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Thread: 2013 Jamis 650B

  1. #1
    mountainfreak
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    2013 Jamis 650B

    Hello All....

    Our first official demo events will be Interbike Outdoor Demo Sept. 17-18th and Outerbike in Moab UT Oct. 3rd-7th. Hope to see you there!

    The 2013 Dragon 650 and Nemesis 650 are already in stock so sales reps have samples on hand for regional demo's and dealers have them at the shops!

    See you out on the trails!

    Some short spec...

    Dakar XCT 650 Pro
    130mm travel, 12x142 rear
    Rock Shox Revelation 650B RCT3 fork
    Rock Shox Monarch RT3 shock
    American Classic tubeless
    SRAM XO 2x10 (38/24) w/ Type 2 RD
    SRAM XO brakes
    Schwalbe Racing Ralph's
    Crank Brothers cockpit
    MSRP $4800. USD

    Dakar XCT 650 Comp
    130mm travel, 12x142 rear
    Rock Shox Revelation 650B RL fork
    Rock Shox Monarch R shock
    Alex XD Lite rims/Formula sealed hubs
    Shimano SLX 3x10
    Shimano M445 brakes
    Schwalbe Racing Ralph's
    Crank Brothers cockpit
    MSRP $2800. USD

    Dragon 650
    Reynolds 853
    White Brothers Loop TCR 650B 120mm travel
    American Classic tubeless
    Shimano SLX 3x10
    Avid Elixir 5
    Schwalbe Racing Ralph's
    Crank Brothers cockpit
    MSRP $2900. USD

    Nemesis 650
    Kinesis 7005 alloy
    XFusion Velvet RL 650B 100mm travel
    Alex XD Lite rims/Formula sealed hubs
    SRAM X9/X7 2x10 (39/26)
    Avid Elixir 5
    Schwalbe Racing Ralph's
    Ritchey cockpit
    MSRP $1900. USD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013 Jamis 650B-13_dakarxct650pro.jpg  

    2013 Jamis 650B-13_dakarxct650comp.jpg  

    2013 Jamis 650B-13_dragon650.jpg  

    2013 Jamis 650B-13_nemesis.jpg  


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    I so want to go to Outerbike.

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    You've got to sponsor a strong pro on the Dakar Pro at the Whole Enchilada Enduro Sept 28. I bet a podium would there would certainly help you at Outerbike the following week.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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    I like the new color for the nemesis, you had a 15% ($250) increase in price on this bike from last year, supply must be in short supply.
    Custom Built Caletti Steel Road Bike
    2012 Jamis Nemesis 650b

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    Kinda surprised (and disappointed) they didn't go to 140mm travel on the Dakar XCT bikes. I also prefer the curved top tube of the 2012/2011 models over the straight tube of the new bike. 12 x 142 is good. Wonder if the HA is the same 69 degrees? I'd prefer to see that at 68 also.

    Why does the Dragon not get a replaceable hanger? Doesn't make sense to me (maybe because I live in new England with so many rocks and everything gets hit)
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    mountainfreak
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    skidad... The decision to go to the straight and larger top tube and also larger down tube on the 2013 model was to increase both lateral and torsional stiffness of the front triangle. If stand over is a concern, it's only changed very slightly over the 2012 design and actually now has better stand over clearance on the 19" and 21" than before.

    The chain stay size has also been increased 25% in addition to the 142mm drop outs for matching rear end stiffness.

    Noted on the replaceable hanger for the Dragons. Traditionally with our steel frames it has been easy to bend back a tweaked hanger without any issue since you don't get the "snap" like alloy. But something to take into consideration for the future.

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Kinda surprised (and disappointed) they didn't go to 140mm travel on the Dakar XCT bikes. I also prefer the curved top tube of the 2012/2011 models over the straight tube of the new bike. 12 x 142 is good. Wonder if the HA is the same 69 degrees? I'd prefer to see that at 68 also.

