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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyN View Post
    I've ridden the Nevegal 2.35 as front tire for some time in two bikes: a Blur LT and a On One 456. Although I did think that sidewalls were weak, I dared to use them as front tire. However, my experience has not been very good. I've cutted the sidewalls and I've suffered severe burping, specially when doing drops (small ones, max half a meter, not more). I could not recommend this tire to be ridden tubeless at all. Moreover, its grip is not very good when compared with true AM tires. I would say it is ok for trail ridind, but definitely not for AM.

    However, my experience with the Hans Dampf is just the oposit. Great AM tire.
    Without knowing which version of the tire you were running and on which rim with which tubeless system I really cannot comment on your issues with burping. I set up the 27.5x2.35 DTC version up tubeless for people all the time (most commonly on Flows, Pacenti, or American Classic) and nobody has had any issues with burping doing much bigger stuff (6-10ft) than what you have referenced. The cheap OEM version are a different tire with different casing and different rubber so I cannot speak to those. As far as grip is concerned, I am honestly quite surprised that you think the nevegal is lacking as it is a grip standard by which a lot of other tires are judged. In fact, if anything they are too grippy--resulting in poor rolling characteristics--which is why many people looks for tires like the dampf and nobby nic which offer similar grip but much better rolling and in the case of the NN lighter weight. For most of the riders around here, where the terrain is rocky, chunky, rooty, wet, and slimy (there is more root and rock than dirt on most trails) the Nevegal is the default tire people run.

    Personally I am a much bigger fan of both the Hans Dampf and Nobby Nic for a lot of reasons, but even so I gotta defend the Nevegal. It is a good all around performer that most people love; so when I hear about repeated burping off of stuff most riders wouldn't even consider a drop it is usually due to user error in setup.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    Without knowing which version of the tire you were running and on which rim with which tubeless system I really cannot comment on your issues with burping. I set up the 27.5x2.35 DTC version up tubeless for people all the time (most commonly on Flows, Pacenti, or American Classic) and nobody has had any issues with burping doing much bigger stuff (6-10ft) than what you have referenced. The cheap OEM version are a different tire with different casing and different rubber so I cannot speak to those. As far as grip is concerned, I am honestly quite surprised that you think the nevegal is lacking as it is a grip standard by which a lot of other tires are judged. In fact, if anything they are too grippy--resulting in poor rolling characteristics--which is why many people looks for tires like the dampf and nobby nic which offer similar grip but much better rolling and in the case of the NN lighter weight. For most of the riders around here, where the terrain is rocky, chunky, rooty, wet, and slimy (there is more root and rock than dirt on most trails) the Nevegal is the default tire people run.

    Personally I am a much bigger fan of both the Hans Dampf and Nobby Nic for a lot of reasons, but even so I gotta defend the Nevegal. It is a good all around performer that most people love; so when I hear about repeated burping off of stuff most riders wouldn't even consider a drop it is usually due to user error in setup.
    The only 650b 2.35 Nevegal available to buy is the non-tubeless DTC version, which is the one I have, bought at Jenson. The two rims in which I have used the tire are a 650b Flow and a 650b Pacenti TL28. I always run the fron tire at 26 psi to 28 psi.

    BTW, I've been setting up tubeless tires for years, and this is the only tire with which I have got burping problems. Believe me, I am no newbe on that matter. I have got these burps when falling slightly sideways after small drops and finding a root or rock on the way of the tire, which has happened to me several times. With the Hans Dampf all of this has stopped 100%.

    For me, having the same problem with the same tire and two different wheel and bike setups, and then stopping the problem when changing the tire means the tire is the problem.

    For the grip thing: I guess grip feeling is very personal, but IMHO the grip from a Nevegal and the grip from a Hans Dampf are day and night, specially when it comes to wet conditions but also to lateral grip, where the Nevegal is known to be just acceptable by many people. This is why they use the Steve Peat modification (cuttong out transition knobs to allow the tire to really bite laterally) to make it a slightly better tire. I have even done the modification myself and the tire is marginally better, but nowhere near the Hans Dampf and the Maxxis Minion which are my winners.

