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  1. #1
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
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    Carbon Rush w/ZTR-355 650b wheel

    Just got through with the Stans 650b build for the front of the Rush.
    Will have to put a 10mm spacer into the Lefty tomorrow before I ride it.
    The tire diameter is 700mm and the HTA is 69.5 degrees. That with a 45mm rake brings the trail to 83mm. The front end feels very good. Not much different at all. The tire is visually a little bigger. The neo-moto looks to be a very high quality tire. An abolutely perfect front tire with its medium air volume and large directional knobbies. My tire has a mass of 750g.
    The BB height ended up being 13-3/16" which is perfect for me since I run little sag.
    My Rush had 150mm of rear travel and will have 100mm of front travel after the 10mm reduction

    The spokes and nipples are side specific. Silver brass and Sapim strong(single butted 13ga at the bend ->14ga) on the disc side - gold aluminum and DT aerolite on the right. The Lefty hub has a big difference in flange offset. All the spokes should be under very similar strain which means that they should have stretched the same amount under there respective tensions. The geometry of the wheel/hub was used to calculate this based on the offsets etc. I believe that a wheel built with spokes that are under equal strain makes for the highest stiffness to mass ratio. This wheel is very stiff and at 700g even, has a low inertia.
    The spoke length are 272mm and 276mm.

    How to seat the neo-moto on the Stans rim:
    1) After installing the yellow tape, put on the tire with a tube and inflate. Leave for a few minutes.
    2) Carefully remove one bead from the "tubeless seat" and remove the tube. Make sure you keep the opposite bead on the seat.
    3) Lay the wheel with the unseated bead up. Get a sponge or whatever with a bowl of very soapy water and put the soap suds between the tire bead and rim filling it in completely with suds.
    4) Turn the wheel over laying flat with the unseated bead facing down.
    5) Use a CO2 to seat the bead and pump the tire up to 40psi(no need to remove the valve core for inflation). Then let it sit for a few minutes.
    6) Deflate, remove the core out of the Stans valve, fill with sealant and pump up the tire again.

    The first race in the NM series is March 30 and I will be using this wheel/tire for it and most of the other events. The first race is a very rocky course with a lot of directional changes and short acceleration climbs and turns with a few longer climbs the longest one being 400feet in elev. change. This is def. not a roady course. Most people are stuck on light weight tires for racing so let us see how this one fairs. Let's just say - I am not worried
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    Last edited by yogiprophet; 03-14-2008 at 11:00 AM.

  2. #2
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    Lookin good. That's a slick looking bike right there. Give us a ride report ASAP.

  3. #3
    TNC
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    noMAD man
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    Good looking wheel build...sounds decently strong, too.

  4. #4
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. If you don't mind an inner width of 19mm, this wheel should hold up to some good abuse.
    This particular rim came to me slighlty bent at the weld. The guys at Stans think it may have been crushed under a big load during shipping. It was almost already built when I noticed it on the truing stand. It should be OK, but they said if it starts to fail they would ship me a new rim.

    I think a lot of the success of the 650b so far is due to the quality of the neo-moto. It is not your average tire. It is a little heavier than a typical one of this size would be, but the material is very well distributed and there is none wasted. Even as a racer, I personally would rather a tire be of high quality than light. This is not a place to skimp especially when you are riding on the crazy rocks we have here in southern NM.
    As far as the wheel diameter goes, I think it is right on for a full suspension bike or for anyone wanting to transform the front end of their bike.

  5. #5
    NoTubes.com
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    Looks good!
    Please do not use the forum PM or e-mail function for business related questions. I can be contacted through our website. Thanks!

    NoTubes.com

  6. #6
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
    Reputation: Kirk Pacenti's Avatar
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    Nice Job YP!