    Why does the Dragon not get a replaceable hanger? Doesn't make sense to me (maybe because I live in new England with so many rocks and everything gets hit)
    funny, i prefer the new TT design over last year's. I wasnt a fan of that curved TT at all...just aesthetically not pleasing to the eye IMHO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal@Jamis View Post
    skidad... The decision to go to the straight and larger top tube and also larger down tube on the 2013 model was to increase both lateral and torsional stiffness of the front triangle. If stand over is a concern, it's only changed very slightly over the 2012 design and actually now has better stand over clearance on the 19" and 21" than before.

    The chain stay size has also been increased 25% in addition to the 142mm drop outs for matching rear end stiffness.

    Noted on the replaceable hanger for the Dragons. Traditionally with our steel frames it has been easy to bend back a tweaked hanger without any issue since you don't get the "snap" like alloy. But something to take into consideration for the future.

    Thanks!
    Thanks for the info on the structural changes which sound good. The straight top tube is a personal thing. I like it on the Dragon and Nemesis but to me it looks to "old school" on a 2013 full suspension bike. Just a little bend or swoop I think would look better.

    BTW...is the new 2013 rear triangle compatible with the 2011/2012 frames?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Bikes look nice, have to agree, like the straight TT much more than the old curved one. Curious if you guys have any front on/45 degree shots showing fork clearance over those Racing Ralphs? In my experience with RS (with both 26" and 29" forks) they have minimal clearance compared to Fox, Marz and Manitou, which really sucks if you have to deal with mud on a regular basis.
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    No carbon frames? At close to 28 lbs. the Dakar XCT Pro is a little portly compared to its 130mm competition.
    2013 Santa Cruz TRc 650b
    2015 Lynskey Cooper CX
    2010 Soma Groove
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    Nice bikes. I like the straight lines of the front triangle a lot.

  12. #12
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    Glad to see the curved tubes go. Id' like to see the Dakota D650b Team and the Dakar XCR 650b Pro, those would interest me.

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    Wait, what happened to the AMT? AM is the sweet spot for 650B.....

    (My 2010 XAM 2 was built like it was designed for 650B!)

  14. #14
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    Another nod of approval here for the straight tubes. Seems like everyone went apeshit for "the Nomad look" the last few years. I even recall reading a few years ago, some non-Jamis market hyperbole about how the curved tubes increase stiffness, lol. The fastest (er, lightest) way to get there is with straight lines me thinks.

    At any rate, I'd like a Nemesis please & thank you.
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    Is that purple on the Dragon? Yech
    The Shamrock green is so much nicer.
    And $2900 for a steel hardtail??? Come on!
    I agree about the Nemesis though; does look better than before.
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

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    Cool bikes, yeah $2900 is a bit pricey for a HT, though its 853 and is outfitted with possibly
    the best 650b fork in its class (I doubt White Bros gave Jamis much of a manufacture discount
    for them as WB only has 3 guys making forks there in Grand Junction & they take turns answering phones and emails )

    Super props to Jamis. Saving up for a Dragon frame to putt around town with.

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    Nother vote back to the preference of curved tubes - loved how the 2011-12 yr Jamis models looked. Not that I would kick these off the cliff or anything. Also seems like growing msrp is another trend with new bikes these days... perhaps the dropping value of the dollar? I guess we'll see what they really sell for soon enough.

    Still lovin' my 2010 Sixfifty B2 frames.
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    Sad that the raciest bike of the bunch (Nemesis) gets stuck with boat anchor parts again. Two models would be nice, one with X9/XO, Stan's rims and lighter bars, stem, post and saddle, and then a entry version with X5/X7 etc. to meet a price point.

