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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    If you want a lightweight, light duty 650b, then the TRc is fine. It is carbon fiber and good for 130mm travel front and rear. You'll need smaller tires front and rear like a Pacenti or Nevegal 2.2 to have some room for dirt and mud in the stays and arch.

    Then it will work good. It will be around 26 lbs and you can have the advantages of 650b.

    But if you want more travel, more cush, more tires, then you should wait. The Norco Sight, Range, Intense Tracer are much burlier bikes that can take bigger forks and tires. You can go 150mm travel front rear and put in Hans Dampf tires front and rear. This bike can do a whole lot more if that's what you're looking for.

    fc
    Yes, I am looking for a 5" 650b, lightweight.
    What I am not sure is if a 650b fork - RS Revelation at 120mm would be a good option.
    I am afraid to mess with geometry too much and 130mm 650 Revelation might push the front too high.
    Did you notice any negatives in riding with the higher BB on your 650b TRc?
    Thank you!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Yes, I am looking for a 5" 650b, lightweight.
    What I am not sure is if a 650b fork - RS Revelation at 120mm would be a good option.
    I am afraid to mess with geometry too much and 130mm 650 Revelation might push the front too high.
    Did you notice any negatives in riding with the higher BB on your 650b TRc?
    Thank you!
    X-Fusion Velvet is much loved in these parts.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Yes, I am looking for a 5" 650b, lightweight.
    What I am not sure is if a 650b fork - RS Revelation at 120mm would be a good option.
    I am afraid to mess with geometry too much and 130mm 650 Revelation might push the front too high.
    Did you notice any negatives in riding with the higher BB on your 650b TRc?
    Thank you!
    130mm 650 Revelation should not be an issue at all. The Fox 130mm is what I use on my TRc and what I used on my TRc 650b.

    The 130mm 650b Revelation may have a taller axle to crown since it's a true 650b fork but I think TRc will be just fine. I have friends that ride that bike with a 140mm and 150mm 26er and it works good.

    The stock TRc BB at 13.1 mm unsagged is very low so jacking it up to 13.6 inches is ok and on par with most All Mountain bikes these days.

    fc

  4. #104
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    Looking forward to this comparison. Wish I could be there to ride them all back to back with you.. Waiting anxiously to hear what you guys find.

    No Carbine 275? IMHO it is the bike to beat in this category. (Disclaimer: I've only ridden two of the contenders)
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  5. #105
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    Need another son? You could adopt me, seems to be pretty cool living in your house!

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Looking forward to this comparison. Wish I could be there to ride them all back to back with you.. Waiting anxiously to hear what you guys find.

    No Carbine 275? IMHO it is the bike to beat in this category. (Disclaimer: I've only ridden two of the contenders)
    Yeah, I would REALLY hope to see the Carbine 275 as it's really a different bike from the Tracer 275.

    Francois, Banshee was gonna contact you about a 650B Rune V2 (sadly no 650B Spitfires yet). Hope you guys can work something out to include the bike in the testing.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinewmexico View Post
    Need another son? You could adopt me, seems to be pretty cool living in your house!
    He is begging me for a bmx/dirt jumper right now. I would give it to him in a heartbeat but I said he needed to do 5 big mountain bike rides and he agreed. He's 3/5 right now and already planning the next two rides.

    He is finally getting it at age 12 so I couldn't be happier. We're going to Whissler next year!!

    fc

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Yeah, I would REALLY hope to see the Carbine 275 as it's really a different bike from the Tracer 275.

    Francois, Banshee was gonna contact you about a 650B Rune V2 (sadly no 650B Spitfires yet). Hope you guys can work something out to include the bike in the testing.
    Banshee is in. Did you make that happen? Their bike will arrive in December but we'll make sure to get that test going quickly.

    fc

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Looking forward to this comparison. Wish I could be there to ride them all back to back with you.. Waiting anxiously to hear what you guys find.

