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  1. #1
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    New S.Cruz Blur Carbon Will It fit 650b ???

    A bit 2 early to ask but anyone know if they were smart enough, and forward thinking enough to alow rear clearance for 650b ?
    http://www.santacruzmtb.com/news/ind...=1&NewsID=0073

    It would be on the radar for me if it does. Otherwise........no. Please no more 26" wheels.
    Otherwise Scott Spark been there done that. I will admit I like vpp. But, well u know.

  2. #2
    htj
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    The chainstays on the new blur are shorter then the old blur xc (422 mm, old was 429mm). So probably not :-/.

  3. #3
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by htj
    The chainstays on the new blur are shorter then the old blur xc (422 mm, old was 429mm). So probably not :-/.
    My guess is that it will not be 650b compatible, but the chainstay length would not necessarily be the determining factor. We have seen much longer chainstays that would not accept 650b wheels, and shorter ones that would.

    One of the advantages of a carbon frame is that it can be molded in such a way as to give much more clearance than the stay length would otherwise indicate. To put it another way, aluminum stays need to be much fatter (read less clearance) to provide the same stiffness that can be built into a thinner (read more clearance) carbon fiber stay. Because an aluminum chainstay is fatter, it would also likely need to be longer to achieve an adequate amount of clearance.


    Cheers,

    KP
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    Pacenti Cycle Design

  4. #4
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    Yea, I thought it looked a bit close back there. I did not think they would be forward thinking enough...I think they are playing catch up at this point.
    The bridge has major impact also. On the Blur XC they went straight bridge on swingarm with very little clearance.
    Kirk, for instance Spark has "listed" 16.6/421.6 rear chainstay vs ~16.9/429 for Moj. But Spark appears to have better 650b clearance on a more xcountry bike.
    Thanks everyone for comments.
    Sidebar: I wish we could come up with a better way to search for 650b compatible bikes and forks. If I do a search on mtbr it brings up the thread, but not the page the searched text is on so then you have to page thru. I guess it would be a whole boat load of work to compile all that info on a website. (Then, would manufacturers go after you for listing their bikes/forks 650b capable.)
    Last edited by ghawk; 01-23-2009 at 04:37 AM.

  5. #5
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    Anybody try the 650b on SC Blur xc carbon frame yet?

  6. #6
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    Confimed: it fits well. Test rig is a SM 09 Blur Xc c. Rims are ZTR 355:

    QuasiMoto: fits with no modification. At full bottom, the Quasi barely kisses the FD cable stop, and will knock your cable raincoat off. There is ample room for a NeoMoto 2.3, but you will need to shim the rear shock ~3-5mm (see Derby's posts). Fit all around is considerably better than a Mojo.

    Wifes bike, she loves the traction, tho the head angle is a wee bit slack for XC applications. Makes the Blur 1/2 a Tallboy.

    Enjoy.



  7. #7
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    yea the width is no problem, given the SC wide chainstays.

    The axle to tire height of the Quasi is listed on Shiggy's site at 344 for the Quasi and 352 for the Neo-Moto. So the Neo-moto ( at 352 minus 5 mm shock shim = 348mm, right? Therefore, it seems that a tire with a height of 348 would fit, am I correct? If this is the case, the new 650b Raching Ralph (listed height of 349) should fit, right? Have you actually tried the Neo Moto and shimming? Thank you for all your help!

  8. #8
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    I fudged the front Neo 2.3" in there using a rear QR & measured with calipers. It will be close at the centerline, but should fit really well otherwise. I would not hesitate to run it - it will work - but it WILL need a shock shim, as the cable stop & seat tube is MUCH too close for comfort.

    Racing Ralph should be no probelm, but again, shim the shock. Shimming is a really easy mod. I had to add 5mm of bottom bumper to the Minute Elite fork (a 100mm fork that had measured travel of 111mm!) and that was a minor pain, but shocks? Easy.

    Also remember that these are ZTR355 rims - 24mm wide. Shiggy's data generally measures with wider rims if I remember correctly (28mm) and a narrower rim will net smaller dimensions. My NeoMoto 2.3" on a ZTR355 measures R349-350mm with 30psi.

