I was thinking the 2.1 or even 2.25 Rocket Ron could be slightly larger than the 2.1 neo but smaller than the 2.25 Racing Ralph (searching for the magical as big as possible tire that fits on my bike), but now I am thinking the 2.25 NN may be a better option. Good tread and fast rolling plus not overly heavy.
I have ordered a cheap set of 650B wheels just for winter tire fit testing. Once the snow flies I won't be riding as much up here in sub zero snowy weather so my efforts will switch to testing fit, modding and tweaking, although...there is an indoor bicycle park not far from me where I could do some test riding later once I get things underway.
The cheap rims/wheels I bought are 23.6 mm wide with 19 mm internal width, so unfortunately narrower than the 26-28 mm wide rim I intend to eventually use next year. I know we touched on this once before, but does it make sense to use this rim/wheel for comparison and testing tire fit? It shouldn't make that much difference, right? I hope to build a set of wheels using TL-28's for next year once I determine what tires fit and/or mod my bike. I guess in order for me to compare it with the 2.1 Neo and 2.25 Racing Ralph I should buy one myself, that, and a 2.25 Ra Ra. I can potentially use the NN as a hopeful tire that fits, and the Ra Ra as a tire to mod my bike to fit, since it's too big as is.
Last edited by morkys; 11-30-2012 at 07:37 AM.
Crests have a specifically designed rim profile to distort the tire.
Originally Posted by morkys
As far as cush added to rollover ,the best tall 26" tire is better than the worst small volume 650B tires. I'm still sticking with a 26" 2.4 xking or mk2 rear even on frames that I can fit up to a neo 2.3. Rides smoother and faster. Only thing faster in 650B is a Ra Ra and it doesn't have as much cush. When I have a frame where I can fit a large volume 650B tire on the rear, that's when I'll change over.
Interesting take gvs
I had small 650 tire on rr of my converted KHS fs and thought the same enuff to put my WTB LT2.55 Weirwolf back on. It's apart now but may look into putting back together as a B26r now that I have 140 fork to run on it.
Originally Posted by gvs_nz
Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....
I can recommend the racesport Conti 2.4's as a tall narrow fast option. xking for pure speed, MK2 if you need more traction.
I will compare the bigger 650B tires to the bigger 26" tires and see what I come up with. The "biggest" 26" tire isn't necessarily the best solution as a large 26" tires can have too much squirm and be heavier than a 650B tire that isn't the absolute biggest.
I think you shouldn't trade down a tire size permanently in order to make a larger 650B wheel work because you are not getting enough benefit. I wouldn't trade a good 2.2-2.4 x 26" tire for the "worst small volume" 650B tire. No use going from the big 2.1 x 26 tire that I have now, or the potential of running a 2.35 x 26" tire down to a 2.0-2.1 x 650B tire. I'd prefer to use a 2.2 to 2.35 tire in whatever wheel size I use. If a 2.25 x 650B tire rides over stuff better than a 2.4 x 26" tire than that may work. On the other hand, if a 2.35 x 26" tire is best, or perhaps a bigger 2.4 x 26, then that may be what I end up with. I am re-starting my exploration over again by making a list of all 650B tires and all the larger 26" tires. I have considered 26" x 2.4 MK II and 2.35 to 2.4 Nobby Nic or Racing Ralph (but Ra Ra isn't made in something that big). Once I list all the 26" and 650B tires I will start see what fits my fork and then see what I can fit out back as is, or with mods.
I think ultimately, if somebody does like a large 2.4 x 26" tire, then it's highly likely you will like a large 2.25 to 2.35 x 650B tire if it fits your conversion, or, a 2.4 or larger 650B tire on an actual 650B bike.
In the end, I may end up with just using larger 26" tires on lighter 26" wheels, or a 650B up front, or 650B front and back. Who knows. One day I will want an actual 650B bike that can accept larger tire sizes.
Last edited by morkys; 12-01-2012 at 10:22 AM.
I can save you a lot of time and money as I've got a garage full of tires. I've tried everything you have noted just depends on what you expect to get out of 650B.They are a good addition to the front of an older geometry 26" bike to add 29er like stabilty and extra cornering traction. The extra 1/2 degree it slacks the bike out is usually also a bonus.
If your currently running 2.1 26" tires then I'd suggest nice lightweight high volume 26" tires at low pressure all round as a starting point and then add a 650B front if you need more stabilty and traction.
My current fav lightweight 26" trail tires are RoRo 2.4 front and xking 2.4 rear.
PS the racesport xking 2.4 is faster , taller and narrower than the Ra Ra 2.4 .The racesport mk2 2.4 is is faster , similar height and narrower than 2.4 no ni.
