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  1. #51
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    I am an average rider. Rode 650s and hated it.. Depending on the trail I am much faster on a 26 or 29.
    If you are an "average rider", what difference does it make how fast you ride? For non-racers, riding is all about fun. Is the bike fun to ride is the only relevant question. If not, great: don't ride it & don't buy it.

    Those who seek speed and racing advice will consult a racer, not an "average rider." Ya think? .
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    If you are an "average rider", what difference does it make how fast you ride? For non-racers, riding is all about fun. Is the bike fun to ride is the only relevant question. If not, great: don't ride it & don't buy it.

    Those who seek speed and racing advice will consult a racer, not an "average rider." Ya think? .
    swap efficient for speed... Equals more enjoyment.

    As for wheel size acceptance I just don't see the point of the 650b. Either go with the 29 and all of its benefits or stay with the quickness of the 26. The 650 (for me) had the negatives of both.

  3. #53
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    You can spin this however you want, but 3-5 seconds over 3 minutes is 1.7~2.8%, which is huge.

    What does this mean for the non-racer? Well, I think we'll all agree that the fun factor is a function of velocity, among of other things.

    Let me put it this way, if you wanna talk about science: a 2.8% increase in velocity is a 5.7% increase in kinetic energy...

  4. #54
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    Or good planning?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneEyedHito View Post
    a late bloomer (meaning late at getting my act together) with no kids..........go figure!
    Wait,who did he tell you that?....

  5. #55
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post

    As for wheel size acceptance I just don't see the point of the 650b. Either go with the 29 and all of its benefits or stay with the quickness of the 26. The 650 (for me) had the negatives of both.
    That is a common reaction many people have to the tweener size, summarised as "worst of both worlds" or "why bother?"

    Many others have the opposite "best of both worlds" reaction, the most famous being Nino Schurter and his coach Thomas Frischknecht.

    To each his own, but rest assured 650b will not be just a passing fad. You may not like it, but enough do and it will be big in 2014. Look for surprising developments in DH racing, for example
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo5 View Post
    You can spin this however you want, but 3-5 seconds over 3 minutes is 1.7~2.8%, which is huge.

    What does this mean for the non-racer? Well, I think we'll all agree that the fun factor is a function of velocity, among of other things.

    Let me put it this way, if you wanna talk about science: a 2.8% increase in velocity is a 5.7% increase in kinetic energy...
    In that case a 29er is probably going to be even faster. Is that the only criteria?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrozCountry View Post
    In that case a 29er is probably going to be even faster. Is that the only criteria?
    Exactly

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrozCountry View Post
    In that case a 29er is probably going to be even faster. Is that the only criteria?
    What are you saying? How do you know it would be faster and, the only criteria for what?

    For all i know, any wheel size could be faster than any other. My point was that you shouldn't dismiss a couple of seconds over a couple of minutes. (Yes i know, this wasn't a rigorous experiment, in fact that's precisely what should be your main counter-argument, and definitely not that a few seconds are negligible... because if these were actual reproducible results, 650B would be a game changer.)

    Anyway..
    Last edited by voodoo5; 12-17-2012 at 01:43 AM.

  9. #59
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    All design decisions are a tradeoff. If it works for you, great but you can be sure someone won't like it. We all benefit from additional choice, more chance of getting closer to what works for your dimensions, abilities, preferences, and terrain. Bring on the dh and xc 27.5r's.

  10. #60
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    An interesting aspect of us converters is that we will have a different reference to 650b performance than someone that simply jumps onto a 650 not related to their own bike. Especially the case with the new, burly, slack models.
    '10 Marin MountVision 650b conversion

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by problematiks View Post
    Yes, if you were in a race.My point in the text you quoted being that average Joe Biker(i.e. most people) just rides for fun and doesn't race.

    @LB412: Yeah, including a 29er would be great, but the problem is you can get the Carbine in 26" or 650b guise only.But I guess a SC Tallboy LTc could be somewhat representative, since it at least uses very similar (same system, different company) suspension.

    Marko
    The new Spider Comp should fit the bill for comparison. Intense carbon 29'r with a 68 HA.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by doghead View Post
    Both my brother in law & myself have 26er's & 29er's, both never get ridden since we switched over to 650B over a year ago.
    We both went on & won our NorCal XC championships classes this season on 650b's.
    I had to add in 650's to my 2010 26 Spark, this turned it into a XC monster!
    It's much faster then the new 26 or 29er Sparks (ridden both).
    So Please save the BS about how great your wheel size is compared to the 27.5's,
    Scott won both the World XC championships & World Cup XC on 650b's, a "Size They Did NOT Even Sell!!" Because it Tested better then both 26 or 29 (Sizes they Sold), when run side by side with exactly the same setup!
    Can you describe how it was better? What situations? Terrain, Climb/Descent, Rocks, maneuverability?
    Joe
    2003 KHS Alite 4000 26" Hardtail - XC, All mountain, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  13. #63
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    Hito,

    I think folks need to LIGHTEN UP as is the case if most forums where people are so quick to condemn and criticize. Personally I thank you for the time and effort you put in doing these tests. While it may not be the perfect scientific test by others' standards it's very helpful IMO. I've got the 650B bug and rode a Scott 730 last weekend for the first time. I noticed a big difference right away switching back and forth between my SC Nomad. So thanks.

