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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    If you want a lightweight, light duty 650b, then the TRc is fine. It is carbon fiber and good for 130mm travel front and rear. You'll need smaller tires front and rear like a Pacenti or Nevegal 2.2 to have some room for dirt and mud in the stays and arch.

    Then it will work good. It will be around 26 lbs and you can have the advantages of 650b.

    But if you want more travel, more cush, more tires, then you should wait. The Norco Sight, Range, Intense Tracer are much burlier bikes that can take bigger forks and tires. You can go 150mm travel front rear and put in Hans Dampf tires front and rear. This bike can do a whole lot more if that's what you're looking for.

    fc
    Yes, I am looking for a 5" 650b, lightweight.
    What I am not sure is if a 650b fork - RS Revelation at 120mm would be a good option.
    I am afraid to mess with geometry too much and 130mm 650 Revelation might push the front too high.
    Did you notice any negatives in riding with the higher BB on your 650b TRc?
    Thank you!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Yes, I am looking for a 5" 650b, lightweight.
    What I am not sure is if a 650b fork - RS Revelation at 120mm would be a good option.
    I am afraid to mess with geometry too much and 130mm 650 Revelation might push the front too high.
    Did you notice any negatives in riding with the higher BB on your 650b TRc?
    Thank you!
    X-Fusion Velvet is much loved in these parts.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Yes, I am looking for a 5" 650b, lightweight.
    What I am not sure is if a 650b fork - RS Revelation at 120mm would be a good option.
    I am afraid to mess with geometry too much and 130mm 650 Revelation might push the front too high.
    Did you notice any negatives in riding with the higher BB on your 650b TRc?
    Thank you!
    130mm 650 Revelation should not be an issue at all. The Fox 130mm is what I use on my TRc and what I used on my TRc 650b.

    The 130mm 650b Revelation may have a taller axle to crown since it's a true 650b fork but I think TRc will be just fine. I have friends that ride that bike with a 140mm and 150mm 26er and it works good.

    The stock TRc BB at 13.1 mm unsagged is very low so jacking it up to 13.6 inches is ok and on par with most All Mountain bikes these days.

    fc

  4. #104
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    Looking forward to this comparison. Wish I could be there to ride them all back to back with you.. Waiting anxiously to hear what you guys find.

    No Carbine 275? IMHO it is the bike to beat in this category. (Disclaimer: I've only ridden two of the contenders)
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  5. #105
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    Need another son? You could adopt me, seems to be pretty cool living in your house!

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Looking forward to this comparison. Wish I could be there to ride them all back to back with you.. Waiting anxiously to hear what you guys find.

    No Carbine 275? IMHO it is the bike to beat in this category. (Disclaimer: I've only ridden two of the contenders)
    Yeah, I would REALLY hope to see the Carbine 275 as it's really a different bike from the Tracer 275.

    Francois, Banshee was gonna contact you about a 650B Rune V2 (sadly no 650B Spitfires yet). Hope you guys can work something out to include the bike in the testing.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinewmexico View Post
    Need another son? You could adopt me, seems to be pretty cool living in your house!
    He is begging me for a bmx/dirt jumper right now. I would give it to him in a heartbeat but I said he needed to do 5 big mountain bike rides and he agreed. He's 3/5 right now and already planning the next two rides.

    He is finally getting it at age 12 so I couldn't be happier. We're going to Whissler next year!!

    fc

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Yeah, I would REALLY hope to see the Carbine 275 as it's really a different bike from the Tracer 275.

    Francois, Banshee was gonna contact you about a 650B Rune V2 (sadly no 650B Spitfires yet). Hope you guys can work something out to include the bike in the testing.
    Banshee is in. Did you make that happen? Their bike will arrive in December but we'll make sure to get that test going quickly.

    fc

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Looking forward to this comparison. Wish I could be there to ride them all back to back with you.. Waiting anxiously to hear what you guys find.

    No Carbine 275? IMHO it is the bike to beat in this category. (Disclaimer: I've only ridden two of the contenders)
    What's up KRob!!! I'll check on the Carbine 275. We love Tracer 275 but it is heavy with around a 7 lb frame and a stout build on our test bike.

    I don't quite understand the difference with the two bikes. They seem really close aside from materials used.

    fc

  10. #110
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    Mountain biking with your kids is the best. I'm planning a Durango trip for next summer with my 14 yr old son.