    About the only tire that will probably not work is the WTB Wolverine 2.2, which is freakishly tall at centerline.

    The 1/2 Tallboy (16 oz?, or Blur Xcb is going to be a really nice all-rounder for alot of folks. Good luck.

  9. #9
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    Yea,

    Shiggys dimensions are taken w/ a 26 mm rim, so the reported tire height should remain true w/ the Stans 355 (which I am running also). My hope is that no shock shim is required w/ the Racing Ralph based on my fuzzy math above. Do you think this is possible? I think the 650b conversion will help the ride of the SC blur as well, as in the present 26" configutation I find the ride a bit harsh (relative to my AM rigs).

  10. #10
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    My guess is that the Racing Ralph on a 355 will buzz your seat-tube at full bottom out (like G-out compressions). But then again, you could get lucky - depending upon how the manufacturing tolerances of each part stack with, or against you.

    I'd say go for it. Build the wheels, mount the rubber, let all the air out of your shock and jump on it in your garage. If the rear tire impacts the seat tube, FD cable stop, or maybe even your FD cable, you can easily shim the shock. The shock does not even come off the bike. You need some hardware store nylon washers & scissors - that's it.

    See this post:
    650b shock bottom-out shim for seat tube clearance

    I don't have a 650b Ralph or I'd try it. I kind of gave up on Ralphs as they turn into Skiddy McSkidderson after a few rides. IMO, the quasi is a better "fast" tire, and the Neo is just plain brilliant. For all but short track racing on buff dirt, we'll be running Neo's - the juice is definately worth the squeeze.

    I think nearly anyone with an eye for speed would like this conversion, other than possibly the slightly sluggish handling (69d head tube) and the simple fact that bigger wheels are flexier & require more oomph on the techy, up bits.

    Good luck!

  11. #11
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    Has anyone tried the 650b conversion w. the Rock Shox Monarch Shock which comes stock on the Blur? I just measured the exposed shaft on the Monarch at 42 mm at full extension vs. 35 mm on the Fox Rp23 (despite the same ETE measurement (6 3/8")?

    So this would tell me that the Monarch has a little less travel and may therefore eliminate the need to shim (such as is required for th RP23)?

  12. #12
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    Howdy, I'm brand new to the forum. Since I've converted a Blur to 650b's and had good luck with my rigs, I thought I'd put my 2 cents in... I had been running my '09 Blur carbon with 650b's since early May this year through mid October. I had a 2010 Fox F100 up front and did run the Monarch 4.2 for about 3 months before it crapped out on me.

    I replaced the Monarch with an rp23, and had no problems with either shcok. I like the rp23 better overall, it never leaked air at all. I had a little over 800 miles on the Blur with both shocks, before I sold the frameset on ebay recently to get a Ventana El Bastardo.

    After I converted my Blur to 650's back in may, I had a good friend that had an 09 Suprelight. In June I swapped my 07 Titus Motolite frameset for his Superlight frame and converted it to 650B's , running Fox '09 Talas up front and '11 rp23 in back and have about 600 miles on that rig. I'm running 2.1 Nevegals on both bikes and really love the 650b's wheel size.

  13. #13
    jrm
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    The 2.1 Neo

    Quote Originally Posted by redbarn
    My guess is that the Racing Ralph on a 355 will buzz your seat-tube at full bottom out (like G-out compressions). But then again, you could get lucky - depending upon how the manufacturing tolerances of each part stack with, or against you.

    I'd say go for it. Build the wheels, mount the rubber, let all the air out of your shock and jump on it in your garage. If the rear tire impacts the seat tube, FD cable stop, or maybe even your FD cable, you can easily shim the shock. The shock does not even come off the bike. You need some hardware store nylon washers & scissors - that's it.

    See this post:
    650b shock bottom-out shim for seat tube clearance

    I don't have a 650b Ralph or I'd try it. I kind of gave up on Ralphs as they turn into Skiddy McSkidderson after a few rides. IMO, the quasi is a better "fast" tire, and the Neo is just plain brilliant. For all but short track racing on buff dirt, we'll be running Neo's - the juice is definately worth the squeeze.

