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  1. #1
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    ebay Jamis 650b or Spec. Camber pro 29

    I've narrowed my bike choice to a blem Specialized Camber pro 29 or the ebay New 2010 Jamis 650b. I will not be able to ride either one. My son lives in Phoenix, he's 6'1" 31 inseam. He currently doesnt ride and is 75lbs over weight. I will be using the bike some. I'm 55 and have been riding for 11 years. I weigh 160, 5'10" and race some.

    Anyone ride both of these bikes? Need help choosing. The cost of the B2 and Camber will be close.

  2. #2
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    No bad outcome on your choice. Flip a coin.

    mk

  3. #3
    The White Jeff W
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    I was considering a B1 or B2 until I saw the geo charts. The XL (21") only has a 24" ETT. Way too short for me. Id really have to stretch it out with a long stem/setback seatpost
    No moss...

  4. #4
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    Bigger wheels more comfort, smooths out the trail. Go 29er. More stable and confident. Smaller wheels are stuntonly.

  5. #5
    dwt
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    Great question, because it illustrates one of the issues in the 650b vs. 29'er "debate."

    Your prices are close and the two bikes weigh about the same. The differences are wheel size and shock travel. The camber is a 100mm xc bike and the B2 is a130mm trail bike.

    I personally opted for the B2 and am loving it. As a mtb'er for 20 years I have a philosophical problem with the concept of a 29 lb. XC bike. If I am going to lug the sucker up the hill I want it to be plush going down and over the rough stuff. Anybody who tells you the bigger wheels make up the travel difference is IMO stretching.

    Everybody knows the 29'er has better rollover but it doesn't justify the weight/travel equation for me. And the 650b size has plenty of rollover compared to the 26'ers I was used to.

    I say if you want an XC 29'er FS, spend your money on a light one- Tall Boy?

    If you want trail bike weight and travel, go for the B2.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtompilot View Post
    I've narrowed my bike choice to a blem Specialized Camber pro 29 or the ebay New 2010 Jamis 650b. I will not be able to ride either one. My son lives in Phoenix, he's 6'1" 31 inseam. He currently doesnt ride and is 75lbs over weight. I will be using the bike some. I'm 55 and have been riding for 11 years. I weigh 160, 5'10" and race some.

    Anyone ride both of these bikes? Need help choosing. The cost of the B2 and Camber will be close.
    I rode a 2011 B1 and a 2012 Ellsworth Evolution (FSR like Specialized). I rode the 650B first and noticed a difference right away. Lucky, the same dealer has Ellsworth Demo bikes, so I rode the 29er. I loved the momentum the 29er keeped, even more than the 650B.

    Also, on slow, steep, rooty climbs, the 29er didn't hang up as easy. Was an easy sell for me. I never thought I'd say that.

    I had my sons black skate board ramp out jumping the 29er to see how it handled, I was happy enough with it jumping and on the trail to buy a Specialized Stumpjumper Comp 29er.

    This is coming from an X-BMXer and someone that's always rode medium frames.
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Bigger wheels more comfort, smooths out the trail. Go 29er. More stable and confident. Smaller wheels are stuntonly.
    If I wanted smooth, I'd ride on the road.

    29ers are great for riders who lack stability and confidence.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    If I wanted smooth, I'd ride on the road.

    29ers are great for riders who lack stability and confidence.
    I'll have to disagree and say you're as bad a DC, just on the other end of the argument.
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I'll have to disagree and say you're as bad a DC, just on the other end of the argument.
    Really? I didn't realize I was advocating a specific wheel size for everyone, and all types of riding*.

    Are you disputing the premise that a lot of riders on 29ers choose them because they are easier to ride? That they "smooth things out"?

    To me, it all depends on what you are looking to get out of your riding and your riding style...then picking the right tool for the job.






    * except stunt riding

  10. #10
    artistic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Really? I didn't realize I was advocating a specific wheel size for everyone, and all types of riding*.

    Are you disputing the premise that a lot of riders on 29ers choose them because they are easier to ride? That they "smooth things out"?

