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Thread: Marketing wars

  1. #1
    dwt
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    Marketing wars

    What is the "ultimate trail bike"? Jamis B2 pro, Turner Burner 650b, Ventana Zeus, Norco Sight 650b?

    Giant says 29'er
    Video: Giant Teases New 29er “Ultimate Trail Bike” - Bike Rumor

    But no thru axles front or rear. Hmmm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    But no thru axles front or rear. Hmmm...
    Thereís a front thru axle in the video and there will be on production bikes too.

    Needs one for the back though, along with a single piece rocker and whatever else they can stiffen it up with.

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    In order to get "ultimate" trail or AM bike cred, the bigger than 26" wheels have to get podiums in Enduros

    Has anyone heard of bigger than 26" doing well in Enduros so far this season?
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    ^^

    LOL...I was just going to post that!

    ...here's another pic, from Adam Craig's blog:



    ...and here the words direct from Adam's blog:

    "I had the extra layer of advantage/uncertainty/pressure that came with riding this sweet new bike Iíve been working on for nearly a year with Giant for the first time in public. It has big wheels, biggish shocks and does great wheelies and skids. Plus, itís the fastest color other than white. Black. Seemed like a good choice for racing on the good parts, but you know how it goes, if you win itís because of the bike, if you lose, well, that bike sucks.

    I won. By a decent margin (luckily, because a rookie mistake involving basic bike maintenance starting stage 4 nearly cost me the farm.) Whew, the bike IS good. "


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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    ^^

    LOL...I was just going to post that!

    ...here's another pic, from Adam Craig's blog:



    ...and here the words direct from Adam's blog:

    "I had the extra layer of advantage/uncertainty/pressure that came with riding this sweet new bike Iíve been working on for nearly a year with Giant for the first time in public. It has big wheels, biggish shocks and does great wheelies and skids. Plus, itís the fastest color other than white. Black. Seemed like a good choice for racing on the good parts, but you know how it goes, if you win itís because of the bike, if you lose, well, that bike sucks.

    I won. By a decent margin (luckily, because a rookie mistake involving basic bike maintenance starting stage 4 nearly cost me the farm.) Whew, the bike IS good. "
    Looks like 1st battle in marketing war for trail/AM goes to 29",counter intuitively
    to 27.5" fans
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    Kelli Emmett won in Ashland on 29" wheels as well. I do think at the upper levels, the pedalling advantages of lighter larger wheels overtake the handling advantages of smaller wheels. Same goes fur running racing ralphs versus minions. You just have to be good enough to handle them. Adam Craig is that good.

    This is not a bad thing for 650b though. I think a 120mm to 140mm super light 650b will be optimal for most advanced super-d and enduro racers.

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    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    This is not a bad thing for 650b though. I think a 120mm to 140mm super light 650b will be optimal for most advanced super-d and enduro racers.
    Exactly what Kirk P thought when he started this movemnt 650b ideal for
    5" & 6" travel. Intuitively you would predict popularity with trail & AM riders, and success in Enduro races.

    Instead, unpredictably, we saw Nino Schurter winning WC XC races on sb650b hardtail for a sponsor (Scott) which is not even planning to sell the bike in 2013.

    It would be nice to see some companies which will be selling 650b in 2013, such Intense, Ibis,, Norco, Ventana, Turner, Jamis and KHS ,sponsoring Enduro riders to get podiums in events where trail &AM bikes are used.

    Otherwise 29" could win the marketing war and between Giant, Trek, Spec, and Santa Cruz squeeze out 27.5".

    Wouldn't it be cool if Ibis and X Fusion could get Lopes to compete on a 650b HD.
    That would be some marketing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Wouldn't it be cool if Ibis and X Fusion could get Lopes to compete on a 650b HD.
    That would be some marketing.
    Yup. At least, he mentions 650b wheels in his skill-building book.

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    ... and if we just ...

    DWT....Nickel, Butcher, TRc, Blur LT, Heckler are 650B ready...and the Nomad only needs 4mm swingarm ext. and a 142 thru ....SantaCruz is closer than they realize! If the industry would shift the focus to SAG NET BB height, rather than Static unlaoded BB height, we could start talking some sense.

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    HERE'S another one for the FB fans...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheous View Post
    DWT....Nickel, Butcher, TRc, Blur LT, Heckler are 650B ready...and the Nomad only needs 4mm swingarm ext. and a 142 thru ....SantaCruz is closer than they realize! If the industry would shift the focus to SAG NET BB height, rather than Static unlaoded BB height, we could start talking some sense.
    Those are all great bikes, especially with 650b. However most people are pretty averse to converting a bike. They want something they can just walk in the store, plop down their money, and ride out on. I don't think a sponsored pro would be running a conversion either (though I do seem to remember some Cannondale team riders?). But overall I don't think the "Ultimate" trail bike can be a conversion. It would need to be a purpose built machine so as to have no "compromises".
    2012 On One Whippet 650b
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    blur ltc is no good? damn i was lookin into that frame to make it 650b
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    ^^

    LOL...I was just going to post that!

