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  1. #101
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    I'm mounting up some new Neo-Motos this week and will replace that clearance picture.

    Few trails in my area require great tire traction. So I try to get as much wear out of these expensive tires, and the Neo-Moto's do live long and perform very well until nearly this worn.

    Also pressing my weight to crush the bottom bumper isn't nearly as much force as landing a jump on an under sprung shock. I'll be looking for rub marks on the 3 layers of tape I put there for temporary protection. I do still expect it will rub when bottomed hard and will need a small bottom travel shock shim.
    Any comments on the Neomoto's volume as a rear tire on faster chunky trails?

    Would like to hear how firm/soft it is out back compared to a 26" 2.35 folding Nevegal *(or similar volume), these two tires are listed with the same volume index
    Last edited by J:; 03-09-2012 at 12:11 PM.

  2. #102
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    I would like to ask a couple of questions:

    Will the new 2.4 Pacenti Mega Moto tyre fit the HD? The radius is 356, compared with 352 for the 2.3?

    Also, how much slacker would the equivalent head angle become with this tyre? Thanks.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJDOG View Post
    Any comments on the Neomoto's volume as a rear tire on faster chunky trails?

    Would like to hear how firm/soft it is out back compared to a 26" 2.35 folding Nevegal *(or similar volume), these two tires are listed with the same volume index
    I'd say "faster chunky" describes my daily riding to a Tee, and I think the NeoMoto is good, but not perfect. First, tires are all about the right compromises, and I'd say it is just about perfect by many measures. But on the subject of volume and chunk... Its volume is just a little too low for me to be able to get away with pressures in the upper 20psi range. That's where the magic happens IMO...around 27-28 psi, but if I let my NeoMoto fall below about 31psi I start denting rims. I could run slightly lower psi in the nevegal. Also, the nevegal benefits from having a softer casing and rubber compound, giving a nice smooth, grippy, almost sponge-like feeling...but the Neo rolls way faster and wears far better. Also, in the rear I've only run the 2.1 Neo, which has the same volume as the 2.3 but a more sparse tread. I'm sure the beefier tread on the 2.3 helps.

  4. #104
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    One for you guys running 650 on your HD's. What's the benefit / difference in feel between running 650 front and back vs just front?

    Why I ask:
    I have a Med 160HD (Original Spec) and am looking to sell it to get a Large Mojo. Thinking SL-R (for the weight saving and for what I do 140mm is enough) or HD 140 (already have spare 160mm shock so can convert to longer travel if needed). So while I am debating that I'm wondering if I go 140mm what fork to run which (as it usually does) brings me to HA and all the other usual geo questions. So I'm thinking SL-R with 140mm Deville (AFAIK it has the same A2C height as 150mm Rev) and then fit a 650B front.

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  5. #105
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    Well, the HD 140 swingarm of any year clears 650b easier than the Mojo SL and SL-R. The SL and SL-R needs a small shock shim to avoid seat tube rub, which is easy to do.

    Front-only 650b raises the head tube as much as the wheel axle difference from a 26 inch wheel, about 1/2 inch, depending on tire height differences. So about 1/2 degree slacker frame angle which increases steering trail to be longer and slower steering.

    The bigger wheel radius also in itself increases steering trail, also slowing steering.

    Combining the increased steering trail from a bigger 650b wheel and the 1/2 degree slacker frame and fork angles, the FEEL is like the added steering trail of 1 to 1.5 degree slacker head angle without changing wheels.

    Front-only conversion of a Mojo SL-R to 650b will increase steering trail from 69 degrees to the FEEL of a 26inch front wheel with about 67.5 to 68 degree head angle. And according to ibis web site's latest frame geometry publication, the HD140 frame with the same fork is .5 degree slacker head angle than the SL-R.

    And the front-only conversion adds the 650b wheel advantages of easier rolling over rough rocky rooty trail, ability to run lower air pressures, a smoother ride, especially downhill, and increased cornering and braking traction. There is a very small increase, about 3% more material, in rim and tire weight (all things equal).

    I am not first hand familiar with current 140 and 150mm travel fork's ability to clear 650b. I hear the Fox forks still clear with possible crown rub using some larger volume 650b tires. I hear the newer RS Revelation fork arches do not clear. Marzocchi forks up to 160 do not clear their very low arch. Do your research.

  6. #106
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    Thanks Derby for the detailed reply. Will give it some more thought.
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  7. #107
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    how are those P35's standing up to abuse (if any)?

    thx ... ragetty

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragetty View Post
    how are those P35's standing up to abuse (if any)?

    thx ... ragetty
    My P35 up front is holding up very well... as long as I don't let the tubeless converted Neo-motos pressures run too low. I did slightly dent one rim edge once somewhere, not sure where, probably during my vacation to Utah and Arizona last fall or Northstar bike park. The Blunt on the rear dents easily with too low pressure too. These Velocity rims apparently use softer metal compared to Mavic or WTB rims I've used way way back in the old 26 inch wheel days.

    The P35 stays true longer than the Blunt in the rear, mostly due to the lighter load and less dished spokes in front. The wider P35 certainly is stiffer but is about 100g heavier than a Blunt I think. These are not ultra-light weight rims, but not bad for their widths either.

    I'm waiting for the Pacenti DL31 to order with a TL28 for a new wheel set. A new set of Hadley hubs is impatiently waiting...

    I wish the DL's were 35 or wider. The P35 squares up my front tire very nicely giving better edge bite in corners, better balancing handling using the same tires front and with narrower rear rim rounding the rear tire, allowing more rear steer without dragging the rear brake.

  9. #109
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    I call this one the Firefly. Still working out the kinks. Hating on the FD, so I took it off and I will try climbing it as a 1x10 tomorrow morning.

    Magura Wotan fork is interesting. I have a spare Dorado CF fork ready, just in case a wider tire comes along

    gerG

    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG View Post
    I call this one the Firefly. Still working out the kinks. Hating on the FD, so I took it off and I will try climbing it as a 1x10 tomorrow morning.