    No Carbine 275? IMHO it is the bike to beat in this category. (Disclaimer: I've only ridden two of the contenders)
    What's up KRob!!! I'll check on the Carbine 275. We love Tracer 275 but it is heavy with around a 7 lb frame and a stout build on our test bike.

    I don't quite understand the difference with the two bikes. They seem really close aside from materials used.

    fc

  10. #110
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    Mountain biking with your kids is the best. I'm planning a Durango trip for next summer with my 14 yr old son.

  11. #111
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    I don't quite understand the difference with the two bikes. They seem really close aside from materials used.
    Carbine 275 has 3/4" shorter WB, higher BB () and lighter weight . and is stiff. From what I've read it gives it a very different feel from the Tracer 275. Go get one!

    Awesome news on the Banshee Yeah, that was me who contacted them. Tried for the Spitfire but it's not quite ready. Rune should be pretty sweet I think.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  12. #112
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    I rode the carbine at interbike and was very impressed, more fun than my moment with a 650b front, which I really like. I REALLY want to demo the norco!!!

    KRob, fellow nevadan, did u demo it?

  13. #113
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    The Intense Carbine 275 is in. I didn't even have to contact them. They just saw this thread

    fc

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The Intense Carbine 275 is in. I didn't even have to contact them. They just saw this thread

    fc
    Dude! You are living the dream

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Dude! You are living the dream
    I am just a squirrel trying to earn a nut.

    fc

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    What's up KRob!!! I'll check on the Carbine 275. We love Tracer 275 but it is heavy with around a 7 lb frame and a stout build on our test bike.

    I don't quite understand the difference with the two bikes. They seem really close aside from materials used.

    fc
    Hey Francois. Still readjusting my mindset from the BC trip. Cool to see your son ripping it up on full sized bikes. I was shocked when I discovered that my 13 year-old fit really well on my old Hammerhead 100x (size M) when he tried it this summer. Threw on a shorter stem and riser bar and it was perfect. Having a real bike has really upped his riding as well.

    Yeah, I've been wondering that myself. Travel and geometry are similar in the 650B iteration. All things being equal, I'd rather have the ~2 lb lighter frame (which is probably stiffer too). We were surprised at how "AM" capable the 275 Carbine felt.

    Wish I could've ridden them back to back. I'll do a little research on the Intense board and report back.
    Last edited by KRob; 11-07-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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  17. #117
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    Does the Carbine 275 have 8.5 x 2.5 shock??

  18. #118
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    I recently had an issue with my 2012 650B. Pivot bolts came loose down by the BB. The RS Monarch (set to 30 % sag) seemed to work well and I was getting 80-90 % stroke, and the bike seemed to REALLY want you to stay in the saddle. Fine by me, but after riding through a compression while firmly seated, I think I bottomed the shock out. Almost immediately my chain began to rub the front derailleur while in the first 3-4 gears (while in mid ring). No rub when switched to granny, nor when in big ring. Not sure if I should add some lock tight to the bolts. I tightened bolt on right side of bike but plan to pull the crank and torque the left side down as well.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The Intense Carbine 275 is in. I didn't even have to contact them. They just saw this thread

    fc
    Sweet, nice to see a company just jump in. Same with Banshee, the guy was emailing me on a Saturday after I contacted them about your shootout. Jamis hasn't answered me in over a week about my shock issue

    What's the bike list looking like now?

    Ventana? Anyone contacted them?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosedaleReaper View Post
    I rode the carbine at interbike and was very impressed, more fun than my moment with a 650b front, which I really like. I REALLY want to demo the norco!!!

    KRob, fellow nevadan, did u demo it?
    Rode the Carbine 275 at I-bike also and we dug it.....a lot. The Burner was also very good. Too bad they won't be able to get one of those for the test.