    I think nearly anyone with an eye for speed would like this conversion, other than possibly the slightly sluggish handling (69d head tube) and the simple fact that bigger wheels are flexier & require more oomph on the techy, up bits.

    Good luck!
    is a great alt btwn the quasi and the RR.
    Wreck the malls with cows on Harleys

  14. #14
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    SC Blur or Superlight for 650b - looking for feedback

    want to get feedback / ideas from you guys in this thread - I just set up a very old Superlight with 650b - really rides well - so I've 'got the bug' and trying to decide if I should go with a new Superlight or a Carbon Blur
    notes -
    I'm running 2x9 so no problems on front der spacing
    I'm currently running a quasimoto 2.1 on the rear, but not getting 'as much' traction as I would like (many of my trails have sketchy / slippery rocks / sand) so want to run a wtb 2.2 or something that will get better traction and fit in the rear of either of these frames
    Look forward to your replies
    p.s. I've tested this set up against some top quality 26ers and 29ers - there is something about the 650b wheel that is 'goldilocks' - even on stuff that I thought the 29er would role over 'better', I'm finding the 650 performs just as well, but at better pedal 'feel' (how to push through the pedal stroke to get the wheel rolling from slow pace up and over some rock fixture

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by franksmejk2
    want to get feedback / ideas from you guys in this thread - I just set up a very old Superlight with 650b - really rides well - so I've 'got the bug' and trying to decide if I should go with a new Superlight or a Carbon Blur
    notes -
    I'm running 2x9 so no problems on front der spacing
    I'm currently running a quasimoto 2.1 on the rear, but not getting 'as much' traction as I would like (many of my trails have sketchy / slippery rocks / sand) so want to run a wtb 2.2 or something that will get better traction and fit in the rear of either of these frames
    Look forward to your replies
    p.s. I've tested this set up against some top quality 26ers and 29ers - there is something about the 650b wheel that is 'goldilocks' - even on stuff that I thought the 29er would role over 'better', I'm finding the 650 performs just as well, but at better pedal 'feel' (how to push through the pedal stroke to get the wheel rolling from slow pace up and over some rock fixture
    The WTB 650bx2.2 Wolverine is very tall although only 2.2 inches wide, taller than a 2.3 Neo-moto, as tall as the 650bx2.35 Nevegal, and might have problems clearing the chain stay of either of your choices.

    From the pictures above of the Carbon Blur, possibly the 2.2 Wolverine could clear. A 2.3 Neo-moto should clear with no issues, and also clear the new Superlight except the seat tube at bottom travel might require limiting the shock's bottom travel with shims (which is easy to do, click this link).
    Last edited by derby; 12-06-2010 at 08:14 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The WTB 650bx2.2 Weirwolf is very tall although only 2.2 inches wide, taller than a 2.3 Neo-moto, as tall as the 650bx2.35 Nevegal, and might have problems clearing the chain stay of either of your choices.

    From the pictures above of the Carbon Blur, possibly the 2.2 Weirwolf could clear. A 2.3 Neo-moto should clear with no issues, and also clear the new Superlight except the seat tube at bottom travel might require limiting the shock's bottom travel with shims (which is easy to do, click this link).
    Are you confusing the Wolverine for the Weirwolf? I've never heard of a 650b Weirwolf before.

  17. #17
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    is a wolf a wolverine - revised

    yes wolverine - my bad I have a pair of weirwolfs on another bike

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel242
    Are you confusing the Wolverine for the Weirwolf? I've never heard of a 650b Weirwolf before.
    Yes, thanks for the correction.

  19. #19
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    Cool thread - just picked up a set of 650b Blunt/XT wheels for a song, and was going to bung them on my SC Blur Classic front/LT rear hacker. There's a Blur Carbon not doing much in the corner of the shed, though, so I might give that a crack, too.
    Cheers,

    Robbo

    Eat my shorts, build a bridge and get over it - Devil

  20. #20
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    Robbo - please tet your wheels on your blur carbon

    Would be great if you would try your wheels on your carbon blur - that would directly answer 'half my question'

    Also - what tires do you have?
    thanks Frank

  21. #21
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    Update

    Hey - sorry, it's taken a while to post this...