    Magura Wotan fork is interesting. I have a spare Dorado CF fork ready, just in case a wider tire comes along

    gerG

    Wow, that looks like a fun rig!
    What's up with the janky FD cable routing?
    Tell us more about the Wotan....

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Wow, that looks like a fun rig!
    What's up with the janky FD cable routing?
    Tell us more about the Wotan....
    It is a fun ride, very different from my AM 29ers. Turns better, doesn't climb or descend as well. Of course, I am still getting used to the different feel of the bike.

    The cable routing was the most logical path that I could find. The top of the tube made no sense to me due to sharp bends required and poor placement at the head tube. No matter, the FD is now gone (although there is still a seat hose on the other side). I did some more technical climbing this morning with a single front ring. It gave me a hell of a workout! The climbing performance is disappointing. If I hit a square rock on the climb, the bike stops hard. In one instance the tail went up in the air (which I wouldn't have thought possible on a climb this steep) and in the other the fork just sort of loaded up then shot the bike backward underneath me. That one was actually pretty funny. Somehow my 29ers don't even notice those same rocks. Part flywheel effect, part rider style. I will be trying it again soon.

    The fork is smooth, and works ok, but it is not impressing me. It does do a lovely drop to a useable 4" travel, but that is just a nice-to-have. The part that I am not thrilled with is the behavior in the climbs, and the apparent fore/aft flex. Probably related issues.

    I should admit that all that I have ridden for the past couple of years are overbuilt 29ers. Both of them have Dorado forks, so I probably have a different idea of how a fork should behave. I am also used to a bike with more weight in the front end.

    Speaking of weight, the Mojo HD weighs in at 32# with the spare tube under the seat, but without the FD, small ring, control, related bits. This is much lighter than my 29ers.

    One thing I really really hate: no Hammerschmidt. Anybody know of an adapter that will let me install one?

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  12. #112
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    What mega motos? Did I miss something?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    What mega motos? Did I miss something?
    Photo shows Neo Motos.

  14. #114
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    I don't have any Mega-motos. I am looking forward to trying one. I am guessing that it won't fit on the back, but the front will be no problem (with a fork swap).

    So far I really like the Neos. I seem to be hell on sidewalls, so I am trying to be careful with them. When the Mega comes along I will be pondering something bomber for the rear. Maybe a fat 2-ply 26" on the back would be a good match.

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  15. #115
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    As soon as I HT sells I am looking to build a mojo hd 650b. I already have most of the build kit from a 26er. A couple of quick questions (have seen answers on some but not all and not definitive so thanks for the help)
    I understand that the 140 requires no mods but are most people going 140 just for that or are there other reasons over the 160.
    I am looking to get an XL into the 28lbs range with a dropper post. I was planning on light carbon wheels from china but I am not sure if there are light but grippy tires that will help me get to this weight. Is a 28lb xl mojo hd trail bike doable?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by tws_andrew View Post
    As soon as I HT sells I am looking to build a mojo hd 650b. I already have most of the build kit from a 26er. A couple of quick questions (have seen answers on some but not all and not definitive so thanks for the help)
    I understand that the 140 requires no mods but are most people going 140 just for that or are there other reasons over the 160.
    I am looking to get an XL into the 28lbs range with a dropper post. I was planning on light carbon wheels from china but I am not sure if there are light but grippy tires that will help me get to this weight. Is a 28lb xl mojo hd trail bike doable?
    Maybe it is possible to get the HD to 28 lbs with very light components. Having tried the Pacenti Quasi-moto 2.0 tires, which are xc race tires with short easy rolling knobs, I found them remarkably grippy while pretty new, but lost much grip when the tire got about 200 to 300 miles on it and the short knobs were well rounded.

    Regarding using 650b with the HD160, my second generation HD… having the added seat tube tire clearance and fixed front der mounting… at 160 settings will rub the seat tube at bottom travel using 650b, and I must add 2 to 4mm (depending on shock) in shock shaft travel limiting shims to prevent damage, limiting travel to about 155mm. Although the 650b wheels feel like there's an inch more travel over sharp rocks compared to 26 inch. Also the HD140 BB height is 1/4 inch lower than the HD160 with the same fork and tires. I have successfully used a 2.25 x 7.875 shock with HD140 shock mounts without seat tube rub (barely clears), and without needing shock shims, making about 150mm travel.

    I also want to try the carbon 650b wheels from China, for the rear wheel to gain durability, stiffness, and lighter weight. But I like a wider front than any carbon rim is made yet, and for now will stick with the Velocity P35 rim Kirk Pacenti designed for the front rim, to square the Neo-moto 2.3 for better turning balance with the rounder rear profile of the same tire allowing more side drift than the front without skidding with the rear brake.

  17. #117
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    Question for the Mojo hd 140 650b owners....
    Are your frames getting scratched up badly from the tires catching rocks etc?
    It sounds like the clearance is decent, i just dont want to do this if it will scratch up the frame badly.

  18. #118
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    NO..but then again the tires I use don't catch many rocks. And I ride some trails that make rock quarries look like hard pack sand pits.
    I use Pacenti Neo-Moto 650b 2.3 Front and Rear.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    Question for the Mojo hd 140 650b owners....
    Are your frames getting scratched up badly from the tires catching rocks etc?
    It sounds like the clearance is decent, i just dont want to do this if it will scratch up the frame badly.
    It will depend on the terrain. After 3 rides in AZ the inside front of the rear triangle was a bit gouged. Much worse now. I have a Neo 2.3 back there.

    gerG

    Last edited by g3rG; 07-01-2012 at 12:48 PM.
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG View Post
    It will depend on the terrain. After 3 rides in AZ the inside front of the rear triangle was a bit gouged. Much worse now. I have a Neo 2.3 back there.

    gerG
    After a year now, the scratched paint in of the yoke of my HD is not nearly as much as pictured using Neo-moto 2.3's. But I have only 2 days riding the volcanic sharp edged rock Phoenix area during a couple weeks in Utah and Arizona last fall. Mostly NorCal eroded sedimentary clay and mud with lots of gravely, rocky, rooty sections.

