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  1. #251
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    After lurking around this thread for a month I just couldn't wait any longer for the reviews, so I called my local Norco dealer and ordered a Range Killer B frame to replace my Turner Sultan. With the 17" chainstays and the longish TT the numbers just fit (on paper anyway). Fingers crossed. ETA... March 1st
    Last edited by wipp; 01-14-2013 at 08:11 PM.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel View Post
    Does this mean you're reviewing the Sight with the Fox fork @160mm and not the stock RS Rev? The BB height and weight shown are with the Fox? Why not the stock fork?
    I rode it for a month bone-stock. Good reminder. I'll make sure to use those photos and impressions as the primary content for that bike.

    fc

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaintPeelinPbody View Post
    francois,

    For bike reviews, especially when discussing components or geometry, you may just want to do still or slow panning shots of the bikes with no sound, and do the vocals later on inside. The background noise was distracting. In fact, for most of the video, even riding sections, we dont need to hear on camera audio really at all.

    I love MTBR, and want to see its Pro-Review section grow, but we'll need quality video reviews to compete with some of the competition.
    Good feedback. I'll definitely experiment with this.

    fc

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattack View Post
    So what is the skinny on the Jamis? I don't ever see reviews and what kind of seems like negative chatter on this thread (maybe?). I have been riding a 2012 650B for 4 months now and have been loving it. Seemed affordable and upgraded on the cheap so I'm an XTR/SLX mix with Stan's wheel set, some other nice stuff (bars, seat post) and I'm rolling 29 lbs. for about $2500.00. My problem now is that I want the 2013. Am I just wasted on the 650-Aid?
    We have a review here:
    Jamis Dakar Sixfifty B Comp and Pro Bike Test | Mountain Bike Review

    fc

  5. #255
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    I was under the impression that frames only were not avail. this year?

  6. #256
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    Frame Only

    @Tim, I just put a deposit on a frame only order. The shop called and confirmed with Norco, the only open question is when Norco would actually have them to ship to the US (est. last week of Feb).

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim22 View Post
    I was under the impression that frames only were not avail. this year?
    Range yes, Sight no...from what I remember reading someplace
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  8. #258
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    double post

  9. #259
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    Great Reviews!

    Nice start on the reviews Francois!

    Any idea what the weight difference is between the Norco Range frame and the Sight?

    Thanks.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I rode it for a month bone-stock. Good reminder. I'll make sure to use those photos and impressions as the primary content for that bike.

    fc
    Gotcha
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    @Tim, I just put a deposit on a frame only order. The shop called and confirmed with Norco, the only open question is when Norco would actually have them to ship to the US (est. last week of Feb).
    That is good to know! and:
    Retail price for the frame only?
    Which color available?

  12. #262
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    The MSRP was $2700! Luckily I got a very good discount from my shop. No word on the color, I guess I'll take what I get.

  13. #263
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    Shootout Release

    When will the shootout article be released? Initial timeline was Jan 15....which was yesterday. I'm ready to see how they all compare!

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    The MSRP was $2700! Luckily I got a very good discount from my shop. No word on the color, I guess I'll take what I get.
    $2700 is the price of the Range Killer B 3 complete build! How can they sell the frame only at the same price?

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    $2700 is the price of the Range Killer B 3 complete build! How can they sell the frame only at the same price?

    Pricey Eh!

    The frame only has a better shock than the B3, but I think amazingly thats it. I was also shopping the Turner Burner (I was going to take advantage of their trade in program) and the Intense Tracer. If you toss out the "Made in USA" value (I think it's important to support local manufacturing), both bikes were about the same price as the discounted Range and the Turner with the trade in was only a couple of hundred cheaper after you paid for the upgraded Kashima coated shock.

    I'm willing to pay the toll for the Norco because the geometry is perfect for me. At this point no one else has 17" stays with a 24.5" TT. The Intense was close but the tire clearance was just plain silly, they need to fix that. The Turner is just too low and long for my tastes these days.

    I'm hoping I made the right choice!

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    Pricey Eh!

    At this point no one else has 17" stays with a 24.5" TT. !
    The Ventana Zeus does, perhaps with some Level 1 custom upgrade ($150) if required....

  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    The MSRP was $2700! Luckily I got a very good discount from my shop. No word on the color, I guess I'll take what I get.
    Yeah, darn pricey IMO for a more mass produced aluminum frame than something like a Turner, Ventana, Intense, etc.. Good thing you got a nice discount.

    Did you look into the new Banshee Rune as a possibility? Pretty sick and versatile bike, 160mm travel, 26" or 650B with adjustable BB height and HA...and you can probably get a frame for around $1,800. The new KS Link is awesome.