    I really wanted to ride the Range. The Norco guys had just returned from I-bike when I was up in Vancouver but they said I could take it if I came clear across town to pick it up. I had a tight ride schedule and a date with Noel's Chilcotin that day so ended up passing.
    Last edited by KRob; 11-07-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Jamis hasn't answered me in over a week about my shock issue
    Jamis' east coast headquarters are in New Jersey. I'm waiting on Jamis too, but I'm cutting them slack cause of the hurricane.
    NEMBA Freetown VP

  22. #122
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    How is the 650b/27.5er Scott Genius for stiffness vs the mojoHD? The more i look at that scott the more im really starting to dig it.... Though that Rocky Mtn looks nice to... I like the intense but they need to make a xl frame... Im getting new bike-itis.. And the only cure is some fresh carbon...

  23. #123
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    No Burner?

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    The Burner was also very good. Too bad they won't be able to get one of those for the test.
    I thought the Burner was in the shoot out, just not available as a production model until December. Perhaps I am mistaken. I'm really looking forward to the comparison, especially given the 13" BB on the Burner. The BB on my 650b front 5.Spot is at 14" with a Neo in a Fox 140 fork and I've gotten quite used to it. Going down to 13" will certainly be different, both pro and con, IMO.

  24. #124
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    Gonna be REALLY interested in the Rocky Mountain vs. the Burner--those are the two I'm currently considering. Man, I wish it was easier to score a test ride on some of these bikes! I'd have to spend the price on a bike to travel where I'd need to go to try one out.

  25. #125
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    My Main focus: Genius vs. Altitude


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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by twangcat View Post
    I thought the Burner was in the shoot out, just not available as a production model until December. Perhaps I am mistaken. I'm really looking forward to the comparison, especially given the 13" BB on the Burner. The BB on my 650b front 5.Spot is at 14" with a Neo in a Fox 140 fork and I've gotten quite used to it. Going down to 13" will certainly be different, both pro and con, IMO.
    Maybe I misunderstood Francois when he said it wouldn't be available for a few months. I thought they sold all the prototype demos they had at I-bike/Outerbike.

    Burner??
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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by twangcat View Post
    I thought the Burner was in the shoot out, just not available as a production model until December. Perhaps I am mistaken. I'm really looking forward to the comparison, especially given the 13" BB on the Burner. The BB on my 650b front 5.Spot is at 14" with a Neo in a Fox 140 fork and I've gotten quite used to it. Going down to 13" will certainly be different, both pro and con, IMO.
    No Burner. There is a redesign going on so there will be no press demo bikes until December, best case. That means production is farther away into 2013.

    fc

  28. #128
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    Took the modified Sight out today. Kashima front/rear with 140/160. Tubeless Rocket Ron and Hans Dampf.

    I have to say it is one of the finest rides I have ever done on my 6 mile descent. 650b is here and it will take over.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6943.jpg  

    27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6953.jpg  

    27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6945.jpg  

    27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6948.jpg  


  29. #129
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    Anyone see the new Bicycling? Looks like they already did this.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Took the modified Sight out today. Kashima front/rear with 140/160. Tubeless Rocket Ron and Hans Dampf.

    I have to say it is one of the finest rides I have ever done on my 6 mile descent. 650b is here and it will take over.

    fc
    I'm curious to hear your impressions of the lighter cheaper 150mm Revelation, vs the Blingy 160/34 Fox.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Anyone see the new Bicycling? Looks like they already did this.
    As I posted in the AM Forum, this shoot out is sort if a buyer's guide for people who are already sold on the wheel siz, are set to buy a trail or AM bike in 2013, and are trying to decide which one. If you're looking for a buyer's guide or a "shoot out," and do not have the means and opportunity to demo the bikes personally, who are you going to trust, Bicycling
    Magazine or Francois and MTBR ?
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  32. #132
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    In Francois we trust! This forum is the capital of the MTB 650b universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    In Francois we trust! This forum is the capital of the MTB 650b universe.
    Oh come on, everyone knows they're in love with 650B on PB...NOT

    I'm curious to hear your impressions of the lighter cheaper 150mm Revelation, vs the Blingy 160/34 Fox.
    Good to know about both forks but I'm interested about the Revelation also.