    To me, it all depends on what you are looking to get out of your riding and your riding style...then picking the right tool for the job.






    * except stunt riding
    DC loves the attention; he is a sucker for punishment. It's a personality disorder and unfortunately those w/ the illness are very successful at getting their fix, at the expense of other's harmony and balance.
    It's not about the wheels; it's about the ecstasy of being scourned at, bullied and punished.
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  11. #11
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I rode a 2011 B1 and a 2012 Ellsworth Evolution (FSR like Specialized). I rode the 650B first and noticed a difference right away. Lucky, the same dealer has Ellsworth Demo bikes, so I rode the 29er. I loved the momentum the 29er keeped, even more than the 650B.

    Also, on slow, steep, rooty climbs, the 29er didn't hang up as easy. Was an easy sell for me. I never thought I'd say that.

    I had my sons black skate board ramp out jumping the 29er to see how it handled, I was happy enough with it jumping and on the trail to buy a Specialized Stumpjumper Comp 29er.

    This is coming from an X-BMXer and someone that's always rode medium frames.
    Very interesting conclusion given your background.

    My choice of the B2 came after riding a Niner Jet. I agree 100% that the 29'er excelled on the slow, steep, technical climbs. And also downhill in very steep, very rocky terrain. BUT a 28+ lbs XC bike with 80mm of rear travel is just a non starter for me. All the comfort of a hard tail with extra weight.

    The B2 with 130mm of travel front and rear weighs just about the same (closer to 29lbs) and the only thing it doesn't do as well is the slow steep technical climb. Downhill technical equal or better given the travel. Plus livelier and more maneuverable. Just an awesome toy!

    Since B2 price I got was way to good to turn down, my shopping stopped there.

    We'll see 2 or 3 years down the road the way things pan out. I envision either that 29 continues to improve and wipes everything else out; or 29 stops improving at the point of its inherent physical weight/travel limitations, while the XC racers start winning on lighter 650b's. Or even possibly the downhillers. Then the next wave rolls in.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Very interesting conclusion given your background.

    My choice of the B2 came after riding a Niner Jet. I agree 100% that the 29'er excelled on the slow, steep, technical climbs. And also downhill in very steep, very rocky terrain. BUT a 28+ lbs XC bike with 80mm of rear travel is just a non starter for me. All the comfort of a hard tail with extra weight.

    The B2 with 130mm of travel front and rear weighs just about the same (closer to 29lbs) and the only thing it doesn't do as well is the slow steep technical climb. Downhill technical equal or better given the travel. Plus livelier and more maneuverable. Just an awesome toy!

    Since B2 price I got was way to good to turn down, my shopping stopped there.

    We'll see 2 or 3 years down the road the way things pan out. I envision either that 29 continues to improve and wipes everything else out; or 29 stops improving at the point of its inherent physical weight/travel limitations, while the XC racers start winning on lighter 650b's. Or even possibly the downhillers. Then the next wave rolls in.
    Well to be fair, the Stumpy has 130mm travel and a medium frame was weighed in at 29 lbs, before converting to tubeless

    Trust me, after the 650B ride I was sold on the bigger wheel. I have to actually thank the shop, because he pushed me to try a 29er before deciding. I wanted to not like the 29er, even started the ride thinking this is a waste of time. It would have been cheaper for me to go 650B, but the 29er just wasn't as bad as many say.

    Bottom line, if my Felt had fit 650B in the rear I wouldn't have ever tried a 29er. So now I have a new Neo-Moto 2.3 I need to offload, that's how sure I was I was going 650B
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  13. #13
    wallyman
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    650b Diameter

    What is the outside diameter of a 650b with 2.1 or 2.3 tire ?

  14. #14
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallyman View Post
    What is the outside diameter of a 650b with 2.1 or 2.3 tire ?
    They're both 27.5". The 2.3 is wider not longer.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  15. #15
    dwt
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    The Stumpy Comp sounds very superior to the Jet. I would love to give it a ride. But I'm tapped out and set with my bikes for another couple of years.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for all the input.