  11. #111
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    I don't quite understand the difference with the two bikes. They seem really close aside from materials used.
    Carbine 275 has 3/4" shorter WB, higher BB () and lighter weight . and is stiff. From what I've read it gives it a very different feel from the Tracer 275. Go get one!

    Awesome news on the Banshee Yeah, that was me who contacted them. Tried for the Spitfire but it's not quite ready. Rune should be pretty sweet I think.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  12. #112
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    I rode the carbine at interbike and was very impressed, more fun than my moment with a 650b front, which I really like. I REALLY want to demo the norco!!!

    KRob, fellow nevadan, did u demo it?

  13. #113
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    The Intense Carbine 275 is in. I didn't even have to contact them. They just saw this thread

    fc

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The Intense Carbine 275 is in. I didn't even have to contact them. They just saw this thread

    fc
    Dude! You are living the dream

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Dude! You are living the dream
    I am just a squirrel trying to earn a nut.

    fc

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    What's up KRob!!! I'll check on the Carbine 275. We love Tracer 275 but it is heavy with around a 7 lb frame and a stout build on our test bike.

    I don't quite understand the difference with the two bikes. They seem really close aside from materials used.

    fc
    Hey Francois. Still readjusting my mindset from the BC trip. Cool to see your son ripping it up on full sized bikes. I was shocked when I discovered that my 13 year-old fit really well on my old Hammerhead 100x (size M) when he tried it this summer. Threw on a shorter stem and riser bar and it was perfect. Having a real bike has really upped his riding as well.

    Yeah, I've been wondering that myself. Travel and geometry are similar in the 650B iteration. All things being equal, I'd rather have the ~2 lb lighter frame (which is probably stiffer too). We were surprised at how "AM" capable the 275 Carbine felt.

    Wish I could've ridden them back to back. I'll do a little research on the Intense board and report back.
    Last edited by KRob; 11-07-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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  17. #117
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    Does the Carbine 275 have 8.5 x 2.5 shock??

  18. #118
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    I recently had an issue with my 2012 650B. Pivot bolts came loose down by the BB. The RS Monarch (set to 30 % sag) seemed to work well and I was getting 80-90 % stroke, and the bike seemed to REALLY want you to stay in the saddle. Fine by me, but after riding through a compression while firmly seated, I think I bottomed the shock out. Almost immediately my chain began to rub the front derailleur while in the first 3-4 gears (while in mid ring). No rub when switched to granny, nor when in big ring. Not sure if I should add some lock tight to the bolts. I tightened bolt on right side of bike but plan to pull the crank and torque the left side down as well.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The Intense Carbine 275 is in. I didn't even have to contact them. They just saw this thread

    fc
    Sweet, nice to see a company just jump in. Same with Banshee, the guy was emailing me on a Saturday after I contacted them about your shootout. Jamis hasn't answered me in over a week about my shock issue

    What's the bike list looking like now?

    Ventana? Anyone contacted them?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosedaleReaper View Post
    I rode the carbine at interbike and was very impressed, more fun than my moment with a 650b front, which I really like. I REALLY want to demo the norco!!!

    KRob, fellow nevadan, did u demo it?
    Rode the Carbine 275 at I-bike also and we dug it.....a lot. The Burner was also very good. Too bad they won't be able to get one of those for the test.

    I really wanted to ride the Range. The Norco guys had just returned from I-bike when I was up in Vancouver but they said I could take it if I came clear across town to pick it up. I had a tight ride schedule and a date with Noel's Chilcotin that day so ended up passing.
    Last edited by KRob; 11-07-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Jamis hasn't answered me in over a week about my shock issue
    Jamis' east coast headquarters are in New Jersey. I'm waiting on Jamis too, but I'm cutting them slack cause of the hurricane.
    NEMBA Freetown VP

  22. #122
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    How is the 650b/27.5er Scott Genius for stiffness vs the mojoHD? The more i look at that scott the more im really starting to dig it.... Though that Rocky Mtn looks nice to... I like the intense but they need to make a xl frame... Im getting new bike-itis.. And the only cure is some fresh carbon...

  23. #123
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    No Burner?