Last edited by gvs_nz; 12-01-2012 at 10:23 AM.
While I agree with the general notion that going 650b up front has the biggest payoff, I've also noticed an improvement in smoothness and rolling efficiency, as well as markedly better technical ledgy climbing performance with 650b x 2.1-2.3 in the rear compared to larger cross section 26" tires.
I am stoked to try some of the newer 26 x 2.4 Conti's, however, on the back of my old Mojo hardtail... tall and narrow is the ticket there, and your comments about the Xking and Mk, GVS, confirm my suspicion that those would be good on that bike.
Right now I have a 2.1 x 26" nev rear (big compared to 2.1 smoke/dart 2nd gen and Velociraptors) and a 2.1 Velociraptor front.
Here are the 26" tires I was looking into:
Continental Mountian King II 2.4 Protection
Continental X-King 2.4 Protection
Rocket Ron 2.25 to 2.35
Racing Ralph 2.25 (there is no other 26" size anymore)
Nobby Nic 26 x 2.25, 2.35 or 2.4
Hans Dampf seems too heavy and un-necessary for my riding
or possibly (but I think too heavy)
Bontrager XR4 2.35 or;
26" x 2.3; psi 35-65; approx. weight 645g
For 650B I was looking into similar Schwalbe tires as above, 2.3 Neomoto or WTB 2.2 Wolverine.
Here is a fuzzy ghotto photo of my Brodie Mettle with 2.25 Racing Ralphs. They rub in the rear, so I would need to mod my bike to make them, or a similar or larger tire fit. Since the seat-stay of my bike is only $125 with sealed bearings, I could pick one up and find somebody to do a minor mod to it to give more room, or, find somebody to make a custom steel seat-stay to replace the one I have now. My bike cost me over $3000 with fork and shock upgrades and a new 650B FS or 29'er FS is over $3K...so making 650B work on this bike could be a less expensive project if done properly.
Last edited by morkys; 12-01-2012 at 01:39 PM.
There's no point in going back to 2.25's in 26" give it 2.4" . There's plenty of fast ones out there like the ones's I've suggested. Why go to protection in the Conti's. You've got thinwall Ra Ra on there now so you obviously don't need them. They are smaller slower and harsher.if you want to go that heavy you can buy the cheap folding conti's but they are heavy aren't as fast or as smooth.
If you want a cheap very big volume and comfy 26" tire look at 2010/2011 michelin wild gripper 2.25. They have 2.4" volume and very very smooth at low pressures.Too high a pressure and they bounce so you have to get the sweet spot just above squirm. Geax tires are also pretty smooth but with a smaller volume.
You may be able to tweak your suspension with a larger air can and softer tune. Those older 100mm bikes ramped up a lot at the end of there limited travel.The RT3 squeezes out more travel than the fox shocks if you can't get a larger air sleeve for the fox.You can also run the RT3 with more sag than the equivalent tune fox.
At some stage your going to have to cut your losses .It's a nice bike but 100mm is 100mm and "Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" comes to mind. Should be plenty of longer travel 26" bikes going cheap if all you want is a little more comfort.I've got all 3 wheel sizes and travel is the most important factor in seated comfort over rough terrain. Rollover has greater effect at speed.29ers make sharp edge hits at speed disappear but pedalling over a tree root on a 29er hard tail is not much different to that on a 26".Tires, frame material and seatposts make more difference.Pedalling through g outs is exactly the same on any wheel size.That's where travel matters. My Soma B side takes all 3 wheel sizes and I have Ra Ra in all 3 sizes so it's easy to make a comparison.
Second hand 29ers should become cheaper with pressure from 650B. Giant do some good stuff new at lower price range than what your quoting.
All i can suggest in 650B if your Ra Ra's rub is a Quasimoto , crossmark 2.1 or RO Ro 2.1 or fire xc . The quasi would be my pick. The others will be too small a volume. The other option is trimming the treads on your Ra Ra?
Last edited by gvs_nz; 12-01-2012 at 10:21 PM.
Correction. I should clarify, the Racing Ralph picture don't roll. They fit on the bike like that, but they won't move. I took a bunch of bicycles to Cycle Solutions in the Beach area of Toronto and they let me try on some 650B wheels on my bikes and frames and an old fork. The wheels pictured aren't mine.
Like the picture showed earlier in this thread, the 2.1 Neomoto is the smallest tire I'd be willing to try on this bike. No need to use the quasimoto, as I believe it's smaller than the 2.1. I bought two 2.1 Neomoto and one 2.0 Quasi for contingency. Once I fit the 2.1 Nemoto on my bike, I was glad it fit, but was surprised it wasn't much bigger than my 26 x 2.1 Nevegal (which I don't like much anyways).