    I bought the Camber Pro 29er. I was a little worried about the Jamis top tube length for one. After thinking about 650b vs. 29er specific parts and possible resale value, it seemed to me to favor the 29ers. I also get ten speed and a double crank.

    It sure helps to bang around idea's and thoughts on the forum.
    Last edited by jtompilot; 11-24-2011 at 07:24 AM.

  17. #17
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    29er wheels and ties

    Guys, Can this Jamis frame handle 29er wheels and tires?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Really? I didn't realize I was advocating a specific wheel size for everyone, and all types of riding*.
    * except stunt riding
    I've never advocated one wheelsize for all but two. I accept 36ers as well, so you can choose now. Know my mercy. Happy now? :P

    Now serious. I don't detest any rim size check Sheldon Brown site to see how many used to exist. Even 700A with 642mm, 700B 635mm and 28" 630mm. Why not to like them?
    That said if someone is downright lying about one size becoming the two distant sizes with all their benefits without any negatives (check most 650b-27,5" articles saying it is the next big thing) and preaches that he or she ditch 29ers and 26ers and say to all 29er riders they suck and lack skills and must choose 584mm rim to replace a 622mm, I'll be here.
    Thus ,according to 27,5er proponets ,there is no hidden difference in 38mm ,but magically there is happen to be much more difference in the first 25mm from 559-26". This is a serious strech od reality and no I'm not gonna ride a 2,3" 27,5" and compare it to 2,0" 29er tyre. If you compare the exact same tyres on three wheelszies taking into account all variables and compulsory pressure adjusting you'll understand that 38mm is more than just 25mm and that a 63mm being a difference from 26er to 29er is greater than a 25mm from a 26er to 27,5er and that 38mm is still bigger than 25mm. Stop spreading the marketing nonsense.

    I fancy kiiling the lame wheel cultism, yeah the cultism which surround the rim size 584mm, not the rim itself.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    or 29 stops improving at the point of its inherent physical weight/travel limitations, while the XC racers start winning on lighter 650b's. Or even possibly the downhillers. Then the next wave rolls in.
    Another Kirk Pacenti's fanboy? Fanatic!
    What limitations?
    There is an Intense 2951 with 203mm on the rear
    Why Not? Prototype Intense 2951 - Features - Vital MTB
    and Mike Curiak loving his PBJ in Whistler- videos
    Whistler 2011.
    Whistler, BC Bike Park 2009 on Vimeo
    Don't hate it because it's beautiful.
    29er do great in technical riding,
    29er-nose on Vimeo - let me translate for you as I know german. He is saying that even though his Liteville is very nimble to toss around he appreciated the stability and predictability of Niner wfo9 I may say you guys on kiddie wheel lack skills because you can't maneouvre a 29er.
    Wine Me Dine Me 29 Me! | NSMB.e.MAGAZINE - Freeride, Extreme and North Shore style Mountain Biking
    they fit smaller people a 5'0" Specialized woman which 152,4 cms even shorter than a Willow Koerber at 157cm
    Specialized Womens 29ers At Roc Dí Azure France | 29er Online

    You guys are deceiving us extolling the mathematically impossible advantages of your kiddie wheels. If you can't propell 29ers due to meager legs ( hi TNC ) it is your problem and keep it there.

  20. #20
    wallyman
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    650b Diameter

    Thanks for the update on the diameter of the 650b wheel and tire.


    Has anyone used a Kona Unit with a 650b in the rear ?

  21. #21
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Another Kirk Pacenti's fanboy? Fanatic!
    Does the word "irony" exist in your native language? Check the dictionary.

    What limitations?
    Not for your benefit, as you are nothing but a one-note troll with the worst rep. ever seen on mtbr, but for those who might actually be shopping for bikes:

    Bigger wheels, tires, forks and frames weigh more than smaller wheels, tires, forks and frames. DUH.

    Taller wheels and forks must be beefier than shorter ones in order to be stiff enough to support the rider. That adds to their weight.