    Rune | Banshee Bikes: DH Race, Freeride, All Mountain, Trail, Slopestyle, DJ/Street/4x, Aggressive Trail, Cross Country


    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  18. #268
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    Yeah I did. I was worried about dealer support in my area as I tend to need it from time to time. I like the adjustable geo idea, but the way I read it is that the low/slack setting in 650B is almost 14" at the BB with slightly longer CS and shorter TT than the Norco. The KS link is very cool, but no way to know how it rides without trying it first, where as I have a pretty good idea on the modified Horst.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Yeah, darn pricey IMO for a more mass produced aluminum frame than something like a Turner, Ventana, Intense, etc.. Good thing you got a nice discount.

    Did you look into the new Banshee Rune as a possibility? Pretty sick and versatile bike, 160mm travel, 26" or 650B with adjustable BB height and HA...and you can probably get a frame for around $1,800. The new KS Link is awesome.

    Rune | Banshee Bikes: DH Race, Freeride, All Mountain, Trail, Slopestyle, DJ/Street/4x, Aggressive Trail, Cross Country



  19. #269
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    That's something I hadn't thought of, and I have an old El Rey frame that I've been hanging onto for some reason. Does the Ventana still depend on Pro Pedal or does the new pivot placement cure some of that? My El Rey was sweet with the stock short travel rockers but it was a real sagging mess with the 5" rockers

    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    The Ventana Zeus does, perhaps with some Level 1 custom upgrade ($150) if required....

  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    That's something I hadn't thought of, and I have an old El Rey frame that I've been hanging onto for some reason. Does the Ventana still depend on Pro Pedal or does the new pivot placement cure some of that? My El Rey was sweet with the stock short travel rockers but it was a real sagging mess with the 5" rockers
    I have been riding a demo El Chucho a few times last summer and my new Zeus just a little before the snow hit. Much like all new Ventana owners have said on several threads around here, the pedaling is much much improved compared to the older frames (I had an El Ciclon so I could compare). And you can benefit from the Ventana trade-in program (30% discount on a new frame) with your old El Rey

    Disclaimer: I have no financial interest with Ventana, I just think they are completely overlooked

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    I have been riding a demo El Chucho a few times last summer and my new Zeus just a little before the snow hit. Much like all new Ventana owners have said on several threads around here, the pedaling is much much improved compared to the older frames (I had an El Ciclon so I could compare). And you can benefit from the Ventana trade-in program (30% discount on a new frame) with your old El Rey

    Disclaimer: I have no financial interest with Ventana, I just think they are completely overlooked
    Just called Ventana and I may be sold. Sherwood says he's running the Zues on buff singletrack with the CTD set on descend, even on the climbs. I'm going to measure up my bike now and see if I have to order custom or not.

    BTW: It's cool that they are there to answer questions, and even cooler that Sherwood has ridden my local trails and had time to give set up advice based on my favorites
    Last edited by wipp; 01-16-2013 at 05:11 PM.

  22. #272
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    They are so easy to speak to, just call and you end up chatting with Sherwood himself to fine tune the frame you need for your riding.... Enjoy!

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaGenerator View Post
    When will the shootout article be released? Initial timeline was Jan 15....which was yesterday. I'm ready to see how they all compare!
    Here us the link to Norco Sight Killer B review

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/norco-sight-...-650b-round-up

    The video reviews of Intense, Scott and Foes are also up on you tube. Don't think Turner is up yet
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  24. #274
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    SOLD! The trade in deal was by far the best value, the 19" frame fit stock and the only upgrade I ordered was for the 12mm thru axle rear. I knew I was hanging on to that first gen El Rey for some reason

    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    Just called Ventana and I may be sold. Sherwood says he's running the Zues on buff singletrack with the CTD set on descend, even on the climbs. I'm going to measure up my bike now and see if I have to order custom or not.

    BTW: It's cool that they are there to answer questions, and even cooler that Sherwood has ridden my local trails and had time to give set up advice based on my favorites

  25. #275
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    650 with good spec seem to be way overpriced still

  26. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudbuster View Post
    650 with good spec seem to be way overpriced still
    Correct. My enthusiasm has dampened the more I review the prices and the more it appears that some of the bikes will be difficult or impossible to get even if you have the coin.

    I can wait a year for this mess to sort itself out. Maybe by then the big companies will have 27.5" offerings, thereby increasing supply and choices, and reducing prices.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  27. #277
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    Same here. Let's add some bastardos!

  28. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    The Bastardo was no conversion! But a fun bike nonetheless
    Emphasis on was. AFAIK, Ventana now is selling only the bigger travel AM bike Zeus in 27.5"
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  29. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    The Bastardo was no conversion! But a fun bike nonetheless
    When I mentioned a "bastardo" I did not mean the Bastardo.
    I was thinking more of a bike born of 2 different parents, a 26er frame and a 650b wheel

  30. #280
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    Any reason why the range killer b was not included in the roundup? Is it too similar to the sight? Only asking cause both intense's were included

  31. #281
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    I thought at some point he mentioned he had a Range also but perhaps he's waiting to compare it to the 650 Banshee Rune which should be arriving at some point (Pink Bike has it now). At any rate Francois did mention this shootout will be a kind of work in progress as each new 650B bike becomes available to him for testing. Also absent was the Rocky Altitude (which many people were waiting for), Ventana Zues, Banshee Spitfire, and maybe a few others. For kicks I would like to see him compare the dedicated new 650 bikes to some good conversions like a Mojo HD and some of the Santa Cruz bikes (and you have to think SC is going to jump in soon with so many of their bikes being converted)
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  32. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    Pricey Eh!