    Let's hear a detailed ride report!
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    PacentiCycleDesign

  7. #7
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
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    OK, here it is folks.
    Did several rides dialing in the bike. Went with a 10m longer stem with the same 20 degree rise - 130mm long now. Raised the seat a little. 30 psi in the rear and about 28psi in the front (I am 180 lbs)

    This bike is now officially a rocket ship. Don't think I will change a thing for a long while. the fit is perfect. Had to take off the SI stem which is quite a bit lighter than the one I put on, but fit is more important than weight as you will see.
    Did the first race of the season as mentioned in opening post. Results are posted here - Coyote Classic Results - NMORS #1 I am 40+ Expert #1
    Note Travis Brown was #2 Pro. We talked about 69ers. I had thought about the idea before I had heard of anyone doing it - then I saw his pic in a mag talking about pushing Trek towards the idea of producing a 69er bike. Man, his lap times were 5 min. faster than mine over 10 miles. Talk about a leap in speed.

    Anyway back to the race/ride report. The 650b neo-moto hung like a berm in every corner. I was very impressed. The wheel size is perfect. There was one turn after another. So many directional changes and the weight was not an issue at all. Momentum was conserved and the Stans wheel was superb. For a lighter person, a smaller tire would be better for a race bike at least. Not much longer to wait for that I hope for you guys. As far as I am concerend, the neo-moto is it period.

    I have one change to make in my first post. The DLR Lefty DOES NOT need a spacer. I let out the air and it has about 10mm of space. I was going off the ASSumption that my SL had 110mm of travel. It does not. It only has about 100mm of travel if that. So, the travel is the same as posted, but no need for a spacer. That should make it very accessable for anyony to try any 650b tire/wheel on their Cannondale Rush or Scalpel. The neo-moto makes such an awesome tubeless tire. Was very impressed.

    We have one hill climb race and that is the only one in which I will change out to the 26" wheel. Thanks Kirk

  8. #8
    I like to ride my bicycle
    Reputation: JohnŠ's Avatar
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    Sounds great, yogi. I have an 07 Rush and after reading your report I'm keen to try a 650b front wheel.

    What would be the case for or against going for 650b front AND rear wheels on a Rush? The extra bottom bracket clearance is certainly one plus.

    John

  9. #9
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    Not to get off topic...but what rear shock do you have?

  10. #10
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
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    The Rush would be better of with either a longer stroke shock, like I put on mine, or a 650b wheel in the rear also. I think the 650b in the front only with no other mods would not ride near as well.

    If you choose the bigger wheel route, you will have to remove the chainstay bridge (very easy to do) and use the smaller quasi-moto in the rear. You may be able to locate an older swingarm that does not have the bridge, or your swingarm may not have the bridge. I happened upon one on ebay and have not used it yet because mine rides so well the way it is (more on that). The reason I recommend using the bridgeless swingarm is the welds for the bridge really reduce tire clearance.

    I chose to put a longer shock to raise up the rear. The stock Fox is a 190mm eye to eye by 45mm stroke. The DT Swiss EX 200 I put on is 200mm by 55mm. It is an SPV shock, but you have to get a handlebar remote so that you can adjust it on the fly. It goes from super cush to very stiff (for out of the saddle) and the great thing about it over the Fox is that even when it is on the stiffest setting, it still absorbs bumps (unlike the Fox RP23). With the longer shock route, you have to file the swingarm quite a bit so it can fit - so it is not the best option in that regards. The Manitou Swinger X3 that I originally put on is a little bit shorter (about 1.5mm) so it is a much better fit. Still required filling, but not as much.

  11. #11
    I like to ride my bicycle
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    My Rush is a 2007 model so it has no chainstay bridge. I had a quick look at the rear wheel clearance tonight; the only thing that could get in the way is the front derailleur, but there is probably enough room.

    I wondered how you were able to fit a longer rear shock. There is not a lot of room between the seat tube and the swingarm. Filing the swingarm doesn't make me feel good!

  12. #12
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    It is good. Good looking wheel build strong..looks strong, too.

  13. #13
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hud's brother
    Filing the swingarm doesn't make me feel good!
    Don't do it.
    The only situation I would recommend doing the longer shock is if I was there to do it myself.

    The front derailleur can be a problem if you choose a large tire, but the quasi moto should fit just fine especially since you have the right swingarm. I would say go for it!

  14. #14
    ride more
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    do you have any more info on the rear shock, maybe some pics?

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