    The length of possible fork and shock travel of a 29 inch wheel bike are limited by the optimum handle bar and bb heights for a bike.

    I'm not an engineer and that is about the extent of my knowledge. But these are facts, and while you have the right to your own opinion, you don't have the right to your own facts.

    There are plenty of possible scenarios in the next 2 or 3 years. One is that the 27.5 will fade into oblivion as 29 takes over. Another is that 27.5 will take off because it is lighter than 29, can be built with more travel, and rolls better than 26.

    We know what you think - but you have zero credibilty.

    The rest of us will simply wait and see.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Bigger wheels, tires, forks and frames weigh more than smaller wheels, tires, forks and frames. DUH.
    Taller wheels and forks must be beefier than shorter ones in order to be stiff enough to support the rider. That adds to their weight.
    Perfectly true and yet you want people to use 584mm rim instead of 559mm? Do you really want them to suffer?
    The length of possible fork and shock travel of a 29 inch wheel bike are limited by the optimum handle bar and bb heights for a bike.
    Just a like on a road bike the handle bars are not risers but dropper bars. I suggest an upsidesown riser bars= dropper bars for 29ers
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/up...rs-744348.html

    Elaborate on the bb thing? How is it limited on 29ers whereas it isn't on 27,5ers or 26ers?

    I'm not an engineer and that is about the extent of my knowledge. But these are facts, and while you have the right to your own opinion, you don't have the right to your own facts.
    I have a right to making it work and applying a new thing. I have a right to burst your 27,5 marvellous bubble with facts, which state that 29ers work for a plethora of riders.
    Would a road bike work with a 26er riser handle bars? They oughtn't to exist in your ideal world since they can''t use riser handlebars, which can be used by 27,5ers
    Road bikes use their own type handlebars, don't they?
    So why the heck 29ers shouldn't be capable of using their own specific handlebars with the -30 or -40 deg stems and grips below the headset?

    Another is that 27.5 will take off because it is lighter than 29, can be built with more travel, and rolls better than 26.
    Niner bikes designed a DH 29er with 250mm on the rear, why not? Where is the limitation? Intense 2951 has 203mm on the rear, so?
    27,5 does not roll well enough, just a little bit better because it is mere 25mm bigger and still 38mm smaller than a 29er and it is heavier than a 26. It rolls worse than a 29er. So why bother with it? Why taking a step backwards?
    You seem so narrow minded and tend to forget a plethora of things to your liking or desires. All negatives to 29ers are negatives to 27,5er from a 26er stanpoint, you know that right?

    Again, are you one of Pacenti's students?

    We know what you think - but you have zero credibilty.
    I prefer facts not credibility.
    Last edited by Davidcopperfield; 11-24-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  23. #23
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post

    I prefer facts not credibility.



    You would not know a "fact" unless you fabricated it. That is why you have zero credibility.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbiker3995 View Post
    Guys, Can this Jamis frame handle 29er wheels and tires?
    Perhaps we should call Jamis to get them make a bit more room for a 29er tyre. I guess they would sell much more of those with 29er wheels and appeal more to the general public. Just like what 27,5er guys like to demand from 26er frames.

  25. #25
    dwt
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    Again, are you one of Pacenti's students?.
    Unlike you, I actually ride bikes. A lot. Road and off-road. After actually riding the three wheel sizes (I don't include your 36" as a serious or viable alternative), let's say that I totally get what Kirk Pacenti is talking about. I don't suggest that he walks on water or that 650b is the be all and end all of wheel sizes. Nobody on this forum does because they are all grown ups with brains and common sense and understand that there are many different configurations to choose for many different applications.

    The only point is that it is a viable wheel size which I personally find substantially superior to 26". But I am a trail bike kind of rider and dont use or need 160mm of travel. I do not contend 27.5 is superior to 29. The jury for me is still out. But meanwhile I totally love my Jamis B2 which is one hell of a fun bike. I am a student of that.
    Last edited by dwt; 11-24-2011 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Format
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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