    I have even done the same trails with the Nevegal and then doing them again the next day with the Hans Dampf, cause I like to try things and build up my criteria. Boy! What a difference in grip!! Besides that, yes, the casing of Schwalbe tires plays in another leage. I love the way it rolls!

    Riders, riding style, conditions... everything plays its role, so its very difficult to talk on absolute basis here. I just tell my experience so others can judge by themselves.

  3. #78
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    Well, if the only tire you have ever had burping problems with is your particular nevegal, and your sample size is just your particular nevegal, I think you may have just gotten a bad tire. I have set up dozens of them with great success and would consider your experience to be an anomaly. I am not even a huge fan of the nevegal personally (doesn't roll fast and is kinda heavy) but I stock them based on user demand. People love them and I sell more nevegals (regardless of wheel size) than any other tire. That said, I just installed HD's on my rig and would have gotten NN's were they availible at the time. The 26x2.4 NN is freaking enormous and I am very curious to see how the 650b version looks in person.

    Also, I am curious why you are hating so hard on the nevegal now when just a few months ago you were posting about how they have been running "flawlessly" for you....tubeless and all.
    Last edited by apat13; 01-11-2013 at 12:02 PM.

  4. #79
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    I have used some 26 2.35 Stick-E Nevegals, with less but some burping and moderate grip and two 650b Nevegals both with bad burping problems when pushed hard laterally and weaker grip than the Stick-E ones.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    Also, I am curious why you are hating so hard on the nevegal now when just a few months ago you were posting about how they have been running "flawlessly" for you....tubeless and all.
    Because at that time it was like this. It was the wider tire available for 650b and my tires had not started burping. But some time after that I began to have cuts in the sides and burping problems. I guess it was when the sides got more use and weakened but I cannot be sure.

    After some time the HD become available and I also discovered how much grip I had been loosing by using the Nevegals.

  6. #81
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    BTW, now that you have your own HD tell us what you thobk when compared to the Nevegals!

  7. #82
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    One thing I forgot to consider as well is that the 26" nevegal uses a 60 tpi casing while the 650b uses a 120 tpi casing....so in theory the 26 should have a little "tougher" sidewall giving it better tear resistance but the 650b should have a more "supple" casing giving it better traction at low pressures. FWIW, WTB uses 120 tpi is all their tubeless tires, while maxxis only uses it in their lightweight race tires.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyN View Post
    BTW, now that you have your own HD tell us what you thobk when compared to the Nevegals!
    Haven't ridden the 650b version yet but I have done a fair amount of comparision of the 26" and 29" versions. Overall I prefer the Hans Dampf, mainly because it has more predictable driftability and rolls a little better. I always felt like nevegals were too grippy. They feel kid of slow to pedal (to me) and I could not break them free to drift with any consistancy (under hard cornering where I wanted to slide it seemed like the tire would hold on too tight then let go all of a sudden at extreme angle and slide out). The HD's feel a little faster pedaling (although not as fast a NN) but have a more predictable drift curve, by which I mean they gradually let go and let me power slide instead of holding on until the last minute then washing out.

    The one place I think the nevegal kicks the crap out of both the Nobby Nic and the Hans Dampf is in terms of durability. The trailstar compound wears really fast, heck, even the single durometer cheaper versions wore down really fast, whereas nevegals seem to outlast just about everything. I gave my friend a set of season old nevegals at the beginning of this season and he is still running them, while one of my buddy's is now on his second rear tire (HD) after getting about 3 months out of the first one.