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    Disappointed that there are no sliding drops or EBB for the Dragon. That thing screams single speed to me. Still want one though

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    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    You've got to sponsor a strong pro on the Dakar Pro at the Whole Enchilada Enduro Sept 28. I bet a podium would there would certainly help you at Outerbike the following week.
    I note you have a sponsored XC Team. Some of those boys should be able to handle Enduro on a Dakar Pro. Do it!
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  21. #21
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    Sal, any idea what the weight is on a Dragon 650 frame size medium? I really like the geometry. It's very similar to what I built at UBI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    No carbon frames? At close to 28 lbs. the Dakar XCT Pro is a little portly compared to its 130mm competition.
    Especially when they already have this beauty. All that's different from this 26" carbon Pro XCT frame to 650B would be a redesigned rear triangle. Heck, they could have used the new improved aluminum triangle and called it good. Problem is that Jamis MSRP"s are just to high IMO and scare potential buyers away. Oh yeah, that slightly curved top tube looks much better to me



    Or how about doing this 4" travel XC full 650B compliant frame in carbon (actually designed with 650B in mind although it came through in 26" guise last year) How many really new about this frame that wanted a 4" travel bike? Perhaps to heavy so make it carbon.

    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    mountainfreak
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    golden boy... the 17" Dragon 650 frame weight is 4.5lbs

    Everyone else.... thanks for all comments. Keep them coming, we love to hear it!

    fyi... we have many 650B designs still in development that I think will satisfy everyone's requests in the future!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I note you have a sponsored XC Team. Some of those boys should be able to handle Enduro on a Dakar Pro. Do it!
    Jamis riders Rotem Ishay and Adam Snyder were both at the Kennebec Pass Enduro. I would guess they will be at the Enchilada as well.
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

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    More than one person has called me up and said "build me a Jamis Dragon" over the course of the last year.

    Those things rule!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post

    BTW...is the new 2013 rear triangle compatible with the 2011/2012 frames?
    Yes, the chain stay will work on the 2011/12 frames
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    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69erEverything View Post
    Jamis riders Rotem Ishay and Adam Snyder were both at the Kennebec Pass Enduro. I would guess they will be at the Enchilada as well.
    I think as of right now - prototypes not counted - the Dakar Pro is THE bike for this race and I wish your boys luck


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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I think as of right now - prototypes not counted - the Dakar Pro is THE bike for this race and I wish your boys luck
    We'll see. I beat them both on a 69er at the last race. I got beat by the guys on the 26ers.

    (Again I'm shopping for a 650b in the near future and I agree it is great for enduro)
    99% of the problems and questions posted here would be answered if people actually walked into a bicycle shop and asked

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69erEverything View Post
    . I got beat by the guys on the 26ers.

    (Again I'm shopping for a 650b in the near future and I agree it is great for enduro)
    It makes intuitive sense that the tweener wheel would be great for Enduro, but it's the rider not the bike. Which is one reason the 26'ers beat you. Then again, I suspect 90% of bikes entered were 26". Not too many trail and AM 29'rs, 650b or 69'rs around - yet


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    Quote Originally Posted by SuspectDevice View Post
    More than one person has called me up and said "build me a Jamis Dragon" over the course of the last year.

    Those things rule!
    Yes indeed they do! First complete I've bought in nine years and I love it! In that span of time I've built up no less than nine different mountain bikes - ten, if you count the Surly CrossCheck I've taken out on the trail a handful of times. From jump bikes to 69ers, from short-travel XC rides to freeride fullys, they've all been a blast...but I've still thrown them all over for my Dragon 650b. With absolutely no regrets. It's all the mountain bike I can see myself ever needing.
    All mountain bikes are all-mountain bikes.

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    Review of 2012 650b Pro:

    2012 Jamis Dakar SixFifty B Pro Long-Term Review: Part 1
    2012 Jamis Dakar SixFifty B Pro Long-Term Review: Part 1 | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Review of 2012 650b Pro:

    2012 Jamis Dakar SixFifty B Pro Long-Term Review: Part 1
    2012 Jamis Dakar SixFifty B Pro Long-Term Review: Part 1 | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog
    Not a bad review and look forward to part 2.