    There is room for a layer of protective plastic film, "helicopter tape" or such in the HD yoke. It is cosmetic and visible only when removing the wheel, and does not wear into the carbon fiber layers.

    Every trail bike I've owned before with 26 inch wheels eventually scratched up this area.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    After a year now, the scratched paint in of the yoke of my HD is not nearly as much as pictured using Neo-moto 2.3's. But I have only 2 days riding the volcanic sharp edged rock Phoenix area during a couple weeks in Utah and Arizona last fall. Mostly NorCal eroded sedimentary clay and mud with lots of gravely, rocky, rooty sections.

    There is room for a layer of protective plastic film, "helicopter tape" or such in the HD yoke. It is cosmetic and visible only when removing the wheel, and does not wear into the carbon fiber layers.

    Every trail bike I've owned before with 26 inch wheels eventually scratched up this area.
    so what your saying is...its not really an issue...
    thanks for the responses guys.

  22. #122
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  23. #123
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    Mojo HD 140 Color Question?

    A couple questions for all of you 650 Ibis riders...

    How well is the paint holding up after # years?

    .....I love the bike in white, but I'm tempted to go nude for longevity of finish.

    Thanks in advanced for your thoughts.
    The Truth will set you free.

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  24. #124
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    I should have never found out about the Mojo HD 650b... Just bought me a used and a bit scarred yet structurally sound frame to test the DW-Link waters. Screw the finish, it is the ride that matters, right?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-mojo_small.jpg  


  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I should have never found out about the Mojo HD 650b... Just bought me a used and a bit scarred yet structurally sound frame to test the DW-Link waters. Screw the finish, it is the ride that matters, right?

    Oh you dog I go away on vacation and you end up with an HD....and the paint isn't even dry on the Nickle

    What's the plan ahead for the build?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Oh you dog I go away on vacation and you end up with an HD....and the paint isn't even dry on the Nickle

    What's the plan ahead for the build?
    I have simply gone mad - I saw a nice deal on a used HD with plenty of accessories that I could not let go, I want to get intimate with DW-link. The official justification is that I want to get my better half on the Nickel for some easy XC trails that we could ride together. I hope she is going to tolerate stuff that she hates on her HT. A few weeks she got almost killed by a roadie scum on a public bike trail so I need to get her off paved paths. Good thing is, we ride the same size frames so I can still have some fun on the Nickel. I am going to use many parts from the Nickel on the Mojo and rebuild the Nickel with some spare parts I have around. Initially, the HD will be set up for 140mm (Monarch Plus) and 650b, but I am also getting an Avalanche tuned DHX 5 coiler@160mm for some more aggressive AM suicidal fun. I want to try it with 1x9 and 2x9 drivetrain.

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    Yeah, you're mad but this stuff is a drug and it's fun looking for the next fix.

    We'll have to get together with the girls once you have the bike built up. My GF is in the early learning stages and likes the easy more smooth trails. She just did her second "Ride Like A Girl" clinic and kinda had a bad fall bruising her ribs and most of her left side. Nothing broken thank god.

    Acadia/Bar Harbor was just amazing. Stunning views, great hiking and the Carrage roads and bridges are and engineering marvel and great fun on the mtn. bikes. Highly recommended.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  28. #128
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    I finally sold my old hard tail which means its time to order a set of 650b wheels and tires for my HD! I have been planning on going with a set of Flows but I'm curious to hear if there is anything else I should be looking at. I'm trying to stay in the $600'ish range for the set, at least until I decide if I like the 650b thing.

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    IMHO some of the best 650b rims for HD would be Flow EX, Pacenti TL28 and DL 31.

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    Thanks. I have been looking into the TL28s as well. I just told my LBS to look into them but it doesn't look like they are sold as complete wheels. My LBS doesn't have anyone who builds wheels, or at least that I would want building my wheels.

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    For me, one of the "unexpected benefits" of switching to 650b is having been nudged to learn wheel building. It is a lot of fun actually and it gives you a great deal of independence on your LBS. The risk is low, the benefits are great.

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    I have been thinking about trying to build a set of wheels. Maybe it's the right time...

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    I finally sold my old hard tail which means its time to order a set of 650b wheels and tires for my HD! I have been planning on going with a set of Flows but I'm curious to hear if there is anything else I should be looking at. I'm trying to stay in the $600'ish range for the set, at least until I decide if I like the 650b thing.
    My Flows have been excellent....even better at the discount prices they're selling for now. I guess the EX's are more stout, but I don't feel like I'm lacking any rim strength or stiffness at all for a 170 pounder trail riding aggressively in rocky conditions... I'd get the regular Flows at half the current price of the EX's and put the savings into hubs or tires.... or the Pacenti's if you want something lighter in the 28, or wider in the 31. YMMV

  34. #134
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    Yes, wheel building is fun and empowering... until you have to do it 40 hours a week that is... then it's kinda boring and can lead to tendonitis. No time to learn like the present!..... or if not, at least find a new LBS

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    Thanks, is the lower price direct from Stan's? I will have to see if they still have any. I have the flows in 26" currently and have been happy with them so far.

  36. #136
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    Ya, I can't find the "perfect" bike shop around me. There is one that I like for service but I don't like their inventory and there is one that carries stuff that want to buy but their service leaves a little to be desired. I'm trying to learn the service part but there are still things that I would rather have the shop do.

  37. #137
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    Bummer, looks like they're sold out in 650b....
    Flow Rims - on sale

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    Thanks. That's my kind of luck. I was planning on paying full price anyway.

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    They have been out of stock for a while now, that's why I mentioned the EXes. I managed to snatch the orig. Flow for $50.