  9. #84
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    this guy has them along with missions
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  10. #85
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    Agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    Without knowing which version of the tire you were running and on which rim with which tubeless system I really cannot comment on your issues with burping. I set up the 27.5x2.35 DTC version up tubeless for people all the time (most commonly on Flows, Pacenti, or American Classic) and nobody has had any issues with burping doing much bigger stuff (6-10ft) than what you have referenced. The cheap OEM version are a different tire with different casing and different rubber so I cannot speak to those. As far as grip is concerned, I am honestly quite surprised that you think the nevegal is lacking as it is a grip standard by which a lot of other tires are judged. In fact, if anything they are too grippy--resulting in poor rolling characteristics--which is why many people looks for tires like the dampf and nobby nic which offer similar grip but much better rolling and in the case of the NN lighter weight. For most of the riders around here, where the terrain is rocky, chunky, rooty, wet, and slimy (there is more root and rock than dirt on most trails) the Nevegal is the default tire people run.

    Personally I am a much bigger fan of both the Hans Dampf and Nobby Nic for a lot of reasons, but even so I gotta defend the Nevegal. It is a good all around performer that most people love; so when I hear about repeated burping off of stuff most riders wouldn't even consider a drop it is usually due to user error in setup.
    Kenda tire beads and Stans have traditionally mated extremely well, and the Nev in both 275 and 29 have worked perfectly for me. I burp and roll a lot of beads on a lot of tires, but never the Nev.

    Never tore a sidewall.

    If someone is getting poor grip out of a Nev something is wrong. Perhaps it is being run at too high a pressure. I run mine very low, and again, despite that, never burp or roll them. Maybe it is not the grippiest tire out there, but it is close.

  11. #86
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    SitHacka, can you take a picture of that Trail Taker from above (like you're standing over it)? I want to see the top profile of the tire- meaning, is it more of a rounded profile or is it flatter and wide?

    I have a pair of 2.2 Wolverines on my Blur LT right now and I'd like to put something wider on the front. I have plenty of room width-wise, and about 1/4-3/8" in height. The TT looks like the ticket.

  12. #87
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    Vee Rubber trail trackers... Is there a preferred rotation direction? I could not find a rotation marker on the sidewall.

    The central knobs have a blunt end and a sloped end. I mounted the trail tracker such that the blunt end faces forward at the top
    of the tire. All the pictures in the thread have it the other way.

    Thinking about it for a bit, for braking performance I should have it the other way around. Any reason to leave it the way it is?

  13. #88
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    Hmmm, kind of curious there is no rotation arrow.

    Anyway, at least on the Neo Moto 2.3's I have the sloped section faces forward with the tire rotated to the top position. Pretty sure it's to aid in better rolling transition and I would assume the same for the TT. Think I might flip it around.

    EDIT...Isn't the TT the Pacenti design? Is there something referencing Pacenti on the side of the tire as I thought someone mentioned that. Think I would mount it like the Neo Moto so the sloped section makes contact with the ground first as it rolls.
    Last edited by skidad; 02-22-2013 at 10:23 AM.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbense View Post
    Vee Rubber trail trackers... Is there a preferred rotation direction? I could not find a rotation marker on the sidewall.

    The central knobs have a blunt end and a sloped end. I mounted the trail tracker such that the blunt end faces forward at the top
    of the tire. All the pictures in the thread have it the other way.

    Thinking about it for a bit, for braking performance I should have it the other way around. Any reason to leave it the way it is?
    Funny, I've been thinking about this too. Because the TT's were the hardest tire to mount that I've ever handled, I took my front into a shop to have them set up tubeless. They mounted it with the sloping side of the tread facing backwards... which I thought was strange. However, after riding them a couple of times, I haven't noticed a decrease in speed or traction and they seem to work well.

    I noticed in this month's Bike mag that the new High Rollers are the same way- blunt end forward, slope side facing back.

  15. #90
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    For sure the HR2 should be mounted when looking from ontop the bike so that the ramped side is facing forward, this is how it was designed, helps with rolling resistance and then the squared off side provides the braking. I would imagine if your V Rubber tyre is of similar design it should also be mounted this way. Only time you run ramps at the back is to increase climbing traction on the rear, but your braking traction will suffer.

