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  1. #1
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    Heckler vs. Remedy

    Hi, I cant decide between the Santa Cruz Heckler or the Trek Remedy 8. I have always been riding Treks and have never been disappointed. But I know that Santa Cruz is definatley not a cheap brand. My biggest issue is that the Heckler is $450 less and has 10mm of more fork and rear travel than the Remedy. But what about other components?

  2. #2
    just ride
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    Bronson R-AM kit: $3400.

  3. #3
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    The remedy has better brakes and front derailleur. The nice thing about the heckler though is it doesn't use a proprietary rear shock. It also uses a standard 73mm threaded bottom bracket. Also the heckler is a tried and true design seeing as Santa Cruz has been making it for 18 years.

    ^ I didn't even think of the bronson that is a good suggestion

  4. #4
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    The nice thing about the Remedy is that it uses a proprietary rear shock that was developed by Trek and Fox, and works amazingly well. Just amazing.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  5. #5
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    Ok thanks for the tips but what is the difference between the Bronson and Heckler

  6. #6
    No Clue Crew
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    Bronson: VPP suspension. Heckler: Single pivot.

    Between the two, I'd take the Trek, all day every day. Throw the Bronson into the mix and it wins.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Bronson: VPP suspension. Heckler: Single pivot.

    Between the two, I'd take the Trek, all day every day. Throw the Bronson into the mix and it wins.
    I love Trek also but the Heckler seems to have a better crankset and rear derailer while also having more travel. My only concern with the Heckler is the single pivot suspension and how it performs. Also it is of course $450 less

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpok92 View Post
    It also uses a standard 73mm threaded bottom bracket.
    The new Trek BB is designed around a 24mm spindle... so it's compatible with good 'ole, non PF30 cranks.

  9. #9
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    Whatever turns you on...

    ...however, I would not sweat the components that much or a few hundred bucks either way. Go out a demo a them both (Heckler & Remedy) if possible. They have a significantly different suspension feel. See which one you like and go for it.

    Now for my own biased opinion: (Bronson review included!!!)

    I am a long time Santa Cruz fan. I bought my first one around '99-00 a original Heckler (technically second version as it had disc brakes). I have since owned four more Santa Cruz bikes ('02 Bullit, '04 Heckler, '08 Nomad 1.0, '11 Butcher). They have all been great and my new bike will be a 27.5 Heckler. There is no coincidence that all of my bikes save the Nomad have been single pivots. Santa Cruz does them better than anyone. They have a very solid connected feel to the trail. More jeep-like rock crawler than cushy range rover to use an analogy. Simple, stupid tough and no bs. Simplicity takes true genius though.

    Conversely, multi-pivot bikes (Trek's ABP, VPP's, DW Link's etc.) provide a more nuanced ride that many prefer. I demoed a Bronson a couple of weeks and compared it back to back with my Butcher (a link driven single pivot). I preferred the feel of my Butcher, but the Bronson's 27.5 wheels and geometry were fantastic. I rode a Pivot Firebird 27.5 and had the same experience. If you need something more to lull you to sleep besides too much turkey here is an excerpt of my write up about my day riding the Bronson...

    "...the bike geometry and layout were not far off from my Butcher, but it had a little slacker front end and steeper seat angle. It had the same 50mm Thomson stem, too. The top tube length was nearly the same as I have fit perfectly on every medium Santa Cruz I have ever thrown a leg over. I have said this geometry would be THE geometry to have over a year ago when I rode a Kona Honzo with it. It is. It climbs very well, putting you in a great power position to spin up the hills and use less body English over trail obstacles. I out-climbed a cat aboard an XC 29'er hardtail (some kind of Salsa I think) up the steepest most technical portion of the trail. No shiz, man. Then when you head down, it's showtime. I mean, the Bronson allows you to rail and carve with abandon. You can sit back mow over (and off of) anything. The Van Michael trail or Area 51 as the old school types call it has some amazing berms to roost and the Bronson smoked down this stuff. The only things I did not dig about the ride was landing the bike off of bigger jumps. Fox suspension...meh. It feels flimsy. I noticed this actually as well on fast choppy stuff too where it became somewhat of a handful. Maybe I could have fiddled with the settings more, but I notice this on every Fox-equipped bike I ride. I have also heard similar feedback from other riders regarding Fox. For comparison sake, I run a Rock Shox Lyrik Solo Air and Cane Creek DB Air. I will do the same with with my next rig, but with a new Rock Shox Pike 160. Oh and those Enve wheels, yeah they are seriously badass, but $2500 worth of badass? I don't know. All in all it is pretty kickass and with a few modifications I would be psyched to be aboard a Bronson carbon.

    Now, I must mention an insider tip that I alluded to earlier. Bama (SC tech) told me to pretend that the Bronson was a Heckler as they are matched in layout. You would think as did I that I could just get a aluminum Bronson and all would be well. However, one of the reasons they did not bring out any of the aluminum counterparts to the complete line up of carbon bikes they had today (Bronson C, 5010 C, Tallboy/Tallboy LT C, Juliana C) is that the aluminum models just don't feel as nice. The problem with an aluminum bike and the VPP suspension is that strain on the linkage wears the bearings out faster than with their carbon brethren. Carbon is far stiffer and does not allow the fatigue to occur that occurs in all of the welded areas around the aluminum bottom bracket. On single pivot bikes, this is not a big deal. Hillbilly engineering with more aluminum and less moving parts can make aluminum single-pivots stay solid longer. This was one of the reasons the Butcher and Nickel were dropped. They had more moving parts that gave a slightly better ride, yet more crap to wear out. It was hard to justify the increased expense to potential buyers as well. Now, don't misunderstand me as I am not saying that aluminum VPP (or multi-link) bikes are no good. On the contrary, my Butcher has ruled and I am sure an aluminum Bronson would rip too. However, that noticeable increase in stiffness around the bottom bracket feels significantly better and will be more durable. Do I think an additional $750 is worth it for 1.5 lbs of weight savings and more durability. Yes, in fact I do. If I had my heart set on a Bronson I would pony up (pun intended) for the carbon one.

    That said, I like simple machines and simplicity in general. Today sold me on 27.5 bikes and my next rig will be the new Heckler. It is a fraction of the cost of the Bronson C. I like the suspension (I always have). The Heckler with a Cane Creek DB Air and it's geometry will be superlative."

    Bottom line, (like the top line) do whatever turns you on.
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  10. #10
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    As for the heckler single pivot there is no reason to be concerned my wife owns the 2014 heckler and i have ridden it and pedaled it up hills, and it pedaled fine on the longer smoother climbs, you can use the climb setting on the rear shock. With the rear shock on climb the back end is solid. I am unable to compress it at all. My wife said compared to her hardtail it doesn't climb any worse. I do believe that most of the time my wife leaves the rear shock in trail unless she is doing any sort of extended downhill run. She even climbs with it in trail. I am also going to purchase a Bronson here soon. One of the reasons we ended up getting my wife the heckler is we like the simplicity of the rear suspension and the fact that santa cruz still sells the bearings and links for bikes that have been discontinued for many years and also they sell the tools you need to maintain the bikes.

  11. #11
    jrm
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    Demo one or the other before buying if you can. A seat of the pants trial of sorts will reveal the characteristic faults of each. After riding 2 generations of the heckler, it suffers from serious pedal input and rear end inactivity under braking due to its dated single pivot high chainstay suspension design. I think youd end up relying less on the shock with the suspension design of Remedy. And if already like trek bikes then its a no brainer.
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