    6 mile descent is sweet Francois but more important is how the bike(s) does on the way up that 6 miles Gravity is the easy part for these Swiss Army knife type bikes. Climbing the ugly gnarl is what will separate them for me personally
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  34. #134
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    I just ordered a Turner Burner frame today. Should ship mid December.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Anyone see the new Bicycling? Looks like they already did this.
    Yeah, I've been reading and re-reading their impressions of the Burner and Altitude. The Burner test in particular is dated--they were on a prototype with a low BB and 65 degree front end. Plus, they don't really go into much detail--it's mostly impressions and a catchy summary...which is typical for their bike reviews.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Oh come on, everyone knows they're in love with 650B on PB...NOT



    Good to know about both forks but I'm interested about the Revelation also.

    6 mile descent is sweet Francois but more important is how the bike(s) does on the way up that 6 miles Gravity is the easy part for these Swiss Army knife type bikes. Climbing the ugly gnarl is what will separate them for me personally
    Ditto , forums seem to be dominated by shuttlers, I also climb a trail before descending.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridezum View Post
    Ditto , forums seem to be dominated by shuttlers, I also climb a trail before descending.
    Rule 55 - earn your turns.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    As I posted in the AM Forum
    Congratulations!



    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    this shoot out is sort if a buyer's guide for people who are already sold on the wheel siz, are set to buy a trail or AM bike in 2013, and are trying to decide which one. If you're looking for a buyer's guide or a "shoot out," and do not have the means and opportunity to demo the bikes personally, who are you going to trust, Bicycling
    Magazine or Francois and MTBR ?
    SInce Bicycling headquarters is about an hour from where I live, and some of the writers race in local race series, Bicycling's tests, though brief, actually do carry a bit more weight with me, since they are testing on the same or similar terrain I ride...
    YMMV

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post

    Good to know about both forks but I'm interested about the Revelation also.

    6 mile descent is sweet Francois but more important is how the bike(s) does on the way up that 6 miles Gravity is the easy part for these Swiss Army knife type bikes. Climbing the ugly gnarl is what will separate them for me personally
    I agree. The best bike for me would climb and shred the descents.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raja View Post
    I agree. The best bike for me would climb and shred the descents.
    Climbing on the Norco Sight is A+. Last Saturday, I climbed 5000 feet with this bike on a mix of rocky, singletrack and steep fire roads. This bike has an FSR rear end but they have a lower rear pivot than the rear axle. This design seems to allow it to have a stable pedaling platform while climbing. I put the rear shock in 'Trail' mode and just pedaled yo without much pedal bob.

    Yesterday on the 6 mile singletrack descent, I took a 7 mile asphalt road to get back to my car. Again, climbing was fine and not a problem at all for a a big-tired 30 lb bike. I put both shocks in 'Climb' mode since I rode out of saddle a lot. The bike had no pedal bob at all front or rear but if I pounced on the bike, I could get the front and rear suspension to go down about 2 inches. I'm starting to appreciate Fox's 'Climb-Trail-Descend' system more.

    Of course the bike is 30 lbs, huge tires and has a 50mm stem so there were no Strava uphill records. But I still tried to pass a bunch of roadies. All I got were recumbents

    The Intense Tracer 275 is a great climber too. It is a very familiar system to me with the VPP rear suspension. It just climbs well with a stable platform. The rear end is sooo stiff but it is very capable on very rocky, tech climbs.

    fc

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Congratulations!
    Well, I thought the AM people might be interested. By they tend to be slack HT 26'er diehards


    SInce Bicycling headquarters is about an hour from where I live, and some of the writers race in local race series, Bicycling's tests, though brief, actually do carry a bit more weight with me, since they are testing on the same or similar terrain I ride...
    YMMV
    Where and what terrain? Thx


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  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    I'm curious to hear your impressions of the lighter cheaper 150mm Revelation, vs the Blingy 160/34 Fox.
    The 140mm Revelation was very impressive indeed. It was plush and controlled. It did not hold back the Norco Sight at all and even matched up well with that Fox CTD shock in the rear.