    Will

  14. #64
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    Just a thought. Seems like all this little test means is that Bike A is faster than Bike B. This doesn't necesarily have anything to do with the wheel size. In my case, I timed myself on 2 different bikes for the same course, and my hardtail was faster than my full suspension. Did my little test prove that all hardtails are faster than all full suspensions? No. It simply proved that Bike A was faster than Bike B.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by getagrip View Post
    Did my little test prove that all hardtails are faster than all full suspensions?

  16. #66
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  17. #67
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    It's pinkbike opinion - i supose everyone will have one after ridding back to back the 3 wheel sizes on the same trail.
    I for once did like the 29er experience (rode Stumpy FSR 29), but the extra effort to manual is something that makes me thinking about 275 or a 29er with short chainstays.


    Advantages
    One of the biggest advantage of 26´ rims, is tire selection.
    eg: CRC announces:

    378 Products for 26er
    51 Products for 29er
    Nothing on 275 (I know it exist tires )


    Geometries:

    - 26 geometry was teak and teak over years, and even today you see evolutions like the Zero from Mondraker.
    Evolution on 26 will be less visible and is in mature phase compared with 29er/275.
    - 29 will evolve (we can't forget, that what drives development is sales, and 29er are selling like hot cakes) and all the criticism will be solve with time and technical/ingenious solutions
    - 275 will evolve over time.


    It's small details that differentiate a good bike from a great bike.
    26´ being the "oldest wheel size" have more "minor" details polished.
    20years ago, no one, would belive that a trail bike would have 66º HA, 5´ to 6´ travel and weight in the region of 24/25lbs.


    ending...
    Are 275/29 better? For those who "invented" or used - I suppose yes.
    Will we see mtbs evolve to only 1 wheel size? hope not! Having a variety of wheel sizes, let's everyone choose the best for the intended use

    Time will tell and for now, nothing like having TIME (or more ACTUAL TIME) to enjoy present bikes (26/29/275).

  18. #68
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    How about slapping on a 27.5" front wheel on your 26" bike?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkul View Post
    It's pinkbike opinion - i supose everyone will have one after ridding back to back the 3 wheel sizes on the same trail.
    Yes, but its a good opinion. Based on riding the same bike with the same components and corrected geometry, on the same trails with multiple loops in the same week with three riders at different levels and even using a stopwatch. Not really scientific, but not as "unscientific" as this "study"

  20. #70
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    I designed and get full royalities for the 30 quadrillion tire and rim combination
    It's obviously the best, and if you'd like a cut, just write up a test and confirm that there is nothing better ... And always remember, it's not about what is best ... It is about what we can convince people is best
    If done properly, others will also write tests

    OP - Glad you're enjoying your bike(s) ... And could care less about what size/style/etcetera it might be.

    Side note:
    My neighbor's 3 year old kid loves his 12", and thinks his brothers 20" bike sucks

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    swap efficient for speed... Equals more enjoyment.

    As for wheel size acceptance I just don't see the point of the 650b. Either go with the 29 and all of its benefits or stay with the quickness of the 26. The 650 (for me) had the negatives of both.
    lol....

  22. #72
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    [QUOTE=socalscott;9977124]Well then, on average, I find the avg. size wheel averages out best for me on avg. trails. lol
    BTW, on avg, I ride avg. trails.
    I'm still trying to get my head around acceptance of all the shortcomings of the huge 29, whilst a modest increase in size over a kids tire draws mucho

    Sold my 26! That's how good I feel about my 29 LT.

  23. #73
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    Oh, and I loved that 26. Just found that it never made it out of the garage... And I had to pay for my wife's new Tallboy

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    It is about what we can convince people is best
    If done properly, others will also write tests
    100% agree and I add:
    On blind kingdom, it's not who sees that's the King... But who SAY's it sees!

    Only time will tell, but since we're in a world of "continuous" growth, today it's 650b/29 to convice people to buy new bikes, tomorrow 26 will be revamped.

    PS - After my experiment, I was almost convinced... but need mor€.... 29er feeling to be converted




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