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    The Burner was also very good. Too bad they won't be able to get one of those for the test.
    I thought the Burner was in the shoot out, just not available as a production model until December. Perhaps I am mistaken. I'm really looking forward to the comparison, especially given the 13" BB on the Burner. The BB on my 650b front 5.Spot is at 14" with a Neo in a Fox 140 fork and I've gotten quite used to it. Going down to 13" will certainly be different, both pro and con, IMO.

  24. #124
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    Gonna be REALLY interested in the Rocky Mountain vs. the Burner--those are the two I'm currently considering. Man, I wish it was easier to score a test ride on some of these bikes! I'd have to spend the price on a bike to travel where I'd need to go to try one out.

  25. #125
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    My Main focus: Genius vs. Altitude


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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by twangcat View Post
    I thought the Burner was in the shoot out, just not available as a production model until December. Perhaps I am mistaken. I'm really looking forward to the comparison, especially given the 13" BB on the Burner. The BB on my 650b front 5.Spot is at 14" with a Neo in a Fox 140 fork and I've gotten quite used to it. Going down to 13" will certainly be different, both pro and con, IMO.
    Maybe I misunderstood Francois when he said it wouldn't be available for a few months. I thought they sold all the prototype demos they had at I-bike/Outerbike.

    Burner??
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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by twangcat View Post
    I thought the Burner was in the shoot out, just not available as a production model until December. Perhaps I am mistaken. I'm really looking forward to the comparison, especially given the 13" BB on the Burner. The BB on my 650b front 5.Spot is at 14" with a Neo in a Fox 140 fork and I've gotten quite used to it. Going down to 13" will certainly be different, both pro and con, IMO.
    No Burner. There is a redesign going on so there will be no press demo bikes until December, best case. That means production is farther away into 2013.

    fc

  28. #128
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    Took the modified Sight out today. Kashima front/rear with 140/160. Tubeless Rocket Ron and Hans Dampf.

    I have to say it is one of the finest rides I have ever done on my 6 mile descent. 650b is here and it will take over.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6943.jpg  

    27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6953.jpg  

    27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6945.jpg  

    27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-img_6948.jpg  


  29. #129
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    Anyone see the new Bicycling? Looks like they already did this.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Took the modified Sight out today. Kashima front/rear with 140/160. Tubeless Rocket Ron and Hans Dampf.

    I have to say it is one of the finest rides I have ever done on my 6 mile descent. 650b is here and it will take over.

    fc
    I'm curious to hear your impressions of the lighter cheaper 150mm Revelation, vs the Blingy 160/34 Fox.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Anyone see the new Bicycling? Looks like they already did this.
    As I posted in the AM Forum, this shoot out is sort if a buyer's guide for people who are already sold on the wheel siz, are set to buy a trail or AM bike in 2013, and are trying to decide which one. If you're looking for a buyer's guide or a "shoot out," and do not have the means and opportunity to demo the bikes personally, who are you going to trust, Bicycling
    Magazine or Francois and MTBR ?
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  32. #132
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    In Francois we trust! This forum is the capital of the MTB 650b universe.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    In Francois we trust! This forum is the capital of the MTB 650b universe.
    Oh come on, everyone knows they're in love with 650B on PB...NOT

    I'm curious to hear your impressions of the lighter cheaper 150mm Revelation, vs the Blingy 160/34 Fox.
    Good to know about both forks but I'm interested about the Revelation also.

    6 mile descent is sweet Francois but more important is how the bike(s) does on the way up that 6 miles Gravity is the easy part for these Swiss Army knife type bikes. Climbing the ugly gnarl is what will separate them for me personally
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  34. #134
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    I just ordered a Turner Burner frame today. Should ship mid December.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Anyone see the new Bicycling? Looks like they already did this.
    Yeah, I've been reading and re-reading their impressions of the Burner and Altitude. The Burner test in particular is dated--they were on a prototype with a low BB and 65 degree front end. Plus, they don't really go into much detail--it's mostly impressions and a catchy summary...which is typical for their bike reviews.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Oh come on, everyone knows they're in love with 650B on PB...NOT



    Good to know about both forks but I'm interested about the Revelation also.

    6 mile descent is sweet Francois but more important is how the bike(s) does on the way up that 6 miles Gravity is the easy part for these Swiss Army knife type bikes. Climbing the ugly gnarl is what will separate them for me personally
    Ditto , forums seem to be dominated by shuttlers, I also climb a trail before descending.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridezum View Post
    Ditto , forums seem to be dominated by shuttlers, I also climb a trail before descending.
    Rule 55 - earn your turns.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    As I posted in the AM Forum
    Congratulations!



