the long run.

    Wondering if any of you who have converted to 650b have noticed any difference in that department. The DW link suspension does not seem inefficient, and having a suspended rear should save some energy by standing less in our rough terrain. The guy who set it up seemed to have the shock and fork setting dialed.
    Yes, definitely. The 650b wheels roll & maintain speed better, hang up less, and allow for a more relaxed hand at the helm. To me, it feels (FEELS, mind you) like you're getting 75% of the benefit of 29" wheels, with none of the downside....unless you need a lot of mud clearance.

  23. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Yeah, the word is definitely NOT out in a lot of circles. I just ordered a shimmed down Monarch RT-AM for my SL from Push, and when I mentioned the possibility of using it later at full 2.25" stroke for around 150mm on an HD140 they said couldn't be done. I didn't argue, although I'm pretty sure they just haven't looked at it closely... and they're much higher on the HD160 than the 140 anyway... They like the shock rate much better on the 160 apparently.

  24. #74
    www.derbyrims.com
    Reputation: derby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Derby...great info, much appreciated!!!

    Probably not worth the effort for me as it would require a non standard 2nd shock either from Fox or a custom Push Monarch.

    Really, really hard to believe those Ibis guys haven't messed around with that shock length or especially the 650B wheels when they must know guys are doing this conversion. Maybe with Fox coming out with the new 650B fork this might change but for me knowing it already converts easily is all I need to know. For the riding I do here in New England 140mm is about perfect IMO and with the 650 wheels the BB height is perfect. What you mentioned about it's rock climbing has me salivating as we have just a few rocks here. There is a local shop that has a demo Mojo (HD?) I should try. It's a medium and I should probably be on a large (6' tall) but I should still give it a whirl to see how it feels.

    One more thing...on the Ibis web site it lists the Mojo 140 HA at 68 degrees with a 150 fork. So with a 140 fork it's now closer to 68.5 degrees I would assume. Have you tried it this way and how does it feel/ride if so? Jeez this bike crazy versatile.
    Versatile is the word I describe the HD when riders along the trail ask how I like my bike. My original Mojo C was versatile too, but the HD's added travel options really make 2 unique feeling bikes. And 650b front-only or both ends increases the versatility of either bike.

    Regarding head angle and fork travel, I haven't got a tool to measure the frame angles accurately, I'll go with what Ibis claims because it feels just right for it's travel for rocky eroded trail. I have a Lyrik u-turn coil and can raise or lower the fork minutely from 115 to 160mm travel. In the HD140 short shock setting I usually run at 140mm for the tight twisty single track of my local trails, sometimes lowered to 130mm for climbing and if feeling like attacking the tight turns quicker with more front end cornering traction. And for longer downhill raise it to 150mm for more stability and flow at faster speeds, and more confidence braking hard and hopping off drops.

    At 140mm travel the Lyrik and most other 35 or 36mm forks have a beefier crown adding 10mm axle-to-crown height over a 32 fork at 140mm travel, so my Lyrik at 140mm travel makes the same frame geometry as a 32 fork with 150mm travel.

    Ibis is a small company and they are all very strong expert riders, from the president of the company to the person sweeping the floors at the end of the day, which might be the president sometimes. It seems that elite riders are slow to change what works well for them. The 29'er project was a real stretch for their personal interests, they have a 'cross bike which covers what 29'ers are good at. But the market demand was ripe for a light weight carbon 29'er DWL to make the investment. I've suggested removable dropouts to allow 650b more clearance, also for BB height tweaking, but they are fixated on designing light weight, and stiff removable dropouts would add a few grams also require expensive retooling for carbon fiber molds, for a minimal gain in sales currently. In reality it's probable that only a handful or two riders in the world are riding 650b Mojo's currently, the market for 650b Ibis is still very small. Now that Fox is planning a 650b fork, Ibis is talking about 650b internally. They have limited bank, they are self funded, and although profitable on paper, the owners still have not broke even since the initial partners funded the company in 2003 or so, but breakeven for the owners is becoming closer. They have a long term vision, and it is succeeding.

  25. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    56
    ok... I've finally made the conversion of my HD140 into 650b...
    In my case I am using my Fox 150mm and as you can see from the picture there is no problem with clearance...
    Now I wish the rain would stop so that I can take it and see how it performs,,,,,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-2012-01-22-11.23.51.jpg  

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-2012-01-22-11.39.03.jpg  


  26. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: red bank rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    134
    Looks like a twin of mine!
    What kind of Fox talas fork is that? r? rlc? r2?
    I'm assuming its a 120-150mm?