    He needs to try the bike with wider bars and a shorter stem to take the XC edge off a bit. He also failed to mention the Loop fork has 2 more internal travel adjustments of 140 and 150mm which is a pretty nice option to have IMO and would slacken up the front end nicely for a bit more AM comfort.

    I left that info in the comments section for people to see.

    And....he mentioned Jamis will have a new model at Interbike yet unmentioned. Hmmmm??
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  33. #33
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    . Problem is that Jamis MSRP"s are just to high IMO and scare potential buyers away.
    Norco Sight Killer B1 same pricepoint

    http://m.norco.com/#/bikes/mountain/...ght-killer-b1/


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    Last edited by dwt; 09-13-2012 at 09:15 PM.
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    I will be at OuterBike (but for one day only) and look forward to riding some 650b bikes.

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    Good looking bikes. Will the Nemesis be offered as a frameset?

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    Review 2012 Dakar 650B Pro part 2

    2012 Jamis Dakar SixFifty B Pro Long-Term Review: Part 2 | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog

    Nice fair review and a couple issues to watch for. Overall versatility seems to be it's forte.


    ...and again as reported in his part 1 review Jamis is supposed to release a new bike at Interbike in a few days. Could be the 4" travel XC race bike some guys have been wishing for or maybe a 150-160mm B bike....or maybe nothing at all?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Dragon 650B with sliders... perfection
    I guarantee I will never, ever be accused of bringing sexy back...

  38. #38
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    Did they shorten up the rear center for 2013 or are we still looking at 17.7" chainstays on the full suspension models?
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

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    I just purchased the 2012 frame set and I am building it up. All that is left is my wheels from Industry 9

    Can't wait to ride this bike !!!!

    here is the link to the thread

    http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/jamis-da...ld-813806.html

    Sal - thank you for offering a complete frame set for the 650B bikes you made my day when I say that and I ordered the very next morning.

    ps I like the sloped top tube design reminds me of my Moots Zirkel

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    Love these bikes, quick question...

    Hi Sal and other riders,

    This is my first post and I have a question on these models compared to my riding style before I make the jump into one of these models. I started riding steady 2 yrs ago so I bought a trek 4300 (hardtail entry level) to make sure I was going to enjoy biking. Now I'm ready to upgrade. I know I want a 650b from jamis. I'm between the dragon, nemesis or dakar comp. I live in Pennsylvania and like to ride rather aggressive high intensity low volume (2hrs or less) rides that involve cross country, climbs, some rocks, downhill,,,,a bit of everything and I am stuck wondering if I should go full suspension or hardtail and if a hardtail which one. Was wondering if you guys could comment before I make this investment as I want to make the best choice. Not sure if weight is a concern for frame or suspension but I'm 6 ft tall and weigh 220. I want the 650 bc when I test rode a 650 next to a 29 , I like the quick response and handling of the 650 just don't know how they handle on the mtn

    Thanks
    Rich

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    I convinced myself I "needed" the Dragon last year and after ordering it was concerned I would have buyers remorse after dropping almost 3k on an arguably portly hardtail I didn't really need while my full suspension was long in the tooth and was the bike I really needed to upgrade/replace.

    The grin from my first ride hasn't left my face almost 9 months later. The only buyers remorse would have been if they had sliding dropouts on this years model. They didn't, and I like the shamrock green more than the purple so I'm more than happy to have been an early adopter.

    Rich: If you are riding the 4300 capably on your trails you'll love the Dragon. Mine has seen it's share of rocks and chunk out here in Arizona - it's my every day, every trail bike. The full suspension comes out once in a blue moon....if that. If you are debating between the Nemesis and Dragon keep in mind the difference in frame material and the head angles. The Dragon is much more an "all mountain" bike than the Nemesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn_rh View Post
    Hi Sal and other riders,

