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  1. #201
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    Where's the Ventana Zeus in this shootout? Does not make sense not to include it....

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    Where's the Ventana Zeus in this shootout? Does not make sense not to include it....
    Agreed! I'll shoot an email to Ventana and see what they can do.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  3. #203
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    Could be mistaken, but Ventana doesn't offer complete builds of the Zeus. I would think that, to keep the shootout more manageable, using bikes from companies that offer complete builds would be easier. Otherwise, he'd need to source all these different parts to build them up. Having said that, I would be more interested in the 2013 Jamis XCT, than the 2012.

  4. #204
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    You're right but Ventana has provided recently fully built bikes for reviews by magazines before, so it may just be a matter of contacting them....

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    You're right but Ventana has provided recently fully built bikes for reviews by magazines before, so it may just be a matter of contacting them....
    Yeah, they'll certainly do a full build for you if you want them too.

    I think (and I hope participants will correct me if I'm wrong) that the MTBR testers contacted the companies that were offering 650b bikes about sending one to be included in this test. Ventana may have been contacted but not chosen or been able to participate? Or maybe MTBR failed to contact them?

    Personally, I'm hoping Turner sends a Burner for inclusion soon!

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC822 View Post
    You're right but Ventana has provided recently fully built bikes for reviews by magazines before, so it may just be a matter of contacting them....
    I did contact them and she said they will not be sending a bike to MTBR. It was bunt and to the point. This is to bad and I think it could hurt potential awareness and sales.

    I also contacted Lenz Sport about the new 650B Lunchbox. They had a large available for the test but MTBR needed a medium. Bad on MTBR's part for not jumping on that and finding someone to test the large size. At least an impression.
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  7. #207
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    Yes, we contacted Ventana and a few other companies. A lot of them don't have a test bike ready right now.

    What we're doing is releasing the initial round up this year. And as companies are able to send them to us, we will add them to the round up. This will be a living, breathing document for many months to come!

    fc

  8. #208
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    Finish up with the Norco so Krakatoa Bikes can get it so I can demo it =P

  9. #209
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    Photo session highlight!

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  10. #210
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    I can't wait I order a Norco Killer b sight 2 at local bike shop hopefully the bike is in by February, but doesn't matter there still be snow. Love the tread and the pics especially the Norco.

  11. #211
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    tagging along for the RM Altitude
    "Fair is foul and foul is fair." from Macbeth

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    A 4'11" rider should never be on a 5 inch 29er and a 6'4" rider should never be on a 5 inch 26er.
    yup. i just sold my XL 26" specialized 150mm enduro. loved the bike and the brain at both ends but at 6'3" i too often felt like i was perched on top of it while riding.

    need an AM rig in the stable so i'm looking at replacing it with either a pivot mach 429 carbon, scott genius 900sl, or genius 700sl so i've really enjoyed this thread.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The LTc felt huge to me with in medium (i'm 5'8") with it's long fork and big travel. It just felt like too much bike for me and it didn't fit well. The wheels were porky and I enjoyed it a lot more with carbon wheels and smaller tires.

    fc
    What size Tracer275 are you testing? (I'm same height so was curious)

    edit: ok just saw a follow up post of yours saying all test bikes were medium

  14. #214
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    gotta say the lack of info has caused me to lose interest in this shootout. Kind of thought info would be coming more frequently.

  15. #215
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    x2
    Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    need an AM rig in the stable so i'm looking at replacing it with either a pivot mach 429 carbon, scott genius 900sl, or genius 700sl so i've really enjoyed this thread.
    That is one sick bike! Don't own one, but a high level rider I know say's he is quite stoked about his. The DW Link implementation is excellent.

  17. #217
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    Nice!