    Ran my Blunt/XT 650b wheelset on my L Carbon Blur first-gen for a couple of laps of a recent 24h race here in Oz (the Mont, for those playing along at home). I'm running a Quasi Moto 2.1 on the rear and a Nevegal 2.1 on the front. 100mm rear travel and 120mm front.

    Verdict? Undecided... Tyre traction is terrific, and the bike really got a roll on in swoopy terrain. Ultimately I swapped back to my 26ers because I wasn't comfortable with the steering feeling in the tighter sections of the trail. The front end was much slower to respond to smaller inputs, and while it wasn't stalling out or flopping over, it just felt less intuitive to ride the bike with the big wheels.

    Thinking further about it, though, I'll try the set-up again after reducing my fork travel to 100mm and maybe easing up on the compression damping a bit, with the view to racing a 50km event that features a lot of fire road and open techy stuff in a couple of months. I do love their speed!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New S.Cruz Blur Carbon Will It fit 650b ???-208288_212551592088859_100000020586920_843101_8105620_n.jpg  

    Cheers,

    Robbo

    Eat my shorts, build a bridge and get over it - Devil

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo
    Hey - sorry, it's taken a while to post this...

    Ran my Blunt/XT 650b wheelset on my L Carbon Blur first-gen for a couple of laps of a recent 24h race here in Oz (the Mont, for those playing along at home). I'm running a Quasi Moto 2.1 on the rear and a Nevegal 2.1 on the front. 100mm rear travel and 120mm front.

    Verdict? Undecided... Tyre traction is terrific, and the bike really got a roll on in swoopy terrain. Ultimately I swapped back to my 26ers because I wasn't comfortable with the steering feeling in the tighter sections of the trail. The front end was much slower to respond to smaller inputs, and while it wasn't stalling out or flopping over, it just felt less intuitive to ride the bike with the big wheels.

    Thinking further about it, though, I'll try the set-up again after reducing my fork travel to 100mm and maybe easing up on the compression damping a bit, with the view to racing a 50km event that features a lot of fire road and open techy stuff in a couple of months. I do love their speed!
    I had a similar feeling the first time I tried 650b on the Mojo. Eventually, what won me over was dialing in the new setup, learning not to obsess about what it wasn't, and enjoying it for what it was.

    Part of what you'll need to get used to is the higher center of gravity. Dropping the fork so your HA isn't slacked out should help the steering speed, and a little bit of decisive countersteering when you start a turn should help get it tipped in better.

    and yes... Quasi-Motos are stupid-fast

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel242
    I had a similar feeling the first time I tried 650b on the Mojo. Eventually, what won me over was dialing in the new setup, learning not to obsess about what it wasn't, and enjoying it for what it was.

    Part of what you'll need to get used to is the higher center of gravity. Dropping the fork so your HA isn't slacked out should help the steering speed, and a little bit of decisive countersteering when you start a turn should help get it tipped in better.

    and yes... Quasi-Motos are stupid-fast
    Yeah, definitely needed to give the bars some extra oomph to negotiate the tighter stuff, but I felt it wanted to fall off the camber of the trails I was riding from the front; I couldn't get the front to settle into a groove.

    It's definitely something to work on. I tried them in my Blur Classic/LT hybrid - wouldn't fit the LT rear end by a factor of lots. I've also got an old Spot ht that needs a makeover, and the 650s fit beautifully on it. Maybe I need a second pair...
    Cheers,

    Robbo

    Eat my shorts, build a bridge and get over it - Devil

  24. #24
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    XC with the 650's. Awesome! (for where I ride).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New S.Cruz Blur Carbon Will It fit 650b ???-blurxc650.jpg  

    Last edited by Purs; 05-15-2011 at 07:01 AM.
    2010 SC Blur XCc

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purs
    XC with the 650's. Awesome.
    Do you have any issues with tire run on the the seatpost or f. derailleur cable? Did you need to shim the shock? Are your running the 2.3 neomotos?

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