    A little FYI for Maxxis for sure and maybe a few other tyre manufacturers...the Maxxis logo is on both sides of the tyre, the tyre name is only on one side, which is the drive side.

    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Funny, I've been thinking about this too. Because the TT's were the hardest tire to mount that I've ever handled, I took my front into a shop to have them set up tubeless. They mounted it with the sloping side of the tread facing backwards... which I thought was strange. However, after riding them a couple of times, I haven't noticed a decrease in speed or traction and they seem to work well.

    I noticed in this month's Bike mag that the new High Rollers are the same way- blunt end forward, slope side facing back.
    Quote Originally Posted by bbense View Post
    Vee Rubber trail trackers... Is there a preferred rotation direction? I could not find a rotation marker on the sidewall.

    The central knobs have a blunt end and a sloped end. I mounted the trail tracker such that the blunt end faces forward at the top
    of the tire. All the pictures in the thread have it the other way.

    Thinking about it for a bit, for braking performance I should have it the other way around. Any reason to leave it the way it is?
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  16. #91
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    i have mounted mine in similar fashion as my rear neo-moto as it is similar design. ramped side facing forward. my trail taker says pacenti on one side too. i love this tire as front tire so far. havent tried it on rear yet.
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  17. #92
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    I mount the front so that the ramps hit the ground first. This gives the lowest rolling resistance, but more importantly, better braking.

    I mount the rear the other way, for better bite when climbing. It makes quite a difference.

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  18. #93
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    i think its the matter of preference which way to mount, but rolling resistance is more noticeable on rear tire.
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by g3rG View Post
    I mount the front so that the ramps hit the ground first. This gives the lowest rolling resistance, but more importantly, better braking.

    I mount the rear the other way, for better bite when climbing. It makes quite a difference.

    gerG
    Makes a lot of sense, I can't remember why I thought the other way was right... Maybe I just need more sleep.

  20. #95
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    Just to add something to the Nevagal Debate. I tried to run lighter non tubeless version of the Nevagal and had nothing but problems. Burping then a tear in the sidewall. they worked for only a few rides. I then moved on to the UST Version of the tire. HUGE improvement. It still burped once and a while but I'm 240lbs all geared up. tire lasted about two year's. It performed best once the center knobs wore out. Best grip, low rolling resistance, and cornered nicely. It wouldn' t hold tubeless anymore and about three weeks after having a tube in it I got this tumor and had to retire it. I would run 30-32 psi rear tubeless with it.

    Now I have 650B stuff and wouldn't even consider a nevagal. I have Hans Damp, Nobby Nic, and Racing Ralph. Rolling resistance is Great. Grip is top notch and cornering is predictable. The Ralphs However are not Snakeskin. I Ripped one open and will only use them for the smoother flowy trails. I have been running the Nic on the front, and Hans on the back. Loving that combo. I had the ralph on the rear and it was working very well until I tore it.

    The Nevagal's had their time in MTB History and People need to move on! There are better tires in the market now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattest 650b tire?-imag0141.jpg  


  21. #96
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    Re: Fattest 650b tire?

    Whenever I have a tire like that I mount it with sloped side fwd in front for better rolling & facing back in the rear for better grip on the climbs.
    No moss...

  22. #97
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    With almost no rubber left on the tire I am not surprised you had the casing blow out (honestly I am kind of amazed it didn't just explode). At 240 lbs I am also pretty surprised you got 2 years out of the tire considering most guys I know riding about 160-180 get at most a season out of a DTC before the tread is worn down and the performance greatly diminished.

    Regarding the nobby nics, I will add that I have had to warranty three of the 26x2.4" trailstar tires (all for different reasons) in the last month. Two were never even ridden (one had a tear in the casing right on the bead straight out of the box, another with a very 'wobbly' and uneven rubber lay) and the third was ridden maybe 30 miles before all the side nobs started tearing off at the base. Despite how much I love the NN's performance I am starting to worry about quality control on the latest batches.