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    I'm ordering a set of Flow EX's for now and then I think I'll try my hand at wheel building over the winter. Got a set of 2.3 Neo Motos on the way (hopefully) as well, can't wait!

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    They have been out of stock for a while now, that's why I mentioned the EXes. I managed to snatch the orig. Flow for $50.

    Wow, where did you get that cool 8-spoke version? I bet that saves a bunch of weight. A set of these would be perfect for my local bike paths.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Wow, where did you get that cool 8-spoke version? I bet that saves a bunch of weight. A set of these would be perfect for my local bike paths.
    It was my cunning weight savings plan but it did not work out exactly as planned. I had to keep adding the wires to prevent the red part from wobbling until I woven all 32 of them in there. I have to come up with something smarter the next time. Obviously I am too stoopid.

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    Witch fork accept 650B ? RS Revelation? Lyric? ...

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    Just so I have something to contribute to this thread other than assininery, here's this:
    Eurobike, 650HD, Kendall-Weed, and some guy who looks like Dan Deacon. And David Lynch drapes, lots of them.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-7896926490_e5b4712bab_z.jpg  

    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Just so I have something to contribute to this thread other than assininery, here's this:
    Eurobike, 650HD, Kendall-Weed, and some guy who looks like Dan Deacon. And David Lynch drapes, lots of them.
    Thank you. Do you have any additional details? What does "Full HD" mean, 160mm? Is that a new rev of the frame? Interesting to see Wolverines on that Mojo btw.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Thank you. Do you have any additional details? What does "Full HD" mean, 160mm? Is that a new rev of the frame? Interesting to see Wolverines on that Mojo btw.
    I'd imagine its just a play on words...you know how every TV channel says, "NOW in FULL HD!"

    So, I'm looking for a 160mm 650B for my next purchase. The Mojo is at the top of my wishlist but I could use a little education.

    I'm also wondering if the one pictured at Eurobike a 650B specific frame or just a regular HD w/650B tires/rims (just like you guys are already doing on your own)?

    Also, where are you guys buying them? The build I'd like to do would end up in the $5K + range. Unfortunately I'm also looking to replace my DH frame next year, AND I don't own the money trees you guys have apparently all planted. Great bike but damn expensive!

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Thank you. Do you have any additional details? What does "Full HD" mean, 160mm? Is that a new rev of the frame? Interesting to see Wolverines on that Mojo btw.
    If you look at the Limbo chip on the bike, it's pretty clear that the frame is set up as an HD140, not an HD160.

  49. #149
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    I need some help from you guys that have kept me up nights foaming at the mouth over these Mojo Hd converts.
    So here is what I am thinking and so what if my kid can't go to college. I just stole a barely used 13 fox talas 160 27.5 on ebay and want to pair it with a fresh Mojo Hd frame from my lbs. I am also thinking wtf why not go for the Enve AM 650b hoops with king hubs while I'm at it.

    Should I order the 140 or the 160 Mojo Hd? If I go 140 how will the 160 on the front need to be shimmed if at all?

    RP23 for the rear?

    Anybody have experience with anything coming from Enve?

    I'm in CT, I ride local rocky technical stuff and hit Blue MT in NY and possibly MT Creek once I have the right hardware.

    Thanks in advance

  50. #150
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    i have mojo HD 160 converted to 650b and never really cared for 140. just know that with 160 convrsion you need to shim shock travel a bit to avoid rear wheel rubbing seat tube. with 140 you are good without any shock mod. i currently have rp23 and after about a year i am ready to get something else.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by deofour View Post
    I need some help from you guys that have kept me up nights foaming at the mouth over these Mojo Hd converts.
    So here is what I am thinking and so what if my kid can't go to college. I just stole a barely used 13 fox talas 160 27.5 on ebay and want to pair it with a fresh Mojo Hd frame from my lbs. I am also thinking wtf why not go for the Enve AM 650b hoops with king hubs while I'm at it.

    Should I order the 140 or the 160 Mojo Hd? If I go 140 how will the 160 on the front need to be shimmed if at all?

    RP23 for the rear?

    Anybody have experience with anything coming from Enve?

    I'm in CT, I ride local rocky technical stuff and hit Blue MT in NY and possibly MT Creek once I have the right hardware.

    Thanks in advance
    Forks rarely if ever need to be shimmed to limit bottom travel if 650b clears the arch.

    The HD140 does clear 650b with no shock shims... just pug and play with 650b wheels. Ibis has publicly sanctioned the HD140 for 650b use.

    But the HD140 really doesn't like using a fixed travel fork at more than 150mm travel for good trail handling balance for most conditions with the speed of the 140mm travel, although with low handle bars a 160mm fork can work just fine with a 140mm travel frame, particularly for rocky rough downhill sections.

    The HD160 set up with 650b needs 1/8th inch to 1/4 inch bottom travel limiting shims, custom made and installed in the shock while the air can is deflated and unscrewed such as for normal self air can oil service, to prevent seat tube tire contact. The shimmed HD160 shock limits wheel travel to about 152 to 156mm travel. The 650b wheels more than compensate for the minor reduction in bottom travel.

    Here's a link on shock shimming instructions... http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/650b-sho...ce-623853.html

    Shock quality is entirely a personal choice. The best you know is the best you've ridden. Personally I've ridden coil suspension for about 15 years for the smoother compliance on rough trail and best mid to deep travel support for smoother trail, for plush and grippy g-loaded cornering and controlling fork brake dive without needing to over pressure or over damp as required of an air fork for good mid-travel support. I'm riding X-Fusion high end coil now, and never rode better including custom tuned Fox and RS shocks and forks. I'd imagine X-Fusion air suspension also compares very favorably to most other brands. Brian Lopes doesn't ride X-Fusion air suspension because he's paid more, he's rich already and riding for fun and to continue his winning competitive lifestyle, they work as good as it gets and are lightest in weight.

