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  1. #1
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    NOX Composites Rims

    Nox Composites
    https://www.facebook.com/NoxComposites

    Any one give these guys a try? Not sure about the rim being quite so wide, but really competitive weight and price, and the offset spoke bed is a nice touch. Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to build up a pair.
    Live fast, Die young, Leave a good looking corpse!

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgestone14 View Post
    Nox Composites
    https://www.facebook.com/NoxComposites

    Any one give these guys a try? Not sure about the rim being quite so wide, but really competitive weight and price, and the offset spoke bed is a nice touch. Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to build up a pair.
    I was thinking about using them but I couldn't find a trusted review for them online so I dropped the project. I would be very interested to see if anyone from here used them as well.

  4. #4
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    Just curious, is $459 each (rim only) a good price for carbon hoops these days?
    Hardrock 29er, Niner EMD9, Cannondale F29, Camber Expert, 650b Nickel all gone.
    2014 Giant Anthem 27.5 here.

  5. #5
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    That all depends on your perspective. That's more than double the price of the Light Bicycles rims, but half the price of an Enve. They seem to be taking the middle road, like Derby, and banking on the fact that people will pay a premium over the "order direct from China" rims for a product that is more thoroughly engineered and shipped & supported domestically. It's clear from all the data on their website that they understand the science behind what makes a good bike wheel work.... more than can be said for many who hang a shingle in this business.... so that leaves the questions of 1) Can they execute, and 2) will the market see value in their design/price.

    Personally, I like a lot of what they're doing with the design, but they've crossed my pain threshold on the price.... I bought Derby's when they were $279 each, and they're absolutely fantastic....(and wider than these).

    Mark my words, Bridgestone14 (good name, btw ), it's just a matter of time before all high end bikes, regardless of genre, will have carbon rims in MUCH wider sizes than what's the norm now. In a way, it's amazing it's taken this long for us to abandon the skinny cut-down rerolled road rims we all rode for so long...which is basically what they were....affordable carbon's making that possible.

    my .02

    MadSedan, thanks again for the CrossRoc hookup! L O V 'N I T!

  6. #6
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    I believe the biggest difference with these vs Light is that the spoke holes are molded and not drilled which should help with the strength, but also adds to the price. I have not seen any LB rims fail at the spoke holes to whether it is really necessary is up to you. Personally I would go Derby at this price point which I what I bought.

  7. #7
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    Are they molding the holes? Their own post in the thread linked above says "using the 3K weave to support drill holes".

  8. #8
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    Bacon is correct. I looked at NOX before ordering my hookless LBs and came to the conclusion (at least for me) the offset rim holes weren't really worth the price. I've built several on the old school bonty offset rims back in the day and while they were strong and built up very easily, so did my non-offset builds.

  9. #9
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    Hi guys,

    Our spoke holes are drilled. We've done significant spoke pull through testing to ensure that this area is strong (so strong that the spokes break before the nip pulls through). It's actually a common failure point for poorly made rims, mostly due to poor production techniques that allow too much variation in material thickness. The other big failure point is the bead lip, especially in AM applications, where the occasional rim strike is inevitable. Again, much engineering, modeling and testing has gone into our rims to make that area as strong as possible.

    We believe in wide rims, but also believe in light weight rims, and at some point the two become mutually exclusive. We feel that with current tire offerings in the 2.1 to 2.4 sizes, 23mm (internal) is ideal for XC and 27-28mm is ideal for AM. At these widths, we are able to make rims that meet our strength requirements while being on par with "lightweight" narrower alloy rims and we are stoked about that.

    We design our rims (and build our wheels) for maximum lateral stiffness, since we feel that weight and lateral stiffness are the primary reasons to use carbon fiber for a bicycle rim. With that in mind, optimization of lateral stiffness is our primary reason for going with an asymmetric design. With typical disc mtn hubs, our offset will give you 8-10% increase in net lateral stiffness. There are other benefits too (net tension is higher, less likely to come detensioned over time, etc. but that is all icing on the cake).

    When you talk about differences in rims, and why some cost more than others, you have to consider many factors. Since fiber is not isotropic, the layup (orientation) of each layer of fiber has significant impacts to the overall rim stiffness and strength. There is therefore a significant amount of engineering that goes into our layup pattern such that lateral stiffness, radial strength and impact resistance is maximized. Because we have a complicated layup pattern, it takes longer to make a rim (about 6.5 hours on average start to finish). You also have significant differences in material properties and the cost of those materials, i.e. compare T1000, T800 and T700 and you'll find a huge variation in price. Most companies won't tell you exactly what they use, and we consider it a trade secret as well, but I can tell you we use multiple materials in different areas of the rim to balance costs but add impact resistance and higher strength/modulus fibers where they are needed. The higher modulus fiber is quite expensive.