I don't ride trails that need particularly long travel, I am just seeing how big I can go wheel and tire wise to get better roll-over and traction. A new wheelset would be lighter than the stock 26" wheels I have, but if 650B doesn't work, I'm not going to invest in a lighter 26" set of wheels. I'd rather save for a 650B bike like the KHS 3500. I am not riding now (its rainy and cold and snow is coming soon up here)...so if anything, over winter, I'll just be fiddling with a cheap 650B wheel set and a few of the tires I think I'd like to run in 650B, and trying to see if it's possible to have somebody either mod my seat stay or have a replacement replicated. I've compared my bikes geometry, including bb height and chainstay length with the KHS 3500 which is a 120 mm FS 650B bike. If I made my effective chainstay length a bit longer, like 1/2" or so, to fit larger 650B tires, the chainstay would still be the same or shorter than the KHS 3500, and my BB height would not be higher either. So if the production KHS 3500 FS 650B bike works with those specs, there's a good chance mine will too. Also, my bike has a steep head angle to begin with, which I like. If it slackens the trail too much, a headset can bring it back in line. If the bike rides crappy, take of the modded part and chalk it up to experiment.
I have 26 x 2,4 Racing Ralphs on my old singlespeed Kona at the moment. It's a pity they don't make it anymore. The diameter of the wheel is about 26 3/4". I would be interested if somebody has measured the true width of the 27,5 x 2,25 Racing Ralph on a Pacenti TL28 rim to figure if it would fit.
If the Brodie is close to what you want then lengthening the chainstays or custom dropouts is a good idea. Adding 1/2" will also increase your rear wheel travel. You may even get 120mm?.I can do the same to both my meta's by maching up some custom dropouts as they are replaceable. I'd have to test a large volume 650B tire in one of my other bikes first to see if it's worthwhile. Increased frame flex on the Meta's is the downside with the larger wheels. Something you should figure on as well with an older bike and fork..
Originally Posted by morkys
Beware , a small volume 650b wheel/ tire does affect trail and handling more than a similar weight large volume 2.4" 26" tire or even slackening the head angle by at least 1 degree.For my older steeds that's a definate plus. Doesn't sound like that's what you want though.
If your running 17mm rims you can still run 2.4" 26" tires.In fact Geax and michelin tires are comfy because the casing is more flexible and prone to squirm. Geax aren't big volume tires. No need to upgrade wheels. Most tires you can stabilise with only 1 or 2 psi. Frame flex has much more affect on handling than a bit of tire squirm. I usually find tire squirm pressure is very close to the pressure I can impact my rims on tree roots.So a couple of psi above that is fine. I can run tubes at the same low pressure with the big tires so that's not a problem either.
It's worth exploring if I can modify the seat-stay and/or chain-stay because they are separate parts each worth only $100 each so if the modification goes awry, I won't have destroyed my bicycle in the process. The seat-stay is $125 with bearings and $150 with bearings and drlr hanger. I am pretty sure I could get away with only modifying or replacing the seat-stay part in order to achieve what I need.
Originally Posted by gvs_nz
Whatever 26" tire or 650B wheel and tire you put on your 26" bikes front end, it's the increase in height that increases trail. My bike already has a rather steep 70 deg head angle which I like. If the increased trail makes the handling too slow for my liking, an angle adjustable headset, and/or rear shock bushings should allow tweaking to suit. It's true that extending the axle location further back 1/2" may increase travel, but I doubt it'll be much, and honestly I don't want or need a whole lot. I dount I'd put a longer travel fork on this bike anyways, since in combination with 650B wheels, the increase in bb height could start to creep up from the slight to the too much.
Last edited by morkys; 12-02-2012 at 03:45 PM.
Larger wheels also increase the trail and they displace the rotating mass to increase the dynamic stabilty of the wheel quite a bit. Believe me a 650B front wheel gives far more stabilty and sluggish handling than just slackening your head angle 1/2 degree. In fact I can hardly notice the difference when riding 650B front and rear as compared to front only. Don't believe the bike mag bolony about 29er rollover with 26" handling. Quite the opposite actually. The major benefit is 29er stability with 26" acceleration, not 29er rollover. you will however notice less change on your steep head angle. The slacker the bike the more the change in stability is accentuated.
Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....
If you want "cush"
look no further then the 2.35 Nobby Nic. Only thing is i dont think its gogin to clear many non 650b stays or fork crowns..but man