    What was the final weight of that?

  27. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    56
    you mean the better twin right?.....
    Its the RLC 150 Talas. I do not know the weigh of it yet... but it should be slightly less than 13 Kg if I compare it to its weight before the change...

    Itay

  28. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    50
    mojo with 650s!! amazing!

  29. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Are those 2.3 Neo's front and rear?

  30. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    56
    Its 2.1 and 2.3 rear and front respectively.
    Itay

  31. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Same thing I'm running currently on my SL.... solid combo

  32. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    123
    Took the dive today and ordered 650b wheels for my HD 160, but it's not too late to change the order if I decide to not do it. Basically my thinking is that the larger wheel size will increase climbing ability and overall smoothness of the trails. Is this way off? It seems to have been asked before without a definitive answer, but is there a noticeable difference in pedaling efficiency? I ride mostly in SLO where we have extremely steep hills, some chunk, some flow; does 650b sound like a good match - I frequently do a 21 mile loop with 2500 feet of climbing and am hoping to make the climb a bit more enjoyable. I also ride around Sac, granite bay, auburn, rockville - anybody ride a 650b mojo there? I will also have a pair of azonic outlaws for N* and Downieville, so I am not completely jumping out of the 26" game... Any and all input is greatly appreciated!

  33. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Yes, you'll like it....do it. Like a lot of people I transitioned first to 650b front and was happy with the rough trail roll-over, extra high speed stability, and cornering grip/confidence. Some folks had played down the influence of the rear wheel, and admittedly the front wheel does make a more noticeable difference. But I was really pleasantly surprised by the extra climbing grip (even with "less" tire) and the feeling of enhanced efficiency and fast easy rolling.... and of course, they hang up less to improve technical climbing. Your gearing will be a little higher, which might help you break through to new climbing speeds, or you may want to drop a size on your granny if you've got stupid steep barely rideable climbs to tackle. I changed from 36/26 chainrings to 36/24 just so I could keep making those 2 or 3 spots that took so many tries over the years to conquer.

  34. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    123
    Alright thanks, that makes me feel better. I currently am on 1x10 and love it with 34 up front and 12-36 in back, currently for all the climbs I have any desire to actually ride up, the lowest gearing is adequate, though I do have to keep up a pretty good cadence to maintain traction. Will it be significantly more resistant with the larger wheels?

  35. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325

    2.35 Nevegal 650b on Mojo HD

    I've seen lots of NeoMoto 2.1's and 2.3's on the back end of HD's, but never a 2.35 Nevegal. I prefer the Neo's in back for most situations myself, but wish I could match my front Nev. fatty with a rear for the technical root/rock rides when it's sloppy wet like it is now... won't fit on my SL though... Any of you 650BHD kids have a pic of swingarm clearance with a big Nev?

  36. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manchvegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,094
    I currently have my HD set up in 160 mode... contemplating building up a set of 650b's but am unsure of what rim to go with. I would probably be running the set up with a 160mm talas in front. maybe 140 rear, but couldn't I just get away with shimming the rear? Alot cheaper than buying a new shock...
    Full time rider part time racer...

    See my adventures here..

    https://www.instagram.com/projectnortheast/

  37. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    My Hadley / 2.0DB / Flow wheels have been SUPERB. I'm really interested in the much lighter and just as wide new Pacenti TL28's...WITH EYELETS even.... if you're not a big parts masher that might be the ticket.

  38. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    123
    I just ordered Stans flows with ZTR 3.30HD hubs, decently light, seems like they will be very solid. I too am running mine in 160 and have it shimmed already even though I don't have the big wheels yet. The shimming feels nice, Im running 10-15 psi softer and still no bob, back end feel much plusher. I made them out of the bottoms of plastic milk bottles, very easy 20-30 minute job tops.
    Last edited by banebane; 02-28-2012 at 01:37 PM.

  39. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manchvegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,094
    I put the medium fox spacer in, is that the same as shimming the RP-23? I have 26" flows with ibis hubs right now. What about the flow 350s? I'd kinda like to be a little lighter than the flows. Right now the 26" wheelset I have with flows and ibis hubs are around 1850g.
    Full time rider part time racer...