    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    this shoot out is sort if a buyer's guide for people who are already sold on the wheel siz, are set to buy a trail or AM bike in 2013, and are trying to decide which one. If you're looking for a buyer's guide or a "shoot out," and do not have the means and opportunity to demo the bikes personally, who are you going to trust, Bicycling
    Magazine or Francois and MTBR ?
    SInce Bicycling headquarters is about an hour from where I live, and some of the writers race in local race series, Bicycling's tests, though brief, actually do carry a bit more weight with me, since they are testing on the same or similar terrain I ride...
    YMMV

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post

    Good to know about both forks but I'm interested about the Revelation also.

    6 mile descent is sweet Francois but more important is how the bike(s) does on the way up that 6 miles Gravity is the easy part for these Swiss Army knife type bikes. Climbing the ugly gnarl is what will separate them for me personally
    I agree. The best bike for me would climb and shred the descents.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raja View Post
    I agree. The best bike for me would climb and shred the descents.
    Climbing on the Norco Sight is A+. Last Saturday, I climbed 5000 feet with this bike on a mix of rocky, singletrack and steep fire roads. This bike has an FSR rear end but they have a lower rear pivot than the rear axle. This design seems to allow it to have a stable pedaling platform while climbing. I put the rear shock in 'Trail' mode and just pedaled yo without much pedal bob.

    Yesterday on the 6 mile singletrack descent, I took a 7 mile asphalt road to get back to my car. Again, climbing was fine and not a problem at all for a a big-tired 30 lb bike. I put both shocks in 'Climb' mode since I rode out of saddle a lot. The bike had no pedal bob at all front or rear but if I pounced on the bike, I could get the front and rear suspension to go down about 2 inches. I'm starting to appreciate Fox's 'Climb-Trail-Descend' system more.

    Of course the bike is 30 lbs, huge tires and has a 50mm stem so there were no Strava uphill records. But I still tried to pass a bunch of roadies. All I got were recumbents

    The Intense Tracer 275 is a great climber too. It is a very familiar system to me with the VPP rear suspension. It just climbs well with a stable platform. The rear end is sooo stiff but it is very capable on very rocky, tech climbs.

    fc

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Congratulations!
    Well, I thought the AM people might be interested. By they tend to be slack HT 26'er diehards


    SInce Bicycling headquarters is about an hour from where I live, and some of the writers race in local race series, Bicycling's tests, though brief, actually do carry a bit more weight with me, since they are testing on the same or similar terrain I ride...
    YMMV
    Where and what terrain? Thx


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  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    I'm curious to hear your impressions of the lighter cheaper 150mm Revelation, vs the Blingy 160/34 Fox.
    The 140mm Revelation was very impressive indeed. It was plush and controlled. It did not hold back the Norco Sight at all and even matched up well with that Fox CTD shock in the rear.

    That fork with a big 650b front tire can manhandle most terrain I think. It is light too at under 4 lbs.

    I only have two rides on the Fox 160mm Kashima CTD 650b fork. It is heavier by about half a pound compared to the Rockshox. It is way more tuneable and easier to set up initally. CTD is up top and rebound at the bottom. The 'Trail' mode has another tuning dial to set preferences. The 34 mm stanchions is just ready for a fight. Rut and rock deflection is minimized. And fork flex under heavy braking is now removed from the experience. You don't really know it's affecting you when using other forks until you experience how good it is on this fork. Just a couple rides so far so more impressions coming on the Fox fork.

    fc
    Last edited by fc; 11-10-2012 at 10:24 PM.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post

    Where and what terrain? Thx


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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    This is a good point. It's just that I've had this 2012 Jamis test bike for the last three months. I'll ask them for a new one on Monday.

    fc
    fc,
    Did you ever hear from Jamis about getting a 2013. I know they've been going through some weather stuff, but just curious. Rode one of these @ outerbike, and it was great.

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    Also Francois,

    When you get the Scott I'd like to know your feeling about the long 29'erish wheel base and how it feels in every way vs the other bikes.

    It's got about an inch on most of the bikes, 2 " over the Jamis and 2.5" over a 650B HD 140
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Also Francois,

    When you get the Scott I'd like to know your feeling about the long 29'erish wheel base and how it feels in every way vs the other bikes.