    ...here's another pic, from Adam Craig's blog:



    ...and here the words direct from Adam's blog:

    "I had the extra layer of advantage/uncertainty/pressure that came with riding this sweet new bike Iíve been working on for nearly a year with Giant for the first time in public. It has big wheels, biggish shocks and does great wheelies and skids. Plus, itís the fastest color other than white. Black. Seemed like a good choice for racing on the good parts, but you know how it goes, if you win itís because of the bike, if you lose, well, that bike sucks.

    I won. By a decent margin (luckily, because a rookie mistake involving basic bike maintenance starting stage 4 nearly cost me the farm.) Whew, the bike IS good. "
    Who is the guy with the big moustache? he looks like Jacques Devi from France, but it can't be him...



    source: Bikekulture-mag.com through google

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    Quote Originally Posted by wedge View Post
    Who is the guy with the big moustache? he looks like Jacques Devi from France, but it can't be him...


    Carl Decker


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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    Those are all great bikes, especially with 650b. However most people are pretty averse to converting a bike. They want something they can just walk in the store, plop down their money, and ride out on. I don't think a sponsored pro would be running a conversion either (though I do seem to remember some Cannondale team riders?). But overall I don't think the "Ultimate" trail bike can be a conversion. It would need to be a purpose built machine so as to have no "compromises".
    +1. I have both a conversion and a purpose built, and prefer the latter

    As far as marketing, the word "Ulitmate" itself is simply marketing and misleading . As has been said many times, there are three wheel sizes to choose from and for any given rider it could any of the three with the right geometry and travel.

    That said , if one size consistently bests the others in Endoro races, as 29" does in XC races (not counting Nino) then there may be objective grounds to call that size the "ultimate" trail/ AM bike
    Last edited by dwt; 07-04-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Looks like 1st battle in marketing war for trail/AM goes to 29",counter intuitively
    to 27.5" fans
    Not exacty, or at least i don't think it is. Let's be honest, Enduro racing is still a very new concept and there are only a couple of really know races who are fairly know and well estabilished, being Megavalanche ( Enduro or Mini Downhill, i'll let you decide ) and the Super Enduro Series in Italy.

    The prevalling wheel size is still the 26'' on those and until either 650b or 29'' inch wheels win on those, the jury is still out. The Enduro scene is still pretty new and scattered, i even know/went to a couple of Enduro races ( and not small ) where there were long travel hardtails ( i ride one myself ! ) reaching podiums but i don't think many people will switch to HT for racing anytime soon.

    Considering what i seen in Europe where the Enduro racing is bigger than in the US, there is still much "confusion" and there isn't a consensus regarding what is a proper Enduro bike.

    Every race i enter/see there are high number of different bikes, from FS to HT's, 5'' inch traill bikes to full fledged FR/DH 7'' bikes. It's still way too soon to use Enduro races as some kind of benchmark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsilva View Post
    Not exacty, or at least i don't think it is. Let's be honest, Enduro racing is still a very new concept and there are only a couple of really know races who are fairly know and well estabilished, being Megavalanche ( Enduro or Mini Downhill, i'll let you decide ) and the Super Enduro Series in Italy.

    The prevalling wheel size is still the 26'' on those and until either 650b or 29'' inch wheels win on those, the jury is still out. The Enduro scene is still pretty new and scattered, i even know/went to a couple of Enduro races ( and not small ) where there were long travel hardtails ( i ride one myself ! ) reaching podiums but i don't think many people will switch to HT for racing anytime soon.

    Considering what i seen in Europe where the Enduro racing is bigger than in the US, there is still much "confusion" and there isn't a consensus regarding what is a proper Enduro bike.

    Every race i enter/see there are high number of different bikes, from FS to HT's, 5'' inch traill bikes to full fledged FR/DH
    ' bikes. It's still way too soon to use Enduro races as some kind of benchmark.
    Very interesting, I wasn't aware.

    My racing days are in the past. I was picturing the Whole Enchilada Enduro in Moab this Sept. Having ridden that trail on a 4" XC bike, my thought was that a trail or AM 650b @ 30 lbs would be the right tool for a race on that trail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyRoots View Post
    blur ltc is no good? damn i was lookin into that frame to make it 650b
    LTc works fine with 650.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheous View Post
    LTc works fine with 650.
    It is ironic that some of the fittest bikes for conversion are of companies that poop on 650b in public (Santa Cruz, On One)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    It is ironic that some of the fittest bikes for conversion are of companies that poop on 650b in public (Santa Cruz, On One)...
    Yup, but remember they poo poo'd 29ers as well 4 years ago - now they have 6 of them on their website!

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