    That fork with a big 650b front tire can manhandle most terrain I think. It is light too at under 4 lbs.

    I only have two rides on the Fox 160mm Kashima CTD 650b fork. It is heavier by about half a pound compared to the Rockshox. It is way more tuneable and easier to set up initally. CTD is up top and rebound at the bottom. The 'Trail' mode has another tuning dial to set preferences. The 34 mm stanchions is just ready for a fight. Rut and rock deflection is minimized. And fork flex under heavy braking is now removed from the experience. You don't really know it's affecting you when using other forks until you experience how good it is on this fork. Just a couple rides so far so more impressions coming on the Fox fork.

    fc
    Last edited by fc; 11-10-2012 at 10:24 PM.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post

    Where and what terrain? Thx


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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    This is a good point. It's just that I've had this 2012 Jamis test bike for the last three months. I'll ask them for a new one on Monday.

    fc
    fc,
    Did you ever hear from Jamis about getting a 2013. I know they've been going through some weather stuff, but just curious. Rode one of these @ outerbike, and it was great.

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    Also Francois,

    When you get the Scott I'd like to know your feeling about the long 29'erish wheel base and how it feels in every way vs the other bikes.

    It's got about an inch on most of the bikes, 2 " over the Jamis and 2.5" over a 650B HD 140
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Also Francois,

    When you get the Scott I'd like to know your feeling about the long 29'erish wheel base and how it feels in every way vs the other bikes.

    It's got about an inch on most of the bikes, 2 " over the Jamis and 2.5" over a 650B HD 140
    That's an interesting detail I had not noticed.

    And is another example of how this shoot-out is cool, given the fact that most will not be able to personally demo all or many of these bikes ourselves. Other than the one we end up buying.


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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Also Francois,

    When you get the Scott I'd like to know your feeling about the long 29'erish wheel base and how it feels in every way vs the other bikes.

    It's got about an inch on most of the bikes, 2 " over the Jamis and 2.5" over a 650B HD 140
    Wheelbase and cost are going to be the main concerns on the Scott. I rode it in the Bootleg Canyon desert and while it handled the rocky desert pretty well. It might not do as well in the very tight stuff. Also, they have a rear locking DT shock that is synced with the front locking fork. Cool stuff but is definitely bleeding edge. And DT is not as tuneable or reliable as a Fox.

    I have my TRc still and I will be putting the 140mm Rockshox 650b Revelation fork on it. Should be super cool. The wheelbase on it is sooo short (probably like the HD) and it will be good to stretch it out a tad.

    Check out the photos of the Scott and TRc here and you'll see the contrast in wheelbases. 650b/27.5″ Mountain Bikes and Components | Mountain Bike Review

    fc

  48. #148
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    Are you going to keep the Rockshox at 140mm?
    If I am not mistaken, A/C at 140mm for 650b will be 529mm. That sounds like too far from intended 501mm (130mm 26")...

  49. #149
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Are you going to keep the Rockshox at 140mm?
    If I am not mistaken, A/C at 140mm for 650b will be 529mm. That sounds like too far from intended 501mm (130mm 26")...
    Great question. Can this Rockshox be converted easily?

    I've ridden the TRc with a 150mm 26er fork and it's pretty good. Canadian ready good.

    fc

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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Great question. Can this Rockshox be converted easily?

    I've ridden the TRc with a 150mm 26er fork and it's pretty good. Canadian ready good.

    fc
    Again, if I am not mistaken, the new Revelation can't be converted easily, you will need to replace the whole internals in order to change the travel, which would be costly...

    150mm 26er = 521mm A/C
    140mm 650b = 529mm A/C

    You will still be about 8mm higher on the 650b fork compered to the 26er...= higher BB, slacker HA... It might be good on descends, but I am not so sure about climbing and flats...
    This is the reason I am considering a 130mm RS Revelation (519mm A/C)
    Let us now how you like it.
    Thanks for doing all the testing, cannot wait for the results

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