    This is my first post and I have a question on these models compared to my riding style before I make the jump into one of these models. I started riding steady 2 yrs ago so I bought a trek 4300 (hardtail entry level) to make sure I was going to enjoy biking. Now I'm ready to upgrade. I know I want a 650b from jamis. I'm between the dragon, nemesis or dakar comp. I live in Pennsylvania and like to ride rather aggressive high intensity low volume (2hrs or less) rides that involve cross country, climbs, some rocks, downhill,,,,a bit of everything and I am stuck wondering if I should go full suspension or hardtail and if a hardtail which one. Was wondering if you guys could comment before I make this investment as I want to make the best choice. Not sure if weight is a concern for frame or suspension but I'm 6 ft tall and weigh 220. I want the 650 bc when I test rode a 650 next to a 29 , I like the quick response and handling of the 650 just don't know how they handle on the mtn

    Thanks
    Rich
    I absolutely love hardtails and think that overall they are more fun than full suspension. But, if you can only have one bike, in my opinion it should be a FS. A FS bike can handle a much greater variety of trails because you can just adjust the rear suspension to be stiff for more XC oriented trails, or more plush for rougher trails. A hardtail really limits the type of terrain you can ride on, unless you have some great bike skills.
    2013 Santa Cruz TRc 650b
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  43. #43
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    Dragon as a putt around town bike is a waste. I spent some time on this at Outdoor Demo and it is a very well balanced and excellent handling bike. Of course, not everyone is after a steel hardtail, but if that is in your general line of thinking, then this is an excellent bike. I've ridden steel hardtails for years - nice job Jamis gang on this one.

    Scott

    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    Cool bikes, yeah $2900 is a bit pricey for a HT, though its 853 and is outfitted with possibly
    the best 650b fork in its class (I doubt White Bros gave Jamis much of a manufacture discount
    for them as WB only has 3 guys making forks there in Grand Junction & they take turns answering phones and emails )

    Super props to Jamis. Saving up for a Dragon frame to putt around town with.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    ...A hardtail really limits the type of terrain you can ride on, unless you have some great bike skills.
    Excuse me, let me correct that for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    ...The rider really limits the type of terrain you can ride on, unless you have some great bike skills.
    There you go

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    Quote Originally Posted by FNFAL View Post
    Excuse me, let me correct that for you.

    The rider really limits the type of terrain you can ride on, unless you have some great bike skills.

    There you go
    So true. I regularly ride with some guys who use hard tails in just the ugliest rock and root infested terrain and I'm astounded how good they are, how fast they can ride and the crap they can climb. Puts me to shame on my 140mm full squish bike

    ....so what if I'm 10-20 years older than most of them, it's only my 4th year riding to their mega years and they're all on 29'r hartails
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  46. #46
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    Okay so I have had 2 months to ride my 650 Dakar Pro and the bike is really nice. It does extremely well in the tight technical single track and on the small technical downhill's that we have here in Chicago it does extremely well. I can't wait to bring the bike to Colorado next year and see how it does.

    So far my only complaint is the Fusion fork it doesn't want to hold air and it leaks oil. I will most likely replace the fork with the Rock Shock version.

  47. #47
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    I thought the 650 Dakar Pro came with the Rock Shox Revelation?

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    Sal -

    3 things:

    1. Does the 2012 Nemesis have a 135mm rear or a 142mm ?
    2. Does the 2012 Nemesis have 9mm QR on the front fork or a 15mm through ?
    3. I agree with the earlier post - you should offer 2 price points on the Nemesis
    I'm about to buy a close-out 2012 model but will be dumping most of the parts.

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    1. 2012 and 2013 are 135mm
    2. 2012 and 2013 are 9mm QR
    "Never shall innocent blood be shed. Yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of god."

  50. #50
    mtbr member
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    May 2005
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    2,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Shagen7 View Post
    I thought the 650 Dakar Pro came with the Rock Shox Revelation?
    Actually the 2011/2012 650 B2/Pro models came with White Bros Loop fork. The 2012 Comp came with the X-Fusion Velvet while the 2011 B1 came with a lower level Loop fork.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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