    See my adventures here..

    https://www.instagram.com/projectnortheast/

  40. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I put the medium fox spacer in, is that the same as shimming the RP-23? I have 26" flows with ibis hubs right now. What about the flow 350s? I'd kinda like to be a little lighter than the flows. Right now the 26" wheelset I have with flows and ibis hubs are around 1850g.
    No, the Fox spacers are designed to change air volume/spring rate WITHOUT limiting the total travel. They nest in the top of the shock body, but to limit travel you need shims that go on the shock shaft itself... Derby or one of the other guys who've tried 160 mode w/ 650b will have to comment on whether you need to limit travel or not... and of course it's always a good idea to confirm it yourself with your bike and wheels. If you do need to shim it's a super simple job...don't even have to pull the shock off the bike. You should be able to find some good threads by Derby on the subject.

  41. #91
    www.derbyrims.com
    Reputation: derby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    No, the Fox spacers are designed to change air volume/spring rate WITHOUT limiting the total travel. They nest in the top of the shock body, but to limit travel you need shims that go on the shock shaft itself... Derby or one of the other guys who've tried 160 mode w/ 650b will have to comment on whether you need to limit travel or not... and of course it's always a good idea to confirm it yourself with your bike and wheels. If you do need to shim it's a super simple job...don't even have to pull the shock off the bike. You should be able to find some good threads by Derby on the subject.
    Yes, the HD 160 does need shock bottom travel limit shims. The HD140 does not.

    My 2'nd generation 2011 HD has 4mm added bottom travel tire clearance compared to the original model HD's. And set up as an HD160, mine required 2mm total thickness in hand made shims to prevent hard bottom out tire rub with a 2.3 Neo-moto (650b).

    Here is a link to an earlier post here about easily making hand made thin plastic washers as shims, or using hardware store purchased plastic washers, that can be split to go around the shock shaft and limit travel. http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/650b-sho...ce-623853.html

    The Fox air shock volume reducing shims, and Rockshox has something similar too, or hand made doing the same, might be helpful to produce an earlier spring rate ramp up (whether or not limiting travel using shock shaft shims).

  42. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manchvegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,094
    Thanks for the reply derby. I believe I have the 2nd gen HD. I got mine last fall in september of 2011. I have the 142 rear. Sounds awesome. I can't wait to get some wheels built up an start running in 650b mode. Any rim/hub suggestions to match up with the HD's performance? Was thinkin of the new pacenti 28mm's with hope pro II's or possibly dt240's?
    Full time rider part time racer...

    See my adventures here..

    https://www.instagram.com/projectnortheast/

  43. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    hope pro II's or possibly dt240's?
    Sing along Derby,

    HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY

    Way cheaper and faster engaging than the DT's, while just as fast rolling and convertible.

    A little more $ than the Hope's but just as convertible, with quicker engagement and about 1 / 10,000 the rolling resistance in the rear.

    Plus they're nice people to deal with, made in USA, and have dealers like Eric at Balle Racing that know it, stock it, sell it at low prices, and are happy to help you even when you're being a PITA.

  44. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manchvegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,094
    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Sing along Derby,

    HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY HADLEY

    Way cheaper and faster engaging than the DT's, while just as fast rolling and convertible.

    A little more $ than the Hope's but just as convertible, with quicker engagement and about 1 / 10,000 the rolling resistance in the rear.

    Plus they're nice people to deal with, made in USA, and have dealers like Eric at Balle Racing that know it, stock it, sell it at low prices, and are happy to help you even when you're being a PITA.
    Looks like balle is all out of stock of the 12x142 rear, and the 20mmx110mm fronts. The hadley's are heavy bastarts too... 360g just for the rear hub. I'm kind of ignorant of what makes a good hub vs. a bad hub etc... why would you want to "convert" a hub anyway?
    Full time rider part time racer...

    See my adventures here..

    https://www.instagram.com/projectnortheast/

  45. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manchvegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,094
    looks like I could build up a pair of flow 650bs for around 650 in materials. Still would have to have them built up. I did some more reading on the hadleys, definitely sounds good. Also looks like I could build up a complete set of flow 650bs with hadley 12x142 rear hub and 20mm front hub and be around 1850g... not too shabby! Anyone have red barn cyclery build wheels for them?
    Full time rider part time racer...