    My 650b Hans Damps however are pretty nice. A little on the heavy side but HUGE and grippy and rolling pretty darn well. Too soon to tell in terms of durability but I expect they will have accelerated wear given how soft and sticky the trailstar rubber is. Oh well, if I wanted a tire that would last for years I wouldn't have purchased a soft compound! Can't have it all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracer650 View Post
    Just to add something to the Nevagal Debate. I tried to run lighter non tubeless version of the Nevagal and had nothing but problems. Burping then a tear in the sidewall. they worked for only a few rides. I then moved on to the UST Version of the tire. HUGE improvement. It still burped once and a while but I'm 240lbs all geared up. tire lasted about two year's. It performed best once the center knobs wore out. Best grip, low rolling resistance, and cornered nicely. It wouldn' t hold tubeless anymore and about three weeks after having a tube in it I got this tumor and had to retire it. I would run 30-32 psi rear tubeless with it.

    Now I have 650B stuff and wouldn't even consider a nevagal. I have Hans Damp, Nobby Nic, and Racing Ralph. Rolling resistance is Great. Grip is top notch and cornering is predictable. The Ralphs However are not Snakeskin. I Ripped one open and will only use them for the smoother flowy trails. I have been running the Nic on the front, and Hans on the back. Loving that combo. I had the ralph on the rear and it was working very well until I tore it.

    The Nevagal's had their time in MTB History and People need to move on! There are better tires in the market now.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw-13 View Post
    Whenever I have a tire like that I mount it with sloped side fwd in front for better rolling & facing back in the rear for better grip on the climbs.
    Interesting... I'm more concerned with traction in the front and rolling speed in the back.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu44 View Post
    Sounds like the same 2.4 Casing as the Vee Rubber Fluids and Flow in 2.4, see below pics for the Fluids. Ride report tomorrow Aus time.

    These measure in at 710mm in Height, and 61mm tread width.





    They mount up tubeless real nice and easy too, due to them being Sealant compatible.
    YO Stu, what happened to your review?!

    I'm very interested in how the Fluid and Flow turn out, as I'm building a rear Flow now to run a 650 Flow wheel set on my Session 88. How about some stats and what terrain your riding on. What do you think about them? Do you know where one can buy them online?

    Thanks!
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    It only lasted two years because I go back and forth between bikes. It probably should of exploded but for whatever reason it held tight.

    I always wanted to try that stans crow tire out. After riding the nevagals with only side nobs left I can see how a basically bald tire can still work well on a mtb. Too bad there is no 650B yet and they always seemed way to flimsy for my fat ass.

    Regarding wobbly rubber lays. I have mounted many Conti Trail Kings in the 26x2.4 Black Chili tubeless version. They pretty much all have a slightly uneven lay. My friends that run them don't mind. Their actually not to much smaller then a 650B Racing Ralph when mounted. I would also love to try that tire in a 650B. Might be good for a DH bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    With almost no rubber left on the tire I am not surprised you had the casing blow out (honestly I am kind of amazed it didn't just explode). At 240 lbs I am also pretty surprised you got 2 years out of the tire considering most guys I know riding about 160-180 get at most a season out of a DTC before the tread is worn down and the performance greatly diminished.

    Regarding the nobby nics, I will add that I have had to warranty three of the 26x2.4" trailstar tires (all for different reasons) in the last month. Two were never even ridden (one had a tear in the casing right on the bead straight out of the box, another with a very 'wobbly' and uneven rubber lay) and the third was ridden maybe 30 miles before all the side nobs started tearing off at the base. Despite how much I love the NN's performance I am starting to worry about quality control on the latest batches.

    My 650b Hans Damps however are pretty nice. A little on the heavy side but HUGE and grippy and rolling pretty darn well. Too soon to tell in terms of durability but I expect they will have accelerated wear given how soft and sticky the trailstar rubber is. Oh well, if I wanted a tire that would last for years I wouldn't have purchased a soft compound! Can't have it all

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