    Ok, I've rambled long enough. The AM-275 rims are just starting to ship, so you should see some reviews come up shortly! We'll be shipping demo wheels out to mags and other review sites soon too.
    Nox Composites
    Carbon Fiber Mountain Rims and Wheels

  10. #10
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    Kudos to you guys for participating in the forum, and explaining/supporting the design philosophy that goes into your product very well on your website. It will serve you well.

    I'm not in the carbon rim market again for the foreseeable future myself, but I'm recommending people who are to check you guys out.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxComposites View Post
    Hi guys,

    Our spoke holes are drilled. We've done significant spoke pull through testing to ensure that this area is strong (so strong that the spokes break before the nip pulls through). It's actually a common failure point for poorly made rims, mostly due to poor production techniques that allow too much variation in material thickness. The other big failure point is the bead lip, especially in AM applications, where the occasional rim strike is inevitable. Again, much engineering, modeling and testing has gone into our rims to make that area as strong as possible.

    We believe in wide rims, but also believe in light weight rims, and at some point the two become mutually exclusive. We feel that with current tire offerings in the 2.1 to 2.4 sizes, 23mm (internal) is ideal for XC and 27-28mm is ideal for AM. At these widths, we are able to make rims that meet our strength requirements while being on par with "lightweight" narrower alloy rims and we are stoked about that.

    We design our rims (and build our wheels) for maximum lateral stiffness, since we feel that weight and lateral stiffness are the primary reasons to use carbon fiber for a bicycle rim. With that in mind, optimization of lateral stiffness is our primary reason for going with an asymmetric design. With typical disc mtn hubs, our offset will give you 8-10% increase in net lateral stiffness. There are other benefits too (net tension is higher, less likely to come detensioned over time, etc. but that is all icing on the cake).

    When you talk about differences in rims, and why some cost more than others, you have to consider many factors. Since fiber is not isotropic, the layup (orientation) of each layer of fiber has significant impacts to the overall rim stiffness and strength. There is therefore a significant amount of engineering that goes into our layup pattern such that lateral stiffness, radial strength and impact resistance is maximized. Because we have a complicated layup pattern, it takes longer to make a rim (about 6.5 hours on average start to finish). You also have significant differences in material properties and the cost of those materials, i.e. compare T1000, T800 and T700 and you'll find a huge variation in price. Most companies won't tell you exactly what they use, and we consider it a trade secret as well, but I can tell you we use multiple materials in different areas of the rim to balance costs but add impact resistance and higher strength/modulus fibers where they are needed. The higher modulus fiber is quite expensive.

    Ok, I've rambled long enough. The AM-275 rims are just starting to ship, so you should see some reviews come up shortly! We'll be shipping demo wheels out to mags and other review sites soon too.
    So as far as labor goes, 6.5 hrs in a Chinese factory at $3 us tops =$19.50. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ers-make/?_r=0 These are higher tech workers so we'll go with a similar wage for the wheel factory. The "quite quite" expensive carbon fiber does not command a price difference of almost $300 over the LB rims.
    Looks like a lot of shake to be made in the offshore carbon rim game.

  12. #12
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    R&D costs have to be factored into the part cost of a rim. Many of the products that are direct from China are cheap because somebody else has paid for the R&D and they are "borrowing" this knowledge. Marketing and QC are part of that cost too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridingthebuff View Post
    So as far as labor goes, 6.5 hrs in a Chinese factory at $3 us tops =$19.50. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ers-make/?_r=0 These are higher tech workers so we'll go with a similar wage for the wheel factory. The "quite quite" expensive carbon fiber does not command a price difference of almost $300 over the LB rims.
    Looks like a lot of shake to be made in the offshore carbon rim game.
    Once you've actually run a company, produced a product, you might be able to grasp that there is a lot more to it than 6.5x$3
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridingthebuff View Post
    So as far as labor goes, 6.5 hrs in a Chinese factory at $3 us tops =$19.50. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ers-make/?_r=0 These are higher tech workers so we'll go with a similar wage for the wheel factory. The "quite quite" expensive carbon fiber does not command a price difference of almost $300 over the LB rims.
    Looks like a lot of shake to be made in the offshore carbon rim game.
    So by your logic, I guess you think a US made carbon rim should cost what, $50? Idiot. And by the way, last I checked T1000 is 10x more than T700. So it sure as hell does command a price difference. A T700 rim could have $50 worth of prepreg T700, while it would cost $500 using prepreg T1000.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by climr View Post
    So by your logic, I guess you think a US made carbon rim should cost what, $50? Idiot. And by the way, last I checked T1000 is 10x more than T700. So it sure as hell does command a price difference. A T700 rim could have $50 worth of prepreg T700, while it would cost $500 using prepreg T1000.
    Isn't it fun to read comments by the clueless on what something should cost?
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  16. #16
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    Yep.
    Every business I've been in has always looked like a money printing machine to clueless people on the outside...

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