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner.989 View Post
    I can't wait I order a Norco Killer b sight 2 at local bike shop hopefully the bike is in by February, but doesn't matter there still be snow. Love the tread and the pics especially the Norco.
    Had to jump on a Sight B2 this week and reserve one for a May 2013 delivery
    The Rep told the shop that their just about sold out of bikes for 2013

  19. #219
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    Hi Staz, how come your going to have to wait till may for a delivery? The local bike shop I live near never gave me a date, but I sure hope its not that late. I ordered the bike back in september, and dont no when the bikeshop placed the order though. I also saw on the internet that a bike shop has already recieved an order of the bikes. One dissapointing thing about Norco is The Canadian price is so high wish we could get American prices.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner.989 View Post
    Hi Staz, how come your going to have to wait till may for a delivery? The local bike shop I live near never gave me a date, but I sure hope its not that late. I ordered the bike back in september, and dont no when the bikeshop placed the order though. I also saw on the internet that a bike shop has already recieved an order of the bikes. One dissapointing thing about Norco is The Canadian price is so high wish we could get American prices.
    That's the delivery date the rep gave us...not sure why so long....maybe the first batch sold already and the May date is for a second run....all I know was I had to get the order in for the B-2 with a deposit ....as there were only 3 large left for the rest of 2013...they sold like hotcakes

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by staz View Post
    That's the delivery date the rep gave us...not sure why so long....maybe the first batch sold already and the May date is for a second run....all I know was I had to get the order in for the B-2 with a deposit ....as there were only 3 large left for the rest of 2013...they sold like hotcakes
    Any marketing experts in the forum who can explain this low supply strategy that so many of the few companies who have 27.5" bikes in their line have adopted? Pre order in advance or you are SOL. No bikes on the showroom floor to look at or demo. They sell out their small supply of initial production to enthusiastic buyers, then piss off the next wave who didn't feel like pre-ordering and waiting 6 mos for delivery, sight unseen, only to find they're sold out. And finally having nothing on the floor for new customers to check out and see what the fuss is about? I don't get it. Looks like buying online from Turner or Lenz might be all that is available for some of us.
    Last edited by dwt; 01-07-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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  22. #222
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    I think you could call it "caution in the face of a weak global economy, complex & dynamic market, and uncertain demand from a fickle public."

  23. #223
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    Probably true but very frustrating. Salsa has been using a similar strategy with nearly all their models, that are all pretty much sold out before they even come out. Talking with a Salsa dealer, it seems like it is the "let's not risk losing money with leftover inventory" attitude. Turner, Ventana or Lenz are indeed the solutions and fantastic bikes by the way....

  24. #224
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    Salsa's method is a good one... look at Jamis... their canadian distributor still has fifty plus 2008 models in inventory and you can find the USA side of the company dumping stuff to online dealers to put on ebay for the 2011-2012 model years. Salsa's former canadian distributor STILL has lots of leftover inventory and they stopped being the distributor several years ago.
    Last edited by DeeEight; 01-07-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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  25. #225
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    I agree, better to be in Salsa's shoes than Jamis' from a business standpoint. My LBS is a Salsa dealer and they have not been able to provide enough inventory to interested customers this year, so that sucks from a dealer and customer's standpoint, as dwt pointed out for the new 650B offerings.

  26. #226
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    I went throught they same deal with Transition Bikes last year...their Bandit 29er was a hot sell...got in on the first run with a deposit and took about 3 months to get the frame. Looks like it's the new way to sell

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by staz View Post
    . Looks like it's the new way to sell
    Screw that. If Scott and RM want me to whore myself for the privilege of paying mega thousands for their carbon bikes, sight unseen, they have a marketing strategy that leaves me cold.

    I think Intense, Norco, Jamis, KHS, Turner, Lenz, Ventana may have a better strategy. Intense Carbine, or Alloy frames, are fine by me.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Screw that. If Scott and RM want me to whore myself for the privilege of paying mega thousands for their carbon bikes, sight unseen, they have a marketing strategy that leaves me cold.

    I think Intense, Norco, Jamis, KHS, Turner, Lenz, Ventana may have a better strategy. Intense Carbine, or Alloy frames, are fine by me.
    I've never had a problem demo'ing RM's around here. I am guessing they are just being a bit cautious with their first ever 650b bike.