    See my adventures here..

    https://www.instagram.com/projectnortheast/

  46. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Looks like balle is all out of stock of the 12x142 rear, and the 20mmx110mm fronts. The hadley's are heavy bastarts too... 360g just for the rear hub. I'm kind of ignorant of what makes a good hub vs. a bad hub etc... why would you want to "convert" a hub anyway?
    Be careful when comparing claimed weights online. I know for my Hadley rear hub, the claimed weight included the thru bolt, while other brands didn't. There's a good reason their rear hub is heavier than some.... the free hub body is machined from Titanium instead of aluminum, so it will never get chewed up by your cassette, leaving you unable to get your cassette off without violent force. Also, their front XC hub will take all axle standards up to 20mm, which makes it quite a bit lighter than other brands oversize, 20mm-capable, front hubs. When I compared my XC 20mm front / 135x10 thru bolt rear pair to a Chris King set capable of doing the same thing the Hadley set was actually LIGHTER.... by a whopping 3 gms...but still, the only reason they're slightly heavier than the lightest comparable stuff is for a good reason....indestructible freehub. And weight at the hub is not that big a deal compared to weight in the rim, or especially the tire. I can't count how many times (every time, basically) I've coasted away from my 40lb-heavier riding buddies on Hope and King hubs thanks to the lower friction Hadleys. Disclaimer: The Hadleys may require more maintenance in super wet conditions than Kings due to the nature of their seals, but that hasn't been an issue for me. And yes, they've become really popular so they sell out a lot....I had to wait for my rear hub. Universal Cycles also stocks them and with their "vip15" discount code they come close to Balle's price.

    You'd want to be able to convert your hubs to future-proof them so you can use them on other bikes or forks. The Hadley front XC hub will do 9mm qr, 9mm thru bolt, 15mm thru, 20mm thru, and the rears will do 10mm qr, 10mmx135 thru, 12x135 thru, 12x142 thru...and probably more.

    IMO, hub features in order of importance are:
    1. Durability and ease of maintenance: +1 hadley
    2. Rolling resistance....that's their whole reason for existence anyway: +1 hadley
    3. Convertability: +1 hadley
    4. Customer service: +1 hadley and balle
    5. Price: Hadley's low to mid-pack for premium hubs
    6. Weight: not the lightest but competitive
    7. Engagement: +1 hadley
    8. Wet weather seals: not the best but you can install different bearings if you live in a wet place...this will cost you a little rolling resistance, and is why Kings have more drag.

    Everybody will have a different order, but it's some combination of these factors.... for me, Hadley strikes the best balance. I'm not bagging on any of the other choices, King and DT make super awesome hubs and I'd love to have wheelsets with both if I were sponsored.....as far as Hope hubs go I'll say that I really love my Hope brakes Somebody will probably point out I9 too and they appear to have really nice attributes too but I don't have any experience with them.

  47. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Looks like you'd already been sold before I finished typing that friggin manifesto...haha.
    That weight should be really close, from memory I believe mine are 1810gm for the set and I used lighter XL14 spokes on the front and allow nips all around... I'm a relatively light rider. One other thing that's a small bummer... if you get the xc front hub setup for 20mm the axle end caps are loose, so it makes wheel installation a little goofy....one of those jobs that's easier with 3 hands, but with a little practice I can do it quick and easy the first try. Their downhill hub is a little heavier but doesn't have that downside and is now convertible to all common standards. I build my own so can't comment on Red Barn.

    BTW, my Flow's have been great, but if the Pacenti TL28's had been out I would have gone with them instead...same width, much lighter, welded, eyelets, and first reports on build quality, stiffness, and tubeless setup are all excellent. Plus Kirk's kind of our patron saint right? If you're a hoss you might be better staying with the Flows though....they're well proven.

  48. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manchvegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,094
    Haha, ya I'm kinda sold, I did some research, and my buddy is actually having a wheelset built up as we speak by red barn, an he said they were very reasonable price wise. I'm thinking Hadley rear and hope pro II front I don't feel like messing with a xc front hub as I will most likely be changing set ups often, as I run the HD with a 160 talas for every day, and swap to a 180mm coil for the bike park.