    It's got about an inch on most of the bikes, 2 " over the Jamis and 2.5" over a 650B HD 140
    That's an interesting detail I had not noticed.

    And is another example of how this shoot-out is cool, given the fact that most will not be able to personally demo all or many of these bikes ourselves. Other than the one we end up buying.


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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Also Francois,

    When you get the Scott I'd like to know your feeling about the long 29'erish wheel base and how it feels in every way vs the other bikes.

    It's got about an inch on most of the bikes, 2 " over the Jamis and 2.5" over a 650B HD 140
    Wheelbase and cost are going to be the main concerns on the Scott. I rode it in the Bootleg Canyon desert and while it handled the rocky desert pretty well. It might not do as well in the very tight stuff. Also, they have a rear locking DT shock that is synced with the front locking fork. Cool stuff but is definitely bleeding edge. And DT is not as tuneable or reliable as a Fox.

    I have my TRc still and I will be putting the 140mm Rockshox 650b Revelation fork on it. Should be super cool. The wheelbase on it is sooo short (probably like the HD) and it will be good to stretch it out a tad.

    Check out the photos of the Scott and TRc here and you'll see the contrast in wheelbases. 650b/27.5″ Mountain Bikes and Components | Mountain Bike Review

    fc

  48. #148
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    Are you going to keep the Rockshox at 140mm?
    If I am not mistaken, A/C at 140mm for 650b will be 529mm. That sounds like too far from intended 501mm (130mm 26")...

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Are you going to keep the Rockshox at 140mm?
    If I am not mistaken, A/C at 140mm for 650b will be 529mm. That sounds like too far from intended 501mm (130mm 26")...
    Great question. Can this Rockshox be converted easily?

    I've ridden the TRc with a 150mm 26er fork and it's pretty good. Canadian ready good.

    fc

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Great question. Can this Rockshox be converted easily?

    I've ridden the TRc with a 150mm 26er fork and it's pretty good. Canadian ready good.

    fc
    Again, if I am not mistaken, the new Revelation can't be converted easily, you will need to replace the whole internals in order to change the travel, which would be costly...

    150mm 26er = 521mm A/C
    140mm 650b = 529mm A/C

    You will still be about 8mm higher on the 650b fork compered to the 26er...= higher BB, slacker HA... It might be good on descends, but I am not so sure about climbing and flats...
    This is the reason I am considering a 130mm RS Revelation (519mm A/C)
    Let us now how you like it.
    Thanks for doing all the testing, cannot wait for the results

  51. #151
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    Where you able to get a Mojo HD 140 650b? I know you said that should not be a problem. Not production but it is authorized.

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    Wheelbase and cost are going to be the main concerns on the Scott. I rode it in the Bootleg Canyon desert and while it handled the rocky desert pretty well. It might not do as well in the very tight stuff. Also, they have a rear locking DT shock that is synced with the front locking fork. Cool stuff but is definitely bleeding edge. And DT is not as tuneable or reliable as a Fox.
    I don't think I'm interested in the Scott to purchase but it's geo is about the closest of all the bikes to the new 650B Banshee Spitfire (sadly not ready for this test) that I'm REALLY interested in although my conditions are tight rocky chunk for the most part. The DT shock on the Scott is a turnoff for me as well besides price. Nice light weight though.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    have a tracer 275 on order. looking forward to the review. Looking forward to riding my new bike one of these days too

  54. #154
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    Scott Genius 720 ($4700 build) will be here in a few days.

    Intense Carbine too. Things are heating up

    I shot a video with the Norco Sight last night on a tight and bumpy trail called Waterdog, CA.

    <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NVk5RR75sC0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    fc

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    Tracer 275 or Norco Sight B.?

    So far it looks like you've been riding the Norco alot and curious why not the tracer .?
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  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Scott Genius 720 ($4700 build) will be here in a few days.

    Intense Carbine too. Things are heating up

    I shot a video with the Norco Sight last night on a tight and bumpy trail called Waterdog, CA.


    fc
    Hey Ultra Lord, I'm not sure if I understand your "shootout" format. "Shootout" articles are normally after all of the bikes have been tested, opinions and data analysed and the information presented at one time comparing them all by different parameters. This seems to be a thread that is just talking about different bikes your getting, and because there is a new response everyday, it seems to stay at the top. SO, would you PLEASE put this thread http://forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/my-...rs-376656.html back to the top as a "Sticky?" There is a lot of valuable info in there for people wanting to try 650b and was once a sticky to be easily seen.

    I look forward to the results of your "shootout."
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  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post
    Hey Ultra Lord, I'm not sure if I understand your "shootout" format. "Shootout" articles are normally after all of the bikes have been tested, opinions and data analysed and the information presented at one time comparing them all by different parameters. This seems to be a thread that is just talking about different bikes your getting, and because there is a new response everyday, it seems to stay at the top. SO, would you PLEASE put this thread http://forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/my-...rs-376656.html back to the top as a "Sticky?" There is a lot of valuable info in there for people wanting to try 650b and was once a sticky to be easily seen.

    I look forward to the results of your "shootout."
    +1

    Maybe a simple spreadsheet listing the bikes, various categories of performance and function, and ratings on whatever scale you find appropriate

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    Last edited by dwt; 11-14-2012 at 04:15 PM. Reason: new stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Took the modified Sight out today. Kashima front/rear with 140/160. Tubeless Rocket Ron and Hans Dampf.

    I have to say it is one of the finest rides I have ever done on my 6 mile descent. 650b is here and it will take over.

    fc
    That Sight sure looks nice. I'm a 650 fan but in the end I caved and decided not to wait and went and bought a Tallboy LTc, which I know you were also a fan of.

    I am curious as to how the 650 bikes like the Sight stand up against good long travel (high end) 29ers like the Tallboy LTc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    That Sight sure looks nice. I'm a 650 fan but in the end I caved and decided not to wait and went and bought a Tallboy LTc, which I know you were also a fan of.

    I am curious as to how the 650 bikes like the Sight stand up against good long travel (high end) 29ers like the Tallboy LTc?
    And against the Sultan, which I'm demoing today! The Sight and RM Altitude have my attention in the 650b class.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    That Sight sure looks nice. I'm a 650 fan but in the end I caved and decided not to wait and went and bought a Tallboy LTc, which I know you were also a fan of.

    I am curious as to how the 650 bikes like the Sight stand up against good long travel (high end) 29ers like the Tallboy LTc?
    My buddy and I got got Tallboy LTc for the weekend and shot a couple of videos:
    Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc Carbon All Mountain 29er bike - YouTube
    Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc 29er carbon All Mountain Bike - YouTube

    I think the Tallboy LTc and the Specialized Stumpy EVO 29ers are the best of breed of long travel 29ers. They are well thought out and do everything well.

    But travel is not quite that high as they limit it to 135mm or 140mm. So a comparison with a 150mm or 160mm travel 650b is appropriate.

    The 650b is easier to throw around in mid air. It is easier to adjust the attitude or style in mid-air. It's also easier tho throw the bike into a corner and carve.

    The 29er will handle obstacles better and I remember the Tallboy LTc cushioned all the blows on my hard landings on the video.

    In the end, I think the 150mm travel 650bs will be more fun to ride and more agile under capable hands.

    The LTc felt huge to me with in medium (i'm 5'8") with it's long fork and big travel. It just felt like too much bike for me and it didn't fit well. The wheels were porky and I enjoyed it a lot more with carbon wheels and smaller tires.

    fc

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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The LTc felt huge to me with in medium (i'm 5'8") with it's long fork and big travel. It just felt like too much bike for me and it didn't fit well. The wheels were porky and I enjoyed it a lot more with carbon wheels and smaller tires.

    fc
    So that is an interesting point. The size of the rider can obviously affect how a bike feels to them. I can fully appreciate that someone of your, ahem, stature could probably prefer the sizing of a 650 over a 29er. Yes the TBLTc is a big bike. I'm nearly 6ft and at first I thought the bike (a large) was big at first (especially compared to my 26er) but now it feels a great fit.

    I still like the 27ers though so i am still watching this segment. Will you have tall riders in this shootout to give their opinions on fit?

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerryn View Post
    So that is an interesting point. The size of the rider can obviously affect how a bike feels to them. I can fully appreciate that someone of your, ahem, stature could probably prefer the sizing of a 650 over a 29er. Yes the TBLTc is a big bike. I'm nearly 6ft and at first I thought the bike (a large) was big at first (especially compared to my 26er) but now it feels a great fit.

    I still like the 27ers though so i am still watching this segment. Will you have tall riders in this shootout to give their opinions on fit?
    Yes! In the future, height will be very relevant to wheel size choice. A 4'11" rider should never be on a 5 inch 29er and a 6'4" rider should never be on a 5 inch 26er. Fit the darn rider and throw away the shoe horn.

    All the test bikes are medium so all the test riders will be in the same neighborhood of 5'7" to 5'10 I think.

    fc

  63. #163
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    Thank you for making it a sticky again!
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  64. #164
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    The Scott 720 just landed.
    Scott Genius 720 Photos and Preview | Mountain Bike Review

    A user commented that all lower priced Scott 650bs were sold out. True?

    fc

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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The Scott 720 just landed.

    A user commented that all lower priced Scott 650bs were sold out. True?

    fc
    Funny. I bought my lightly used Jamis 650B because I was concerned about availability of the new Scott and Rocky Mountain mid level bikes. When neither company was keen to giving ANY kind of deal for a Sept. pre-order, and then Rocky Mtn. mentioned that the bikes would be "scarce" to begin with, I jumped on my set up. Love the ride and now am looking to sell my 26" Trek Top Fuel. I will miss the carbon frame, but only until I buy a new carbon Rocky Mtn. frame!

    And BTW, the ride has GOTS to be a climber if it is for me!

  66. #166
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    Giant 650b?

    Francois, do you (or anybody else out there) know if Giant has any plans on a 650b?

  67. #167
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    My Custom 650b Ti from Generic Cycles

    Just wanted to show off my new ride...Couldn't ask for anything better. Formula Brakes, XT and Truvativ drive-train, American Classic Wheel set, LOOK pedals, White Brothers Magic, Thomson Post and Stem, Easton Carbon Bar, Chris King Inset Headset
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-bike3.jpg  

    Last edited by JonL; 11-21-2012 at 09:36 AM.

  68. #168
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    Wow! Custom Ti 650b hardtail made in CO??
    Schhwwiiing
    That thing looks pretty rad. Can you post a closeup of the seat tube?... looks like some fancy fabricate'n going on there.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayzer View Post
    Francois, do you (or anybody else out there) know if Giant has any plans on a 650b?
    I would figure 2014 models when I assume the big 4 will finally venture into the 650B world.

    The Maistro suspension is excellent and a true 650B Reign would be an awesome bike. Trance as well.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  70. #170
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    Here is a better idea of the seat tube. The idea as I get it is to keep the chain stay short and keep the seat post angle dead on.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-frame.jpg  


  71. #171
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    Generic Cycles ~ The Ultimate 650b

    Here is a photo of the dual yoke detail....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-gcyolk.jpg  


  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonL View Post
    Here is a better idea of the seat tube. The idea as I get it is to keep the chain stay short and keep the seat post angle dead on.
    Man, that thing looks phenomenal.... ready to take a beating. Looks like there's something interesting going on with the chainstay yoke too. Can you tell us about the angles, the custom build process, etc.?

  73. #173
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    Cool bike...wrong thread.

  74. #174
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    The build process was pretty simple for me... maybe not so much for Chris at Generic Cycles since he had to put up with my impatience.
    I was shopping for something different. Found the Generic Cycles site and made a call. The frame is The Ultimate, it is advertised as "The last 29er you'll ever need (or want)".
    I asked Chris about his thoughts of building a 650b frame and he was game. We talked about the riding I do and what I was currently riding as well as the fork I was going to use. I received a fairly standard measurement form from Chris, measured myself up, e-mailed it over. A day later I had a CAD drawing of the frame in hand. I ended up with 69 degree HA and a 72.5 SA, the chainstay length is 415mm. Around 4 months later the frame arrived.

  75. #175
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    I thought it was the wrong thread, but couldn't find where else to post. I am not on here very often, sorry!

  76. #176
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    Meanwhile, I'm getting antsy for the shoot out report. Thinking about those guys riding all those great bikes is driving me nuts.


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  77. #177
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    I got to take a couple Carbine 275's for a spin today at my LBS. Fantastic feel and very smooth suspension. I liked it a little better than the Santa Cruz LTc I tried out a few weeks back. The chain feedback wasn't noticeable on the 275 compared to the LTc.

    I've been riding 26er's for 20+ years and 650b doesn't feel much different unlike the 29er's. You can't go wrong with this bike. Although I'm partial to the Mojo HD too.
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  78. #178
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    [QUOTE=SteveF;9894304]Cool bike...wrong thread.