  29. #229
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    Its about the product actually holding its value. If their over produced or don't sell they have to be dumped. This lowers the value. Would you really pay full price for a jamis? Of course not their being dumped all over the net. Pre booking and lean forecasting are how most of these companies hold their products value. They can then mass produce the bikes that actually do sell volume. $400 hybrids are more important to a company like jamis. Idk why they even bother with carbon and full suspension their so far behind everybody else technology wise. The boutique guys like intense are building small controlled runs. Others who are building over seas and would rather make money by keeping production lean then lose money begging a mail order to buy it at their cost. You want to know your bike has a high resale value when its time for another one don't you? I've all ready picked my 650 bike but I am still looking forward to this shootout!

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsmed View Post
    I've never had a problem demo'ing RM's around here. I am guessing they are just being a bit cautious with their first ever 650b bike.
    Maybe so. I won't name names but will give a broad hint by saying that the Ketchum ID Scott/ RM dealer told me they will have Genius models in 27.5" but no RM Altitudes in the tweener size this spring. Scott USA headquarters are here so I suppose that makes sense for Scott.

    On paper to me the Altitude 790 MSL sounds just a tad sweeter than the Genius 700 SL - very similar bikes. At that price point, though, I and most consumers would insist on a demo before buying anything. If RM believes in their bike, they should send some here to compete head to head with their closest competition in a town where people have the coin to buy them.
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  31. #231
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    I dont know if anybody saw or not but pinkbike did a review on RM 650b Altitude and had nothing, but good to say.I like the RM from what I have read online but dont want that much travel. I dont have the options where I live to buy any other brand they only sell 6 brands in the town between two bike shops, and the next town is 3 hours away to far for me especially if I need warrenty work. Futhermore, hopfully the RM rides as good as it looks. I think its the best looking bike in the shootout and I,m sure it will show up soon for the shootout.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
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    So this Norco is a Sight Killer B with 160mm fork? What about a Range instead, wasn't it available for test?

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Maybe so. I won't name names but will give a broad hint by saying that the Ketchum ID Scott/ RM dealer told me they will have Genius models in 27.5" but no RM Altitudes in the tweener size this spring. Scott USA headquarters are here so I suppose that makes sense for Scott.

    On paper to me the Altitude 790 MSL sounds just a tad sweeter than the Genius 700 SL - very similar bikes. At that price point, though, I and most consumers would insist on a demo before buying anything. If RM believes in their bike, they should send some here to compete head to head with their closest competition in a town where people have the coin to buy them.
    I agree, I am in the market for a either a 750 or Tracer275, and at these prices I would only demo before buying. We have 4 or 5 RM dealers in my state and from what I understand most of them will be getting the 750 in. Only 1 Intense dealer and they do not keep a demo Carbine or Tracer275

  34. #234
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    We are targeting the shootout release forJan. 15.

    The first of seven videos is here. Check it out and comment please.

    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/upv429GUBVE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  35. #235
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    Intense Tracer 27.5 available online from Jenson. Burners from Turners site. Zeus from Ventana.

    Given the non-existence of Geniuses and the scarcity of Alititudes, I will very likely go for an easily obtainable bike online.

    Is Norco for sale online?
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  36. #236
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    [QUOTE=francois;10057228]We are targeting the shootout release forJan. 15.

    The first of seven videos is here. Check it out and comment please.

    I donít want to be overly critical, but all the information in this video is for 99% visitors of this threat very well known.
    The camera work is also terrible, why not to just make a static video? There is just too much of shaking and moving going on.
    I am looking forward to see the actual review.

  37. #237
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    Part deux

    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a48PqZhbdxc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  38. #238
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    Good job!

    I liked that last video keep up the great work MTBR !

    Thumbsup

  39. #239
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    Nice

    Great vids!!!

    Really liking the Foes F275 from what you've said already!

    Looking forward to more and detailed reviews of all the bikes in the roundup. Great Job!

  40. #240
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    Thanks for the videos. Can't wait to see the rest.