    I have no experience riding the Enve carbon rims. 2 rims would drop about 1/2 pound weight and stay near perfectly true longer compared to some of the lightest aluminum rims having about the same inner width, such as the Stans Flow rims. The cost is a lot for that 1/2 pound weight savings, way more than the old $1 per gram standard to consider, and with inflation maybe that's closer to $2 per gram to consider now days, but still it's a far higher rate per gram for Enve rims.

    Either way you order the HD, it can be easily converted between 140mm to 160mm travel (and between or less than 140mm using shock shims), and easily converted to 650b.

  52. #152
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    Keep in mind he is asking about using a 27.5 specific Fox fork. So the axle to crown should be larger than a standard 160mm Fox. So at 160mm it will probably be too tall and need to have the travel reduced.
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  53. #153
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    "Forks rarely if ever need to be shimmed to limit bottom travel if 650b clears the arch"

    From what I understand, w/o travel being limited, the tires might hit the bottom of the crown on full compression. The X-Fusion Velvet can be converted for 650B use by shimming which limits the travel by 10mm (From 140 to 130) but maintaining the same axle-to-crown height of the normal 140mm travel fork set up.

    This 650b Mojo idea is really intriguing. But the BB height will be higher. With regular 26" wheels, the BB is already pretty high.
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  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    "Forks rarely if ever need to be shimmed to limit bottom travel if 650b clears the arch"

    From what I understand, w/o travel being limited, the tires might hit the bottom of the crown on full compression. The X-Fusion Velvet can be converted for 650B use by shimming which limits the travel by 10mm (From 140 to 130) but maintaining the same axle-to-crown height of the normal 140mm travel fork set up.

    This 650b Mojo idea is really intriguing. But the BB height will be higher. With regular 26" wheels, the BB is already pretty high.
    Reports indicate current tires will clear the bottom of the crown in the 140mm setting (X-Fusion playing it safe?) with no shim needed. You should of course check for yourself by letting all the air out of the fork and slamming it down. New tires about to hit the market may not just like a non 650B specific Fox forks many people use now.

    BB height of an HD 140 with a 150mm fork and 26" wheels is 13.5". 650B wheels will bring it to 14". Yes, high for some but if you live in rocky areas not so bad.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    BB height of an HD 140 with a 150mm fork and 26" wheels is 13.5". 650B wheels will bring it to 14". Yes, high for some but if you live in rocky areas not so bad.
    ^^^ What skidad said. I am going to find out pretty soon as my HD has just arrived. My converted Nickel feels real nice with its 13.6" orig. BB height. I have enough parts to set the HD up for 160 or 140mm but my fork limits my options at the moment so I am going to run it with 140mm initially.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    ^^^ What skidad said. I am going to find out pretty soon as my HD has just arrived. My converted Nickel feels real nice with its 13.6" orig. BB height. I have enough parts to set the HD up for 160 or 140mm but my fork limits my options at the moment so I am going to run it with 140mm initially.
    StiHacka, can't wait to see that new/used (for you) HD built up and hopefully give it a try (even if I do need a large). Jamis is finally getting built this week

    I'm in lust for a bike in waiting. 650B Pivot Mach 5.7 (carbon version hopefully) or whatever they will call it when it arrives which it will. Another DW Link beauty.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  57. #157
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    Wow, very interesting thread!

  58. #158
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    Demoed a large (im 5'7") and it rode better and more comfortably than my current rig! Just ordered my frame white w red bits now 2 or 3 rings up front? Xtr trail 38/26 2x according to ibis doesn't fit so I would have to go race 42/30 which migh be too high

  59. #159
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    Can you do XT 28/40T? I plan to run it on my old design HD, Scot from Ibis confirmed that this combo should work with the SLX FD.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by deofour View Post
    I need some help from you guys that have kept me up nights foaming at the mouth over these Mojo Hd converts.
    So here is what I am thinking and so what if my kid can't go to college. I just stole a barely used 13 fox talas 160 27.5 on ebay and want to pair it with a fresh Mojo Hd frame from my lbs. I am also thinking wtf why not go for the Enve AM 650b hoops with king hubs while I'm at it.

    Should I order the 140 or the 160 Mojo Hd? If I go 140 how will the 160 on the front need to be shimmed if at all?

    RP23 for the rear?

    Anybody have experience with anything coming from Enve?

    I'm in CT, I ride local rocky technical stuff and hit Blue MT in NY and possibly MT Creek once I have the right hardware.

    Thanks in advance
    I have the HD 140 with a 150mm fork that I ride on New England trails (CT, RI, VT and NH) and I'm very happy with it. I've ridden it at Highland bike park and felt the travel was adequate for my riding (no huge drops or jumps). I do want to eventually get a separate fork and shock to run 170/160 front/rear travel but that's based more on my curiosity and never ending need to spend $ on bike parts than a need for more travel. I just got my 650b wheels and tires set up yesterday so I can't report on that yet.

  61. #161
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    We all need to petition Ibis for a specific 650b built frame,really surprised they weren't on this ASAP considering all the conversions out there,am looking at the Intense 275 the geometry seams right and bottom bracket height is good 13.3 should handle and turn well.I do not want a 275 conversion and no reason to now,the Turner Burner looks promising.but really I love my Mojo SL the sus rocks!will have to cheat until Ibis wakes up and lead in this sizing,they already have a following for it now make it real!
    Last edited by techfersure; 09-12-2012 at 04:54 AM.

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by techfersure View Post
    We all need to petition Ibis for a specific 650b built frame,really surprised they weren't on this ASAP considering all the conversions out there,am looking at the Intense 275 the geometry seams right and bottom bracket height is good 13.3 should handle and turn well.I do not want a 275 conversion and no reason to now,the Turner Burner looks promising.but really I love my Mojo SL the sus rocks!will have to cheat until Ibis wakes up and lead in this sizing,they already have a following for it now make it real!
    I agree with you here. Hd 140 obviously works very well but not so much clearance really. Purpose built 650B 140/160 would be killer that will handle all the new big tires coming down the pike and a BB height of 13.5-13.75"

    Like Turner is doing with it's DW link Burner, Pivot is also gonna build a purpose built DW link Mach 5.7 (or something like that). That's the one I'm waiting for and hopefully a carbon version also.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  63. #163
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    Finally converted!

    650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-imageuploadedbytapatalk1347799314.056557.jpg

  64. #164
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    I am probably going with a second hand inexpensive Lyrik U-Turn for the HD for now. I like its flexibility and it should carry me at least over this Fall/Winter, I hope next year there will me more options readily available. It will limit my front tire options to a 2.3 Neo but I can live with that as long as I can actually find one!

    Charmon: how do you like the 27.5 HD?

  65. #165
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    new build Ibis Mojo HD 650b

    Hey y'all
    first post but been following this thread for a while here is my new bike just finished following the good advice and lead of other members converted Mojo HD 160 to 650b/27.5...used Fox float 34 CTD 27.5 160mm and just shortened travel on RP 23 with plastic washers ( Thanks Derby!) Industry Nine wheel set w Stans and Schwalbe rubber clear just fine on rear triangle
    bike works great just took it on the backside of China Camp couple days ago.
    Verdict? beefy and loose, a nice roller for sure and feels more nimble than my specialized 29er. One thing i did notice is that on steep climbs the front end gets very light and at some point just comes off the ground. I'm thinking its because of changed geometry everything got higher due to bigger hoops so now center of gravity further back and as angle of climb goes up at some point CG gets behind rear wheel contact point, gonna slide seat forward on rails see if that helps any other ideas? Im about 6'1" so I imagine woul;dnt be as much of an issue for a shorter rider and even more for a taller rider...

    Build came in at 28.3 lbs
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  66. #166
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    Congrats an welcome to the club. It took me 50 or so miles to really get comfortable with technical climbs that included weight transfers over logs. Try the lock out on the fork to bring the cg down and forward. Short of that you can go for offset bushings for the rear as Derby has talked about multiple times.

    Here's mine Mojo HD 650 Build

  67. #167
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    My opinion FWIW...short wheelbase, slack STA combined with the height you have the seat pushes weight waaay back, and add in the 160 fork and you have a wheelie machine. Get rid of the layback dropper and also move the seat way forward. Maybe that combined with your long stem would get you over the front enough to keep the front down better.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  68. #168
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    ^^ what skidad said. Perhaps a little wider flat handlebar would work, too?

  69. #169
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    I've never been happier being 5'7" as I am right now looking at that seat post

  70. #170
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    mtb hombre-- what size is your frame?

    im currently on a m-hd 160/650b and though i like it a lot--im really starting to see where a longer wheelbase might be a good thing...

  71. #171
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    It's a L size frame. The main reason why I got this bike was to have something more nimble for tighter more technical trails and it does work very well for that so far. The seat post is not a layback version just straight the picture makes it looks that way... I like the ideas tossed out so far the other thought was the adj headset by crane creek to push the front wheel forward a tad and lengthen wheel base, but careful not to lose that " flickability"
    What's the general effect of a longer stem on steering?

  72. #172
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    Your new fork is 1cm higher then the 160 36, and you shimmed your rear end so you slackened your HTA considerably. I would consider lowering your front fork at least 10mm or using an angleset. That should help a lot with the light front end on steep climbs, and make it more nimble in tight turns. You didn't increase your HTA with the larger wheels but you did increase your Trail which supposedly feels sort of the same as slackening your head angle. I am not the most experienced here(if derby chimes in he is THE 650b mojo expert), but it would seem to me that I would try to fix the problem( slack HA) rather before starting to play with stem length, which looks long already, which will effect steering. Frame looks small for you with a long stem and very high seat.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones2 View Post
    Your new fork is 1cm higher then the 160 36, and you shimmed your rear end so you slackened your HTA considerably. I would consider lowering your front fork at least 10mm or using an angleset. That should help a lot with the light front end on steep climbs, and make it more nimble in tight turns. You didn't increase your HTA with the larger wheels but you did increase your Trail which supposedly feels sort of the same as slackening your head angle. I am not the most experienced here(if derby chimes in he is THE 650b mojo expert), but it would seem to me that I would try to fix the problem( slack HA) rather before starting to play with stem length, which looks long already, which will effect steering. Frame looks small for you with a long stem and very high seat.
    Good stuff bones with one tiny exception - when you shim the rear shock, you limit its travel (it bottoms out sooner) - you do not slacken the HA any more. If you use offset bushings, then you would either slacken (when aiming for lower BB) or steepen (when aiming for better rear wheel clearance) the HA.

  74. #174
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    The seat post is not a layback version just straight the picture makes it looks that way
    Gimme another picture please as that sure looks like an offset post to me. Rail clamps appear to be an inch or more back from the post section.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  75. #175
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    Aha now I get it, yes indeed it is an offset post. I was thinking of the seat posts that have an angle in them. BTW I did not shim the rear end just limited the travel of the shock so as to prevent the tire from hitting frame at full travel.
    so here is the new picture now that I have flipped the offset to the front of the seat post in order to move my butt forward and hopefully mitigate the wheelie tendency. gonna take it out for a ride now and see how it feels. can anybody weigh in with any anecdotal or theoretical input on the effects on steering if I put on a longer stem for the handlebars?
    Thanks!
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  76. #176
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    longer stem == slower steering, less twitchy, easier climbing, worse control in descents

  77. #177
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    worse control in descents
    Especially that. It will give you that I'm going over the bars feeling on steep downhills besides the worse control.

    Your stem is very long now for an HD (I'm guessing about a 110?). Most guys run probably a 50-75 and some shorter than a 50. Ride the bike with the change you did which is interesting and not sure I've seen that done with a dropper post but what the heck, try it out. You have effectively moved your seat almost 2" forward and that's a huge change in weight distribution. Hopefully you won't feel to cramped now so give it a few rides.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB hombre View Post
    BTW I did not shim the rear end just limited the travel of the shock
    Yeah, and how did you do that? By adding shims inside the shock, perhaps...?


    As for the stem:
    - longer = slower, "number" steering, weight forward
    - shorter = more nimble, quick and lively feel, weight back/centered

    Going for too small frame for agility was probably not the best idea, especially with Mojo, which is rather short and inherently "lively" due to 67 head angle... Such choices could be made if your height is centrally between two sizes, but looking at your cockpit setup, I think you should definitely be on one frame size up.

    IMO correct size is crucial and tuning of bike's "feel" should be made by cockpit setup, mainly stem and handlebar height and lenght.

    Speaking od which, maybe you should try wider handlebar (760-780 mm) - it will improve stability and "badassness-feel" on descents and will allow for little shorter stem (something like 70 mm?) to get lighter and faster steering (by putting ultra-long roadie-stem on a frame that is too small, you probably get the opposite effect to deserved, in terms of lively feeling bike). Wider bar puts more of your weight forward, so it also helps with climbing balance, which you're looking for.

    So to sum up: check, how the bike rides with reversed seatpost, and if you don't feel too cramped (too short cockpit), go for shorter stem and wider handlebar.
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  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I am probably going with a second hand inexpensive Lyrik U-Turn for the HD for now. I like its flexibility and it should carry me at least over this Fall/Winter, I hope next year there will me more options readily available. It will limit my front tire options to a 2.3 Neo but I can live with that as long as I can actually find one!

    Charmon: how do you like the 27.5 HD?
    Sorry for the delayed response, I missed this post. The bike is great so far. If the trails around here are muddy enough to start clogging up in the rear then I am not riding anyway so clearance hasn't been an issue. I think I've heard a few rocks scrape through which makes me cringe a little but that could be my imagination since I haven't noticed any major wear. I am VERY happy I made the investment to try it out.

  80. #180
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    Now with reversed seat post wheelie tendency is almost completely gone , except for on border line too steep to ride anyway stuff. Cockpit feels great, not cramped which I feared might be e case. seat dropper works just the same, all good. May still go for slacker headset option and maybe the wider bars gonna ride it for a while thanks for the feedbback!

  81. #181
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    Semantics

    Quote Originally Posted by wooyek View Post
    Yeah, and how did you do that? By adding shims inside the shock, .
    Yes I did add shims inside the shock but that does nothing to change the ride geometry (what was being discussed) only limits the absolute travel to keep the tire from hitting frame.
    What's Bones2 said was shim the rear end not rear shock...
    I am still figuring much of these mods out so wasn't sure whether there was some other technique he was referring to.

    I chose the Ibis Stem and bar from their store bar is 710mm and called a a DH bar, stem for the mojo and tranny vary from 80 -130 so I went for somewhat in the middle at 100mm. For me this is going to be more of an all mountain bike which I wanted for more of its descending abilities and nimbleness especially on some of the tight trails backside china camp and lake Tahoe (Dirty Harry's). The are tight tree spots on Local single track where a wide bar is not your friend which is why I chose the shorter bar but if I am giving up stability on faster downhill runs then may have to rethink that....sounds like a wider bar/shorter stem may be worth trying sometime soon.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    Sorry for the delayed response, I missed this post. The bike is great so far. If the trails around here are muddy enough to start clogging up in the rear then I am not riding anyway so clearance hasn't been an issue. I think I've heard a few rocks scrape through which makes me cringe a little but that could be my imagination since I haven't noticed any major wear. I am VERY happy I made the investment to try it out.
    Thank you Charmon. I can relate to your experience, I shall post a few pictures of mine here, soon.

  83. #183
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    Here is the most recent configuration of my HD 160. 1x9 mostly SRAM drive train with a 32T bling ring, medium cage SLX RD, XT brakes, Lyrik U-Turn, Avalanche DHX 5 coil shock, P35 & Flow rims and Hope Pro II hubs, 730mm Carver Ti flat handlebar, 60mm stem, Reverb dropper and Fyzik Gobi XM saddle. NN 2.25 front, Neo Moto 2.1 rear. Weight would be somewhere between 32 and 33 lbs.


  84. #184
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    Lookin' good! but where is the extra weight coming from? especially for a 1X9 set up..? mine weighs 28.4 lbs all up:
    HD 160 L frame w RP 23 shock
    Fox Float 34 X160 CTD650b
    Industry Nine hubs and spokes, Stans Flow EX
    Schwalbe racing ralph tubeless 2.25
    Shimano XTR 2X10 M986 drivetrain
    Shimano XTR 175 crankset and BB, PD-M785 pedals
    Avid code brakes 160/180
    Ibis 100mm stem and Ibis DH bar
    Spec Command Post Blacklite w WTB Silverado saddle


    is that a 36mm fork? s'pose the coil shock adds some grams as well definitely looks beefy.
    how do ya like the Hope hubs? Loving the I9's so far...

  85. #185
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    Both coilers are heavy, the Lyrik has 35mm legs. Add the guide/guard and not exactly lightweight wheels, tires and tubes and you are easily over 30lbs. This setup is indestructible though. Oh and I run -1 deg angleset for more slack too.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Here is the most recent configuration of my HD 160. 1x9 mostly SRAM drive train with a 32T bling ring, medium cage SLX RD, XT brakes, Lyrik U-Turn, Avalanche DHX 5 coil shock, P35 & Flow rims and Hope Pro II hubs, 730mm Carver Ti flat handlebar, 60mm stem, Reverb dropper and Fyzik Gobi XM saddle. NN 2.25 front, Neo Moto 2.1 rear. Weight would be somewhere between 32 and 33 lbs.

    Very nice! I still wish I got the Vitamin P frame. I am guessing that if I had I would probably be saying the same thing about the black though...maybe I need a second one

  87. #187
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    BB looks so high... what is height in that current configuration, if you don't mind my asking?
    For sale: NEW Race Face D2 stem, black, zero rise, 50mm length. $40

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by red bank rider View Post
    I'll take a stab at this. In order of most 650B clearance:
    Ripley!
    Mojo HD140 (rear doesn't use full 160mm of travel, so no bottoming)
    Mojo HD
    Mojo SL
    Mojo SL-R (nearly impossible)
    I know this is pretty dated but is this still the case with the 2013 models? I see the SL still uses a standard FD and 135mm rear vs. direct mount and 142.

  89. #189
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    30-ish pounds with pedals now. 1x10 Type 2 X.9, Bling Ring, Vengeance HLR Air, TrailTaker 2.4 and NoNi 2.25.



    For those interested in BB height, look at Ibis site, find the geometry info, add 1/2" for 650b wheels.

  90. #190
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    Looking really good there StiHacka A rock eating machine
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  91. #191
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    Hi guys.
    Did any of you tried putting 27.5 on the front (w/ 150 fork) and leaving the 26 on the back?
    It sounds like a perfect set, and that the frame can handle the geometry.
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks!

  92. #192
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by Boazchen View Post
    Hi guys.
    Did any of you tried putting 27.5 on the front (w/ 150 fork) and leaving the 26 on the back?
    It sounds like a perfect set, and that the frame can handle the geometry.
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks!
    Sounds weird and may make a wheelie machine out of it,plus then gotta carry two extra tubes! seems like there is some resistance to setting up MOJO HD in 160 mode w 650b-why? easy job of shimming rear shock solves problem of wheel hitting frame and then you get the additional travel over the 140 mode. the more I ride mine the more i like it, just changed out front tire from Schwalbe 650b X 2.25 Racing Ralph to the Hans Dampf 2.35 model definitely more bite in cornering...weight is up to 29.15 lbs with maybe a bit of dirt weight
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b Mojo HD ... Heavy Duty-20130325_101505.jpg  


  93. #193
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    No need to carry 2 tubes. 26" tubes work just fine on a 27.5". Muy stretchy...

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB hombre View Post
    Sounds weird and may make a wheelie machine out of it,plus then gotta carry two extra tubes! seems like there is some resistance to setting up MOJO HD in 160 mode w 650b-why? easy job of shimming rear shock solves problem of wheel hitting frame and then you get the additional travel over the 140 mode. the more I ride mine the more i like it, just changed out front tire from Schwalbe 650b X 2.25 Racing Ralph to the Hans Dampf 2.35 model definitely more bite in cornering...weight is up to 29.15 lbs with maybe a bit of dirt weight
    My thoughts were these: I ride technical grounds, but jump no more then 1m drops. So I thought to have a 140 fork (save 1/2 kg) and leave a 26'' as the rear wheel for better speed (less traction).
    Wheelies I can handle with budy weight shift, and I use tubeless so one 26'' tube just in case will do.
    My worries are about balance. Would the bike keep its glories feeling?

  95. #195
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    Yeah i see your point...although i think you meant to say glorious...only one way to find out!

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB hombre View Post
    seems like there is some resistance to setting up MOJO HD in 160 mode w 650b-why?
    Well, it voids the warranty.

  97. #197
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    I've been reading these 650b Ibis forums with great interest for 6 months. After 4 years of riding my 1st generation Mojo I decided to upgrade & build out a 650b Ibis. I've ridden an HD 140mm & a SL with a 650b front wheel with Fox 150mm 26" fork. I know, Not Recommended! I have a friend who was experimenting & I got to ride along to gather data.
    I bought a never built SL size large & have been gathering XT Dyna Sys drivetrain parts, etc. for the build. My plan is to use a Magura TS8 650b 150mm front fork(must have a 1 1/8" straight steerer) and leave the rear wheel as a 26"er. I loved the slacker HeadTube angle on the HD & am thinkin' the 650b fork & wheel will be the perfect way to slacken the HT angle of the SL, while keeping it lighter & more CC/AM like. We'll see .............
    Wil be starting the build soon & will contribute again with photos & ride info.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    30-ish pounds with pedals now. 1x10 Type 2 X.9, Bling Ring, Vengeance HLR Air, TrailTaker 2.4 and NoNi 2.25.



    For those interested in BB height, look at Ibis site, find the geometry info, add 1/2" for 650b wheels.
    Wouldn't that be "add 0.75"??

    So 13.5"(for HD140) + 0.75" = 14.25"??

    Why only 1/2 inch for you? Are the Nobby Nics considerably smaller than 27.5"?

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by red bank rider View Post
    Wouldn't that be "add 0.75"??

    So 13.5"(for HD140) + 0.75" = 14.25"??

    Why only 1/2 inch for you? Are the Nobby Nics considerably smaller than 27.5"?
    27.5" wheels are about 1" taller than 26" wheels. You can find tons of discussions about the 650b wheel size nomenclature here or on other sites, let us not go there.

  100. #200
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    I don't think anybody should hesitate for a moment to try 650b front only on their SL, SLR, or HD, assuming you've got a compatible fork. I've ridden my SL 26/26, 650/650, and 650/26 and all three are totally valid, fun, shred-able setups... They're just different. Currently I've taken the 650b rear off and put the 26" back on and it's fun...very AM-ish. This is with a 150mm Revelation with 529mm Axle to Crown, so taller/slacker than the Fox 140 or 150 setups, and resulting in head angle around 67.7 and trail of about 100mm... might not appeal to the racer boys chasing their buddies up steep non-technical climbs, and it's not the best of the 3 setups for lots of tight up hill switchbacks, but it's not terrible in either of those areas either, and it shreds everywhere else. The new dedicated 650b forks available have a little longer a-c which will slacken things further, but they also have more offset so it will keep the trail figure in check and keep things from getting too floppy.
    Last edited by doismellbacon; 04-08-2013 at 09:48 PM. Reason: correcting brain fart

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