    The frame only has a better shock than the B3, but I think amazingly thats it...
    Just interested, which shock is included with the "frame only" package?
    Also is/was there something else included, as someone mentioned that a reverb would be included with the frame only -set...?

  33. #283
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    Is the Burner going to be added to the shootout and if so, do you know when?

  34. #284
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    Subscribed.
    *2015 Knolly Warden,Custom Build*
    *2014 Knolly Endorphin,Custom Build*
    *2016 Ibis Mojo HD3,Custom Build*

  35. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipp View Post
    Nice start on the reviews Francois!

    Any idea what the weight difference is between the Norco Range frame and the Sight?

    Thanks.
    Have you received your Range yet wipp? What is the frameset weight? Anyone know what the Sight frameset weight is?

  36. #286
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    I ended up going with a Ventana Zues:



    Bike came in at under 29lbs dropper seatpost and peddles included.

    Quote Originally Posted by coffeeme View Post
    Have you received your Range yet wipp? What is the frameset weight? Anyone know what the Sight frameset weight is?

  37. #287
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    So...were those couple of awkward videos, which contained nothing but opinion, the entire extent of this "shoot out", or is something more thorough coming??? The videos were more about the components than the frames.
    whatever...

  38. #288
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    Yep, I joined just to make this quote: "I have been left wanting!"

  39. #289
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    I hope there is more to come, I already bought a Carbine 275 but it is interesting to hear about other bikes. Vital is doing a trail bike review and they are putting up a different bike just about everyday. It is 26, 27.5 and 29ers, they have already done a review on the Tracer 275 and the Range Killer B and I thought their reviews were very well done.

  40. #290
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    Why are they called 650b instead of 27.5" like 26 and 29?

  41. #291
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    Apparently the new term (according to MBA) is a flat 27". Fine with me.

  42. #292
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    Yeah, MBA (and Scott) can stuff their 27" nomenclature in a dark pit of despair. 27" is what old Schwinn and Raleigh road bikes use, and are still common enough that most bike shops will carry appropriate tires. If we want to see shops take up the 650b/27.5" tires as a stocking part, lets not confuse the customer from the get go.

  43. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    Yeah, MBA (and Scott) can stuff their 27" nomenclature in a dark pit of despair. 27" is what old Schwinn and Raleigh road bikes use, and are still common enough that most bike shops will carry appropriate tires. If we want to see shops take up the 650b/27.5" tires as a stocking part, lets not confuse the customer from the get go.
    Uh, can I get some of what you're smoking? Just give me what I want and label it simply enough for you to understand.

  44. #294
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    650b All Mountain Bike Shootout

    Citing MBA as your source may lead to credibility problems.


    650b is the original name for wheels with 584mm Bead seat diameter....comes from a time when wheels (in mainland Europe) were measured by the tire's outside diameter (650mm in this case), and the letter corresponded to differing tire sizes.... So 650a, b, c would all have the same outer diameter, but 3 different tire volumes and rim diameters. And yep, there was a time when there were 700a, 700b, and 700c too.....but the a's and b's fell by the wayside.
    27.5" is accurate enough, unique enough, and in keeping with other Mtb convention that it will likely stick.

  45. #295
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    How is that shootout coming along, Francois? craving info/opinions

  46. #296
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    "27.5" is accurate enough, unique enough, and in keeping with other Mtb convention that it will likely stick. "

    I just want fewer syllables!

    On a pertinent note, where are the shootout results? Is this a dead project?

  47. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPhatrick View Post
    I just want fewer syllables!
    How 'bout "Six Fiddie"

  48. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPhatrick View Post
    "27.5" is accurate enough, unique enough, and in keeping with other Mtb convention that it will likely stick. "

    I just want fewer syllables!
    "Two seventy five" is one more syllable than "twenty nine er," if that works for you. I spend lots more syllables explaining the whys and wherefores in trailhead conversations than I do just saying it. B-)

  49. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPhatrick View Post
    "27.5" is accurate enough, unique enough, and in keeping with other Mtb convention that it will likely stick. "

    I just want fewer syllables!
    Reminds me of this old SNL skit:

    SNL Transcripts: Jason Patric: 01/08/93: The Road To Self-Improvement
    To ride this trail is completely free.
    Just show me a triangle..... make it three!

  50. #300
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    I just converted my Firebird to 650B, and I would put it up against any of these bikes, and I did not have to buy a whole new bike to do it.

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