    I am about 160 with all my riding gear on, I have flows on my HD now and they are a solid wheel and have had REALLY good luck with my tubeless set up as well. I'm just worried about the pacenti tl28's as... even the description says "good for everything short of big jumps and drops" I regularly hit 4-5' drops. Are the new pacenti's strong enough for that kind of riding? Or am I silly to even think about them over the flows for my type of riding? My average ride 15 minutes from my house has about 10-15 good sized jumps/drops that I hit on a regular basis...
    Full time rider part time racer...

    See my adventures here..

    https://www.instagram.com/projectnortheast/

  49. #99
    www.derbyrims.com
    Reputation: derby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Haha, ya I'm kinda sold, I did some research, and my buddy is actually having a wheelset built up as we speak by red barn, an he said they were very reasonable price wise. I'm thinking Hadley rear and hope pro II front I don't feel like messing with a xc front hub as I will most likely be changing set ups often, as I run the HD with a 160 talas for every day, and swap to a 180mm coil for the bike park.

    I am about 160 with all my riding gear on, I have flows on my HD now and they are a solid wheel and have had REALLY good luck with my tubeless set up as well. I'm just worried about the pacenti tl28's as... even the description says "good for everything short of big jumps and drops" I regularly hit 4-5' drops. Are the new pacenti's strong enough for that kind of riding? Or am I silly to even think about them over the flows for my type of riding? My average ride 15 minutes from my house has about 10-15 good sized jumps/drops that I hit on a regular basis...
    Hadley's have been good hubs to me. I'm 200 lbs and ride mostly where there's much climbing, roots and rocks, so most metal components and frames under me wear out or fail in about 2 years. But my Hadley rear hub lasted much longer than common, finally needing rebuilding after 4 years. I only own one bike, so that was about 7 to 9 thousand miles, not sure (my miles are getting shorter with advancing age, I used to do 3 to 4.5k miles per year with much climbing).

    I just received a pair a new Hadley hubs to build up a new wheelset, to retire my old wheels to be back ups and loaners to friends interested in trying 650b.

    I'm probably going to use Kirk Pacenti's TL rims. I've been on Velocity rims Blunt and P35 (front), and they have held up well, especially the P35. They work well for tubeless convert with ghetto (split tube) rim strips. They are a bit soft and dent easily when pressures are too low for rocky conditions (and the dents straighten out easily too). I only do 3 ft to flat drops max so far.

    I want to build a 26 inch rear wheel for occasional DH park use. To slack the frame angles and lower the BB since climbing pedal clearance isn't an issue. Unless I find a good deal on a used high end hub, I think I'm going to try an Atomlab Pimplite. The Pimplite has 60 engagement points which is quicker than all but a few hubs. There are few reviews, but nothing bad. Personally I don't like Hope rear hubs becuse they are extremely slow engaging, flexy, relatively high friction, obnoxiously loud, and not durable for more than XC and light AM use from user reviews in the DH forum.

  50. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,325
    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Haha, ya I'm kinda sold, I did some research, and my buddy is actually having a wheelset built up as we speak by red barn, an he said they were very reasonable price wise. I'm thinking Hadley rear and hope pro II front I don't feel like messing with a xc front hub as I will most likely be changing set ups often, as I run the HD with a 160 talas for every day, and swap to a 180mm coil for the bike park.

    I am about 160 with all my riding gear on, I have flows on my HD now and they are a solid wheel and have had REALLY good luck with my tubeless set up as well. I'm just worried about the pacenti tl28's as... even the description says "good for everything short of big jumps and drops" I regularly hit 4-5' drops. Are the new pacenti's strong enough for that kind of riding? Or am I silly to even think about them over the flows for my type of riding? My average ride 15 minutes from my house has about 10-15 good sized jumps/drops that I hit on a regular basis...
    Only early reports on the TL28's thus far, but they're very positive. I would have pegged you for an ideal candidate for that rim, and you may still be, but the "180mm coil for the bike park" makes me wonder. Are you hard on your equipment? Break much stuff?

    In a perfect world I'd have a TL28 set with lighter faster tires for some of my rides, and my current FLOWS for the burlier stuff.... all on Hadley!

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-20-2010, 12:58 PM
  2. lite duty fr/ heavy duty all mountain ride?
    By ecfiffer05 in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 03-13-2006, 04:37 PM
  3. heavy duty handlebar.........
    By jbordwine in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-15-2006, 05:00 PM
  4. Heavy dude's and heavy duty riders, need your opinion
    By I_8_It_up in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 04-12-2004, 09:03 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •