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Thread: 2013 Scott 27.5

  1. #101
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    I see it this way, 650b will take away sales more from 26ers than 29ers, the 650b segment will grow even bigger than the other 2 wheel sizes, due to the fact that 650b is a perfect comprise between the two sizes, it's not geometry and suspension limited like 29ers, leading to a much broader appeal.
    Contrary to popular 29er belief, no matter how big your wheels are, or how good that they may roll over stuff, your still going to pick the smoothes line and alot of times picking the best lines means having the agility of 26 or 650b to accomplish that. All that being said, I think that there is definately a place for 29ers, I just don't believe that they are the "do all,end all" as some manufactures, magazines and riders believe

  2. #102
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    OK, back on topic: Prices and specs in case you have not seen this yet.

    2013 Scott Genius 700 – 650b All Mountain Bike | Mountain Bike Review

  3. #103
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    Do any banks make bicycle loans yet?


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  4. #104
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    [QUOTE=dwt;9507698]Do any banks make bicycle loans yet?


    Ha-ha. I hear ya. Looks like I'm going to continue riding an alloy frame...

  5. #105
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    Dauym ... thats steep. When i get to see the Euro prices i'll probably have a heart attack.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsilva View Post
    Dauym ... thats steep. When i get to see the Euro prices i'll probably have a heart attack.
    Seems like it, but any decent XT equipped alloy Trail bike is gonna run around $4000. I ride a Fuel EX9, and the 2012's are $4000, make a deal, maybe a couple hundred less. Trek's top carbon Fuel is $9300 MSRP. We choose an expensive sport, no doubt.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekfueler View Post
    Seems like it, but any decent XT equipped alloy Trail bike is gonna run around $4000. I ride a Fuel EX9, and the 2012's are $4000, make a deal, maybe a couple hundred less. Trek's top carbon Fuel is $9300 MSRP. We choose an expensive sport, no doubt.
    No, mtn biking has evolved into an expensive sport because it's users demand the latest technology.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    No, mtn biking has evolved into an expensive sport because it's users demand the latest technology.
    I don't know about you guys, but I need the latest tech for one reason: I'm older and slower, and I need every advantage I can get! Now that I think about it though, then I wouldn't have any excuses for getting dropped. Hmm, maybe I should dust off my 1998 7-spd.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I see it this way, 650b will take away sales more from 26ers than 29ers, the 650b segment will grow even bigger than the other 2 wheel sizes, due to the fact that 650b is a perfect comprise between the two sizes, it's not geometry and suspension limited like 29ers, leading to a much broader appeal.
    Contrary to popular 29er belief, no matter how big your wheels are, or how good that they may roll over stuff, your still going to pick the smoothes line and alot of times picking the best lines means having the agility of 26 or 650b to accomplish that. All that being said, I think that there is definately a place for 29ers, I just don't believe that they are the "do all,end all" as some manufactures, magazines and riders believe
    I agree that 650b will affect 26'er sales first and will eventually be the most popular of the 3. But none of the 3 are "be all, do all, or end all". And there are plenty of open questions.

    All sizes have appeal to different riders depending on their skill, experience and size, and the terrain they ride.

    26" requires the most skill to ride in technical terrain.

    The roll of 27.5" and even more so 29" enables non pro and non total expert riders to clean stuff they could not on 26" I resemble this.

    The question right now and for 2013 is whether 29" or 27.5" is better for skilled but not expert or pro riders for trail and AM use.The reviews of the 2 new Genius' are split, some preferring the longer travel 27.5" and others the shorter travel 29" ( which wont fit long travel). We'll see

    Except for Julien Absalon, larger than 26" wheels rule in XC. Except for Nino Schurter the fastest XC wheel is 29" There is plenty of room for 27.5" to get more popular in XC especially for women and shorter males. In XC fit is probably more important than roll; otherwise how do you explain Absalon and Schurter?

    Time will tell whether 27.5" will make inroads in the gravity world. Due to the suspension limits, doubtful 29" will


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    Last edited by dwt; 07-17-2012 at 08:24 PM.
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  10. #110
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    I've been riding/ racing mtbs for years ( since 1982) raced most disiplines, xc, dh, super d,ss and tandem. I prefer 650b, not because I lack handling skills or I suck at riding, but because I believe in the benefits they provide over the other two sizes.
    I currently run a SC Blur xc carbon with 650b and I couldn't be happier with the bike.
    I'm not going to go on saying it's the best for everyone, but it's the best for me and thats all that really counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I prefer 650b, not because I lack handling skills or I suck at riding, but because I believe in the benefits they provide over the other two sizes.
    They have no benefits at all. It's just a gimmick from the bike industry. The difference in size is much too small to notice any real difference between the 2 sizes.

    It's either 26" or 29" if you want to notice actual difference.

    And yes I have ridden all 3 of them. 650B feels the same as a 26er. 29ers feel different from 26ers, understand?

  12. #112
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    Try riding a bit faster than walking speed.

  13. #113
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    I laughed ....

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    They have no benefits at all. It's just a gimmick from the bike industry. The difference in size is much too small to notice any real difference between the 2 sizes.

    It's either 26" or 29" if you want to notice actual difference.

    And yes I have ridden all 3 of them. 650B feels the same as a 26er. 29ers feel different from 26ers, understand?
    You do not like 650b - fine, we get the point, ignore us. Go fight your crusade somewhere else.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    They have no benefits at all. It's just a gimmick from the bike industry. The difference in size is much too small to notice any real difference between the 2 sizes.

    It's either 26" or 29" if you want to notice actual difference.

    And yes I have ridden all 3 of them. 650B feels the same as a 26er. 29ers feel different from 26ers, understand?
    A 3 inch difference is more noticeable than 1.5. No **** Sherlock

    If you have ridden all 3 wheel sizes and can't tell the difference between 26" and 27.5", your bike handling skills are called into question. There is absolutely a roll difference between 26" and 27.5" as well as a handling penalty, just not as pronounced as the difference between 26" and your wagon wheels. The handling and weight penalty of 29" is a price that many riders are unwilling to pay- especially if they have no need of that much roll in order to clean technical terrain.



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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    . I prefer 650b, not because I lack handling skills or I suck at riding, but because I believe in the benefits they provide over the other two sizes..
    I'm not trying to call anybody's skills into question. My background is similar to yours. The benefit of larger diameter wheels is better rolling. The trade off is less nimble than smaller diameter. These are facts

    My point is that when the best all around cyclist on the planet says he never has trouble rolling through any terrain on 26". and so does not need better roll and does not want any weight and a handling penalty of bigger wheels, those of us that do have to man up and admit we are not Brian Lopes.

    The middle size is a perfect compromise between the smallest and the biggest which is why I use it as well


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  17. #117
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    I'm in total agreement with you, I've ridden 26" for all those years and still do on a couple of bikes. Inever did like 29ers, I gave them a fair shot and they did excell on some terrain, but overall for me, they didn't fit into my riding style and the terrain that I mostly ride.
    When I referred to my handling skills, I was answering to other posters who believe it is the lack of skills for the reason to ride a bigger wheel than 26", which isnt true in my case

  18. #118
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    The 650b intrigues me for a heavier trail bike app for taller riders. Once you get into running bigger meats, the overall diameter is getting even larger. I have a couple of 29ers and love them for their intended use, but the idea of a more aggressive bike with 650b and 2.4 or even 2.5 tires (new 2012 Banshee Rune comes to mind) would be awesome. I have a 2011 Rune with 26" wheels, and it almost feels twitchy to me, and at 6-5, the larger wheel size would help bring things into proportion for me.

  19. #119
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    Bike magazine has a brief writeup of the new Scott Genius's on line:

    First Impressions: 2013 Scott Genius 700 and 900

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    Thanks for the links gents. It looks like there are people out there who can tell the difference between the three wheel sizes after all! Those reviews make me want to jump on my bike and ride. I would if I could but the thunderstorms are not good.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Sounds like you're looking for a Spark 27.5. Assuming Scott is planning such a model, you won't see it till 2014.

    AFAIK, the closest to XC among the new bikes for 2013 is the Turner Burner. Trail bike travel @ 140mm, alloy frame at 5.5 lbs within 1/2 lb of the 700 carbon. But HA on the slack side for XC. If you aren't using the bike for actual XC racing, a trail bike is more fun to ride than XC, IME. More travel trumps weight weenie bike weight assuming you are not racing uphill. The descents are so much better
    Speak for yourself. I live in the Colorado Mountains and if you want to enjoy riding here you need to enjoy going up. I have tried a lot of trail bikes and they are all sluggish going up and when it gets steep the front end is wandering all over the place. You can't get over the bars etc, etc. Sure they outperform an XC oriented geometry on descents but your assertion that travel trumps weight is not true for a whole lot of riders. I just bought a Giant Anthem X 29 which is an XC oriented ride and it descends superbly. Of course you can't just mash over everything in sight... you still need to pick a line and have some handling skills.

  23. #123
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    A Scott with out DT Swiss parts? Wow. And does the 720 have to come with a white fork? It seems to be the only one pictured in the mtbr review.........
    2012 Scott Scale 29 Expert

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughOkane View Post
    Speak for yourself. I live in the Colorado Mountains and if you want to enjoy riding here you need to enjoy going up. I have tried a lot of trail bikes and they are all sluggish going up and when it gets steep the front end is wandering all over the place. You can't get over the bars etc, etc. Sure they outperform an XC oriented geometry on descents but your assertion that travel trumps weight is not true for a whole lot of riders. I just bought a Giant Anthem X 29 which is an XC oriented ride and it descends superbly. Of course you can't just mash over everything in sight... you still need to pick a line and have some handling skills.
    I am speaking for myself. I'm riding a Jamis 650b 2, 5" travel. I bought it because as yet there are no race oriented 4" 650b bikes. Till this bike I've always owned lightweight XC bikes

    What I mean to say about climbing is that it is not so hard as I thought to pedal a 29 lb bike uphill as compared to a bike 5 or 6 lbs lighter- so long as I'm not racing. The HTA on the Jamis is far from slack at 69 deg.

    What I also found is that the extra inch of travel is a blast descending and on techical sections. And no, you dont mash through everything on this bike any more than on a 4" 29'er.

    So I think I'm done with XC bikes no matter what the wheel size. Trail or even AM bikes for me from here on.


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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I am speaking for myself. I'm riding a Jamis 650b 2, 5" travel. I bought it because as yet there are no race oriented 4" 650b bikes. Till this bike I've always owned lightweight XC bikes

    What I mean to say about climbing is that it is not so hard as I thought to pedal a 29 lb bike uphill as compared to a bike 5 or 6 lbs lighter- so long as I'm not racing. The HTA on the Jamis is far from slack at 69 deg.

    What I also found is that the extra inch of travel is a blast descending and on techical sections. And no, you dont mash through everything on this bike any more than on a 4" 29'er.

    So I think I'm done with XC bikes no matter what the wheel size. Trail or even AM bikes for me from here on.


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    Thanks for the clarity. I agree that some of the heavier bikes aren't too bad to climb with. But I can still feel the weight and seek a more happy medium between weight and climbing performance. I still prefer XC oriented bikes. If I hadn't just bought a 29er I would be seriously looking into a 650b and would probably have to wait another year to get an XC version. My 29er weighs 27.5lbs. I am going to get some lighter wheels at some point because I intend to do some endurance races with it. Nothing wrong with current wheels other than too heavy. A relevant point about longer travel and slacker geometry is that bikes keep getting faster to descend with even for relative inexperienced riders. Locally I am starting to see some conflict between uphill riders and downhill riders. Too many people descending out of control. This didn't happen so much with the older style bikes. Bigger wheels are a significant part of the go bigger and faster crowd.
    Last edited by hughOkane; 07-19-2012 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Add a poin of clarity to the discussion.

  26. #126
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    Nothing wrong with going bigger and faster, my only beef with them is that most riders ( at least the one i have to deal with ) rely on the big travel/big wheels to mash thru things but when the stuff gets too technical for the wheels/travel to compensate, they choke and crash or even worse, cause others to crash.

    I've been seeing this happening this way too often these days.

  27. #127
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    Outside mag

    Their initial ride impressions HERE
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsilva View Post
    Nothing wrong with going bigger and faster, my only beef with them is that most riders ( at least the one i have to deal with ) rely on the big travel/big wheels to mash thru things but when the stuff gets too technical for the wheels/travel to compensate, they choke and crash or even worse, cause others to crash.

    I've been seeing this happening this way too often these days.
    Agreed. There's no substitute for learning and earning skills on smaller wheels and a HT before moving up to more suspension and bigger wheels. If you can do it with skill in tough technical terrain on a 26'er HT, chances are you can do it better on a 5" 26'er. That way you can feel and appreciate the travel rather that learning to ride with it, where it can turn into a crutch.

    As far as wheel size, as a rider with 20 yrs of experience, I admit I can clean stuff on my 5" 650b that I could not, or was shaky on riding a 26" HT or even a 4" 26'er. But again, having learned on a 26'er, I can feel and use the wheel size difference and suspension to my advantage.

    So it is indeed a bit sketchy to think that many riders are learning on bigger wheels and/or longer suspension without "earning" skills first


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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel View Post
    Their initial ride impressions HERE
    I wonder what kind of trails they put the bikes through when they prize the lesser weight of the 32mm fox on the 900 over the 34mm fox on the 700 but have nothing to say about the stiffness of the front/rear ends of those bikes.

  30. #130
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    The same goes from riding a hardtail.

  31. #131
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    Here's a comparison of the suspension curves with the previous generation Genius. Looks like you won't be able to use aftermarket shocks without degrading pedalling efficiency.
    Attached Images Attached Images     

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