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  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonL View Post
    I thought it was the wrong thread, but couldn't find where else to post. I am not on here very often, sorry!
    No harm done! There's a 650b picture thread somewhere 'round here or heck, start your own thread. I've seen it done for bikes the deserved it less...

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    The Scott 720 just landed.
    Scott Genius 720 Photos and Preview | Mountain Bike Review

    A user commented that all lower priced Scott 650bs were sold out. True?

    fc
    yup. None are available till 2014

    I tried to get one thru a lbs that is 1.5 hours from scott headquarters.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    yup. None are available till 2014

    I tried to get one thru a lbs that is 1.5 hours from scott headquarters.
    WTF? No Genius, no Scale for sale anywhere on planet earth? Spark still a wet dream? Scott should be cutting edge for the 27.5" wheelsize in 2013, but instead they totally fumbled the ball.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  82. #182
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    Not unusual for Scott, their first year releases are generally a "toe-dip". Anyone remember the first year the Scale 29 came out? Very short supply. Scott takes chances, but hedges their bets too.

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    Any idea when we're going to start seeing results from the shootout??!! What about some interim reports? Pictures? Something?

    I feel like I'm waiting for Christmas without having any idea what the date is.

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    Not unusual for Scott, their first year releases are generally a "toe-dip". Anyone remember the first year the Scale 29 came out? Very short supply. Scott takes chances, but hedges their bets too.
    I wouldn't call what Scott did with the 27.5 size a toe dip. More like hook, line and sinker if you ask me offering all those Genius models. Not backing it up with product availability is bizarre though.

    Any idea when we're going to start seeing results from the shootout??!! What about some interim reports? Pictures? Something?

    I feel like I'm waiting for Christmas without having any idea what the date is.
    I'm sure everyone is getting a bit antsy but hopefully good thing come to those that wait (like a couple extra bikes added into the test). Francois is also doing the light testing again and that's gotta be chewing up some serious time.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  85. #185
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    Foes 27527.5 All Mountain Bike Shootout-imageuploadedbytapatalk1354150119.281781.jpg
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  86. #186
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    Are those Outlaw 650b wheels?
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  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTB Pilot View Post
    Are those Outlaw 650b wheels?

    Indeed they are. We'll start publishing next week. I just have to finish the darn Lights Shootout.

    fc

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Indeed they are. We'll start publishing next week. I just have to finish the darn Lights Shootout.

    fc
    Promise? We're holding you to it, Francois!
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  89. #189
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    Love the Foes

    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Foes 275Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm interested in your impressions of the Foes as it compares to the Tracer 275 as that is the only production 275 bike I've had any time with. I'm still hoping to get that call from Foes to come demo one myself before dropping the cash.

  90. #190
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    Banshee Rune is coming. The other attendee, Rocky Mountain is AWOL at the moment.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Banshee Rune is coming. The other attendee, Rocky Mountain is AWOL at the moment.
    That sucks as it is on my wish list
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  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Banshee Rune is coming. The other attendee, Rocky Mountain is AWOL at the moment.
    Francois, get on the horn with Banshee. New Spitfire frames are arriving in December. More trailbike oriented than the Rune which craves the downs.

    We need that Rocky in there as well. Patience I guess.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    “An adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.” Marco Polo

  94. #194
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    Where is all the results.
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    any idea when we'll start hearing about this again?

  96. #196
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    Friday. The Carbine is here. Only problem is its raining everyday now.
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  97. #197
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    Lights shoot out is done
    IPA will save America

  98. #198
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    Did the Rocky Mountain ever show?

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Lights shoot out is done
    Which I suppose means the bikes are next?

    I'm ready, but will be unhappy camper if Rocky Mountain did not come through with an Altitude. On paper that bike looks damn good, and any of us considering spending that much money who won't be able to test ride first hand would definitley like a mtbr review.

    Waiting for the reports is like waiting for Santa
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  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Lights shoot out is done
    Carbine looks nice, what is the weight? It looks like it is the XT build?

    Also, what is the difference in BB height with the Tracer and the Carbine? The Intense website says 13.3 for the Tracer and 13.7 for the Carbine. I saw someone measured the Tracer at 13.8??

    Thanks for doing this, like someone had to twist your arm.

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