  41. #241
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    very cool, nice overview, looking forward to detailed videos on each bike. The future is bright

  42. #242
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    So what is the skinny on the Jamis? I don't ever see reviews and what kind of seems like negative chatter on this thread (maybe?). I have been riding a 2012 650B for 4 months now and have been loving it. Seemed affordable and upgraded on the cheap so I'm an XTR/SLX mix with Stan's wheel set, some other nice stuff (bars, seat post) and I'm rolling 29 lbs. for about $2500.00. My problem now is that I want the 2013. Am I just wasted on the 650-Aid?

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattack View Post
    So what is the skinny on the Jamis? I don't ever see reviews and what kind of seems like negative chatter on this thread (maybe?). I have been riding a 2012 650B for 4 months now and have been loving it. Seemed affordable and upgraded on the cheap so I'm an XTR/SLX mix with Stan's wheel set, some other nice stuff (bars, seat post) and I'm rolling 29 lbs. for about $2500.00. My problem now is that I want the 2013. Am I just wasted on the 650-Aid?
    The reviews I've seen are few I agree (2011/2012) but have been good to excellent overall. I really haven't sensed any real negative banter about the Jamis and in fact people seem to recommend them here in this forum. However, I do think some still feel Jamis is a 2nd tier brand vs. the big 4 or the smaller boutique brands and are not willing to pay the same premium prices for a current model year bike and instead wait for the leftovers and closeouts. I guess I kinda did that with my 2011 B2 (bought spring 2012) but that was more an impulse buy after reading the stellar review on the B2 and the fact I was struggling in certain conditions with my converted Prophet. And yes, the Jamis is a big improvement in about every regard and really opened my eyes to a modern 650B bikes ability, and it's a wonderful and fun trail bike.....although you may also notice in my sig it's for sale with but maybe 250 miles on it. (FWIW my road bike is a 2010 Jamis Xenith Endura and I just love the thing). Like perhaps other new potential 650 buyers and most of these bikes in the shootout I'm looking for more travel than the Dakar's 130mm, a slacker HA than 69 degrees and a higher BB than 13.4" to lessen pedal strikes (the need for a higher BB is New England conditions related and is mostly cured by tall 2.35" Schwalbe NN tires). Overall it's really a sweet bike and I'll be very curious to see how it stacks up to the new breed of 140-160mm AM bikes (although it's really in a different category). I think for 2013 Jamis should have offered a 150mm "B" bike vs slightly updating the current Dakar. Probably 2014 we will see that along with a flood of new entries from other manufacturers looking for a slice of the 650B pie.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  44. #244
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    Thx SkiDad. I am so in love with this wheel size that I am about to put a deposit on a new Scott Genius. My only worry is that I won't love the ride as much as the Jamis! What are you selling yours for? I want $1900 for mine but think that may be too steep?

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattack View Post
    Thx SkiDad. I am so in love with this wheel size that I am about to put a deposit on a new Scott Genius. My only worry is that I won't love the ride as much as the Jamis! What are you selling yours for? I want $1900 for mine but think that may be too steep?
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  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    So this Norco is a Sight Killer B with 160mm fork? What about a Range instead, wasn't it available for test?
    I'll be looking at a Range One starting in around March but don't have the capacity or time for explicit comparison tests. Will check in then.
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  47. #247
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    francois,

    For bike reviews, especially when discussing components or geometry, you may just want to do still or slow panning shots of the bikes with no sound, and do the vocals later on inside. The background noise was distracting. In fact, for most of the video, even riding sections, we dont need to hear on camera audio really at all.

    I love MTBR, and want to see its Pro-Review section grow, but we'll need quality video reviews to compete with some of the competition.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
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    Does this mean you're reviewing the Sight with the Fox fork @160mm and not the stock RS Rev? The BB height and weight shown are with the Fox? Why not the stock fork?
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  49. #249
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    Has anyone tried a 650B wheels on a 29r?

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by pidru View Post
    Has anyone tried a 650B wheels on a 29r?
    its a dumb idea... unless you're trying to build a fat tire cross bike using a 29er frameset and wanted to lower the BB further.
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